I am NOT talking about normal men, like my friends, father and siblings who do not share a shred of the attitude that I'm referring to.

If I was trying to 'impose' (superimpose doesn't make sense!) my ideas then this would be put across as "I'm right blah blah blah". Whereas if you actually read my posts you'll see that all I have tried to do is explain an experience that many, many lesbians go through; and then try and get RobN to empathise by putting himself in our position.

There is absoloutely nothing wrong with that and it is a reasonable way to discuss and/or debate.

I think your problem if the fact that you don't like WHAT I'm saying as opposed to HOW I'm saying it.

(Report comment to the moderator)

Just because you have a few hang-ups about men, does not mean you shoould feel the need to, or have the right to try to superimpose them on others.

Its a cheerly little song, that might arguably be a bit irreverent, as has already been said, but you could equally argue that it helps to mainstream homosexuality and re-enformce positive imagery of being gay to people bouncing around a dance floor having a good time to a little ditty about some pretty girl's lesbian-esque antics.

All part of the ever popular victim mentality to twist it all around to something negative when its not.

(Report comment to the moderator)

I don't need anything to be pigeonholed to relate to it; and since you don't know me, for you to make that assumption shows arrogance.

"As usual, the LGBT lefties feign apoplexy over a storm in a "D" cup."

And for a supposed gay man, you do quite a lot of gay bashing; and have an unhealthy obsession with 'lefties' and labelling people as such. Leftophobia? I bet a Marxist-Leninist would make you poo your pants!

"When have you ever been followed with your boyfriend by a gang of girls threatening to rape you? When have you ever seen a gang of girls at a bar there solely to perv on what you and your gay male friends get up to? When have you ever been pestered in a bar by a woman even AFTER you've told her you're gay? When have you ever seen or heard of a gang of women salivating over gay porn? When has a woman ever sexualised you????"

You did NOT pay attention to what I wrote here, I'm not talking about straight men pretending to be gay to pick up fag hags; that's immaterial to my point and a bit desperate of these men. I'm talking about how would you like it if you were being aggressivley harassed, sexualised and objectified by women. Which, I'm guessing (from the fact that you didn't acknowledge it) has never happened.

This happens to lesbians every day in society, in the street, the pub, the media -everywhere! Most of it you can ignore, but when this aggressive sexualisation of you by men is there 24/7 you start to get pissed off, big time!

So yeah, I am pissed off at some American bint using my sexuality and culture/sub-culture (whatever) to tease and engage the very people in society who have caused me the most trouble and whom I want nothing to do with.

As for Will & Grace, I'm not arsed about that because in this sense it's different for gay men. Perhaps if they had Will and Jack kissing and doing sex scenes all the time for the sole entertainment of women you might be pissed off. However, straight women are not like that and do not want to see this.

So until you're treated by women, like a lesbian is by men; you will never, ever understand. But you've never been, and never will on the sacale we have, so I'm trying to put YOU in OUR shoes. That's all. Just put yourself in our shoes for a minute and completely turn the tables. You'll see.

(Report comment to the moderator)

(Report comment to the moderator)

While it may be true that activism sometimes seem to lack a sense of humour, a lot of the time it's necessary to maintain the fight for equality. By all means make excuses for discriminatory behaviour if you want but why criticise the people who see such things as something to speak out against?

There are plenty of people struggling with their sexual identity. Imagine if one poor kid actually took Perry's advice to "hang yourself with your H&M scarf". Would it be so inoffensive then?

(Report comment to the moderator)

As for the actual argument, if it was a str8 guy pretending to be gay, why not? There was a phase a few years ago of straight men hanging around gay bars pretending to be gay and then picking up all the fag hags. ("Oh! I'm gay, you'll never turn me!") – They were amusingly called "Pink Panthers".

Frankly, I wouldn't give a toss, let's face it, there are many closet queens out there pretending to me straight, many married but having a bit on the side, so why not the other way? Why does everything have to be pigeonholed just so you can associate with it? The two "gay" actors in Will & Grace are straight. They are pretending,/i> *shock!* *horror!*

I'm a fat stereotypical dyke with short hair and I likes Katy Perry, wouldn't mind if I was the girl she kissed and liked it!

However, unlike Beth Ditto I dress to my size and would NEVER wear hotpants – just ew, no!

As far as looks are concerned and me being shallow – Katy Perry, Hell yes I would! Beth Ditto, eugh no, dress sensibly, shave your pits and wash your hair once in a while you ming-bag!

(Report comment to the moderator)

When have you ever been followed with your boyfriend by a gang of girls threatening to rape you? When have you ever seen a gang of girls at a bar there solely to perv on what you and your gay male friends get up to? When have you ever been pestered in a bar by a woman even AFTER you've told her you're gay? When have you ever seen or heard of a gang of women salivating over gay porn? When has a woman ever sexualised you????? – Now imagine you've that has happened and that you've experienced all of this for years (YEARS), and then imagine a that male singer pretends to be gay and sings about kissing boys all for the sole reason of entertaining the very group of girls, who have at times, made your life hell. Still OK with it?

But because you don't and never will experience what lesbians put up with all the time, you don't understand why we're a bit annoyed.

I've now heard you say such things as 'queen', 'fat dyke'and 'Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve'…….I'm beginning to wonder whether you have issues!

(Report comment to the moderator)

By the way, RIGHT-ON Jack, my thoughts exactly!

(Report comment to the moderator)

I remember years ago at Pride, my BF thought it highly amusing to wear a "Nobody knows I'm a Lesbian" T-Shirt. Everyone took it in the light it was intended, both gay, str8, gay and lesbian. However it wasnt long before some Diesel took offence and claimed it was "exploiting wimmin".

Beth Ditto really needs to get out more.

(Report comment to the moderator)

Spot on Mark. That 'Ur so gay' song is ridiculous and you can take it as a joke and in good humour to an extent but you can still recognise that ultimately it's offensive and derogatory. Imagine a song called 'Ur so black' where she talks about silly Ali G-like stereotypes; there would be murder over it and rightly so.

"I guess the closest the gay community gets to what the lesbian community has to put up with is the type of girls who crowd out gay bars on their hen nights to have a good laugh at the freakshow, but we seldom get hit on unless they mistaken us for straight.I think perhaps it's the last vestiges of our patriarchal past that you girls still get to be the object of straight guys sexual fantasies whether you want to be or not."

I agree Flapjack. It is to do with the old patriachal thinking of men having control over everything. Straight men that is, not you guys But they just need to wake up and realise that 'lesbian' means 'gay', the same as 'gay' for a gay man means gay. And I think porn has a lot to do with it. I have seen girl on girl porn and it's awful! And a man always seems to enter into the scene aswell. But that's the thing, straight men think that's what lesbians do, We mess about until the 'real' sex begins.

As for hen nights in gay bars, yes I've seen those. That's another weird thing, gay men have 'fag hags' et al but straight men do not hang around with gay women in the same sense. Strange.

(Report comment to the moderator)

(Report comment to the moderator)

If the song was a celebration of bi-curiosity, why use language that is derogatory towards non-hetero behaviour?
Don't even get me started on Perry's awful "Ur so gay" – an offensive attempt to stereotype "gay behaviour". Those people who don't care about such songs, or think they're harmless, are ignoring the fact that the younger generation listen to such things and believe that such an attitude is acceptable. It's a similar message to Chris Moyles's use of the word "gay" – that's just as bad!

(Report comment to the moderator)

(Report comment to the moderator)

That song is using lesbianism as something to titillate straight males with; when in reality lesbianism is none of their business.

I accept that gay men will not find this offensive, but maybe when straight women watch degrading 'gay' porn, follow you down the street, harass you and threaten you with rape you would get pissed off when a straight male singer panders to them – the very people you want nothing to do with.

(Report comment to the moderator)

(Report comment to the moderator)

(Report comment to the moderator)

(Report comment to the moderator)

Perfectly put. And it's also about all the straight girls who play up to that. So NOT about people being bisexual or experimenting.
Flapjack, I agree re it being preferable to Beenie man but it's still not good, and, although the song is not at all aggressive in its own right, it just contributes to the situation that many lesbians find themselves in. And that's not paranoia. My girlfriend and I have had that song sung at us when we've been followed in the street, then we've been verbally abused and shoved. Yes, the people who did that were idiots, but they get their ideas from somewhere, and this subtle putting down of women and lesbians even more so is just nasty.

(Report comment to the moderator)

If the song were sung by a man about kissing a man, it would not have been as popular – perhaps, it would only have been played in gay venues.

I'm surprised that more people have not complained about her.

(Report comment to the moderator)