Comments on: Desmond Tutu supports gay clergy

By: Pumpkin Pie

Pumpkin Pie — Fri, 29 May 2009 15:05:16 +0000

People like Tutu is what religion needs more of. What a lovely guy.

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By: Jean-Paul

Jean-Paul — Fri, 29 May 2009 03:03:04 +0000

Har Davids (4):

Agreed. There is only one Desmond Tutu, and you bring up some interesting points.

Unless someone has re-written the Bible, he does 'represent a God lots of Christians frown upon'.

Good to have you aboard.

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By: Jean-Paul

Jean-Paul — Fri, 29 May 2009 01:06:56 +0000

AdrianT (8):

It's difficult to put my finger on it, but I felt the same way you did, and I still do.

He reminds me too much of His Holiness Pope John XXIII, the man whose intention it was to open the windows of the Vatican and let the fresh air of the 20t century into the RCC.

He was no sooner dead than a tremendous reactionary tidal wave overwhelmed Vatican II with confusion, misinterpetations of all kinds, mockeries of successful attempts to modernize the Church….and prepared the way for the present papacy.

Angelo Roncalli's personality is still vividly present in my memory. I did love him, and of course I love Desmond Tutu. It just seems too good to be true.

For example, any man with Tutu's reputation would be embraced by his fellow clergymen. Who would dare to say a word against him?

Christianity remains homophobic through and through while thousands of theologians could not blaze a trail through the sacred scriptures in favour of gay liberation.

Frankly I hope I'm wrong.

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By: Robert, ex-pat Brit

Robert, ex-pat Brit — Thu, 28 May 2009 14:40:11 +0000

Bishop Tutu for Archbishop of Canterbury, a true christian in every sense of the word.

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By: George

George — Thu, 28 May 2009 12:45:49 +0000

Sounds like he made a fantastic speech. I hope it will have swayed more of the church members to place their prejudices to one side.

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By: Neil

Neil — Thu, 28 May 2009 10:38:11 +0000

Bless Desmond – my absolute hero and an inspiration to all

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By: Mike

Mike — Thu, 28 May 2009 10:35:52 +0000

I've said it before, this man is fantastic! He shows what Christians really should be, caring compassionate and non judgemental!!!

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By: onemanguy

onemanguy — Thu, 28 May 2009 07:24:23 +0000

Re Tutu's stance on gay sex. In his own words (from Sex, Love & Homophobia, V.Baird) "Churches say that the expression of love in a heterosexual monogamous relationship includes the physical, the touching, embracing, kissing, the genital act – the totality of our love makes each of us grow to become increasingly godlike and compassionate. If this is so for the heterosexual, what earthly reason have we to say that it is not the case with the homosexual?"

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By: AdrianT

AdrianT — Thu, 28 May 2009 07:10:18 +0000

Fair enough… thanks Richard.

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By: richard

richard — Wed, 27 May 2009 23:03:09 +0000

Adrian T

As I understand it – this is a historical stance from Tutu based on the specific and special case of clergy. I also understand that this was not Tutu's ideal – but rather, a compromise position for further progress to be made………in the direction of the full embracing of gay sexuality – that he now (more explicitly) argues for.

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By: richard

richard — Wed, 27 May 2009 22:58:23 +0000

sorry – should read "…..no top down enforcement….."

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By: richard

richard — Wed, 27 May 2009 22:57:21 +0000

Further to my comments (post 7) can I also re-inforce that Buddhist Philosophy is not a religion in the common-place meaning of the construct. It is a spirituality based on the individual's relation to their own (and wider) reality – much like Gestalt psychology and psychotherapy. The latter disciplines are heavily influenced by Buddhist thinking.

So, what I am saying is that in line with the buddhist principles there is now 'top-down' moral enforcement. It encourages an individual construction of such – with certain fallible and context-dependent guidlines for thinking (not for action) hence the quote, from the Buddha:

"Don't believe me because you see me as your teacher. Don't believe me because others do. And don't believe anything because you read it in a book, either. Don't put your faith in reports, or tradition, or hearsay, or the authority of religious leaders or texts. Don't rely on mere logic, or inference, or appearances, or speculation."

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By: AdrianT

AdrianT — Wed, 27 May 2009 22:51:31 +0000

I don't know about Desmond Tutu. I welcome his comments, but I understand he has – according to Wikipedia, admittedly not the most reliable of sources – 'recommended that gay church leaders remain celibate'. I would like to know more about this comment before I rush into Palm Sunday-style adjulation for the man.

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By: richard

richard — Wed, 27 May 2009 22:46:57 +0000

I am feeling free to correct you Anthony……lol.

His holiness the Dalai Lama is pro-gay rights. What he teaches is about sexual misconduct regarding certain sexual behaviours. He is clear that this is only his interpretation – and should not be taken as gospel – he does not wish to 'force' this on any one – but is his opinion, for him to hold. And he, personally, does not reasonably expect others (even budhists necessarily) to comply with his personal ethical stance.

He stresses, however compassion of intepretation and action and is keen to support what he sees as the legitimate struggle of a community for which he has much love.

He is the classic example of a person who has his own personal standards and shares these only when asked – he does not wish to constrain the minds of others.

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By: Anthony

Anthony — Wed, 27 May 2009 22:14:39 +0000

As far as I'm aware, the dalai lama is actually homophobic. If I'm wrong, then feel free to correct me.

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By: Christina

Christina — Wed, 27 May 2009 20:00:17 +0000

Bless you, Desmond Tutu – you are a living saint!
xxx

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By: Har Davids

Har Davids — Wed, 27 May 2009 19:36:24 +0000

If the majority of Christians were like Desmond Tutu, even I might be tempted to join them. Too bad he represents a God lots of Christians frown upon. What's also bad, is that there's only of him, because the world needs Desmond Tutus, who might be able to help us out of the holes we've dug ourselves into for centuries.

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By: Keith

Keith — Wed, 27 May 2009 17:38:49 +0000

Pope Desmond the First…

mmm…?

Has a certain ring to it..un certain 'je ne sais quoi'.

"Ebonee and ivoreee, go together on my keyboard.."

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By: richard

richard — Wed, 27 May 2009 17:25:34 +0000

Desmond Tutu oozes love and compassion. He is the ultimate (along with several others: Dalai Lama, Ghandi etc.) who really do not judge others.

His authentic spirituality humbles me.

Bless you Des!

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By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 27 May 2009 15:19:08 +0000

Thank God for Desmond Tutu! I love this man.

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