please feel free to be as vocal on this as you have been on all the other comments …

if you are happy with your lifestyle .. great .. but who are you to tell me or anyone else that i have change to live the same lifestyle as yours wheather i want to or not .. ?? how happy would you be if i told you that the way you live your life was not correct and you have to change it to one that i chose for you ??

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I think 'cruising' is foul if it's in a public place, but why is there not an anti-'dogging' site against straight people too?"

So yes I'm against people having sex in public, there's no need, atall.

And you know what 'otherone', I'm not talking about 'cruising' if it is genuinely in a remote pace in the middle of nowhere-that doesn't bother me one iota.

I'm talking about parks where people actually go.

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I do find it quite ironic that the very men "outraged" at having their photos put on one website (fully clothed) are more than happy to flaunt themselves in on other websites sporting ladies underwear!

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Nikolas- thankyou for your explanation. I kind of had an idea of what you would say and you have just confirmed it. I do have sympathy for some of these men but I still think other ways would be better…..even for their own bloody safety! "I sometimes wish that those queers who find it hard to tolerate the queerer aspects of queerdom would simply shrug their shoulders and move on, instead of adding their voices to the barrage of straight condemnation." Ok I also see your point here, but my issue is in a public place, I have actually drove to a beauty spot in Liverpool to watch the sun set over the Mersey with my girlfriend only to see random men pull up right next to us, stare at us (in a whole empty park!) and flash their lights at us. We drove straight away! I later found it was a 'dogging site'. That sort of thing is what annoys me – if it disrupts other people, or in our case intimidates people. I'm now aware this was a 'dogging' spot but I see 'dogging' and 'cruising' in the same way.

otherone/half/twopintsandahalf/-

"lights off to have sex lifestyle" – Says who exactly? Why are you making that assumption? You don't know me, my girlfriend or our sexual habits so I'd appreciate it if you don't say stupid things like that.

"Well just go to another park" – Why the hell should I??? One of my favourite parks in Liverpool, where I spent a lot of time playing as a kid, Botanic Gardens, is now nicknamed 'Bummer's Woods' because it's a crusing ground. It's a well-known public park, not some field in the middle of bloody nowhere!

"I don't want to see people of 'the same sex' kissing therefore I can't go to Queer pubs therefore " – that's not 'turning it on it's head', that's manipulating and twisting the situation into something completely different, people kissing, and people having sex are two different things. People of the same-sex kissing doesn't bother me, I'm a lesbian and do a hell of a lot of it myself. That 'comparison' was extremely flawed.

Calling you a 'LESBOPHOBE' was a joke, maybe you should also try 'humour' eh sweetcheeks?

"does not mean I'd stop someone going to a 'Swinger's' party"- Neither do I. Listen carefully, I don't know how many times I have to say this – I don't care what people do, as long as it's in private. Get it? It's about dignity and respect. A public park is not somewhere to go to have sex, unless you're a really disadvantaged person as Nikolas stated (which they all aren't), and even then, a public park full of people wouldn't be right. For them or the other people.

I'm not tyring to force my viewpoint on others, I am simply arguing my corner, as you have been the whole time.

"Tell me Leas: how much of your time is given over to Activism? I am an activist for Lesbian Rights, Feminism, Trans Rights" – It's nice that you care but I'm really not getting into a 'my gay dick's bigger than your gay dick' argument. Any work I do is not solely homosexual-related. I care about a lot of things. Feminism is also a cause I favour, along with animal rights and equal rights for women in poorer countries (which is extremely hard, when many of these mainly African countries have Islam as their religion)

Out of curiosity what sort of activism do you do?

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And as a tax-payer who has paid for access to my local park why should I be told I can't go there with my child and I have to go and find another one because people want to use it for dogging or crusing or whatever?

Why not just let people pay to go into fenced off cruising areas? A small fee would cover litter picking and provision of free condoms and lube…

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Oh wait a minute – THAT'S WHAT YOU SAID.

Let me put this point to you once more: you may want a monogomis, lights off to have sex lifestyle but some people do not and it is not your place to tell them they can't. You an Les make so much of Children seeing people having sex but the problem is that Cruising Grounds are well known, people don't take children there because they know they're cruising grounds. Problem number one solved…

Oh but I can't take little Jenny/ Johnie to the park because men are having sex! Well just go to another park. Thias argument can be trurned on it's head as follows: I don't want to see people of 'the same sex' kissing therefore I can't go to Queer pubs therefore my freedom to go to a pub which happens to be Queer is limited therefore there should be no Queer pubs. Problem number two solved…

Littering is always bad and I most defenarly do not condon that. Problem number three solved…

Now Les: you're a monogomis Dyke as I am but just because I olny want to have sex with one person and onmly want to do it in private does not mean I'd stop someone going to a 'Swinger's' party. Likewise the idea that because I resist you forcing your morality on others (the 'forcing your sexuality down other people's throats' line – try to understand humour my dear) does not mean I'm 'Lesbianphobic' or 'Androcentred.' Tell me Leas: how much of your time is given over to Activism? I am an activist for Lesbian Rights, Feminism, Trans Rights…and if there's one thing I've learned it's not to try to force my viewpoints on others. This, alas, is something you are unable to understand.

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Again, I can only judge by the cross-section of people I observed while touring these places with a social worker, decades ago. But many of the cruisers were men who would normally identify as "straight" in other contexts of their lives. Others were marginal gays excluded from the "scene" by their lack of money, or their age, and/or poor personal presentation or social skills. But there were also some "ordinary" gay men, who would also been seen in the nightclubs etc. It's a rich tapestry.

I think Matt and theotherone have to accept that in regard to most major values and lifestyle decisions, most gays and lesbians really do just want to "ape the hets". And there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. Most of us are brought up in conservative hetero households and we fairly quickly end up wanting what our parents wanted in life. For many gays, accommodating their sexuality really does just mean substituting same sex for the other, and then leading the nearest approximation of a straight lifestyle they can achieve.

But it would be wrong to pretend that this attitude alone can be expected to inform a homo sociopolitical perspective, with all of the responsibilities of a "social umbrella" embracing the diversity of homosexualities out there, some of which are far removed from hetero norms. I sometimes wish that those queers who find it hard to tolerate the queerer aspects of queerdom would simply shrug their shoulders and move on, instead of adding their voices to the barrage of straight condemnation.

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I didn't mean any harm in what I said, I just dont think people having sex in a public place where people or children may go is right or good.

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David Beckham is celebrating; "43 days, 43 days!" he shouts happilly.

Posh asks him why hes celebrating.
He answers "Well babe, I've done this jigsaw in only 43 days."

"And that's good?" asks Posh.
"You bet " says David."It says 3 to 6 years on the box."

Hmm, is that tumbleweed I see rolling around infront of me?!

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To pick up on thetherone's example, I would say that smelling ethnic cooking is hardly going to be disturbing for a child, but being confronted by two adults having sex is not something you would want to confront them with.

Persoanlly I feel opporessed and upset by Theotherone and Matt telling me that as a gay man I have to act in a certain way. What about my freedom to do as I please? I am a married gay man in a decade-long monogamous relationship and I REALLY object to being called heteronormative. It is wrong to say that straight people should behave in one way and gay people in another. I am not aping heterosexuality by being in love with my husband and not wanting to have sex with other people.

People should be able to form the relationships they are happy with without being forced into a particular mould. Also, as Lezabella intimated, it is a fairly androcentric thing to say, as you don't really get lesbians cruising etc. I fully support anyone's rights to be single, promiscuous, polyamorous, to be in an open relationship, or whatever situation they want to be in, but heterosexuals DO NOT have the monopoly on monogamy.

True, some people, for whatever reason, might feel the need to use cruising grounds. There's nothing wrong or illegal with going somewhere to meet people- but take the sex private, if people really have no where else to go they can find somewhere where they are confident they will not be seen, and don't leave litter- that's gross, environmentally irresponsible and uglifies nature.

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I'm talking about parks where people actually go.

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Ha ha you're a fucking diamond you are, I didn't even say that you bell.

And you're a reactionary who obviously cannot read properly. If you'd read anything I've said you would understand what I mean.

Anyone who doesn't agree with you is a 'homophobe', oh give it a
rest!

"The idea of gay porn lieing round, children seing Queer people having sex and so on and so forth…"

I don't want that to happen…..your point is what exactly? How is that bad?

Whether I sleep around or not is none of your business, but even if I didn't, how is that 'shoving my sexuality in other people's faces'? That's an oxymoron if ever I've heard one!

You just don't make any sense: 'HOMOPHYOBE'- you can't even spell, I think you need to calm yourself

You know what I think, I think you're a LESBOPHOBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I pointed ouyt that your posts engage in the language of the moral panic, the language of the homophobe.

The idea of gay porn lieing round, children seing Queer people having sex and so on and so forth…

HOMOPHYOBE!

You proved it with your last post: 'I'm so moral and these people are filthy dogs!' I don't care if you sleep with women, men or dogs you're STILL a homophobe.

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I've already stated that 'dogging' sites are just as bad. There's just no need to have sex in a public place and if you can tell me why, be my guest!

Crusing spots/dogging sites DO make areas 'no go areas' as I for one do not want to bump into people having sex whilst I'm walking my dog or playing in the park with my neices and nephews. Hence I don't go there, not through my own choice, but because people have ruined it, gay or straight, by deciding to have sex there. To throw the label 'homophobe' at me, a lesbian, because I think it's rude for people, gay or straight, to specifically go to a PUBLIC PLACE to shag is ridiculous, boring, predictable, really unimaginative and it doesn't make sense.

"'It is time we stopped trying to "heterosexualise" homosexuality by aping false heterosexual identities (like the monogamous, christian, married couple) and supported a more rounded view of sexuality that, while including monogamy, also accepts the legitimacy of polygamy and polyamory and other sexual expression."

Go for it, but as someone who is in a loving reltionship, and who is friends with many gay people who are in the same boat; this will not and does not represent me or my habits. And I think you'll find many other lesbians would object to your statement aswell since lesbians traditionally fall in love too easily and have long-term relationships a lot of the time, the lesbian T-Shirt "28 days later…..she moved in" explains this perfectly. People therefore shouldn't be labelled, the issue here is not whether gays sleep around it's about sex in a public place which is against the law anyway.

Maybe by 'homosexuals' you actually mean gay men? As I do not know any lesbians who 'cruise' in park bushes or any who have been arrested for doing so. It's not a part of 'lesbian culture' to my knowledge.

Maybe it's a homosexual male thing I'll never understand? And if anyone can explain to me WHY this still happens in this day and age then please, go ahead!

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