Comments on: Trans protest at Stonewall Awards faces feminist counter-demo http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/ PinkNews.co.uk Gay News (UK and world) from Pink News - all the gay news for the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered community in the UK and beyond- thegaynews from Pink News Thu, 26 Nov 2009 09:54:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Victim http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-43436 Victim Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:14:43 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-43436 Some would argue that lesbians are not really women.As a bisexual man I am in total solidarity with trans people. Some would argue that lesbians are not really women.As a bisexual man I am in total solidarity with trans people.

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]]> By: Josh http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37605 Josh Sat, 08 Nov 2008 22:53:48 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37605 i've read several of julie bindel's articles, and she sounds nothing but ignorant. she makes immature and ridiculous comments, such as 'shoving a banana down your levis doesnt make you a man', which is really fucking annoying. well done everyone for making the trans communities voices be heard, gutted i couldn't be there! i've read several of julie bindel's articles, and she sounds nothing but ignorant. she makes immature and ridiculous comments, such as 'shoving a banana down your levis doesnt make you a man', which is really fucking annoying. well done everyone for making the trans communities voices be heard, gutted i couldn't be there!

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]]> By: theotherhalf http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37538 theotherhalf Fri, 07 Nov 2008 23:57:35 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37538 Katie: Not all feminists, remember that, not all feminists... WBWOtypefeminists are as chauvinistic as any rapist. They're a disgrace to Feminism and 'Lesbian Feminists' are a disgrace to all Lesbian/ Lesbian Identifying people. Katie:

Not all feminists, remember that, not all feminists…

WBWOtypefeminists are as chauvinistic as any rapist. They're a disgrace to Feminism and 'Lesbian Feminists' are a disgrace to all Lesbian/ Lesbian Identifying people.

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]]> By: Katie http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37521 Katie Fri, 07 Nov 2008 20:37:04 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37521 I share a similarly revelatory experience about feminism as you, theotherhalf - disheartening; although nowhere near as serious. Not so long ago, I left a supportive comment about a post on a supposedly 'feminist' blog and its writer told me to "piss off". I'm sure that if I hadn't been openly trans, the blog owner/writer would have reacted towards me in a far less nasty, indeed much more positive way. After all, if that's how she reacts when I agree with her - I wonder what she would have done had I disagreed with her, or even said something mean?!!!! I had previously, and in retrospect naively, assumed that feminist opposition to the trans community was purely academic in nature. Nope. It does unfortunately appear some of them really do hate us. Oh well, I guess that makes them equal to the chauvinists - who'd also regard us in pretty much the same way. Same diff...? I share a similarly revelatory experience about feminism as you, theotherhalf – disheartening; although nowhere near as serious.

Not so long ago, I left a supportive comment about a post on a supposedly 'feminist' blog and its writer told me to "piss off". I'm sure that if I hadn't been openly trans, the blog owner/writer would have reacted towards me in a far less nasty, indeed much more positive way. After all, if that's how she reacts when I agree with her – I wonder what she would have done had I disagreed with her, or even said something mean?!!!!

I had previously, and in retrospect naively, assumed that feminist opposition to the trans community was purely academic in nature. Nope. It does unfortunately appear some of them really do hate us.

Oh well, I guess that makes them equal to the chauvinists – who'd also regard us in pretty much the same way. Same diff…?

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]]> By: theotherhalf http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37506 theotherhalf Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:01:25 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37506 I am a feminist. i have orginised Feminist events. I have raised money for Feminist Groups. i spent two weeks re-cataloging and indexing newspaper archives in a Women's libery (before I was barred from the Library as a man and therefore a potential rapist.) I am, as Miss B would see it, a Counter Revolutionary. She must have a whole drawer full of Pick Axe handles for Trannies. I am a feminist.

i have orginised Feminist events.

I have raised money for Feminist Groups.

i spent two weeks re-cataloging and indexing newspaper archives in a Women's libery (before I was barred from the Library as a man and therefore a potential rapist.)

I am, as Miss B would see it, a Counter Revolutionary.

She must have a whole drawer full of Pick Axe handles for Trannies.

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]]> By: Artemis http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37497 Artemis Fri, 07 Nov 2008 14:45:07 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37497 I'd say more like 120-140, but there could well have been 150. Either way it's twice the 70 the radical separatist feminists are estimating for us, and we were certainly not the "baying mob" that Ms Bindel called us on Facebook. I'd say more like 120-140, but there could well have been 150. Either way it's twice the 70 the radical separatist feminists are estimating for us, and we were certainly not the "baying mob" that Ms Bindel called us on Facebook.

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]]> By: Iris http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37495 Iris Fri, 07 Nov 2008 14:05:47 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37495 You're very welcome, Denise :) Having read that article, I'm definitely no fan of Bindel. She sickens me. I just don't get what her problem is. There was so much that was offensive in that article, I couldn't even begin to comment on it. Who does she think she is to be judging and dictating to ANYONE? I'm very glad she didn't appear to have much support in her counter-protest. (Thank you for the photos, Absolut Queer, btw.) You're very welcome, Denise :) Having read that article, I'm definitely no fan of Bindel. She sickens me. I just don't get what her problem is. There was so much that was offensive in that article, I couldn't even begin to comment on it. Who does she think she is to be judging and dictating to ANYONE?
I'm very glad she didn't appear to have much support in her counter-protest. (Thank you for the photos, Absolut Queer, btw.)

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]]> By: Natacha Kennedy http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37494 Natacha Kennedy Fri, 07 Nov 2008 13:51:05 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37494 I would like to support what Denise has said above; Trans people actually support and agree with the overwhelming majority of feminism. We would very much like to initiate (or continue) dialogue with feminists. We are not enemies of feminism, far from it. A big thank you to all the 150 people who demonstrated peacefully. I would like to support what Denise has said above; Trans people actually support and agree with the overwhelming majority of feminism. We would very much like to initiate (or continue) dialogue with feminists. We are not enemies of feminism, far from it.

A big thank you to all the 150 people who demonstrated peacefully.

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]]> By: Absolut Queer http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37492 Absolut Queer Fri, 07 Nov 2008 13:29:48 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37492 Photos from the demonstrations- both sides here http://flickr.com/photos/1queer1/sets/72157608714712844/ High Res photos released under Creative Commons for Non Commercial Use. The Protests were very different- There were about 150 Trans Supporters who kept up a happy, cheerful but targeted protest at Stonewall. The Counter protest was 8 people standing in silence who left early. Photos from the demonstrations- both sides here
http://flickr.com/photos/1queer1/sets/72157608714712844/
High Res photos released under Creative Commons for Non Commercial Use.

The Protests were very different- There were about 150 Trans Supporters who kept up a happy, cheerful but targeted protest at Stonewall.

The Counter protest was 8 people standing in silence who left early.

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]]> By: 3genders http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37488 3genders Fri, 07 Nov 2008 12:30:11 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37488 Stonewall/Brickwall? Both speak silence when talked to. Stonewall/Brickwall? Both speak silence when talked to.

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]]> By: Denise http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37469 Denise Fri, 07 Nov 2008 10:33:15 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37469 Ah yes i forgot, it was claimed over 100 trans people would come from around the country... and we did, even someone flew over from europe to be there... the big purple Julie Bindel banner was over the other side, with 12 people... that speaks volumes of the true support she has... Ah yes i forgot, it was claimed over 100 trans people would come from around the country… and we did, even someone flew over from europe to be there… the big purple Julie Bindel banner was over the other side, with 12 people… that speaks volumes of the true support she has…

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]]> By: Denise http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37468 Denise Fri, 07 Nov 2008 10:29:35 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37468 Thank you Iris for your comments and doing that reading. I can assure you that most trans people have no issues at all with feminists... crikey theres a good few of us that share the same views of oppression... we have held out the hand to Bindel, we have offered to explain to her... but she would prefer to hold her ground, shes stone aged, many lesbians have had enough of her... the best thing we can all do with Bindel is turn our backs on her and ignore her, and never allow her to stand on a platform, like the NUS have voted to do... Thank you Iris for your comments and doing that reading.

I can assure you that most trans people have no issues at all with feminists… crikey theres a good few of us that share the same views of oppression… we have held out the hand to Bindel, we have offered to explain to her… but she would prefer to hold her ground, shes stone aged, many lesbians have had enough of her… the best thing we can all do with Bindel is turn our backs on her and ignore her, and never allow her to stand on a platform, like the NUS have voted to do…

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]]> By: Artemis http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37458 Artemis Fri, 07 Nov 2008 08:54:15 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37458 The trouble is that it's not just words. If words meant nothing in real terms and had no impact on people's lives then Ms Bindel could carry on spouting ignorant transphobia until she's blue in the face for all I'd care. History shows us that it doesn't work like this. With the publication of Janice Raymond's "The Transsexual Empire" back in the late 70's there came a wave of violence right through the 80's by radical separatists against transpeople. What we fear - and we have every reason to fear it - is that honouring a person with such views will provide a measure of impetus to a similar campaign of outrages in the 21st century. Can the radical separatist feminists assure us that none within their ranks still harbour ambitions of war against us? The trouble is that it's not just words. If words meant nothing in real terms and had no impact on people's lives then Ms Bindel could carry on spouting ignorant transphobia until she's blue in the face for all I'd care. History shows us that it doesn't work like this. With the publication of Janice Raymond's "The Transsexual Empire" back in the late 70's there came a wave of violence right through the 80's by radical separatists against transpeople. What we fear – and we have every reason to fear it – is that honouring a person with such views will provide a measure of impetus to a similar campaign of outrages in the 21st century.

Can the radical separatist feminists assure us that none within their ranks still harbour ambitions of war against us?

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]]> By: Celia http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37452 Celia Fri, 07 Nov 2008 02:00:02 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37452 Her opinions on transsexuality have absolutely nothing to do with feminism, and everything to do with classic right-wing bigotry of the "ew, trannies are sick" variety. Dressing it up in a very very thin layer of "feminist" gloss means nothing, and it's staggering that people fall for it time and again. So much radical feminism is nothing but a really sneaky way to be reactionary and right-wing. Her opinions on transsexuality have absolutely nothing to do with feminism, and everything to do with classic right-wing bigotry of the "ew, trannies are sick" variety. Dressing it up in a very very thin layer of "feminist" gloss means nothing, and it's staggering that people fall for it time and again. So much radical feminism is nothing but a really sneaky way to be reactionary and right-wing.

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]]> By: Iris http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37449 Iris Thu, 06 Nov 2008 22:29:20 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37449 I'd never read anything by Julie Bindel, but this article on Pink News made me search out 'Gender Benders, Beware'. I couldn't believe the ignorance of the woman. Utterly astounding, and crass ignorance at that, with it's aggressive and dismissive language. I can't understand why she got an award at all. She represents evrything that's bad about feminists in my opinion. But don't get me started on *some* feminists (apologies to the decent ones who've posted above). I'd never read anything by Julie Bindel, but this article on Pink News made me search out 'Gender Benders, Beware'. I couldn't believe the ignorance of the woman. Utterly astounding, and crass ignorance at that, with it's aggressive and dismissive language. I can't understand why she got an award at all. She represents evrything that's bad about feminists in my opinion. But don't get me started on *some* feminists (apologies to the decent ones who've posted above).

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]]> By: wossname http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37446 wossname Thu, 06 Nov 2008 21:40:03 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37446 Stonewall? Stonefaced more like. Last time I dip into my pocket for them Stonewall? Stonefaced more like. Last time I dip into my pocket for them

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]]> By: Christina Engela http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37445 Christina Engela Thu, 06 Nov 2008 21:25:56 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37445 Bindell is a disgusting bigot who demonstrates the same level of understanding and compassion for trans people that straight bigots demonstrate for all GLBT. Apologies from her mean nothing at all if not accompanied by retractions of her hate speech and ignorant rantings. All she is saying is "i'm sorry, but i'm still right and you trannies belong in an ex-gay/tranny rubber room"! She clearly demonstrates as much ignorance of what it is to be trans as what heterosexuals understand it is to be gay. And worse, she revels in persecution and bigotry of us through her ignorance! The protests against her award are not directed against lesbians or feminists - (I too am a feminist) but against the blatantly obvious transphobia demonstrated by her and those who support her. She claims that transgedendered folk are somehow mistakenly helping to reinforce a socially imposed gender binary - when in fact it is she who is guilty of this herself by criticizing us through her own definitions of what it is to be male, female, gay or lesbian - or feminist! As far as she is concerned you are either one or the other and nobody has the right to blend or blur the neat ordered little divisions in her black and white little world. The Stonewall UK award in recognition for her work in breaking down barriers for "the third sex" in society through her journalistic (transphobic) advocacy in print and in the visual media is a slap in the face for all of us, let alone the trans community! Why not send an award to James Dobson while you are at it? It is the same thing! Christina Engela, South Africa Bindell is a disgusting bigot who demonstrates the same level of understanding and compassion for trans people that straight bigots demonstrate for all GLBT. Apologies from her mean nothing at all if not accompanied by retractions of her hate speech and ignorant rantings. All she is saying is "i'm sorry, but i'm still right and you trannies belong in an ex-gay/tranny rubber room"!

She clearly demonstrates as much ignorance of what it is to be trans as what heterosexuals understand it is to be gay. And worse, she revels in persecution and bigotry of us through her ignorance!

The protests against her award are not directed against lesbians or feminists – (I too am a feminist) but against the blatantly obvious transphobia demonstrated by her and those who support her.

She claims that transgedendered folk are somehow mistakenly helping to reinforce a socially imposed gender binary – when in fact it is she who is guilty of this herself by criticizing us through her own definitions of what it is to be male, female, gay or lesbian – or feminist! As far as she is concerned you are either one or the other and nobody has the right to blend or blur the neat ordered little divisions in her black and white little world.

The Stonewall UK award in recognition for her work in breaking down barriers for "the third sex" in society through her journalistic (transphobic) advocacy in print and in the visual media is a slap in the face for all of us, let alone the trans community! Why not send an award to James Dobson while you are at it? It is the same thing!

Christina Engela, South Africa

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]]> By: Tash C http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37443 Tash C Thu, 06 Nov 2008 20:42:35 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37443 And Jen? I'm a socialist feminist. Okay, a sixteen year old one, but definitely not a transphobe. Very few are. Perhaps you were thinking of "radical" "feminists" like Janice Raymond etc? And Jen? I'm a socialist feminist. Okay, a sixteen year old one, but definitely not a transphobe. Very few are. Perhaps you were thinking of "radical" "feminists" like Janice Raymond etc?

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]]> By: Tash C http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37442 Tash C Thu, 06 Nov 2008 20:40:35 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37442 Huh! *I'm* a feminist, and I'm not a *transphobe!* Huh! *I'm* a feminist, and I'm not a *transphobe!*

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]]> By: Jen http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-9516.html/comment-page-1/#comment-37436 Jen Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:17:20 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=9516#comment-37436 There's an important word missing from start of that "feminists plan a counter-demonstration" caption -- "transphobic". People who subscribe to oppressive socialist-feminist analysis reflect only a single strand of feminism, there are trans-friendly liberal feminists - and indeed some of those are trans people themselves. There's an important word missing from start of that "feminists plan a counter-demonstration" caption — "transphobic". People who subscribe to oppressive socialist-feminist analysis reflect only a single strand of feminism, there are trans-friendly liberal feminists – and indeed some of those are trans people themselves.

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