Comments on: 1,300 sign online petition calling for Heinz gay ad to be reinstated http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/ PinkNews.co.uk Gay News (UK and world) from Pink News - all the gay news for the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered community in the UK and beyond- thegaynews from Pink News Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:52:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: David Ewing http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32292 David Ewing Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:52:04 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32292 Its only a Kiss, soaps on the tv have more than that these days! Its only a Kiss, soaps on the tv have more than that these days!

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]]> By: Rod http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32250 Rod Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:20:30 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32250 Hi Sam, thanks for the voice of support in the face of such a rabid attack. And gay people like Mr. Shine have the nerve to accuse our enemies of being intolerent? As I said in an earlier post, gay men today are more likely to suffer intolerence and homophopbia from within our own culture (i.e. the gay scene) than outside of it. By the way, Pink News has just posted a version of Peter Tatchell's enlightened article here: http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8131.html Hi Sam, thanks for the voice of support in the face of such a rabid attack. And gay people like Mr. Shine have the nerve to accuse our enemies of being intolerent? As I said in an earlier post, gay men today are more likely to suffer intolerence and homophopbia from within our own culture (i.e. the gay scene) than outside of it. By the way, Pink News has just posted a version of Peter Tatchell's enlightened article here:

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8131.html

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]]> By: thomas looker http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32238 thomas looker Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:42:35 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32238 how stupid is this, what kind of people would complain about two men kissing. i think its about time we all started to complain about man and women kissing., surely thats discrimination against same sex couples right?! this is war! lol how stupid is this, what kind of people would complain about two men kissing. i think its about time we all started to complain about man and women kissing., surely thats discrimination against same sex couples right?! this is war! lol

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]]> By: Patrik Eriksson http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32216 Patrik Eriksson Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:52:33 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32216 So bad of Heinz in UK.. Cheers from Sweden So bad of Heinz in UK.. Cheers from Sweden

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]]> By: Greg Shine http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32187 Greg Shine Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:46:46 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32187 "We can really only all get on and live side by side in the world by respecting each others' spaces and not imposing our will or beliefs onto others." Rod, I totally agree,, but as we're no where near there yet, we have to stand up and fight for it. Rights and respect are earned. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance as the famous quote says, and your complacency is thankfully a rare thing among out gay men. When we have the equality, then we can bicker until we're blue in the face about the "label". You need a dose of reality, mate. "We can really only all get on and live side by side in the world by respecting each others' spaces and not imposing our will or beliefs onto others."

Rod, I totally agree,, but as we're no where near there yet, we have to stand up and fight for it. Rights and respect are earned. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance as the famous quote says, and your complacency is thankfully a rare thing among out gay men. When we have the equality, then we can bicker until we're blue in the face about the "label". You need a dose of reality, mate.

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]]> By: Greg Shine http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32185 Greg Shine Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:42:12 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32185 Actually Sam, its not bitchy. Its bad enough we haev to endure the constant abuse form right wing homophobes and the "clergy" of every nut job religion without listenen to the same from another gay man. If Rob doesn't associate himself with labels, pride or gay "culture", that's fine - its a free country and he has every right to that belief. But he has no right to belittle those who ARE willing to stand up and be counted at pride, or are willing to say I deserve better. The world Rob refers to might happen in 50 years, maybe 10, who knows... but I DO know, its doesn't exist in the UK today. If you see "bitchiness" in that, then so be it.... you can spend from her to eternity worrying about your "gay/straight/bi label", it wont get you any more rights than you already have. Actually Sam, its not bitchy. Its bad enough we haev to endure the constant abuse form right wing homophobes and the "clergy" of every nut job religion without listenen to the same from another gay man. If Rob doesn't associate himself with labels, pride or gay "culture", that's fine – its a free country and he has every right to that belief. But he has no right to belittle those who ARE willing to stand up and be counted at pride, or are willing to say I deserve better. The world Rob refers to might happen in 50 years, maybe 10, who knows… but I DO know, its doesn't exist in the UK today. If you see "bitchiness" in that, then so be it…. you can spend from her to eternity worrying about your "gay/straight/bi label", it wont get you any more rights than you already have.

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]]> By: Sam http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32177 Sam Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:44:37 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32177 In the face of an enlightened viewpoint, Greg clearly has nowhere to go but to resort to bitchiness and personal insults, which I suppose in itself is a very "gay" thing to do. I don't necessarily agree with all Rod says, but he has given me a lot to think about and challenged my "them-and-us"/"gay/straight" belief system. I will certainly be seeking out that article by Peter Tatchell. Thanks for bringing it to my attention! In the face of an enlightened viewpoint, Greg clearly has nowhere to go but to resort to bitchiness and personal insults, which I suppose in itself is a very "gay" thing to do.

I don't necessarily agree with all Rod says, but he has given me a lot to think about and challenged my "them-and-us"/"gay/straight" belief system.

I will certainly be seeking out that article by Peter Tatchell.
Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

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]]> By: Nick http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32174 Nick Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:23:22 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32174 Rod, I hear what you are saying, but have a different point of view. You mention a number of times that losts of gay people don't want to be associated with the flag waving whistle blowing antics of Pride and that is perfectly true. However, when you say: "don't delude yourself into thinking you represent the 4,990,000 of us who won't be joining you because, in this enlightened age of mainstream integration and general acceptance, they just don't see the point." I think you might be imagining that all the people who don't go, don't go purely because they have weighed up all the options and decided that it is not for them. I think you will find that there are plenty out there who would love to go along and meet other gay people, but because of their home life, financial situation, closetedness or fear of abuse if they identify as gay, they just can't make the move. They aren't integrated becuase they don't feel able to be themselves in a society that still, as you say, finds it alien to be gay on lots of levels. I am no alien - I don't want to be viewed as such and won't tolerate anyone treating me as such. You also say : "We can really only all get on and live side by side in the world by respecting each others' spaces and not imposing our will or beliefs onto others." I totally agree with that, but when gay people are being bashed and beaten, we can't sit back and tolerate it. We have to force the agenda somewhat because no-one is going to do it for us. Hospitals that face closure do not get saved because of a 'no community mobilisation campaign'. They get saved because MPs get inundated with letters, calls, demonstrations etc from concerned interest parties. Those people make themselves visible and make themselves heard and push for what they want, and so must we. When homphobic abuse is properly taken seriously and completely inexcusable, then maybe we will be integrated enough not to feel the need to parade through our city streets, but right now we aren't in that place and so we must continue to make ourselves visible, show our numbers and demand our equality. This isn't imposing our will on others, it is just stepping up and saying 'I am a citizen, I pay my taxes and contribute to this country and won't accpet treatment an less favourable than a heterosexual' Rod,

I hear what you are saying, but have a different point of view. You mention a number of times that losts of gay people don't want to be associated with the flag waving whistle blowing antics of Pride and that is perfectly true. However, when you say:
"don't delude yourself into thinking you represent the 4,990,000 of us who won't be joining you because, in this enlightened age of mainstream integration and general acceptance, they just don't see the point."

I think you might be imagining that all the people who don't go, don't go purely because they have weighed up all the options and decided that it is not for them. I think you will find that there are plenty out there who would love to go along and meet other gay people, but because of their home life, financial situation, closetedness or fear of abuse if they identify as gay, they just can't make the move. They aren't integrated becuase they don't feel able to be themselves in a society that still, as you say, finds it alien to be gay on lots of levels. I am no alien – I don't want to be viewed as such and won't tolerate anyone treating me as such.

You also say :

"We can really only all get on and live side by side in the world by respecting each others' spaces and not imposing our will or beliefs onto others."

I totally agree with that, but when gay people are being bashed and beaten, we can't sit back and tolerate it. We have to force the agenda somewhat because no-one is going to do it for us. Hospitals that face closure do not get saved because of a 'no community mobilisation campaign'. They get saved because MPs get inundated with letters, calls, demonstrations etc from concerned interest parties. Those people make themselves visible and make themselves heard and push for what they want, and so must we.

When homphobic abuse is properly taken seriously and completely inexcusable, then maybe we will be integrated enough not to feel the need to parade through our city streets, but right now we aren't in that place and so we must continue to make ourselves visible, show our numbers and demand our equality. This isn't imposing our will on others, it is just stepping up and saying 'I am a citizen, I pay my taxes and contribute to this country and won't accpet treatment an less favourable than a heterosexual'

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]]> By: Rod http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32167 Rod Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:36:18 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32167 Wasn't the point about Little Britain's "Only gay in the village" the fact that he wasn't really the only gay in the village, but that he chose to make a point of labelling himself "gay" and stamping his feet and thumping his fists until people noticed? Why can't the minority of mlitant, reactionary gays who claim to speak for millions of others learn from this and just accept that we choose to lead quiet, normal lives and blend into the mainstream as opposed to attracting unnecessary attention to ourselves? It is behaviour like theirs that fuels the kind of animosity that leads to attacks, both verbal and physical. Gay is a label, a lifestyle and a political construct. If you read Peter Tatchell's excellent article in this year's official PLondon Pride magazine, you will learn that sexually is in fact a very fluid thing, and that the terms "gay" and "straight" when strictly defined do not in fact apply to 90% of the population! I am sexually attracted to other men but I refuse to buy into that divisive "gay"/"staright" them-and-us bullshit. We can really only all get on and live side by side in the world by respecting each others' spaces and not imposing our will or beliefs onto others. Wasn't the point about Little Britain's "Only gay in the village" the fact that he wasn't really the only gay in the village, but that he chose to make a point of labelling himself "gay" and stamping his feet and thumping his fists until people noticed? Why can't the minority of mlitant, reactionary gays who claim to speak for millions of others learn from this and just accept that we choose to lead quiet, normal lives and blend into the mainstream as opposed to attracting unnecessary attention to ourselves? It is behaviour like theirs that fuels the kind of animosity that leads to attacks, both verbal and physical. Gay is a label, a lifestyle and a political construct. If you read Peter Tatchell's excellent article in this year's official PLondon Pride magazine, you will learn that sexually is in fact a very fluid thing, and that the terms "gay" and "straight" when strictly defined do not in fact apply to 90% of the population! I am sexually attracted to other men but I refuse to buy into that divisive "gay"/"staright" them-and-us bullshit. We can really only all get on and live side by side in the world by respecting each others' spaces and not imposing our will or beliefs onto others.

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]]> By: Greg Shine http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32166 Greg Shine Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:28:57 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32166 "The proof is the London Pride march. In a country that must have around around 5m of us, only 10,000 turn out. Call that "pride"?" Yes, I do. And so do many of us. I am proud to be gay, and that clearly puts me miles ahead of you. And that sad attempt to belittle those who have the guts to stand up and be counted and march is hardly scientific "proof". You can keep your homophobia and self loathing, thanks, but next time don't insult my intelligence with this anecdotal crap as "proof". Perhaps, Rod, you should contact Iris Robinson, she knows a "lovely psychiatrist" who can help you overcome the "abomination" you are. "The proof is the London Pride march. In a country that must have around around 5m of us, only 10,000 turn out. Call that "pride"?"

Yes, I do. And so do many of us. I am proud to be gay, and that clearly puts me miles ahead of you. And that sad attempt to belittle those who have the guts to stand up and be counted and march is hardly scientific "proof". You can keep your homophobia and self loathing, thanks, but next time don't insult my intelligence with this anecdotal crap as "proof".

Perhaps, Rod, you should contact Iris Robinson, she knows a "lovely psychiatrist" who can help you overcome the "abomination" you are.

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]]> By: Rod http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32162 Rod Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:12:08 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32162 "And your proof for that is where, Rod?" The proof is the London Pride march. In a country that must have around around 5m of us, only 10,000 turn out. Call that "pride"? No doubt you will be at the front of the parade blowing your whistle and waving your placard and making a spectacle of yourself. That is your choice and I embrace the freedom that allows you to do that, but just don't delude yourself into thinking you represent the 4,990,000 of us who won't be joining you because, in this enlightened age of mainstream integration and general acceptance, they just don't see the ponint. "And your proof for that is where, Rod?"

The proof is the London Pride march. In a country that must have around around 5m of us, only 10,000 turn out. Call that "pride"? No doubt you will be at the front of the parade blowing your whistle and waving your placard and making a spectacle of yourself. That is your choice and I embrace the freedom that allows you to do that, but just don't delude yourself into thinking you represent the 4,990,000 of us who won't be joining you because, in this enlightened age of mainstream integration and general acceptance, they just don't see the ponint.

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]]> By: Greg Shine http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32160 Greg Shine Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:03:37 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32160 "the majority just do not want to be associated with the political, militant gay lobby in this enlightened age." And your proof for that is where, Rod? If you want to hate the gay community for their actions here, or elsewhere, fine, but don't ridicule those who try to make a difference by objection to this action by Heinz. Clearly you don't associate yourself with the majority of gay people, and that's fine, you entitled to that... so what are you doing in this site protesting? Why not put your head back into the sand in case you upset any of those who might be find our fight "alien to the majority". You clearly have a lot more issues against the gay community than one Heinz ad campaign. What we don't need is another queer crawling on his belly for fear he will offend the "majority" with his queerness. No one's asking you to fight for equality, if you're happy with your lot in this world, good for you, then just run along. "the majority just do not want to be associated with the political, militant gay lobby in this enlightened age."

And your proof for that is where, Rod?

If you want to hate the gay community for their actions here, or elsewhere, fine, but don't ridicule those who try to make a difference by objection to this action by Heinz. Clearly you don't associate yourself with the majority of gay people, and that's fine, you entitled to that… so what are you doing in this site protesting? Why not put your head back into the sand in case you upset any of those who might be find our fight "alien to the majority". You clearly have a lot more issues against the gay community than one Heinz ad campaign.

What we don't need is another queer crawling on his belly for fear he will offend the "majority" with his queerness. No one's asking you to fight for equality, if you're happy with your lot in this world, good for you, then just run along.

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]]> By: Rod http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32157 Rod Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:47:33 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32157 If you are all so desperate to watch gay men snogging on TV, watch Hollyoaks or any show made by HBO, and stop being used by Stonewall as pawns to implement its New Labour agenda to suppress freedom of speech under the transparent guise of "hate laws"!! If you are all so desperate to watch gay men snogging on TV, watch Hollyoaks or any show made by HBO, and stop being used by Stonewall as pawns to implement its New Labour agenda to suppress freedom of speech under the transparent guise of "hate laws"!!

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]]> By: greg http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32155 greg Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:49:51 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32155 hey thorton---you just admitted that your kind doesn't buy heinz anyway, so way all the fuss if heinz pulls their ad? see?--you're inconsistent in your thought processes-(must be the "toppings" you "eat"} hey thorton—you just admitted that your kind doesn't buy heinz anyway, so way all the fuss if heinz pulls their ad? see?–you're inconsistent in your thought processes-(must be the "toppings" you "eat"}

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]]> By: Elenie Opffer http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32149 Elenie Opffer Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:07:57 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32149 Bring back the advert! I loved it. Its refreshing to see blokes expressing affection instead of beating on each other. Bring back the advert! I loved it. Its refreshing to see blokes expressing affection instead of beating on each other.

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]]> By: Sam http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32121 Sam Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:27:03 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32121 Show it again! What are you afraid of? Show it again! What are you afraid of?

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]]> By: Rod http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32116 Rod Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:04:49 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32116 Thanks Ashley for your voice of reason! Let's just get this into context. Heinz were brave enough to sanction this ad in the first place, but in light of the complaints they receive decided to pull it. The decision to pull it was not a homophobic one; it was a commercial decision. The hysteria that has greeted this decision is an embarrassment to gay men like myself who just want a normal life without the word "gay" branded on their left shoulder. It is why only 10,000, rainbow flag-waving gays go on the Pride march these days; the majority just do not want to be associated with the political, militant gay lobby in this enlightened age. If you sign this petition, then you are no different to the fundamentalist Muslims who are pushing for Sharia law to be made mainstream in the UK. Yes, another minority group trying to impose its lifestye on the majority! Now you wonder why Heinz received so many complaints! I would suspect that most members of the general public who did complain are not homophobic at all; they just don't want to see our lifestyle rammed down their throats, and that is what this ad does. Unlke a programme that is known to focus on gays, such as a soap opera with gay characters which they can choose not to watch, they have no choice where an ad featuring gay characters suddenly pops up between ads for Nike and Weetabix. I am not surprised so many were outraged to suddenly see two men kiss on a Heinz ad without warning! Whether we like it or not, our lifestyle is alien to the majority, who are generally accepting of us so long as it is not thrust down their throats. All of those up in arms about this and signing petitions to reverse the ad withdrawal are only succeeding in turning public opinion against us, and working against the great strides made in gay rights in recent years. Thanks Ashley for your voice of reason! Let's just get this into context. Heinz were brave enough to sanction this ad in the first place, but in light of the complaints they receive decided to pull it. The decision to pull it was not a homophobic one; it was a commercial decision. The hysteria that has greeted this decision is an embarrassment to gay men like myself who just want a normal life without the word "gay" branded on their left shoulder. It is why only 10,000, rainbow flag-waving gays go on the Pride march these days; the majority just do not want to be associated with the political, militant gay lobby in this enlightened age. If you sign this petition, then you are no different to the fundamentalist Muslims who are pushing for Sharia law to be made mainstream in the UK. Yes, another minority group trying to impose its lifestye on the majority! Now you wonder why Heinz received so many complaints! I would suspect that most members of the general public who did complain are not homophobic at all; they just don't want to see our lifestyle rammed down their throats, and that is what this ad does. Unlke a programme that is known to focus on gays, such as a soap opera with gay characters which they can choose not to watch, they have no choice where an ad featuring gay characters suddenly pops up between ads for Nike and Weetabix. I am not surprised so many were outraged to suddenly see two men kiss on a Heinz ad without warning! Whether we like it or not, our lifestyle is alien to the majority, who are generally accepting of us so long as it is not thrust down their throats. All of those up in arms about this and signing petitions to reverse the ad withdrawal are only succeeding in turning public opinion against us, and working against the great strides made in gay rights in recent years.

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]]> By: jay christopher bailey http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32104 jay christopher bailey Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:15:19 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32104 oh my god!!!!! has heinz gone completely mad. what is the world comin too its the 21st century for christ sake. i know the next time we see a man and woman kissin, us as meanin the gay communitty should boycott that and ask them to remove it cause it offends, and that i dont want to have to explain to the children what they are actually doing. jay wigan x oh my god!!!!! has heinz gone completely mad. what is the world comin too its the 21st century for christ sake. i know the next time we see a man and woman kissin, us as meanin the gay communitty should boycott that and ask them to remove it cause it offends, and that i dont want to have to explain to the children what they are actually doing.

jay wigan x

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]]> By: Ashley http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32103 Ashley Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:00:34 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32103 Oh God! The classic, 'not one of us' if they don't agree with me issue! Gays and Lesbians aren't one homogenous mass with the same views, politics, interests and lifestyles you know. We are a pretty diverse bunch. Get used to it. Oh God! The classic, 'not one of us' if they don't agree with me issue! Gays and Lesbians aren't one homogenous mass with the same views, politics, interests and lifestyles you know. We are a pretty diverse bunch. Get used to it.

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]]> By: Rod http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-8096.html/comment-page-1/#comment-32095 Rod Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:21:25 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/?p=8096#comment-32095 Am I the only one here who thinks Thornton is a Militant gay who instantly smears others who dare to hold an opposing viewpoint? Am I the only one here who thinks Thornton is a Militant gay who instantly smears others who dare to hold an opposing viewpoint?

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