Comments on: Preview: Newsnight Review to examine gay stereotyping in television

By: Eddy

Eddy — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 09:34:24 +0000

Well, judging by the above reports, this Newsnight "special" clearly did not shake the ground! I've downloaded it but am wondering if it is even worth spending time watching it.

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By: Lezabella

Lezabella — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:39:47 +0000

"Friday night late, june 10th.
I watched the prog. The did not say anything I had'nt heard many times before. There was one Lesbian writer and three gay men. A bit uneven but the BeeB is like that. They still think a womans place is at the kitchen sink!"

Well said Brian my angel!

There aren't enough lesbians on the telly for us to even BE stereotyped!

We're invisible, and 'gay' means just that- 'gay', not 'gay woman/lesbian' apparently.

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By: Eddy

Eddy — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 08:38:06 +0000

Ivan, #29, re. "I think Boy George might have had the last word on the camp/straight-acting debate when he said of those who describe themselves as straight-acting that there was nothing straight-acting about having a cock in your mouth", this is nothing more than a superficial statement based on a confusion of logic and register. Whether it's amusing or yet another example of unthinking camp bitchiness is debatable. And I don't think you should give "Boy George" the last word on any discussion worthy of serious debate. Boy George has no credentials entitling him to enter into serious intellectual discussion of anything.

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By: flapjack

flapjack — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 08:29:33 +0000

Ivan – I see what you mean… straight acting is a clunky phrase and carries with it the insinuation that we're trying to be something we're not.
As far as I'm concerned what marks me out as a gay man is simply that I'm a guy who likes guys. That's the only part that should count. I think for those who don't go the camp route there's this unspoken rule that we ought to buy into all the camp trimmings, and that if we don't we've sold out to the straight community somehow.
That's the only bit I object to. Why do I have to be labeled a 'self-loathing queen' just because I don't have a flamboyant wardrobe or own every musical Judy Garland ever made on DVD? Gay men come in every stripe from butch to cross-dressing, and I resent being forced into a pidgeonhole of someone else's making. I'm out and proud, end of discussion.
I'd prefer an alternative description other than the loaded term "straight acting" but there aren't that many terms to choose from which don't sound pejorative.

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By: Ivan

Ivan — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:49:38 +0000

I think Boy George might have had the last word on the camp/straight-acting debate when he said of those who describe themselves as straight-acting that there was nothing straight-acting about having a cock in your mouth.

Rude, but amusing.

@Will the Scouser

You make a good point. Some years a go a VW Golf advert was canned on account of it portraying a nice-looking middle-class twenty-something gay couple going through their morning getting up, having brekky and going off-to-work routine.

It was the sheer ordinaryness that people found so frightening.

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By: Will the Scouser

Will the Scouser — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:29:41 +0000

I know plenty of gay men who are camp and plenty who aren't. But the camp ones are nothing like the caricatures portrayed by John Inman, Larry Grayson and Dick Emery. Those caricatures were deliberately designed to make gay men look ridiculous, and that's why I objected to them and still do. I think it's noteworthy that that bitch Mary Whitehouse had no objection to those caricatures, but was absolutely enraged by Colin and Barry on "Eastenders".

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By: Codex

Codex — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 10:26:05 +0000

To suggest the BBC is discriminatory is frankly absurd. It is the most PC indoctrinated institution in the UK today, with its quota of gays – itself a diverse mix of masculine and feminine – spread evenly throughout its output. I am sure the Clipboard Charlies at BBC Centre are appalled at the lack of gratitude we are showing at their efforts to make us visible within all their popular output!

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By: Codex

Codex — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 10:19:20 +0000

Ooh, get her!

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By: Eddy

Eddy — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 09:57:02 +0000

Princess Dot #22: "Camp is what we do better than anyone else".

You are limiting yourself, Princess. There are many many other things you can do with your energy and creativity and you can do them as well as any heterosexual – except screwing people of the opposite sex, of course! You'll never do that as authentically as a heterosexual, even if you're a brilliant actor.

I think you should also meditate upon the fact that extraordinary and superlative camp performances have been recorded on film and tape by heterosexual actors. Do some research! Think about it. Such camp performances, performed by heterosexuals, way outshine those of your camp friends down the pub on a Saturday night.

Everyday camp is extremely easy to do. It's a negative self-diminishing behaviour that does not involve real imagination or creativity. Yes, I know that those costumes take a lot of thinking about, as well as endless hours slaving over a sewing machine, and lip-synching to Shirley Bassey can be done very convincingly provided you practise enough, but this is not first-class use of one's imagination and creativity!

HOWEVER, if YOU wish to behave like an exaggeration of femininity then FINE! If that's how you wish to spend your precious life, then do so, and do it well! Drag Queens provide a lot of colour when they are performing. And some gay men very much enjoy listening to another gay men holding forth in full camposity. It's all part of life's rich diversity. It is not to be ruled out.

But don't continue believing that every gay man is at heart a screaming queen! The truth is far from it!

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By: Bentham

Bentham — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 21:50:28 +0000

Eddy (19):

Thank you so much for looking up John Corvino. I couldn't believe it when I saw his post on PinkNews (Texas-gay kiss-restauraunt-police).

Stonewall UK has taken such a strange turn compared to what is happening in America. Who could attempt to explain it?

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By: Princess Dot

Princess Dot — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:36:19 +0000

And wot's wrong with being a screamer? We are gay men! Camp is what we do better than anyone else and I, for one, am what I damn well am! I put it to those of you in denial that most gay men do in fact veer towards the camp end of the spectrum that you have internalized your homophobia by building a plate of masculinized armour around your pink hearts and are in deep denial about your true nature. Just be yourselves, I say, mince don't swagger, and stop straining your vocal chords with your "straight-acting" charade. Just live and let live. Now, where did I leave my pink feather boa…

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By: Abi1975

Abi1975 — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 12:59:15 +0000

As ever the BBC just did a box ticking exercise with the off the shelf guests that would never go against the BBC as pay checks depend on it.

I would love to see a program about the Stonewall riots and the disturbances in the tenderloin in San Francisco that preceded it.

But the BBC do not really want to tell our story. As far as they are concerned we appeared in the 80's and have no history.

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By: John K

John K — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 10:42:41 +0000

@Brian Burton Thread 17

I had similar feelings too about the lack of gender parity . . . I would also have liked another women on the discussion panel.

As you mentioned with regards the discussion . . . nothing we had not heard many times before. . . and so a little disapointing

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By: Eddy

Eddy — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 09:50:40 +0000

Bentham, #14, many thanks for introducing me to John Corvino! Everyone, his website is worth a visit
johncorvino.com/default.htm

But do enjoy the trailer for his DVD at:
Click here for John Corvino giving an entertaining lecture

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By: Dave

Dave — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 09:38:45 +0000

It would have been nice to see some discussion of Friday Night with Jonathan Ross, and the BBC's anti-political-correctness policy, which is supported by the Director-general.

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By: Brian Burton

Brian Burton — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 08:04:02 +0000

Friday night late, june 10th.
I watched the prog. The did not say anything I had'nt heard many times before. There was one Lesbian writer and three gay men. A bit uneven but the BeeB is like that. They still think a womans place is at the kitchen sink!

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By: flapjack

flapjack — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 07:41:03 +0000

I think I'm in agreement with Simon on this one. I don't deny that many gay men are camp and I don't hold it against them, but until relatively recently you wouldn't have known there was any alternative gay identity. I was a big fan of "6 Feet Under" when it first came out, as it was the first gay relationship I'd seen on the box which didn't play to all the stereotypes.
I was brought up in the era of Larry Grayson and John Inman, and I simply didn't relate to that. For me it shouldn't be a culture war between camp and straight-acting gay personality types, I just want a gay role model I can relate to.

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By: Craig

Craig — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 00:04:57 +0000

Newsnight Review was on BBC 2 at 11:00 pm (Fri, 10 Jul) and on BBC iplayer soon after.

It’s now 1 AM and “any” normal Newsnight program “would” have been on “very” soon after!!! This program is on BBC2 and all of the guests have worked for the BBC!

Of course they are going to want to keep the BBC discriminating! This is a sick and twisted conspiracy to try and convince the gay community that it's OK to discriminate towards themselves!

Why is Peter Tatchell or Ben Summerskill not on the show, because they would tell the public the truth?

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By: Codex

Codex — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:32:10 +0000

Craig writes: "Why is Peter Tachell or Ben Sommerskill not on the show, because they would tell the public the truth."

The truth abut what exactly? That gay men do in fact tend to be camp? Why all the denial? Is it to do with your own internalized homophobia and the fact that you cannot accept how many gay men are – yourself included possibly? You could always rebel against your nature of course, stuff yourself full of steroids and join the cult of masculinity that has rendered so many scene Marys into aggressive, "straight-acting", uptight drones. I know which I prefer to be, dear. Clue: just be yourself and live and let live.

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By: Bentham

Bentham — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:01:46 +0000

There's lots of hope if we look at the right places.

For example, do a web search for JOHN CORVINO, and them say hello to him on today's thread about the Texan gay couple who were thrown out of a reatauruant for kissing in public.

John Corvino is here with us today! And there's nothing campy about him, trust me.

He's also a doll, but that's just me.

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