I think biphobia is far worse than homophobia, because more people make bisexuality invisibility, there is very little bisexual support, and it's quite socially acceptable for both homo- and hetero-sexuals to make jokes about us "half gays" and "undecisives".

I've been in a loving relationship with a women, we had a child together and seperated with some difficulty. I've had another year long relationship with a woman that I cared deeply for and enjoyed the sexual part of our relationship deeply. I also find men sexually stimulating and in every encounter I've had with a man I've been very satisfied, theres no denial either way. I would have had relationships with men if there wasn't this stigma with Bisexuals being indenial and with being ploygamistic, I mean, I never once during my relationships cheated on them with the same or opposite sex.

This kind of rambled on, all I came on to say was Good for Duncan and hope it helps more people that have felt forced to be one or the other to be more accepting and to accept themselves.

(Report comment to the moderator)

(Report comment to the moderator)

Also, why do some gay people assume that bi means unfaithful? I know lots of gay people and straight people who have cheated on their partners and lots who are faithful – it is the same with bi people. The same goes with polyamory – why assume that bi people are more likely to be into multiple partners than gay or straight people?

It saddens me when bi friends tell me they have been excluded from support groups or gay rights groups when they have come out as bi.

What I am getting at is this – gay people have fought long and hard to be accepted by straight people. Gay people still have to fight prejudice and ignorance and challenge misconceptions that many straight people have about gay relationships. Why then do some gay people not accept bi people? Why do some gay people cling on to misconceptions and prejudices about bi people despite evidence (from bi people) to the contrary? How can victims of prejudice turn that same prejudice against another group of similar people?

(Report comment to the moderator)

OK the 2 examples you use are different but neither is very serious and the person holding those prejudices is 100% entitled to hold them.

It only becomes a problem if I start saying:

"I've dated men from Devon in the past and they've all suffered from chronic flatulence and I believe these things are connected. And as a reult I am not going to offer the job vacancy / the rental apartment / serve a drink in the bar to that person because they are from Devon"

Prejudice should be challenged by all means. But in and of themselves they are harmless so long as you are aware of them and don't let them influence your judgement on other issues.

PS Sorry Devon readers. I am sure you are wonderful, wonderful people

(Report comment to the moderator)

It isn't really. It's just a preference.

Saying "I won't date a man from Devon because I don't like the accent" is very different from saying "I won't date a man from Devon because I've dated men from Devon in the past and they've all suffered from chronic flatulence and I believe these things are connected".

I completely agree with you that we all have prejudices. What I am saying is that I believe prejudices should be challenged.

"That is why religion cannot be allowed to pervert our schools and political and legal systems."

I am with you on that 100%.

(Report comment to the moderator)

But so long as you are aware that it is a prejudice and make sure that you don't discriminate against someone as a result of the prejudice then it is harmless.

Kicking someone to death as a result of their race; sexual orientation, sex etc is not a prejudice. It is a criminal act inspired by hatred of someone. Hatred is much stronger than prejudice.

Prejudice in and of itself is harmless so long as you are aware that the prejudice exists and that you make an effort to ensure that you don't discriminate against someone as a result of a prejudice.

Therefore if I choose not to have a relationship with bi man or a left handed man then that is entirely harmless just so long as I do not refuse to serve a bi or left handed man a drink in a bar if I work there; or if I refuse to rent a bi or left-handed man an apartment.

It is unrealistic snd impossible to expect that everyone will be tolerant and accepting of every difference. So long as the laws and courts and governments are agreed that discrimination is unacceptable then we'll all be OK. That is why religion cannot be allowed to pervert our schools and political and legal systems.

(Report comment to the moderator)

Agreed. I like to challenge those prejudices. I hope you do too.

"It is harmless so long as you do not let the prejudice cloud your judgement in other areas."

I think we will have to agree to disagree here. I believe that prejudice is the reason people still get kicked to death.

(Report comment to the moderator)

So long as I don't try to impinge on the legal or civil rights of black, Asian, bi, blind, left-handed etc men or women and don't discriminate against them in my job them then I am entirely free to discriminate how I please in terms of who I shag.

I do not like the Devon accent. That is a prejudice. But as a prejudice it is entirely harmless so long as I don't refuse to employ someone because they have all the necessary qualifications but also a Devon accent. Everyone has a prejudice of 1 sort or another. That's human nature. It is harmless so long as you do not let the prejudice cloud your judgement in other areas. Therefore if I refuse to get involved on a deeper level than casual sex with a bi man – well no one is getting hurt therefore there's nothing wrong with it.

If I refuse to rent an apartment to a bi man based on his bisexuality that is a different matter.

(Report comment to the moderator)

So if you have a handful of relationships with, say, black men who cheat on you, it is perfectly acceptable for you to conclude that all black men are untrustworthy and worthy of no more than a quick fuck.

Righto. *rolls eyes*

(Report comment to the moderator)

I do recognise this and that's why I refuse to date bi men any more. I'll have sex with them if they're hot and single for sure but that's the extent of it. Maybe that's harsh but the choice of sexual partner one takes is the one area where discrimination is entirely acceptable.

(Report comment to the moderator)

In response to point 4: it is a *very* different argument. Choice and change are not the same thing. Some people's sexuality changes over the course of their life. Sometimes multiple times. It doesn't mean that they choose it – it can be very painful. To use your words, just because you don't like to hear this does not make it false.

Studies on the subject have concluded that sexual orientation is influenced by multiple factors, biological and environmental. It seems glaringly obvious to me that we are gay/bi for different reasons. What matters is that nobody has the right to dictate how we should live our lives.

(Report comment to the moderator)

2. when I say someone is switching their bisexuality on or off I mean they are switching from being openly bi to being closeted about their orientation as it suits them. You may deny the existence of these people but believe me there are plenty of them.

3. Good for you. Perhaps it is different for bi men but I have known many bi men who are being dishonest to their wives and girlfriends about their orientation and who treat their same sex partners like crap. Just because you don't like to hear this does not make it false.

4. How many people do you know who have gone from 'gay to straight'. That is not very different from the argument used by religious weirdoes to 'cure' homosexuality. If you know of these people then perhaps they are the reason why gay people are so distrustful of bisexuals as these are the ones who are trotted out by the religious as evidence of how our sexuality can be 'changed'

5. Because I find it highly unusual that my 'bi' female friends only ever seem to be bi in front of straight guys in straight bars. They seem to forget their bisexuality in lesbian bars.

You make some valid points but they do not invalidate the points I have made.

(Report comment to the moderator)

1. I refuse to use the unhelpful words 'homophobia' and 'biphobia' – bigotry is bigotry. Bisexual people in same-sex relationships face the same prejudices as gay people, and then all the typical prejudice you have just displayed on top of that.

2. I have absolutely no idea what you mean by 'switching bisexuality on and off' but I can assure you that my sexuality is no more a matter of choice than yours is.

3. I am out as bi to my family, partner, friends and colleagues. I have had relationships with men and with women and have always been honest about it. I could introduce you to several hundred similar people. I want you to understand that your attitude is the reason that bi people find it difficult to come out.

3. I don't know any bi people who would argue that bisexuality is never a transitioning phase. Some of my best friens have been in that position (straight to gay, and gay to straight). Some of them they were coming to terms with their sexuality as it had actually been all along; some of them felt their preference had shifted. It is not your place to play guess-the-label – how people identify is none of your business.

4. Many bi people are irritated by the way bisexuality is portrayed in the media, which has given rise to the fetishisation of same-sex activity between girls – but again, it's not our place to say who has a genuine attraction and who doesn't. What do you think gives you the right to 'test' your bi female friends?

(Report comment to the moderator)

Whether bi people want to accept it or not it is a fact that bisexual people can switch their bisexuality on and off when it is convenient for them. Gay people do not have that choice and I can fully understand why they find this irritating.

I am gay – I am out to my family; partner; friends; colleagues; my partner's family etc. I expect a bi person in an opposite sex relationship to be out to the same extent. That is often not the case.

It is also a fact that gay people pretend to be bi to 'test the water' before coming out as gay. That is a reality and bi people are being incredibly naive if they can't acknowledge this phenomenon and realise that it causes people to distrust the idea of bisexuality.

And don't even start me on those annoying straight girls who pretend to be bi to attract guys but who recoil at the idea of oral sex with another woman (that's my test for my straight female friends who claim to be bi – I ask them if they can picture having oral sex with another woman)

(Report comment to the moderator)

(Report comment to the moderator)

Will it be a Bi-Carriage Clock, with both analogue and digital faces?

Sorry! Couldn't resist!

(Report comment to the moderator)

BTW, for condemning bi-bashing, you get 100 bi points. If you reach 1,000 I will send you a carriage clock.

(Report comment to the moderator)

For condemning bi-bashing, you get 100 bi points. If you get to 1000, I'll send you a carriage clock.

(Report comment to the moderator)

(Report comment to the moderator)

(Report comment to the moderator)