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from what I heard from friends who were at the initial protest; the security guards initially claimed they were responding to a sexual assault on a cisgender woman by a trans woman by barring trans women from the women's toilets. There was no such sexual assault, it was just used as justification for bigotry. There was however a later assault on a trans woman in the men's toilets after the protest died down and the security guards reinstated the ban on trans women in the women's toilets.

That is the version that reached me on the day of pride (shortly before I myself was transphobically assaulted by an elbow to the head on the train home) and nobody has since seen fit to tell me otherwise.

Artemis.

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The uncontestable fact is that trans people are just people and deserve to be respected living their life as they choose; just like everyone else.

There doesnt seem to be much gained from endlessly arguing over this situation….

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For example "Vigorous verbal" does in fact fall into the definition of Assualt (which is causing someone to believe they are in danger) but doesnt fall into the definition of Battery (a physical assualt).

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Michal, you are 100% right… there is a number of people trying to muddy the waters surrounding what really happened on that day and thank goodness some of the people who have an interest in this debate are now starting to see through some of the misrepresentations made by certain individuals…

I quote again "the obfuscation and tendentiousness in Debbs and Bentcopper's responses will be obvious to so many reading these comments (on Pink News). I'm sorry but you cannot just shout longer and harder and throw more mud and expect to win this kind of argument. Certain facts are known and are NOT for 'renegotiation'"

Again I agree 100%… you CAN NOT just be the ones who shout longer and harder and expect to win this kind or dispute. CERTAIN FACTS ARE NOT FOR RENOGOTIATION…. (And those facts are finally reaching this audience… it is now for them to decide)

And finally I agree again with the fact that I am sure some people will find mine and Bentcopper's responces too be obvious to some readers of this site.. (again as quoted by Michal) The refreshing thing is that we are challenging some peoples outright distortions of the truth surrounding that unfortunate event, and some readers are starting to see that there is always too sides to any one story…

The most important point here is what happened that day was wrong, but distorting the truth to suit others is darn right irresponsible and does not one any good in the long run…

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I'm sorry but you cannot just shout longer and harder and throw more mud and expect to win this kind of argument.

Certain facts are known and are NOT for 'renegotiation'.

1. A transwoman was attacked in the ladies in Trafalgar Squ.
2. Instead of policing the toilets to prevent a further occurrance, the security firm elected to separate the transwomen by forcing them to use the disabled cubicle.
3. Roz Kaveney was denied access and came to the Trans With Pride Stall to tell us.
4. We went and protested the denial of her rights under the Goods and Services Provisions (Amendments April 2008) of the Sexual Discrimination Act 1975.*
5. One of the security guards reported our action using the unfortunate phrase "bunch of trannies"
5. No assault took place but a vigorous verbal exercise of the issues.
6. An off-duty police officer came to try to resolve the situation and stated erroniously, and regrettably somewhat loudly and repetitively, that we had to produce a GRC to use the target gender facilities.**
7. After much discussion, and some support from the largely L and G folk queueing to use the facilities (although none from Pride management who were notified early by the Chair of Trans@Pride of the situation)the security staff received a radio message and said 'you can use whatever facility you like'. We thanked them and dispersed.
8. The committee members and others who had protested left Pride to take our iconic statue of Shiva from the parade to a place of storage.
9. (The security officers re-instate the ban. We did not know this at the time) The following Sunday I was informed at the Beaumont Society by a Transwoman I know that she had been assaulted in the MEN'S toilets. She was still in some distress about the incident. She and the woman she had been caring for on the day told me what had happened. She had reported it to Police on the day and MP had made strenuous attempts to catch the perpetrator, cordoning off part of Trafalgar Square and gathering evidence etc.
10. In the following week the Met issued the misleading press release about the incident. We talk to GALOP about what really happened and the subsequent assault and they talked to the Met.
10. The meeting with Commander Allen who genuinely seemed to be listening to our issues. Roz Kaveney and a Det Sgt both said they had watched the CCTV in its entirety and that no violence was perpetrated or threatened by the demonstrators. Chair of Trans@Pride statedas much to the meeting and it was not challenged by any of the many senior police officers there.
11. The statement by Met Police retracting the allegations and apologising.

Others speaking on this board and others calling for stern measures speak for themselves not those who were there, although I do understand their depth of feeling *blows big kiss to Abi*
Michal Trans@Pride committee member 2008

* If I have misquoted for date or wording please put me right.
** I listened to the LGBTLO officer until he stopped repeating GRC as proof of identity (its what I do for a living) and told him that that is not what the GRC is for, and he started up again, also saying we could all be arrested for public order offences. To be fair he was just one guy trying to fix a situation that was too much for him. All we wanted afterwards was for him to be trained in what the law now states in this matter and what a GRC is for.

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I couldnt agree more that what happen to Roz was awful. The lies that have been told since are an insult to her!

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Deborah Luze wrote
at 1:20am on September 27th, 2008
There is 1159 members of this group who need to know the truth!
Review the pink press article again and read the comments…
I agree to deny Roz access to the female’s toilets was wrong but what I disagree with is the lies that have been told!

This is not about political gain this is about equal rights for each and every one of us! All the majority of us want is to be treated the same as everyone else in society, however some individuals seem to feel that by twisting the truth they can gain extra sympathy/reaction, which is the long term does none of us any good…

To gain equal rights we must accept each other! Challenge is due when we are discriminated against… but to exaggerate that discrimination is despicable and it does more harm than good to the whole LGB’T’ community.

I know people that attended the public police meeting who were scared to speak up for fear of being ridiculed by people in their own community.. That is wrong and speaks volumes about the individuals involved.

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DiDi – Thank you for your kind words and I wholly agree with what you are saying. The fundamental cause here should have been limited to the decision by certain Pride officials to direct 'assumed' genders into designated bathrooms. I fully understand and appreciate the upset this has caused. This was wrong and many people have apologised for this including the director of Pride himself. The offer from the police officer to be a witness to this speak volumes for his personal integrity and I am satisfied he did his best on the day in question.

Sandra – From the information I have received, the error re the statement was actually down to the police. I have been informed that the statement was sent out to certain members of the trans community asking for footnotes to be returned re the contents. The statement was amended by a third party and this was not checked by the police. The statement was released and the mistake was only realised when questions were rightly raised re it's contents. In relation to this thread the fault here lies with the Pink News for not checking out the story – but information I have since received gives some prudence to their flawed decision. (I am not a liberty to discuss this)

All I am concerned about here is the truth. No politics, no agendas… Facts and truths have been twisted and this incident needs to now come to a conclusion. Apologies have been made and promises made not to make the same mistakes again. Only time will tell if these promises can be fulfilled… but lets give those individuals the chance to correct the mistakes that have been made. Isn't that what progression is all about?

The final comment I would like to make is in relation to Christina's comment;

'Your 'spinning' of this event is shameful, Debs'

Reply: Oh please…. let's be honest now!

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A lesson for us all to consider the implications of "direct action" in the future so it doesnt set us back years like your actions did here Christina!

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We only found out about the second assault a week after Pride, and have campaigned about it ever since. Again, we could only campaign about it once we had information.

If Debs has more information than us about the original assault, we would be grateful to receive it.

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This was the SECOND assault on a trans person in the same block of toilets… and the demonstrators would be very interested to know exactly what happened if only someone would come forward and tell us.

Your 'spinning' of this event is shameful, Debs.

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I agree it was wrong to deny Roz access to the female toilets, especially at Pride of all days! However it seems a bit strange how on the day none of the people involved who are causing all this fuss seemed interested in the poor Trans women who was the victim of a sexual assault! In fact it was stated that, that was most probably a made up excuse…!!! Now however the people causing all this fuss are changing there story and saying it's all about the woman who was assaulted. Quote Christina "We are getting distracted now from the most unfortunate event of that day a Trans woman was sexually assaulted in the men's toilets."

Shame how on the day none of the people involved believed this story and now it becomes part of your 'agenda'!

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On Tuesday evening, 29th July, I together with other MPS colleagues, met with a number of people from the transgender communities in an open meeting in Westminster. This meeting came about as a consequence of events during Pride celebrations on 5 July.

The meeting generated a lively and helpful discussion about a range of issues covering the relevant incidents and wider issues of trust and confidence between the police and trans people. There were a number of areas talked about where I believe the MPS can now make further progress as a result.

The point was made, a number of times during the evening, about the need for us all to listen to and learn from each other.

Part of the learning has been about the impact on the trans communities of early responses from the MPS. In particular, it is clear that my "open letter" had a very different impact from the one I intended. My intention was to provide reassurance that a senior officer had taken ownership and was determined to learn the organisational lessons that would undoubtedly emerge.

I offer my personal and sincerest apology that my letter did not have the effect I had intended and upon closer reflection I can see why this caused deep upset to some of the trans communities. It was never my intention to suggest that my officer's actions would not be investigated or that there would be no need to offer advice and improved training to him and his colleagues.

It is clear that members of the trans communities and the officer found themselves involved in a set of circumstances for which the trans communities were not responsible. They were clearly the victims. Despite the best endeavours and intentions of the officer, these actions became misinterpreted in the heat of the moment resulting in confusion and hurt.

I hope that the response of the MPS speaks more loudly than my initial choice of words. We have taken ownership of the issues at a very senior level; we have circulated advice about the GRA to our officers; we have resolved the complaint against the police officer to the satisfaction of the party involved and continue to investigate with full vigour a number of criminal offences connected with these events. We have also, of course, held an open meeting to maintain dialogue with the community.

I have asked the Diversity and Citizen Focus Directorate to hold a de-brief of these events with MPS practitioners to ensure we get the maximum learning from them. I know that a significant issue to be taken forward is the raising of awareness and training of our staff and the Diversity & Citizen Focus Directorate are now looking at options that further expand our developing partnerships with our transgender support associations who can assist us with our continued learning of this complex arena of diversity.

We have to start from where we are, not where we would like to be. Mistakes have been made and I and certainly my colleagues within the Diversity and Citizen Focus Directorate are aware of the disappointment and anxieties the trans communities have felt over this highly regrettable incident. We have for some years striven to understand the many issues, which beset the trans communities and in so many ways we have succeeded in listening and responding.

Obviously the MPS has let you down on this occasion for which we have to double our efforts to repair and restore the much needed trust and confidence which can enable us to progress these issues in order to deliver very real and meaningful change.

Regards

Steve Allen
Commander

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Now that the facts have been ascertained about the peaceful demonstration by the trans protesters, we should focus on what is being done to bring the attacker to justice and to help the poor trans woman who was unnecessarily assaulted as a consequence of this misguided policy.

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