Comments on: Williams under continued pressure over Sharia law speech

By: Robert, ex-pat Brit

Robert, ex-pat Brit — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:49:00 +0000

Dear Editor, the comments section still cannot be accessed via haloscan. I have to copy the URL and paste to my browser in order to get to the comments responses. Something is definitely wrong with the website. I've tried everything, adjusted popup blockers to no avail, adjusted firewall settings, still no resolution.

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By: editor

editor — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 19:41:00 +0000

Readers have reported problems with this thread so I have started another one which can be accessed through the story "Archbishop unerpentant over Sharia comments"

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By: Dai

Dai — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 19:10:00 +0000

Hi Guys,I'm having trouble getting into HaloScan to post messages via the usual method, i.e. clicking on Readers Comments. When I do, nothing happens. Anybody else having that problem or had that problem?Have had to recourse to a rather roundabout method to get here.Dai.

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By: Robert, ex-pat Brit

Robert, ex-pat Brit — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:16:00 +0000

Hi World of Twist, he has indeed got it spectacularly wrong! He needs to go. His comments are sounding more like Akinola's in a lot of ways. The man clearly has no backbone, will sell out to whatever is politically expedient and we will always be the sacrifice on the altar of bigotry and hypocrisy, he has seen to that. To digress, for some reason, whenever I try to respond to comments by clicking on an specific post, it doesn't seem to open up for me in the usual manner. I now have to paste "haloscan" url into my browser to open it. Any ideas why that is suddenly happening? I've tried adjusting pop-up blocker and nothing seems to be worked. I thought for a minute there were technical difficulties with the website.

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By: apYrs

apYrs — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 16:14:00 +0000

having read a bit more of what old beardy said, I think something he wants is for the muslim community to have something equivalent to "Beth Din" the jewish civil system recognised by the English system, as well as the ability for islamic clerics to marry people and register them.Of course he doesn't seek the same right for humanists, nor the right of lesbians and gays to CP in chusrch (if they would wish to)hypocrite!

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By: Dai

Dai — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:10:00 +0000

Luke, just a quick note to recommend you visit the Talk threads at The Guardian. You may not already be aware of them. What they reveal is a massive number of posters who are the anthithesis of your perception of The Guardian. Sometimes, in fact, I find the discussion TOO anarchic, TOO without balanced thought and restraint. However, if you have a good look at some of the threads there in which people like us are interested, I think you will be very pleasantly surprised . . . and we may even notice that you are posting there with more gusto than you are here!

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By: World of Twist

World of Twist — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:22:00 +0000

Hi RobertXPWhere Williams has got it spectacularly wrong is that he expects The muslim community to dilute Sharia for the British palate.He really thinks that British Sharia would be a quite different animal from it's counterparts in Saudi and Pakistan. Not according to many Muslims making their voices heard on the matter. To them the word of Allah is absolute and cannot be changed. Therefore the very things Williams predicts will not be on the cards…are in fact one the cards.From what I can gather from reading discussions on the net, Muslim bloggers seem to fall into two categories, those who are against Sharia in any form and those that are for it …in all it's glory, undiluted, unchanging, and unnaccountable.This is what Wiiliams wants for this country, Religion unbound and unfettered .

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By: Robert, ex-pat Brit

Robert, ex-pat Brit — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 16:01:00 +0000

World of Twist, yes, that was an interesting article indeed. I think many deists are aware that their belief systems are becoming more transparent and are in fact on the decline, hence the backlash. For example, take that evil cult leader, the Pope. His church in Spain will NEVER succeed in turning back the clock. They can protest all they want, its not going to happen. The world is moving on without them. They are becoming more irrelevant with every passing day, but not soon enough. As long as we are ever vigilant and bash back, they will never succeed. They are losing the cultural war and the winds of change are blowing in our favour, its inevitable, as hard as it seems at times.

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By: Robert, ex-pat Brit

Robert, ex-pat Brit — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:06:00 +0000

Steve Hope: "Intelligent and open-minded Muslims know how poisonous Shariah is."I dare say that may be true, but open-minded muslims are few and far between and are not the majority or ever will be. I haven't had the good fortune of meeting one yet and in any event, why aren't they making headlines condemning these abominable crimes against humanity, especially in the UK?

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By: Robert, ex-pat Brit

Robert, ex-pat Brit — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:01:00 +0000

Luke, here, here!! Both far left, centrist and far right are equally guilty of connivance. Remember the British teacher who was jailed over that ridiculous teddy bear incident?I doubt if they'd do the same had she been jailed or tortured for being a perceived lesbian. Look what happened, the government and others went to bat for her release and won. Yes, where are the socalled moderate muslims in the UK when we need them? Only goes to show they support torture and execution of our fellow LGB people. Nobody will ever convince me that Islam is a peaceful religion, it claims it respects all human life and condemns killing…………bollocks to that and bollocks to them too!!

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By: Robert, ex-pat Brit

Robert, ex-pat Brit — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 13:51:00 +0000

Dai, I totally concur with your views.

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By: Robert, ex-pat Brit

Robert, ex-pat Brit — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 13:51:00 +0000

Roberto, Williams will say absolutely nothing about the two young men in Iran. His and his followers' silence will give consent, make no mistake about that. He's a despicable piece of work and should be booted out. Better yet, we should have a movement to push for the abolition of state religion. Its like a cancer, slowly eating away at its victims. Sharia law is a pernicious tumour spreading its evil tentacles to other parts of the collective religious body everywhere. Time to excise it and put it out of its misery.

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By: Steve Hope

Steve Hope — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:10:00 +0000

Everyone please read Yasmin Alibhai-Brown's view of this in today's (10 feb)Independent, also online. Brilliant and definitive. Intelligent and open-minded Muslims know how poisonous Shariah is. It isn't even very Muslim.

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By: Luke

Luke — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:31:00 +0000

Executing people by throwing them off a cliff??????????Would Ken Livingstone like to comment? After all, his chum Yusuf al-Qaradawi advocates killing us, presumably by the same method.If anyone advocated killing Jews, their feet wouldn't touch the floor on the way to the courtroom (quite rightly).But gays? well, it's a cultural difference. A philosophical one even. Even the Nazis tried to hide their murders by committing them in out of the way death camps. Islam wants to turn our murders into a spectator sport!And where are the outcries from the moderate muslim groups? The ones whose whineing voices are heard at their suffering when a teddy bear is misnamed or some cartoons are drawn of their prophet in Denmark. Oh the pain!Prince Charles, the Grauniad, the Independent are quick to condemn any perceived slight against Islam, but go quiet when gays are murdered using the same ideology.Oh, those Left wing papers will sneer at any Tory who objects to gay marriage, but say nothing at the mad clerics who want us dead. Best brush it under the carpet eh editor? Don't want to mess up our PC credentails.Well there's nothing f*****g PC about murdering gays you santimonious twats.There doesn't seem to be one muslim group that will say "Let's ditch the violence from the koran, we don't need to kill gays, this is the 21st century". But they seem to be so quick off the mark with threats and intimidation when anyone objects to the barbarity of islam.And the connivance and the hypocrisy of the far Left is sickening. I've seen labour MPs openly mock the homphobia in the Bible but go quiet with the Koran. Are they hypocrites or cowards?People seem concerned about the difference between gay civil union and marriage. It will be completely irrelevent if Europe turns into Eurabia. And with the demographics it will happen. Look at Holland, Denmark and Belgium. They could all fall to islam and the mad clerics know it. It's just a numbers game. Gay rights will be the first laws to be repealed. They're non existent in every islamic country so don't think it won't happen in Europe.They should put the pictures of gays being murdered in the name of Sharia on TV. Religion of Peace my Ass.

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By: Roberto

Roberto — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 01:11:00 +0000

I wonder what the Arch Dhimmi, Williams, has to say about Iran's decision to kill those two Gay lads by throwing them off a cliff – using Sharia Law?What will he say and do I wonder?His dithering and backstepping on the whole Gay issue in the church fuels those evil bigots in the USA and Africa. His backing for Sharia will likewise please the bigots in Islam.Instead this silly man should once and for all side with right and support Gays – only then may he be taken seriously again.I do though think he's too intellectual and weak willed to actually make any decision for which he'll be remembered, other than (of course) his stupid comments supporting barbaric Sharia Law!

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By: World of Twist

World of Twist — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 17:44:00 +0000

Hi RobertXP,Who could believe the massive outcry this has provoked? I don't think there was a single site on the net that contained a forum that didn't go into melt down over this. Even Fitlads had a voice.I found this excellent post on the Guardian-"statelineComment No. 1117122February 9 17:05GBR"The Gay Police Association said it was aware of colleagues refusing to serve with gay officers and quoting sections of the Bible at them on parade grounds."Public sector institutions claim that their policies permitting staff expression of religous and cultural beliefs have inbuilt protection against sexist discrimination because their employees are expected to show "respect".This is farcical."Respect" by whose definition?The staff member is entitled to expression of their cultural and religous beleifs.The female is entitled to "respect".So if a man decides that his religion and culture affords women respect by precluding him from touching them, and he refuses her a handshake, she is left with no redress, because theoretically, she has been shown "respect".A female acquaintance of mine who works for a London council complained to her HR dept that a fellow staff member refused to shake her hand because she is female. She was given a long lecture on "diversity" and organisational culture which amounted to her being told that by treating her differently to her male peers, he was being respectful (and, she says, it was implied she should be grateful for it and see the "positive side" in that he would be unlikely to oogle her!).This isn't a hypothetical discussion about what might happen.Enshrining an individual's right to behave in their occuption according to something as nebulous as their "religous beliefs" in a misguided attempt to prevent discrimination, simply ushers in a legitimisation of prejudice.Sainsburys allow their staff to refuse to handle alcohol if it impinges their "beliefs". What if a member of staff considers touching a box of tampons taboo? Are women to be sent to another counter?Women cannot rely on their pharmacist to supply them with emergency contraception – pharmacists have an opt out on, yup, "religous" grounds.Much of the focus on these issues seems to be on muslim belief.I'm glad that Williams has provoked discussion of the far widespread and dangerous christian efforts to erode the postenlightenment secularism which was flourishing in Britain but it now attacked regularly by christian groups, using muslim "needs" as a cover for their own agenda.It suits some christians to advocate greater acceptance of sharia, the introduction of sexual segregation in public spaces (ie municipal swimming pools) and the legitimisation of discriminatory behaviour in public sector organisational culture. After all, those queers will everywhere if they don't, eh? "Truer words were never spoken. When will society wake up to the sheer madness and mendacity of Deists?

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By: Dai

Dai — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 17:37:00 +0000

It's all about experience, isn't it: whether these guys have been exposed to the REALITIES of Islam or not. Williams will have met a good number of Islamic clerics in his time but that's it – soon as the handshaking is done he's back to his gorgeous palaces, Lambeth Palace or the splendid house beside Canterbury Cathedral. Remember Prince Charles declaring in the early 90s that he wished to see by the end of the century (that's the end of last century, i.e. the year 2000) a mosque in every British town? Another chinless twat completely isolated from the realities of life, living in the most disgusting luxury in a string of royal palaces. I bet after the Twin Towers and the London bombings he had second thoughts, but too late, the damage was done, the encouragement had been given! This fool, Williams, has also done great damage this past week. Great to hear a fellow-member of his Synod saying this morning on Radio 4 that she believes he should resign.I would also like to say that I believe that this Sharia nonsense of his is a very roundabout way of his dealing with his homosexual problems in the Church of England, a very circuitous way of trying to avoid schism. What he's really angling for is for religious beliefs of all and any kind to be above the law, in other words, I suppose, diminishing the power of our secular state.

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By: Robert, ex-pat Brit

Robert, ex-pat Brit — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 15:56:00 +0000

World of Twist, I'm thrilled that public opionion is turning against Williams' hideous statements. Its time for him to go, the man is totally out of touch with reality. He needs to find a real career, earn a living and pay his far share of taxes like the rest of us, the moron. He's not better than Akinola in Nigeria. Time to disestablish the C of E altogether, its irrelevant in modern 21st century Britain and incompatible with every day life. We'd be far better off without it and their sponging off the system. He's another parasite like the rest of his ilk.

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By: World of Twist

World of Twist — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 15:28:00 +0000

How Williams has the audacity to lecture the nation on how it can better effect cohesion when he cannot even properly handle splits,divisions and schism within his own organisation is beyond me.So while our men and women putting their lives on the line fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan Williams is Hell bent on opening the back door to Sharia, one of the most disgusting and repellant systems on Earth. Just how was that meant to go down?By opening the Pandora's box just a crack he has given succour to every extremist in the land and paved the way to a very long wedge. By even contemplating Sharia on a public platform Williams is guilty of almost criminal negligence.Does he honestly believe that Sharia in this country won't try and emulate practice in Saudi Arabia? He must be mad, anyone watching Newsnight would have been horrifed by opinions of the Muslim cleric they interviewed (and he seemed moderate). Lambeth claims that the speech was well considered and researched, bah! No reference at all to the failed Canadian experiment, the only example where Sharia has been introduced to a western democracy.Well the nation has spoken and Wiiliams would do well to heed that voice. Rather than try and blame the media (which is ridiculous as the clamour began minutes after his interview with a BBC radio journalist) and he should just admit that he got it wrong. And blaming us all for not understanding what he was talking about merely exemplifies the need for plain English in his speeches.Weak and vacillating or just downright dangerous? Either way Williams is done for.