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If you are a camp gay, then yes, I am not "one of you", as you put it. I am however, a non-camp gay guy. Which I keep saying and which you choose to ignore at your convenience as some rather strange way of convincing yourself I'm an ex-gay Christian fundie. If that's what you want to believe, then go ahead, but given that you have no evidence to do so, isn't that as stupid as believing in a God you cannot see? You can convince yourself anything is the truth if you really want to. Be a bit more observant….look through all my posts and you'll see my points are consistent – I defend free speech (from us and religious groups alike), I am happy to consider myself homosexual, but I don't agree with how a certain section of the gay world behaves. Like I would consider myself British but don't like football hooligans or binge-drinkers vomiting in the street. Doesn't make me any less British does it? No, of course not, that's insane. Does it make me anti-British as well? No. I thoroughly believe in human rights, but I also believe in human responsibilities – which I think many minorities have never really taken on board. The more rights you get given, the more you have to take responsibility for yourself and the actions of your minority. Seems fair, right? We can't be on an equal footing with the rest of society yet behave inappropriately or still claim to be victims that need looking after all the time. It's very typical of some very insecure people on here to assume that you either have to be camp and gay or not-camp and in denial/anti-gay. Saying I am not-camp but gay is no different to saying I am not-white but British (I'm actually white, but we're talking about minorities here). In either case, I'm still part of our society, just a different participant to you.

You don't have to agree with me on any of my points, but being so narrow-minded as to assume that I am some kind of religious terrorist because I won't agree with you isn't making me what to engage with you. Challenge my views, I'll always justify them – lots of people on here have and they get a response. But hypothesising about me and getting it very wrong means you should just stay on the fringes where you deserve.

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I agree one can only draw the conclusion as stated previously

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Because I think he is one, JohnK. He suddenly appears on this site, lambaste anyone who doesn't agree with him, uses anti-gay language, defends christian beliefs, has an issue with "camps", talks about gays like he's not one of us, doesn't like to be challenged………

……..there's no smoke without fire. Jean Paul is right:- He's an imposter here to stir shit.

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"If Polish diplomats started harping on about how overly liberal we were in allowing "abominations", there would just as much outrage."

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When you use the word abominations you lets some thing slip.

The word "Abominations" reveals more about you than it does the Polish or the diplomat.

If you are not an exgay christian fundamentalist . . . why are you using the language of an exgay christian fundamentalist?

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If Polish diplomats started harping on about how overly liberal we were in allowing "abominations", there would just as much outrage.

- – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - –

When you use the word abominations you lets some thing slip.

The word "Abominations" reveals more about you than it does the Polish or the diplomat.

If or not an exgay christian fundamentalist . . . why are you using the language of an exgay christian fundamentalist?

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Can such a religion be described as civilized? Europe can still smell the stench of the burning flesh of countless homosexuals who, according to today's scientific studies, were basically and simply being themselves, but who were condemned to a cruel death by a man-made religion.

At the same time Chinese emperors were enjoying same-sex relationships without a second thought.

There is also evidence that a same-sex couple was burried in an ancient tomb located in the ancient necroplis of Saqqara dating back to the 5th Dynasty in Old Kingdom Egypt.

If I remember correctly, the remains of the couple, who had been royal attendants, were brought to light in 1964 when the Egyptian archeologist Ahmed Moussa discovered a series of tombs with rock-cut passages in the escarpment facing the causeway that led to the pyramid of Unas.

The American scholar Greg Reed has translated the hieroglyphics to reveal the names of these two ancient same-sex male lovers: Niankhkhhnum and Khnumhotep.

Who of us would deny that the Egyptians were a highly civilized people? Yet, they celebrated love in all its forms.

The very notion of civilization can be ambivalent, then, do you not agree?

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The diplomat in this case made no comment or criticism about the Polish government's stand on gay rights. They merely put up a flag inside Embassy grounds. This looks more like a hysterical overreaction on the part of the Poles.

By the way, diplomats are most welcome to criticise any aspect of the british way of life they please. The evidence is though, that countries which are more committed to human rights are better off in standards of living, education, life expectancy. They would be making a rod for their own back, as they would find themselves explaining why thousands of their own compatriots emigrate for countries like ours.

"The most visible gay people are appallingly uncivilised."
Who is harmed by these actions? I have seen no evidence of people 'cruising' – but what is wrong with people using gay pride as an opportunity to find a mate? What is wrong with celebrating sexiness? Pride after all is a festival, a party, where people come to have a good time. No one is forced to look or attend. Like, Ibiza, or the Love Parade, or the Notting Hill Carnival. Or for that matter, the Maastricht Carnaval. Tell me, why you think people at Pride are any less 'civilised' than at any of these events….

"My opinions…are just as valid."
No opinions areequally valid. Your opinions have the same right to be heard, and should be put under the same level of scrutiny. But that cannot make them equally valid.

"So tough tits."
Now we're talking…. that's just how I like them.

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Pumpkin – because I don't support the majority of the the varying views on here means that I should be condemned? Hmmmm….doesn't that idea conflict with us being a minority? On that basis, the majority straight community (who also have a wide variety of views) would be perfectly justify in telling you to shut your trap because they don't agree with the crap you come out with. Fair enough then, you'll just have to lose your voice for being a minority. And, apparently, you were in favour of minority rights??

This whole ex-gay fundamentalist conspiracy thing is actually quite amusing. Especially as I have said that I am gay several times (thoug I guess that doesn't matter to some on here). Perhaps some of you have been quite good at pigeon-holing yourselves….after all you've assumed that only an ex-gay fundamentalist could have the opinions that I have expressed here. How very narrow-minded (and hypocritical) of you…..treat others as you expect to be treated guys and be a bit consistent in your views. Mine may be controversial, but they don't contradict.

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Yea Mike!

Hello Brian!

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Ferrero Rochers all round. And by the way, it is perfectly natural for a British ambassador to show support for the LGBT community. It's not about British values, 'Monkeychops' – human rights are universal values. It makes good sense to promote better understanding of LGBT people because if there is less bigotry, oppression and discrimination, there are fewer asylum seekers.
Keep up the good work, Pumpkin Pie, you don't need to explain yourself to this supercilious nitwit

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I am not looking for special rights, but I demand equal rights. I demand them here, and from anyone who is expecting my money, as Poland does.

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Monkeychops . . . monkeying around and making a baboons ass of himself

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Yes, I do miss RobN.

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You are caught up in an irrational conversation with an ex-gay fundamentalist homophobe. Get it? Here's something to clear your mind:

Saturday, June 13th

1574 – RICHARD BARNFIELD, the English poet, was born on this date (d: 1620). There are, as everyone knows, certain inseparable teams: Gilbert & Sullivan, Cheech and Chong, bagels and lox, ham and eggs, Soddom and Gomorrah. In classical mythology, as in ballet, there are Daphnis and Chloë, the Greek shepherd and his lady love – Daphnis and Chloë, as inseparable as yin and yang, gin and tonic, Ron and Nancy. Not in Richard Banrfield, however. His Affectionate Shepherd (1594) scandalized Renaissance England by describing in florid detail the love of Daphnis and Ganymede, just a couple of guys, foolin' around. What the fuss was all about is difficult to say since, in the absence of Chloë, Daphnis never exercised his shepherdly option of making it with his favorite sheep, choosing a boy instead. "If it be a sin to love a lovely lad," wrote Barnfield, "oh, then sin I." He was not quite 21 when he wrote the poem. His obscure though close relationship with Shakespeare has long made him interesting to students.

No more answering Monkeychops, OK? You are no longer alone facing this sleezeball. Sorry I wasn't here sooner. R U with me?

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It took awhile, but now I see it. A student of Hank's, are we?
Diplomatically homophobic, are we? Your generalization says it all:

'The most visible gays are appallingly uncivilized.' Didn't you say that in your post 8.

SoPumpkin Pie has come up against a brick wall, has he? (17)

Do you mean an ex-gay fundamentalist brick wall, sweetie?

Stick around, don't run away.

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Attention all commenters: Monkeychops has just given you permission to override his views if you are older and have more experience of gay culture than him.

Anyone else miss RobN? Now there was a misanthrope with some decorum. A people-hater you could respect! He may have been a grouch, but he had his own sort of gracefulness. I hope he posts again.

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