Comments on: Milk screenwriter Dustin Lance Black apologises for leaked unprotected gay sex photos http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/ PinkNews.co.uk Gay News (UK and world) from Pink News - all the gay news for the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered community in the UK and beyond- thegaynews from Pink News Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:52:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Monkeychops http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58309 Monkeychops Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:38:33 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58309 Already a huge fan of the NSS, it’s the only way we can be on any kind of level playing field. Check out the Telegraph today and you’ll see a Dr Dena Coleman, an Orthodox Jew, who is suing her neighbours over an automatic light in the stairwell of their apartment block because it discriminates her right to darkness on the Sabbath (even though it’s outside her flat). Apparently, even electric light counts (I’m sure people foresaw that when writing these codes of conduct for Jewish society all those years ago!). Even though most other residents agree that it’s good for saving energy and gave longer life to bulbs (much more socially responsible and green). It’s not as if someone was shoving pigs trotters down their throats and expecting them to like it. It’s light. Why not having light on a Friday makes any difference to not having it on any other day of the week or why light should even be shunned at all, I have no idea. It’s these arbitrary practices with no tangible benefit or even a rationale being considered “human rights” simply because they are part of an archaic way of life with no more common sense than voodoo, that turns people against faiths. And I’m one of those turned off by it. How do you engage in a debate with someone who claims this kind of thing? I have a Jewish friend who cannot eat off my crockery because I like a good a bit of gammon steak from time to time and hence it is “contaminated”. Contaminated by the spirit of a pig’s thigh, now there’s a new one. Though, she sees no problem with clubbing under neon electric lights on a Friday night when she is supposed to be at home sat in darkness. She isn’t a bad person in any other way, but she is a typical example of how hypocritical and irrational religions can be. Even she doesn’t know why she does half the things she does. Guess there are stranger things than gay pride after all ;) Already a huge fan of the NSS, it’s the only way we can be on any kind of level playing field. Check out the Telegraph today and you’ll see a Dr Dena Coleman, an Orthodox Jew, who is suing her neighbours over an automatic light in the stairwell of their apartment block because it discriminates her right to darkness on the Sabbath (even though it’s outside her flat). Apparently, even electric light counts (I’m sure people foresaw that when writing these codes of conduct for Jewish society all those years ago!). Even though most other residents agree that it’s good for saving energy and gave longer life to bulbs (much more socially responsible and green). It’s not as if someone was shoving pigs trotters down their throats and expecting them to like it. It’s light. Why not having light on a Friday makes any difference to not having it on any other day of the week or why light should even be shunned at all, I have no idea. It’s these arbitrary practices with no tangible benefit or even a rationale being considered “human rights” simply because they are part of an archaic way of life with no more common sense than voodoo, that turns people against faiths. And I’m one of those turned off by it. How do you engage in a debate with someone who claims this kind of thing? I have a Jewish friend who cannot eat off my crockery because I like a good a bit of gammon steak from time to time and hence it is “contaminated”. Contaminated by the spirit of a pig’s thigh, now there’s a new one. Though, she sees no problem with clubbing under neon electric lights on a Friday night when she is supposed to be at home sat in darkness. She isn’t a bad person in any other way, but she is a typical example of how hypocritical and irrational religions can be. Even she doesn’t know why she does half the things she does.

Guess there are stranger things than gay pride after all ;)

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]]> By: TomPaine http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58299 TomPaine Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:35:25 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58299 Well, of course I've been to lots of canal parades in Amsterdam. Far more inclusive. Even government ministers hijack the event nowadays. It's the first weekend of August. PS Even if you're not around, you should consider supporting the National Secular Society, or the extremely courageous Maryam Namazie. The video of her last conference can be seen on her website. I strongly recommend you see some of that. Well, of course I've been to lots of canal parades in Amsterdam. Far more inclusive. Even government ministers hijack the event nowadays. It's the first weekend of August. PS Even if you're not around, you should consider supporting the National Secular Society, or the extremely courageous Maryam Namazie. The video of her last conference can be seen on her website. I strongly recommend you see some of that.

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]]> By: Monkeychops http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58298 Monkeychops Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:55:57 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58298 PS Thanks for the offer of coming along in November, but I'm not going to be around, I'll be off working in a far-off land. I'd wholeheartedly support the abolition of faith schools, I can't see how Tony Blair thought they woud ever be good for social cohesion. PS Thanks for the offer of coming along in November, but I'm not going to be around, I'll be off working in a far-off land. I'd wholeheartedly support the abolition of faith schools, I can't see how Tony Blair thought they woud ever be good for social cohesion.

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]]> By: Monkeychops http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58297 Monkeychops Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:54:08 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58297 TomPaine - I think we are harmed by this "perversion". I wouldn't call it perversion, but as I said, they all looked like pervs. Very generalising of course, but a straight man dressed and behaving similarly would be called a perv as well. It's not going to indoctrinate kids, make them gay or anhthing ludicrous like that. But it re-inforces the stereotypes people have of us. Negative stereotypes to be more precise. And thus our image and reputation as a whole is then tarnished. We aren't really known for anything else. Admittedly, you have a point on the other groups that join in - police, secular Muslim groups etc. And I'm glad they are there to water down the intensity of the sex show. Having said that, a certain percentage of the crowd also seem to be in bondage gear. I'll aslo admit that it is to Britain's credit that it has such a wide range of groups taking part. Have you been to one anywhere else on the continent? France was just hideously over the top in terms of its sexual focus and no other groups joining in (other than human rights groups, but no-one outside "the field"). Estonia, well, they didn't really go that far because th Russian minority thrusting placards and spouting hate through megaphones being held back by the police would probably have charged at them. Another example of where minorities don't actually get on at all. That was quite a sight, though fair play to the police, they did a good job. And, yes, you are right again, there is definitely more to life than gay pride. I just wish the gay media would see it that way...... TomPaine – I think we are harmed by this "perversion". I wouldn't call it perversion, but as I said, they all looked like pervs. Very generalising of course, but a straight man dressed and behaving similarly would be called a perv as well. It's not going to indoctrinate kids, make them gay or anhthing ludicrous like that. But it re-inforces the stereotypes people have of us. Negative stereotypes to be more precise. And thus our image and reputation as a whole is then tarnished. We aren't really known for anything else. Admittedly, you have a point on the other groups that join in – police, secular Muslim groups etc. And I'm glad they are there to water down the intensity of the sex show. Having said that, a certain percentage of the crowd also seem to be in bondage gear. I'll aslo admit that it is to Britain's credit that it has such a wide range of groups taking part. Have you been to one anywhere else on the continent? France was just hideously over the top in terms of its sexual focus and no other groups joining in (other than human rights groups, but no-one outside "the field"). Estonia, well, they didn't really go that far because th Russian minority thrusting placards and spouting hate through megaphones being held back by the police would probably have charged at them. Another example of where minorities don't actually get on at all. That was quite a sight, though fair play to the police, they did a good job.

And, yes, you are right again, there is definitely more to life than gay pride. I just wish the gay media would see it that way……

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]]> By: RobN http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58263 RobN Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:01:10 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58263 Valerio: Touché, but let me quantify that. I wouldn't trust <i>any</i> man, it's just the straight ones wouldn't let me shag them. Valerio: Touché, but let me quantify that. I wouldn't trust any man, it's just the straight ones wouldn't let me shag them.

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]]> By: TomPaine http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58262 TomPaine Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:56:56 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58262 Monkey - who was harmed or oppressed by this 'perversion'? until you can answer that, it's not a moral issue. If people condemn harmless actions, yes, I will call them homophobic pricks, who should mind their own f**king business. There is no compulsion in any of this. Some things indeed look crass. I have to say, in London at least, I did not see such a massive procession - tsunami - of 'perversion'. Neither did the hundreds of armed forces, emergency services, religious floats get drowned out. I might add, I would like to see more politics in pride. Especially in the current moral relativist climate. It is wonderful to see more involvement from ethnic communities. I hope to see more focus on showing solidarity with those in communities or areas of the world where it's fine to bully, oppress and kill gays. (especially wonderful to see Iran awakening, right now). And by the way, you were suggesting gay people should join up with religious communities. It's already happening. Well come along in November - I'll be showing solidarity again with the Secular muslims and the Committe of Ex-muslims, when they call for the protection of children against Sharia-fascism and faith schools. These are 2 groups more gay people should be getting involved with. Still, there's more to life than gay pride, which after all, is just a festival. Monkey – who was harmed or oppressed by this 'perversion'? until you can answer that, it's not a moral issue. If people condemn harmless actions, yes, I will call them homophobic pricks, who should mind their own f**king business.

There is no compulsion in any of this. Some things indeed look crass. I have to say, in London at least, I did not see such a massive procession – tsunami – of 'perversion'. Neither did the hundreds of armed forces, emergency services, religious floats get drowned out.

I might add, I would like to see more politics in pride. Especially in the current moral relativist climate. It is wonderful to see more involvement from ethnic communities. I hope to see more focus on showing solidarity with those in communities or areas of the world where it's fine to bully, oppress and kill gays. (especially wonderful to see Iran awakening, right now).
And by the way, you were suggesting gay people should join up with religious communities. It's already happening. Well come along in November – I'll be showing solidarity again with the Secular muslims and the Committe of Ex-muslims, when they call for the protection of children against Sharia-fascism and faith schools. These are 2 groups more gay people should be getting involved with.

Still, there's more to life than gay pride, which after all, is just a festival.

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]]> By: valerio http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58247 valerio Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:05:10 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58247 Wow... what a prolific thread! Apology in advance: Sorry, RobN, I don't mean to single you out, but this one was just too funny to let it pass :) "there is no "typical person" - we are all different, so stop imposing your pigeon-holing on the rest of us. (Comment by RobN — June 16, 2009 @ 13:30) I wouldn't trust any gay man as far as I could spit. (Comment by RobN — June 16, 2009 @ 7:21) Wow… what a prolific thread!

Apology in advance: Sorry, RobN, I don't mean to single you out, but this one was just too funny to let it pass :)

"there is no "typical person" – we are all different, so stop imposing your pigeon-holing on the rest of us. (Comment by RobN — June 16, 2009 @ 13:30)

I wouldn't trust any gay man as far as I could spit. (Comment by RobN — June 16, 2009 @ 7:21)

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]]> By: Niki http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58240 Niki Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:09:15 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58240 Crian MCmanhon-- (32) You lied! Please reproduce the quote you claimed I made on another thread. Crian MCmanhon– (32) You lied! Please reproduce the quote you claimed I made on another thread.

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]]> By: bentham http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58225 bentham Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:28:41 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58225 Midwest Men's Festival The past 27 summers have seen a very special event take place: The Midwest Men's Festival. Beginning in 1982 as a regional gathering for men exploring change in their lives and roles, the Festival has grown in size and scope over the years to encompass men from many parts of the nation representing diverse walks of life, age and personal experience. The 28th annual Festival will be held from July 21 - 30, 2009 at Gaea Retreat Center which is located about 45 minutes northwest of Kansas City. Cabin or tent space and meals are included in the very reasonable registration fee. Early registration is available until June 15th. Although the festival is attended primarily by Gay men, many of whom are involved in earth-centered spirituality. it is also a celebration of diversity, freedom of expression and community participation. Men of varied racial, ethnic and cultural backgrounds, sexual orientation and spiritual beliefs are encouraged to attend. Midwest Men's Festival

The past 27 summers have seen a very special event take place: The Midwest Men's
Festival. Beginning in 1982 as a regional gathering for men exploring change in
their lives and roles, the Festival has grown in size and scope over the years
to encompass men from many parts of the nation representing diverse walks of
life, age and personal experience.

The 28th annual Festival will be held from July 21 – 30, 2009
at Gaea Retreat Center which is located about 45 minutes northwest of Kansas
City. Cabin or tent space and meals are included in the very reasonable
registration fee. Early registration is available until June 15th.

Although the festival is attended primarily by Gay men, many of whom are
involved in earth-centered spirituality. it is also a celebration of diversity,
freedom of expression and community participation. Men of varied racial, ethnic
and cultural backgrounds, sexual orientation and spiritual beliefs are
encouraged to attend.

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]]> By: Monkeychops http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58213 Monkeychops Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:02:30 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58213 JP - Tu me fais rire! I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve - but pasting that random same message about me being an ex-gay fundamentalist (with no proof, of course, as there isn't any) did make you look slightly unstable. Well, paranoid at least. So what do you propose doing about my presumed imposture then? JP, are you so really terrified of a gay guy that won't conform to your way of thinking? Especially on a forum?? JP – Tu me fais rire! I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve – but pasting that random same message about me being an ex-gay fundamentalist (with no proof, of course, as there isn't any) did make you look slightly unstable. Well, paranoid at least. So what do you propose doing about my presumed imposture then?

JP, are you so really terrified of a gay guy that won't conform to your way of thinking? Especially on a forum??

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]]> By: Jean-Paul http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58211 Jean-Paul Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:54:45 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58211 Trix (50): Now that you mention it, I agree with you. What do you suggest we do about it? Trix (50):

Now that you mention it, I agree with you. What do you suggest we do about it?

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]]> By: Monkeychops http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58197 Monkeychops Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:26:03 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58197 Of course they should have an election to do it. And I'm sure that with the recent local and European results, the SNP will go on to strengthen its influence at the next general election. If they want it, they can have it. The UK government doesn't have a right to stop secession? Of course, it means they'll have to go through EU-accession talks like everyone else (which I'm sure they'll get through), they aren't guaranteed entry just for previously being part of a member state. However, I'm not really sure if there is a majority in Scotland at this very moment. A couple of years ago, for sure. The YouGov stats go up and down all the time and they've taken a tumble recently, attributed to the recession - there's more economic stability by staying with the rest of the UK right now. From what I saw in a survey published in March (in the Times I think, though I tend to leaf through a few web sites every day), it was down to about 33% in favour. Support for Alex Salmond does not mean support for independence though. Of course they should have an election to do it. And I'm sure that with the recent local and European results, the SNP will go on to strengthen its influence at the next general election. If they want it, they can have it. The UK government doesn't have a right to stop secession? Of course, it means they'll have to go through EU-accession talks like everyone else (which I'm sure they'll get through), they aren't guaranteed entry just for previously being part of a member state.

However, I'm not really sure if there is a majority in Scotland at this very moment. A couple of years ago, for sure. The YouGov stats go up and down all the time and they've taken a tumble recently, attributed to the recession – there's more economic stability by staying with the rest of the UK right now. From what I saw in a survey published in March (in the Times I think, though I tend to leaf through a few web sites every day), it was down to about 33% in favour. Support for Alex Salmond does not mean support for independence though.

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]]> By: Simon Murphy http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58191 Simon Murphy Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:05:36 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58191 #56: Monkeychop: "They just can’t have independence if there isn’t enough to vote the motion through. Therefore, in that instance, i.e. THE VOTE, the majority gets what it wants. It can work for you, it can work against you. " Interestingly there IS a majority in Scotland who want independence. Do you support the idea that they have an election to determine whether they remain part of the UK. Or are you engaging in double standards again? #56: Monkeychop: "They just can’t have independence if there isn’t enough to vote the motion through. Therefore, in that instance, i.e. THE VOTE, the majority gets what it wants. It can work for you, it can work against you. "

Interestingly there IS a majority in Scotland who want independence.

Do you support the idea that they have an election to determine whether they remain part of the UK.

Or are you engaging in double standards again?

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]]> By: Monkeychops http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58179 Monkeychops Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:16:47 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58179 Tom – I went, I saw, I didn’t like and don’t go any more. But, I think it’s to my credit I went several times in different countries to get a better idea. I gave it a chance, you can’t fault me on that. Kids won’t get damaged by seeing the sex, but they’ll be questioning what it is? Please tell me how you would explain to a child of 8 why that man in the rubber bondage outfit is dressed like that and rubbing himself up against that old man in a mesh thong with a studded lead around his neck….I haven’t the foggiest. Let children have some innocence for goodness sake, the world is oversexualisng its youth as it is. There are obviously some truly wonderful outfits, which sadly get overlooked by those still shocked from seeing rubber gusset man chucking sachets of lube at them. And the same applies to the stands from a diversity of groups (Gay Police Association, emergency services, Christian groups, as you mention) – they will be drowned out by the extremity of the seedier floats. My views are not based on one or two people, it is a combination of the sluttiness (getting groped, chatted up by lascivious men), the full-on, in your face sexual provocation (not just occasional rubbing up), the fact that the police are on standby at public toilets to stop cottaging (remember, a toilet is for doing just what it was intended and there will be people of all ages, backgrounds and so on in there who will not want to see or hear guys at it) and also the fact that I see no-one there that I remotely relate to. Nothing represents me at all in any way. Of course, it doesn’t have to, but it’s another point as to why I have never warmed to it. It is also supposed to be a representation of the gay world and it’s shameful that this is it. No culture at all. Just a bit of music, some bright outfits and all of it oversexualised. It’s just very extreme, tacky and tasteless. You obviously feel that it’s your right to participate in a sexualized set of floats in public and be as provocative as you see fit. If you do, that’s fine, but then you must face the consequences of that. You therefore have no right to condemn those who do not want to see people displaying their sexuality with such intensity and provocation as homophobes for criticizing you. People will find it just as crass if straight people were up there in gimp masks and whatever else. The thing is, I’ve never seen straight parade like that. Sure, I’ve seen women in bikinis playing calypsos, but they aren’t rubbing their cracks up against passers-by in some tasteless act of titillation. Gay sex is great, sex of any kind is great. But keep it indoors and don’t try to make an identity out of it. Sex is a universal right and occurrence, it is not the basis of anyone’s character. It’s also hugely private and personal and this kind of display just cheapens it. Through such an event, we are not displaying ourselves to have common values with the rest of society (which we keep claiming) and it’s just self-marginalisation. I cannot condone and my sense of self-preservation says I should just keep away from it. Tom – I went, I saw, I didn’t like and don’t go any more. But, I think it’s to my credit I went several times in different countries to get a better idea. I gave it a chance, you can’t fault me on that. Kids won’t get damaged by seeing the sex, but they’ll be questioning what it is? Please tell me how you would explain to a child of 8 why that man in the rubber bondage outfit is dressed like that and rubbing himself up against that old man in a mesh thong with a studded lead around his neck….I haven’t the foggiest. Let children have some innocence for goodness sake, the world is oversexualisng its youth as it is. There are obviously some truly wonderful outfits, which sadly get overlooked by those still shocked from seeing rubber gusset man chucking sachets of lube at them. And the same applies to the stands from a diversity of groups (Gay Police Association, emergency services, Christian groups, as you mention) – they will be drowned out by the extremity of the seedier floats. My views are not based on one or two people, it is a combination of the sluttiness (getting groped, chatted up by lascivious men), the full-on, in your face sexual provocation (not just occasional rubbing up), the fact that the police are on standby at public toilets to stop cottaging (remember, a toilet is for doing just what it was intended and there will be people of all ages, backgrounds and so on in there who will not want to see or hear guys at it) and also the fact that I see no-one there that I remotely relate to. Nothing represents me at all in any way. Of course, it doesn’t have to, but it’s another point as to why I have never warmed to it. It is also supposed to be a representation of the gay world and it’s shameful that this is it. No culture at all. Just a bit of music, some bright outfits and all of it oversexualised. It’s just very extreme, tacky and tasteless.

You obviously feel that it’s your right to participate in a sexualized set of floats in public and be as provocative as you see fit. If you do, that’s fine, but then you must face the consequences of that. You therefore have no right to condemn those who do not want to see people displaying their sexuality with such intensity and provocation as homophobes for criticizing you. People will find it just as crass if straight people were up there in gimp masks and whatever else. The thing is, I’ve never seen straight parade like that. Sure, I’ve seen women in bikinis playing calypsos, but they aren’t rubbing their cracks up against passers-by in some tasteless act of titillation.

Gay sex is great, sex of any kind is great. But keep it indoors and don’t try to make an identity out of it. Sex is a universal right and occurrence, it is not the basis of anyone’s character. It’s also hugely private and personal and this kind of display just cheapens it. Through such an event, we are not displaying ourselves to have common values with the rest of society (which we keep claiming) and it’s just self-marginalisation. I cannot condone and my sense of self-preservation says I should just keep away from it.

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]]> By: TomPaine http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58171 TomPaine Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:35:02 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58171 Like I said Monkey, this is gay pride. Don't go if you don't like it. Yet again, you've given an example of 2 people in a crowd of hundreds of thousands. That is not exactly representative of the typical gay pride festival goer is it? Being a 'Muscle mary' myself - you can check my profile on here, it's under Adrian-T. (for some reason, I cannot post under AdrianT at the moment, I guess someone at PN needs to get a thicker skin too) I'm pretty much sure you'd be appalled. On most of these floats, we dance, dress up in some silly costume, and help ourselves to free beer. Occasionalyy rubbing up next to someone. It's nothing remarkable. If that offends you, hurts your feelings - that's just too bad. You have the option to look away, or not be there. I happen not to be alone in wanting floats full of exhibitionist muscleboys, so...here we are, celebrating sex. People may as well be aware, statistically, millions of gays are having sex, at any time. It should be celebrated, especially as many would seek to recriminalise being gay. Because, to them, sex is nothing more than behaviour. When i think of such people, my thoughts are: how can I earn their hatred and contempt? If I am not doing this to such backward intolerant bigots, I have failed. As for the harm it does to children. Well, you may as well say they will be damaged by the loud music, the availability of alcohol. It's not an event for children, any more than an event in Ibiza, or SW4, Dance Valley, or any other party is. Your description of gay pride is frankly over the top - you discard the dozens of other floats, the stalls in trafalgar square from catholic groups to rugby teams, and focus on a specific incident you do not like. Like I said Monkey, this is gay pride. Don't go if you don't like it. Yet again, you've given an example of 2 people in a crowd of hundreds of thousands. That is not exactly representative of the typical gay pride festival goer is it?

Being a 'Muscle mary' myself – you can check my profile on here, it's under Adrian-T. (for some reason, I cannot post under AdrianT at the moment, I guess someone at PN needs to get a thicker skin too) I'm pretty much sure you'd be appalled.

On most of these floats, we dance, dress up in some silly costume, and help ourselves to free beer. Occasionalyy rubbing up next to someone. It's nothing remarkable. If that offends you, hurts your feelings – that's just too bad. You have the option to look away, or not be there. I happen not to be alone in wanting floats full of exhibitionist muscleboys, so…here we are, celebrating sex.
People may as well be aware, statistically, millions of gays are having sex, at any time.

It should be celebrated, especially as many would seek to recriminalise being gay. Because, to them, sex is nothing more than behaviour. When i think of such people, my thoughts are: how can I earn their hatred and contempt? If I am not doing this to such backward intolerant bigots, I have failed.

As for the harm it does to children. Well, you may as well say they will be damaged by the loud music, the availability of alcohol. It's not an event for children, any more than an event in Ibiza, or SW4, Dance Valley, or any other party is.

Your description of gay pride is frankly over the top – you discard the dozens of other floats, the stalls in trafalgar square from catholic groups to rugby teams, and focus on a specific incident you do not like.

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]]> By: Monkeychops http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58170 Monkeychops Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:32:42 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58170 As I've said before, just because you're from a country doesn't mean you actually know much about it. I'm not saying you don't, but it isn't wise to assume so. I never thought the weird UK class system was odd until a cousin from France pointed it out. The chances of being biased to one side are also higher. I wouldn't say you have been, but Patrick seems to be hinting at which side he is on. Do you think the people on the Shankhill Rd and the Falls Rd really know about the reality of the situation? As in the overall situation? Or just their side of the argument in depth and what their politcians say? After all, the partition is still there. Accusations come free and fast from both sides of the fence, but it doesn't mean they are well qualified. I've been around both those areas (not in the taxis, didn't want a biased opinion), but by myself, looking at the murals, noting the personalities depicted and then chatting to locals in the city centre. I could easily have said, I hate Catholics given that they used to detonate explosives in my country, but I haven't taken that line as I know there are two sides to everything. In fact, I am quite happy for Ulster to become independent, as I am with Scotland or Wales. As I've said before, just because you're from a country doesn't mean you actually know much about it. I'm not saying you don't, but it isn't wise to assume so. I never thought the weird UK class system was odd until a cousin from France pointed it out. The chances of being biased to one side are also higher. I wouldn't say you have been, but Patrick seems to be hinting at which side he is on. Do you think the people on the Shankhill Rd and the Falls Rd really know about the reality of the situation? As in the overall situation? Or just their side of the argument in depth and what their politcians say? After all, the partition is still there. Accusations come free and fast from both sides of the fence, but it doesn't mean they are well qualified. I've been around both those areas (not in the taxis, didn't want a biased opinion), but by myself, looking at the murals, noting the personalities depicted and then chatting to locals in the city centre. I could easily have said, I hate Catholics given that they used to detonate explosives in my country, but I haven't taken that line as I know there are two sides to everything. In fact, I am quite happy for Ulster to become independent, as I am with Scotland or Wales.

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]]> By: Will http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58169 Will Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:29:27 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58169 "You might also want to ask whether Eire wants to have Ulster join with it……" Fair point. "You might also want to ask whether Eire wants to have Ulster join with it……"

Fair point.

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]]> By: Monkeychops http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58166 Monkeychops Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:18:58 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58166 I do understand it, actually (please stop patronisng me). Though, like you I'm sure, there will be gaps in my knowledge. No-one can know everything - and people have different party lines to take (yourself included, as you are hinting at being a republican). The civil rights issues are vast - whether you talk about Bloody Sunday or the Gibraltar Three (and Michael Stone's grenade attack at their funeral). I'm just talking about votes, that's it. Democracy works on majorities, it always has done. I'm not disputing that Unionists might be imposing their will on the country. And you can argue that their lead is small - but after so many years of fighting and a decade of power-sharing, why is it that they still have that lead? Could it just be that people want that? Or are you not prepared to accept that may just be the case through a belief in a united Ireland. You might also want to ask whether Eire wants to have Ulster join with it...... I do understand it, actually (please stop patronisng me). Though, like you I'm sure, there will be gaps in my knowledge. No-one can know everything – and people have different party lines to take (yourself included, as you are hinting at being a republican). The civil rights issues are vast – whether you talk about Bloody Sunday or the Gibraltar Three (and Michael Stone's grenade attack at their funeral). I'm just talking about votes, that's it. Democracy works on majorities, it always has done. I'm not disputing that Unionists might be imposing their will on the country. And you can argue that their lead is small – but after so many years of fighting and a decade of power-sharing, why is it that they still have that lead? Could it just be that people want that? Or are you not prepared to accept that may just be the case through a belief in a united Ireland.

You might also want to ask whether Eire wants to have Ulster join with it……

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]]> By: Will http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58165 Will Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:15:45 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58165 I'm Irish. That's how I know. If you don't believe wikipedia, look it up somewhere else. I happen to know a great deal about Irish history, but as I said, its not my job to educate you. Look it up for yourself. Don't, if you don't what to. Wont change the truth. I'm Irish. That's how I know.

If you don't believe wikipedia, look it up somewhere else. I happen to know a great deal about Irish history, but as I said, its not my job to educate you. Look it up for yourself. Don't, if you don't what to. Wont change the truth.

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]]> By: Patrick http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html/comment-page-2/#comment-58164 Patrick Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:13:12 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12820.html#comment-58164 Monkeychops, listen to what Will is saying. The situation in the Provence is not simply unionist and nationalist. Its not just about majority. Its more complicated than that. Its about the unionist majority imposing the will of them on the minority, and that majority lead is VERY small. There are a lot of civil rights issues involved, which led to the "troubles". Read the link Will gave you. Learn the history properly. And stop trying to talk about what you don't clearly understand. Monkeychops, listen to what Will is saying. The situation in the Provence is not simply unionist and nationalist. Its not just about majority. Its more complicated than that. Its about the unionist majority imposing the will of them on the minority, and that majority lead is VERY small. There are a lot of civil rights issues involved, which led to the "troubles".

Read the link Will gave you. Learn the history properly. And stop trying to talk about what you don't clearly understand.

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