Comments on: Desmond's new theory on causes of male homosexuality http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/ PinkNews.co.uk Gay News (UK and world) from Pink News - all the gay news for the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered community in the UK and beyond- thegaynews from Pink News Thu, 26 Nov 2009 12:02:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Robert, ex-pat Brit http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24500 Robert, ex-pat Brit Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:10:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24500 Disgusted in Tunbridge Wells, you're probably right about that. There are over 500 species that have been documented as having same-sex attraction and sexual contact. How would Morris explain that I wonder?Maybe the ex-gay ministries should start looking at that and see if they can pray away the gay in the animal world. Disgusted in Tunbridge Wells, you're probably right about that. There are over 500 species that have been documented as having same-sex attraction and sexual contact. How would Morris explain that I wonder?Maybe the ex-gay ministries should start looking at that and see if they can pray away the gay in the animal world.

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: disgusted in tunbrudge wells http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24501 disgusted in tunbrudge wells Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:43:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24501 Morris is a Charlatan. Theres nothing scientific, or even socially scientific in his work. He just uses the terminology of zoology onto his own perceptions and assumptions of human behaviour. I really wouldnt give this much credence. I studied anthropology and the man isnt even seen as a populist writer he is a non entity in academic circles.The why for gay is an interesting question regardless of views here, but its also found in a huge range of animal species. Any theory that negates this, especially when purporting to be from a scientific perspective is laughable. Morris is a Charlatan. Theres nothing scientific, or even socially scientific in his work. He just uses the terminology of zoology onto his own perceptions and assumptions of human behaviour. I really wouldnt give this much credence. I studied anthropology and the man isnt even seen as a populist writer he is a non entity in academic circles.The why for gay is an interesting question regardless of views here, but its also found in a huge range of animal species. Any theory that negates this, especially when purporting to be from a scientific perspective is laughable.

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: Andy http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24502 Andy Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:42:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24502 i agree totally with all of you i think desmond morris is stuck in some single sex public school time warp...as a kid most of my close friends were girls, and that continued into my twenties...if there is anything in his theory....and i don't think there is...gay men aren't sexually attracted to women because they are too close to them and regard them a bit as desmond morris thinks straight men regard their sisters...anyway his theories and all the other "nutters" out there don't wash....as many of you have said we were born gay....i don't waste my time trying to work out why otherwsie perfectly rational and intellignet men are heterosexual...i might think it's a waste but that's there business...why can't suppossedly intelligent straight men grant us the same level or respect! how dare he come up with sucha ridiculous theory without actually interviewing 100's of gay men! i agree totally with all of you i think desmond morris is stuck in some single sex public school time warp…as a kid most of my close friends were girls, and that continued into my twenties…if there is anything in his theory….and i don't think there is…gay men aren't sexually attracted to women because they are too close to them and regard them a bit as desmond morris thinks straight men regard their sisters…anyway his theories and all the other "nutters" out there don't wash….as many of you have said we were born gay….i don't waste my time trying to work out why otherwsie perfectly rational and intellignet men are heterosexual…i might think it's a waste but that's there business…why can't suppossedly intelligent straight men grant us the same level or respect! how dare he come up with sucha ridiculous theory without actually interviewing 100's of gay men!

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: Paul http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24503 Paul Mon, 10 Dec 2007 23:57:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24503 And people actually buy his books.....amazing!!!! And people actually buy his books…..amazing!!!!

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: Olly http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24504 Olly Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:57:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24504 I'm a gay man living with 4 straight men, and a woman. Helen and I regularly gang up on the boys, who have a pack mentality, and are scared of her. In fact, they have no idea about women. I've been playing with/friends with girls since I was at nursery school, and preferred female company as a child. My closest friends are female, but I've only ever been sexually attracted to men. I guess Desmond Morris knows my life history better than I do... I'm a gay man living with 4 straight men, and a woman. Helen and I regularly gang up on the boys, who have a pack mentality, and are scared of her. In fact, they have no idea about women. I've been playing with/friends with girls since I was at nursery school, and preferred female company as a child. My closest friends are female, but I've only ever been sexually attracted to men. I guess Desmond Morris knows my life history better than I do…

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: Robert, ex-pat Brit http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24505 Robert, ex-pat Brit Mon, 10 Dec 2007 20:20:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24505 "A new book by a well-known British academic suggests that some men are gay because they don't break with other boys during childhood and retain some of their juvenile characteristics when they become adult.how offensive is this???So amongst other things now , we are to be labelled imature and childish. I WAS BORN GAYGET OVER IT"anon....I totally concur. Many straight males never break the bond with boys either, so how would that idiot explain away their gravitation towards the opposite sex? His theory just doesn't hack it, its all conjecture and has NEVER been proved, ditto with Morris'theory. Its empirical, nothing more.I think these academics should find out why there is so much homophobia, find out why the straight male in particular is so driven towards hatred of same-sex, maybe find the gene for that, it it exists which I doubt. I'm sick and tired of these straights trying to tell us who we are and why we exist. Its beyond offensive. "A new book by a well-known British academic suggests that some men are gay because they don't break with other boys during childhood and retain some of their juvenile characteristics when they become adult.how offensive is this???So amongst other things now , we are to be labelled imature and childish. I WAS BORN GAYGET OVER IT"anon….I totally concur. Many straight males never break the bond with boys either, so how would that idiot explain away their gravitation towards the opposite sex? His theory just doesn't hack it, its all conjecture and has NEVER been proved, ditto with Morris'theory. Its empirical, nothing more.I think these academics should find out why there is so much homophobia, find out why the straight male in particular is so driven towards hatred of same-sex, maybe find the gene for that, it it exists which I doubt. I'm sick and tired of these straights trying to tell us who we are and why we exist. Its beyond offensive.

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: FM http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24506 FM Mon, 10 Dec 2007 20:03:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24506 Hmm, I know this is rubbish when I know personally, from a very early age I was gay, Yes most of my friends were also male but hey isn't that society? thats not to say I have very good female friends too.Why do we have to scientifically prove who we are, heterosexuals dont, nor does the bible or other animals or anything else like that.Im happy who I am, I knew who I was from an early age, I don't want or need Science to prove that, everyone needs to grow up. Hmm, I know this is rubbish when I know personally, from a very early age I was gay, Yes most of my friends were also male but hey isn't that society? thats not to say I have very good female friends too.Why do we have to scientifically prove who we are, heterosexuals dont, nor does the bible or other animals or anything else like that.Im happy who I am, I knew who I was from an early age, I don't want or need Science to prove that, everyone needs to grow up.

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: anon http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24507 anon Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:31:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24507 A new book by a well-known British academic suggests that some men are gay because they don't break with other boys during childhood and retain some of their juvenile characteristics when they become adult. how offensive is this???So amongst other things now , we are to be labelled imature and childish. I WAS BORN GAYGET OVER IT A new book by a well-known British academic suggests that some men are gay because they don't break with other boys during childhood and retain some of their juvenile characteristics when they become adult. how offensive is this???So amongst other things now , we are to be labelled imature and childish. I WAS BORN GAYGET OVER IT

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: Robert, ex-pat Brit http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24508 Robert, ex-pat Brit Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:18:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24508 William and Rob, exactly, and thank you for your support on that. We owe society nothing for who we are nor do we have to explain why. Their apparent obsession with our sexuality along with all the religious bigots is a revelation. Its way beyond the prurient I think. Personally, I think they're envious of us for a lot of reasons. If you look at divorces wherein the husband has been caught cheating with a male, the wives usually kick them out and their reason aside from adultery is that they can't compete with another man. For them, its worse than cheating with another woman.Though I do agree with Morris on one point. I strongly believe that we are a lot more naturally talented than the average straight.I would NEVER change places with a straight. I've enjoyed a beautiful relationship with my partner for almost 15 years, better than many marriages I know. We've built a wonderful life together, both have successful careers and couldn't ask for more. The sooner staights understand that part about us, the better off they and the rest of society will be. We should never have to justify our existence to any of them. They need to clean up their own house before they start taking shots at us and coming up with these absurd theories about our orientation. They need to look closer at themselves first. William and Rob, exactly, and thank you for your support on that. We owe society nothing for who we are nor do we have to explain why. Their apparent obsession with our sexuality along with all the religious bigots is a revelation. Its way beyond the prurient I think. Personally, I think they're envious of us for a lot of reasons. If you look at divorces wherein the husband has been caught cheating with a male, the wives usually kick them out and their reason aside from adultery is that they can't compete with another man. For them, its worse than cheating with another woman.Though I do agree with Morris on one point. I strongly believe that we are a lot more naturally talented than the average straight.I would NEVER change places with a straight. I've enjoyed a beautiful relationship with my partner for almost 15 years, better than many marriages I know. We've built a wonderful life together, both have successful careers and couldn't ask for more. The sooner staights understand that part about us, the better off they and the rest of society will be. We should never have to justify our existence to any of them. They need to clean up their own house before they start taking shots at us and coming up with these absurd theories about our orientation. They need to look closer at themselves first.

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: Luke http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24509 Luke Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:10:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24509 Well everyone seems pretty much in accord on this subject.I know I was born this way and don't need some idiot telling me it was my choice of playmates. As a lot of us know, the social pressure not to be gay (or ho-mo-sexual or sodomite as the choice was) was immense. The trauma of growing up with feelings of same sex attraction explained a great many teenage suicides many years ago. Well everyone seems pretty much in accord on this subject.I know I was born this way and don't need some idiot telling me it was my choice of playmates. As a lot of us know, the social pressure not to be gay (or ho-mo-sexual or sodomite as the choice was) was immense. The trauma of growing up with feelings of same sex attraction explained a great many teenage suicides many years ago.

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: rob c http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24510 rob c Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:21:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24510 I agree with the previous Robert, why does there need to be an explanation for same-sex attraction? Why can't it just be like any other human characteristic? Why is it also that only heterosexuals try to find a reason for homosexuality? Nothing pisses me off more than having someone who doesn't even know what you feel or how you feel it giving their "theory". Mind your own business and shut the F--- up already! I agree with the previous Robert, why does there need to be an explanation for same-sex attraction? Why can't it just be like any other human characteristic? Why is it also that only heterosexuals try to find a reason for homosexuality? Nothing pisses me off more than having someone who doesn't even know what you feel or how you feel it giving their "theory". Mind your own business and shut the F— up already!

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: William - Dublin http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24511 William - Dublin Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:16:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24511 Robert, I couldn't agree more. Gay is who I am, and what I was born to be... not because someone postulates I am because some slag down the road made me cry when I was 7. Like you, if I had it over again, I would be gay again. Every time and without hesitation.And this is the bit those sad religious freak never quite grasp:- why would I, even for one second, give up my wonderful partner I have lived with for 5 years? I have a education, great friends and family, a very well paid job as a manager. Basically, why would I give up all I am, when I couldn't be happier with what I am? Robert, I couldn't agree more. Gay is who I am, and what I was born to be… not because someone postulates I am because some slag down the road made me cry when I was 7. Like you, if I had it over again, I would be gay again. Every time and without hesitation.And this is the bit those sad religious freak never quite grasp:- why would I, even for one second, give up my wonderful partner I have lived with for 5 years? I have a education, great friends and family, a very well paid job as a manager. Basically, why would I give up all I am, when I couldn't be happier with what I am?

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: Robert, ex-pat Brit http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24512 Robert, ex-pat Brit Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:15:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24512 PJW, I so agree with you. I came from a loving, ever present father and mother, neither of whom was more dominant than the other. I was like any normal young boy growing up, playing sports, doing all the things boys do and yes, had girlfriends. I just happened to have a predilection for my own sex without any influence, duress from otherse. We are what we are. Why do we always have to justify who we are, straights don't? Maybe someone should take a look at them a little closer, they're far from perfect if you look around the world and see what has been done in their name, wars, famine, torture, rape, adultery, prostitution, sex-slave trade, racial and sexual discrimination, religious bigotry, breeding for the sake of breeding, nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction, the list is endless but [they] certainly have the monopoly on all of it. PJW, I so agree with you. I came from a loving, ever present father and mother, neither of whom was more dominant than the other. I was like any normal young boy growing up, playing sports, doing all the things boys do and yes, had girlfriends. I just happened to have a predilection for my own sex without any influence, duress from otherse. We are what we are. Why do we always have to justify who we are, straights don't? Maybe someone should take a look at them a little closer, they're far from perfect if you look around the world and see what has been done in their name, wars, famine, torture, rape, adultery, prostitution, sex-slave trade, racial and sexual discrimination, religious bigotry, breeding for the sake of breeding, nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction, the list is endless but [they] certainly have the monopoly on all of it.

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: Robert, ex-pat Brit http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24513 Robert, ex-pat Brit Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:09:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24513 NH, Morris is spinning his wheels, he's trying to capitalise on his new book. They'll put forward or postulate on various things to make a fast pound. Its going nowhere. We don't need to justify our existence or really know why. We are who we are, our orientation is like eye or hair colour, predetermined in the womb. If the purpose of his book and anyone else's research for that matter is to imply that it is possible to "cure" a gay orientation, then science should find out which gene predisposes people to a straight orientation first and then find out how it can be manipulated to produce a same sex attraction. Why is it that we need to be cured in the first place? If I could be born all over again, I would still want to be who I am, a happy gay male. I have absolutely no desire to be straight, ever, no matter the hardships, stigma, bigotry, hypocrisy or injustice we suffer. NH, Morris is spinning his wheels, he's trying to capitalise on his new book. They'll put forward or postulate on various things to make a fast pound. Its going nowhere. We don't need to justify our existence or really know why. We are who we are, our orientation is like eye or hair colour, predetermined in the womb. If the purpose of his book and anyone else's research for that matter is to imply that it is possible to "cure" a gay orientation, then science should find out which gene predisposes people to a straight orientation first and then find out how it can be manipulated to produce a same sex attraction. Why is it that we need to be cured in the first place? If I could be born all over again, I would still want to be who I am, a happy gay male. I have absolutely no desire to be straight, ever, no matter the hardships, stigma, bigotry, hypocrisy or injustice we suffer.

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: William - Dublin http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24514 William - Dublin Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:08:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24514 Folks, while I have the utmost respect for the work Dr. Morris in the past, he is prone to making intelligent, but misguidedly unproven statements. This man had previous postulated that humans might have been aquatic at some stage in our past, his "proof" was that we had downward pointing nose and hair, and slightly webbed hands. While this is a clever observation, that's all it is, an observation, its not scientific proof. I have done some research on his statement on the "juvenile gay", and surprise, surprise, its all postulation, nothing but painful simplified observations and not one real piece of proof.Personally, I found his statements a little offensive. I was always gay, not because of some supposedly bad experience with women, and I'm not even going to dignify the "juvenile" statement he made. Like most of you, I know I was born gay, in fact, there is nothing I am more sure of. No, I'm afraid Dr. Morris is making statements that have no more scientific proof than the nuts with the bible do. Its just publicity to sell books to those who like to pretend they know science and use it to justify their petty hate against us. Folks, while I have the utmost respect for the work Dr. Morris in the past, he is prone to making intelligent, but misguidedly unproven statements. This man had previous postulated that humans might have been aquatic at some stage in our past, his "proof" was that we had downward pointing nose and hair, and slightly webbed hands. While this is a clever observation, that's all it is, an observation, its not scientific proof. I have done some research on his statement on the "juvenile gay", and surprise, surprise, its all postulation, nothing but painful simplified observations and not one real piece of proof.Personally, I found his statements a little offensive. I was always gay, not because of some supposedly bad experience with women, and I'm not even going to dignify the "juvenile" statement he made. Like most of you, I know I was born gay, in fact, there is nothing I am more sure of. No, I'm afraid Dr. Morris is making statements that have no more scientific proof than the nuts with the bible do. Its just publicity to sell books to those who like to pretend they know science and use it to justify their petty hate against us.

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: Robert, ex-pat Brit http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24515 Robert, ex-pat Brit Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:01:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24515 Adam, my personal belief is that sexual orientation is genetic from all that I've read. Even if there were an aggressive search for a socalled "cure", assuming we'd ever need one, it would take decades, perhaps centuries to bring that about. Science and medicine has not even been able to find a cure for congenital cancers, HIV or any other fatal illness associated with a genetic mutation. Praying it away also has never worked. Adam, my personal belief is that sexual orientation is genetic from all that I've read. Even if there were an aggressive search for a socalled "cure", assuming we'd ever need one, it would take decades, perhaps centuries to bring that about. Science and medicine has not even been able to find a cure for congenital cancers, HIV or any other fatal illness associated with a genetic mutation. Praying it away also has never worked.

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: Robert, ex-pat Brit http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24516 Robert, ex-pat Brit Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:58:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24516 Barry, Desmond is hardly qualified to publish such nonsense. Check out the link I posted on Zefrog's response. Barry, Desmond is hardly qualified to publish such nonsense. Check out the link I posted on Zefrog's response.

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: Robert, ex-pat Brit http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24517 Robert, ex-pat Brit Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:57:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24517 Zefrog, check out the attached link on what some U.S. scientists have discovered. Of course, we all know the implications of this. It could probably give ammunition to the right wing religious nutters to push for more research to discover a "cure" which if they ever could, would put the ex-gay ministries and religious bigots out of business. I'm sticking with Simon LeVay's research, to date, the most revealing and nothing to do with curing. Zefrog, check out the attached link on what some U.S. scientists have discovered. Of course, we all know the implications of this. It could probably give ammunition to the right wing religious nutters to push for more research to discover a "cure" which if they ever could, would put the ex-gay ministries and religious bigots out of business. I'm sticking with Simon LeVay's research, to date, the most revealing and nothing to do with curing.

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: evan willis http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24518 evan willis Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:46:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24518 Be very wary of those who have simplistic 'one dimentional' theories to explain complex human behavior. Morris has fallen into this trap and applied value judgements in place of hard, scientific and measurable evidence to support his theory Be very wary of those who have simplistic 'one dimentional' theories to explain complex human behavior. Morris has fallen into this trap and applied value judgements in place of hard, scientific and measurable evidence to support his theory

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]> By: PJW http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html/comment-page-1/#comment-24519 PJW Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:42:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6294.html#comment-24519 Can we assume that the same applies to gay females?Those who concentrate on male homosexuality and ignore female homosexuality tend to have an agenda against what they personally find repulsive. So, to me he is a crack-pot.What I don't understand is why so many crack-pots believe it is a lack of male role-model, lack of a father, dominating mother - if this was the case, EVERYONE in a fatherless family or dominating mother would be gay.Now, if *male* homosexuality is also caused by social boyhood sex games, does this mean gay sheep, penguins, monkeys and other animals become gay because of the same reasoning? I could accept this if animals had the same social structure as humans, but they don't!Lastly, I can see his point about remaining juvenile, but I think he's somewhat mis-guided in his understanding. Gay men tend not to have children and other committments that heterosexual men have - therefore they can afford, both financially and time wise to persuit the male desire to play!Boys will be boys - straight, bi or gay! Can we assume that the same applies to gay females?Those who concentrate on male homosexuality and ignore female homosexuality tend to have an agenda against what they personally find repulsive. So, to me he is a crack-pot.What I don't understand is why so many crack-pots believe it is a lack of male role-model, lack of a father, dominating mother – if this was the case, EVERYONE in a fatherless family or dominating mother would be gay.Now, if *male* homosexuality is also caused by social boyhood sex games, does this mean gay sheep, penguins, monkeys and other animals become gay because of the same reasoning? I could accept this if animals had the same social structure as humans, but they don't!Lastly, I can see his point about remaining juvenile, but I think he's somewhat mis-guided in his understanding. Gay men tend not to have children and other committments that heterosexual men have – therefore they can afford, both financially and time wise to persuit the male desire to play!Boys will be boys – straight, bi or gay!

(Report comment to the moderator)

]]>