Comments on: Schwarzenegger says gay marriage ban is not the end

Comments on: Schwarzenegger says gay marriage ban is not the end http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/ PinkNews.co.uk Gay News (UK and world) from Pink News - all the gay news for the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered community in the UK and beyond- thegaynews from Pink News Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:21:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Bill Perdue http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-38120 Bill Perdue Sun, 16 Nov 2008 06:26:07 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-38120 Schwarzenegger is preparing for a US senate race. He’s term limited and can’t run in 2010. Boxer’s term will be up and Dianne Feinstein has already begun preparing for a gubernatorial race in 2010. To win he’ll have to move from the right to the center, which he’s been doing for the last two years. Dave’s attempt to comingle bigot cults like the Mormons and catholics with African Americans is counterfeit. There aren’t enough African American voters in California for them to have swung the vote and most of the hysteria about their vote is from one unlikely exit poll by CNN. Racists are claiming that African Americans, Caribbean Islanders and Africans are more homophobic than others and in the US there are hysterical outcries against “betrayal”. None of that is factual and there was no betrayal. The betrayal myth is meant to promote divide and rule tactics. It’s as flawed and as dangerous as the myth that Jew’s stabbed Germany in the back. The groups responsible for combating Prop 8 made no attempt take the fight into the African American, Latino, Asian and Pacific Islander communities until the last minute. The field was abandoned to cultists who mobilized their voters, the vast majority of whom were Euroamerican. Most of the strength and unity of the cultists was organized by Bush aide Karl Rove who used federal ‘faith based’ charitable funds to bribe cult leaders. These preachers and priests in turn supported Bush and helped him use same sex partnering as a wedge issue in elections. Prop 8 was defeated by Euroamericans christer cultists, not African Americans. NAACP leader and civil rights era hero Julian Bond and the California NAACP did what they could in California and Florida but they have their own agendas. They unequivocally support same sex partnering rights but it was up to the GLBT communities to defeat the cultists and our effort was flawed. Schwarzenegger is preparing for a US senate race. He’s term limited and can’t run in 2010. Boxer’s term will be up and Dianne Feinstein has already begun preparing for a gubernatorial race in 2010. To win he’ll have to move from the right to the center, which he’s been doing for the last two years.

Dave’s attempt to comingle bigot cults like the Mormons and catholics with African Americans is counterfeit. There aren’t enough African American voters in California for them to have swung the vote and most of the hysteria about their vote is from one unlikely exit poll by CNN. Racists are claiming that African Americans, Caribbean Islanders and Africans are more homophobic than others and in the US there are hysterical outcries against “betrayal”.

None of that is factual and there was no betrayal. The betrayal myth is meant to promote divide and rule tactics. It’s as flawed and as dangerous as the myth that Jew’s stabbed Germany in the back.

The groups responsible for combating Prop 8 made no attempt take the fight into the African American, Latino, Asian and Pacific Islander communities until the last minute. The field was abandoned to cultists who mobilized their voters, the vast majority of whom were Euroamerican. Most of the strength and unity of the cultists was organized by Bush aide Karl Rove who used federal ‘faith based’ charitable funds to bribe cult leaders. These preachers and priests in turn supported Bush and helped him use same sex partnering as a wedge issue in elections. Prop 8 was defeated by Euroamericans christer cultists, not African Americans.

NAACP leader and civil rights era hero Julian Bond and the California NAACP did what they could in California and Florida but they have their own agendas. They unequivocally support same sex partnering rights but it was up to the GLBT communities to defeat the cultists and our effort was flawed.

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]]> By: Dave http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37987 Dave Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:40:38 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37987 Chris - thank you for clarification. Personally, I believe no force exists (not Mormon, not Catholic, or even all black Americans in the US) that can stop two people being together if that is what they want. All the best. Dave. Chris – thank you for clarification.

Personally, I believe no force exists (not Mormon, not Catholic, or even all black Americans in the US) that can stop two people being together if that is what they want.

All the best.

Dave.

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]]> By: Mike http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37823 Mike Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:11:18 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37823 Agreed, must be his wife's good influence! As to the "Unholy" alliance between the Mormons and the RC what a farce!! The RC would have massacred the mormons if they had been around the time of the iNquisition; their views are so against RC teaching but there again....(!) Agreed, must be his wife's good influence! As to the "Unholy" alliance between the Mormons and the RC what a farce!! The RC would have massacred the mormons if they had been around the time of the iNquisition; their views are so against RC teaching but there again….(!)

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]]> By: Chris http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37785 Chris Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:39:04 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37785 Schwarzenegger's always been pretty gay friendly. (I don't recall him ever 'mocking' gays, unless you count the time he mocked Democrats in general as 'girly-men,' which I don't.) He vetoed gay-marriage legislation because an earlier ballot proposition showed a decisive majority of Californians opposed gay marriage, and it was politically dangerous for him to get too far ahead of the curve on such a hot-button issue. Now that the tide has turned and opinion is split down the middle, it's safe for him to stand up for what's right. Or, more cynically, he sees which way this is going and wants to cast his lot with the eventual winners. Schwarzenegger's always been pretty gay friendly. (I don't recall him ever 'mocking' gays, unless you count the time he mocked Democrats in general as 'girly-men,' which I don't.) He vetoed gay-marriage legislation because an earlier ballot proposition showed a decisive majority of Californians opposed gay marriage, and it was politically dangerous for him to get too far ahead of the curve on such a hot-button issue. Now that the tide has turned and opinion is split down the middle, it's safe for him to stand up for what's right. Or, more cynically, he sees which way this is going and wants to cast his lot with the eventual winners.

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]]> By: Robert, ex-pat Brit http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37767 Robert, ex-pat Brit Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:14:16 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37767 Flapjack, you can bet Maria Shriver played a pivotal role in girlie man's change of heart. She appeared on a talk show recently and admitted that she often has big disagreements in politics, she being the democrat of course. Arnold also sees the financial boom marriage equality brings, not just in California but from neighboring states whose gay couples could go to California to get married. This is just a setback, its not permanent. Separate but equal is a contradiction and as I've said in another post, separate inherently implies being apart which isn't equal. Calling marriage by another name is embracing segregation. I could accept civil unions or partnerships provided they were legislated as marriages but until they are, I will continue to support the one and only universal gold standard for all people everywhere, ergo marriage. Flapjack, you can bet Maria Shriver played a pivotal role in girlie man's change of heart. She appeared on a talk show recently and admitted that she often has big disagreements in politics, she being the democrat of course. Arnold also sees the financial boom marriage equality brings, not just in California but from neighboring states whose gay couples could go to California to get married. This is just a setback, its not permanent. Separate but equal is a contradiction and as I've said in another post, separate inherently implies being apart which isn't equal. Calling marriage by another name is embracing segregation. I could accept civil unions or partnerships provided they were legislated as marriages but until they are, I will continue to support the one and only universal gold standard for all people everywhere, ergo marriage.

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]]> By: Flapjack http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37758 Flapjack Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:48:30 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37758 It's good to see that Arnie seems to have come around to the LGBT cause, as I always had him down as a neo-con. I can only assume that's his wife's calming influence... great to see a married couple reaching across the political divide to come out in favour of gay rights. It's good to see that Arnie seems to have come around to the LGBT cause, as I always had him down as a neo-con. I can only assume that's his wife's calming influence… great to see a married couple reaching across the political divide to come out in favour of gay rights.

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]]> By: andy http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37751 andy Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:02:39 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37751 Well done to Arnie, He's a good ally to have on side, and maybe gay marriage will be back on the books in california again soon. guess the whole "marriage"/"civil parternship debate will just run and run and run. I know which side Zazou's on, but have to disagree, in europe we are not just sitting back and watching, most of us already have all the rights we need granted to us by our governments, regardless of the terminology used. So while we can comfortably sit back, atleast in countries like the UK, we are atleast sitting back and supporting! Well done to Arnie, He's a good ally to have on side, and maybe gay marriage will be back on the books in california again soon. guess the whole "marriage"/"civil parternship debate will just run and run and run. I know which side Zazou's on, but have to disagree, in europe we are not just sitting back and watching, most of us already have all the rights we need granted to us by our governments, regardless of the terminology used. So while we can comfortably sit back, atleast in countries like the UK, we are atleast sitting back and supporting!

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]]> By: Chris http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37738 Chris Tue, 11 Nov 2008 05:33:18 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37738 Dave - California's had civil partnerships, or 'domestic partnerships' as they're known there, since 1999 and will continue to have them after Prop 8. We've approached marriage equality in a typically American way here - piecemeal and haphazardly, one step back for every two steps forward (sigh). But to put things in perspective, upwards of a hundred million people now live in parts of the country that offer some form of recognition of same-sex relationships, whether it's domestic partnerships, civil unions, or marriage. "Is it any wonder the majority of illegal immigrants in UK are American. And they are most welcome to stay." Ooh, don't tempt me. Dave – California's had civil partnerships, or 'domestic partnerships' as they're known there, since 1999 and will continue to have them after Prop 8.

We've approached marriage equality in a typically American way here – piecemeal and haphazardly, one step back for every two steps forward (sigh). But to put things in perspective, upwards of a hundred million people now live in parts of the country that offer some form of recognition of same-sex relationships, whether it's domestic partnerships, civil unions, or marriage.

"Is it any wonder the majority of illegal immigrants in UK are American. And they are most welcome to stay."

Ooh, don't tempt me.

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]]> By: Dave http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37723 Dave Mon, 10 Nov 2008 21:25:55 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37723 I am a bit confused? Am confusing 'marriage' with 'civil partnerships'. Do civil partnership exists in Ca? In UK civil partnerships - defacto marriage - was approved by a free vote in Parliament, i.e. representing the supreme freewill of the Parliament. Tradition dictates no subsequent Parliament will challenge the supreme freewill of a previous Parliament. End of story. "We the people" is all very well, but it will never stop fox hunting in America; yet another UK free vote triumph. Is it any wonder the majority of illegal immigrants in UK are American. And they are most welcome to stay. All the best. Dave I am a bit confused?

Am confusing 'marriage' with 'civil partnerships'. Do civil partnership exists in Ca?

In UK civil partnerships – defacto marriage – was approved by a free vote in Parliament, i.e. representing the supreme freewill of the Parliament. Tradition dictates no subsequent Parliament will challenge the supreme freewill of a previous Parliament. End of story.

"We the people" is all very well, but it will never stop fox hunting in America; yet another UK free vote triumph.

Is it any wonder the majority of illegal immigrants in UK are American. And they are most welcome to stay.

All the best.

Dave

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]]> By: Del http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37722 Del Mon, 10 Nov 2008 21:21:11 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37722 The Governator vetoed equality twice, when passed by Cal Congress! Either way, the US Constitution trumps any state constitution! They can ban recognition, but they cannot ban love and marriage! We will overcome! The Governator vetoed equality twice, when passed by Cal Congress! Either way, the US Constitution trumps any state constitution! They can ban recognition, but they cannot ban love and marriage! We will overcome!

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]]> By: wossname http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37717 wossname Mon, 10 Nov 2008 20:52:13 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37717 Bully for Schwartzandeggtimer. I seem to remember him mocking the LGBT community when he first ran for office. How times change Bully for Schwartzandeggtimer. I seem to remember him mocking the LGBT community when he first ran for office. How times change

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]]> By: Ty http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37706 Ty Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:50:35 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37706 It's times like these that I really try to be accepting of blacks but then they pull this stunt. Blacks went through so much and then they gleefully discriminate against others? By that vote they are no longer 'previously-disadvantaged'. They are oppressors. Furiously frustrated is a mild way to put how I'm feeling. It's times like these that I really try to be accepting of blacks but then they pull this stunt. Blacks went through so much and then they gleefully discriminate against others? By that vote they are no longer 'previously-disadvantaged'. They are oppressors. Furiously frustrated is a mild way to put how I'm feeling.

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]]> By: Mary Flying Eagle Ray http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37699 Mary Flying Eagle Ray Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:14:35 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37699 Large numbers of blacks voted For prop,8,Such a Shame. Are they so unaware of their history?There was a time blacks were not allowed to marry,therefore, jumping the broom stick was their only way to a union. Not that long ago blacks were NOT Allowed to marry WHITES,STILL TODAY THERE ARE VAST AMOUNTS OF PEOPLE,and some churchs who do not agree with allowing black and white to marry.Such a shame to see blacks choose to look with distain on as lesbian and gays strive again and again for the freedom and equality that is our right.How soon some of you seem to forget the battles of those who came before you. Slavery? My Native American Indian Ancestors were also forced into slavery. I honor their pain as I try to keep an open heart and Spirit. What about you? Have you forgotten? Shame on you. Mary Flying Eagle Ray Large numbers of blacks voted For prop,8,Such a Shame. Are they
so unaware of their history?There was a time blacks were not
allowed to marry,therefore, jumping the broom stick was their
only way to a union. Not that long ago blacks were NOT Allowed to marry WHITES,STILL TODAY THERE ARE VAST AMOUNTS OF PEOPLE,and
some churchs who do not agree with allowing black and white to
marry.Such a shame to see blacks choose to look with distain on
as lesbian and gays strive again and again for the freedom and equality that is our right.How soon some of you seem to forget
the battles of those who came before you.
Slavery? My Native American Indian Ancestors were also forced
into slavery. I honor their pain as I try to keep an open heart and Spirit. What about you? Have you forgotten? Shame on you.
Mary Flying Eagle Ray

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]]> By: Adrian-T http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37697 Adrian-T Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:51:33 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37697 It was John Stuart Mill who said that 'the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilised community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others.' Does the state of california subscribe to the notion that individual liberty, and self determination, is an indispensible, fundamental right? It cannot be for government to penalise or exclude or inhobit those who choose to a live a lifestyle, which disadvantages no-one, regardless of whether it is the norm. The idea that the such choices should require the approval of anyone else, majority or not, is obscene. It was John Stuart Mill who said that 'the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilised community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others.'

Does the state of california subscribe to the notion that individual liberty, and self determination, is an indispensible, fundamental right? It cannot be for government to penalise or exclude or inhobit those who choose to a live a lifestyle, which disadvantages no-one, regardless of whether it is the norm. The idea that the such choices should require the approval of anyone else, majority or not, is obscene.

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]]> By: J Geetas http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37694 J Geetas Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:04:43 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37694 Catholics and Mormons - what strange bedfellows! Just shows you how far the "Christain Right" in America will go to justify their stance on denying "civil rights" to gay, lesbian and transgender citizens. Catholics and Mormons – what strange bedfellows! Just shows you how far the "Christain Right" in America will go to justify their stance on denying "civil rights" to gay, lesbian and transgender citizens.

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]]> By: zazou http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37690 zazou Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:40:59 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37690 Shwartzy is playing superstar again !!! Same sex marriage is just a question of time in the US and in Europe Until then americans are fighting like mad and here in europe we are watching like - JE they have guts - well done america Shwartzy is playing superstar again !!!
Same sex marriage is just a question of time in the US and in Europe
Until then americans are fighting like mad and here in europe we are watching like – JE they have guts – well done america

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]]> By: zazou http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37687 zazou Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:35:37 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37687 well - this can only happen in america !!! this same sex marriage is for sure the same debate as Mixed race marriage and it will pass in all states a way or another. BUT it is amazing that like mixed race marriage - most religions are fitting it like if there was nothing else to fight for in the world - they are hysterical about it and they dont eat fo days - they pray for hours ???????????? IT IS SICK in the highest degree it is blasphemy Please GOD and JESUS come and tell me yourselves what is your point of view - cos these ones are doing wrong in your name well – this can only happen in america !!!
this same sex marriage is for sure the same debate as Mixed race marriage and it will pass in all states a way or another.
BUT it is amazing that like mixed race marriage – most religions are fitting it like if there was nothing else to fight for in the world – they are hysterical about it and they dont eat fo days – they pray for hours ????????????
IT IS SICK in the highest degree it is blasphemy
Please GOD and JESUS come and tell me yourselves what is your point of view – cos these ones are doing wrong in your name

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]]> By: James Whale http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37683 James Whale Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:08:52 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37683 You're right - a year or two ago he publicly stated his belief that marriage should be defined as between a man and a woman. I find it encouraging both that he should have had a change of mind, and also that he's prepared to speak and vote in line with that change. You're right – a year or two ago he publicly stated his belief that marriage should be defined as between a man and a woman. I find it encouraging both that he should have had a change of mind, and also that he's prepared to speak and vote in line with that change.

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]]> By: Ursus262 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9534.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37678 Ursus262 Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:55:11 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9534#comment-37678 Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Schwarzenegger originally oppose gay marriage, that is to say, support the principles behind Proposition 8? I understand that he has traditionally been hostile to GLBT equality. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Schwarzenegger originally oppose gay marriage, that is to say, support the principles behind Proposition 8? I understand that he has traditionally been hostile to GLBT equality.

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