Comments on: Dutch park unveils signs to 'warn visitors' about gay cruising spots http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/ PinkNews.co.uk Gay News (UK and world) from Pink News - all the gay news for the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered community in the UK and beyond- thegaynews from Pink News Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:06:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: John K http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-51295 John K Mon, 04 May 2009 19:23:10 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-51295 . . . put it this way when sexual promiscuity is seen as a rite of passage or being a bit of a lad in heterosexuality . . . as it so often is . . . in contrast it is not quite the same if the man is gay. Why is this so . . . Well, is it not the case that Heterosexual male promisicuity is even a virtous by its encapsualtion in high art, the establishment, a sort of respectability Don Giovanni . . . I think is a point in question. Is there such a thing as a Gay Don Giovanni? (I am not making a moral statment on promisicuity just addressing the hypocrisiy inherent in heterosexuality) . . . put it this way when sexual promiscuity is seen as a rite of passage or being a bit of a lad in heterosexuality . . . as it so often is . . . in contrast it is not quite the same if the man is gay.

Why is this so . . .

Well, is it not the case that Heterosexual male promisicuity is even a virtous by its encapsualtion in high art, the establishment, a sort of respectability

Don Giovanni . . . I think is a point in question.
Is there such a thing as a Gay Don Giovanni?

(I am not making a moral statment on promisicuity just addressing the hypocrisiy inherent in heterosexuality)

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]]> By: Dan http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50978 Dan Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:54:09 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50978 John K - I think it depends on which media you place your attention. The Stan Collymore and Steve McFadden dogging stories were fixated on for some time by the tabs and mags. Dogging has also been an object of public fascination for a while now. John K – I think it depends on which media you place your attention.

The Stan Collymore and Steve McFadden dogging stories were fixated on for some time by the tabs and mags. Dogging has also been an object of public fascination for a while now.

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]]> By: John K http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50895 John K Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:20:42 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50895 Uk laws I agree do not see a differnece. Public attitudes, media reporting do. They seem to ignore heterosexual crusing in favour of an obssession with gay sex in all its forms Dan why do you think that might be? Uk laws I agree do not see a differnece.

Public attitudes, media reporting do.

They seem to ignore heterosexual crusing in favour of an obssession with gay sex in all its forms

Dan why do you think that might be?

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]]> By: Loveable Lefty http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50894 Loveable Lefty Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:17:48 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50894 Personally I think I should be free to wander wherever I like without having to worry about people gay or straight having sex. What has happened to our basic sense of decency and dignity? That said, I have never ever come across any sexual activities in any public place - despite sometimes being in places that I subsequently discovered to be cruising grounds - so I suspect this whole issue is massively over hyped. But if it happens at all it's still wrong. We're not children who can't control themselves, after all. Personally I think I should be free to wander wherever I like without having to worry about people gay or straight having sex.

What has happened to our basic sense of decency and dignity?

That said, I have never ever come across any sexual activities in any public place – despite sometimes being in places that I subsequently discovered to be cruising grounds – so I suspect this whole issue is massively over hyped.

But if it happens at all it's still wrong. We're not children who can't control themselves, after all.

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]]> By: Dan http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50866 Dan Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:32:33 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50866 John K - that is merely a point of view, not a fact. UK laws don't see a difference between gay or straight public sex. Where do you take your facts that heterosexual dogging is less organised than gay cruising? I believe that is just conjecture and makes little difference to the central argument. John K – that is merely a point of view, not a fact. UK laws don't see a difference between gay or straight public sex.

Where do you take your facts that heterosexual dogging is less organised than gay cruising? I believe that is just conjecture and makes little difference to the central argument.

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]]> By: John K http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50839 John K Wed, 29 Apr 2009 23:25:37 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50839 Dan wrote "So, just because heterosexuals get involved in cruising/dogging, that makes it better does it, John K? No-one is protecting thrill seeking heterosexuals for dogging - it's looked upon as generally crass and distasteful. Even sad. Like gay men cruising." Dan thank you for your comment on my thread. I am not doing any moralising on whether gay of heterosexual cruising is right or wrong. What I am interested is hypocrisy. It seems to me that heterosexual cruising is hardly ever addressed, mentioned or met with the hysteria surrounding homosexual cruising, even though heterosexual cruising is clearly more prevalent and exceptional well organised. . . Is that not a case of collective denial and projection on to gays? Dan wrote

"So, just because heterosexuals get involved in cruising/dogging, that makes it better does it, John K?

No-one is protecting thrill seeking heterosexuals for dogging – it's looked upon as generally crass and distasteful. Even sad.

Like gay men cruising."

Dan thank you for your comment on my thread.

I am not doing any moralising on whether gay of heterosexual cruising is right or wrong.

What I am interested is hypocrisy.
It seems to me that heterosexual cruising is hardly ever addressed, mentioned or met with the hysteria surrounding homosexual cruising, even though heterosexual cruising is clearly more prevalent and exceptional well organised. . .

Is that not a case of collective denial and projection
on to gays?

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]]> By: Dan http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50836 Dan Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:33:23 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50836 So, just because heterosexuals get involved in cruising/dogging, that makes it better does it, John K? No-one is protecting thrill seeking heterosexuals for dogging - it's looked upon as generally crass and distasteful. Even sad. Like gay men cruising. So, just because heterosexuals get involved in cruising/dogging, that makes it better does it, John K?

No-one is protecting thrill seeking heterosexuals for dogging – it's looked upon as generally crass and distasteful. Even sad.

Like gay men cruising.

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]]> By: John (Derbyshire http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50830 John (Derbyshire Wed, 29 Apr 2009 21:00:48 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50830 Dan-the very act of having "a wank in the bushes" IS a part of gay culture. Gay cruising goes back centuries! Who wants to hang round noisey bars all night or mess about on Gaydar-when you can get a spontaneous and mutually satisfying liaison "behind the bushes" -where both parties are "up for it"! Dan-the very act of having "a wank in the bushes" IS a part of gay culture. Gay cruising goes back centuries! Who wants to hang round noisey bars all night or mess about on Gaydar-when you can get a spontaneous and mutually satisfying liaison "behind the bushes" -where both parties are "up for it"!

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]]> By: John K http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50814 John K Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:49:20 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50814 Charlene Wrote "It seems a bit zoo-like. Children, nature lovers, homos. Come and look but please dont feed." Charlene I burst out laughing when I read your thread, so funny . . . are you a comedienne . . . if not . . . why not. . . . Hilarious. Seriously Why do people get so worked up over gay cruising. . . ? Why do people very rarely mention heterosexual cruising? I think we cannot ignore this . . . and if we are then why are we colluding to protect heterosexuals I did some research recently by exploring the scale of heterosexual cruising . . . did you now that most supermarket car parks in London are dogging sites. Homosexual cruising is a needle in the hay stack so to speak compared with heterosexuality. In my view the real issue here is . . . HYPOCRISY Charlene Wrote

"It seems a bit zoo-like. Children, nature lovers, homos. Come and look but please dont feed."

Charlene I burst out laughing when I read your thread, so funny . . . are you a comedienne . . . if not . . . why not. . . . Hilarious.

Seriously
Why do people get so worked up over gay cruising. . . ?
Why do people very rarely mention heterosexual cruising?

I think we cannot ignore this . . . and if we are then why are we colluding to protect heterosexuals

I did some research recently by exploring the scale of heterosexual cruising . . . did you now that most supermarket car parks in London are dogging sites.

Homosexual cruising is a needle in the hay stack so to speak compared with heterosexuality.

In my view the real issue here is . . . HYPOCRISY

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]]> By: Dan http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50813 Dan Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:44:07 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50813 John (Derbyshire) - I hear outdated views. A huge proportion of people have access or can get access to the web, for example. If you can make time to have sex in bushes, you can make time to use a computer or got to a bar to cruise. No excuse! Your perspective suggests internalised homophobia. Don't you think the very expression of our sexuality deserves more than a wank in some undergrowth? John (Derbyshire) – I hear outdated views. A huge proportion of people have access or can get access to the web, for example. If you can make time to have sex in bushes, you can make time to use a computer or got to a bar to cruise. No excuse!

Your perspective suggests internalised homophobia. Don't you think the very expression of our sexuality deserves more than a wank in some undergrowth?

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]]> By: John (Derbyshire http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50810 John (Derbyshire Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:30:51 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50810 Do any of you think gay men will ever stop cruising for sex? Its a basic fact of gay life. For years gay men have been pilloried for having sex in areas other than behind locked doors and in private. Many men have committed suicide for having been "discovered" doing nothing more than performing a simple bodily function in a "non-designated area". Most gay men do not want to be seen by anyone-thats why they go to great lengths to keep out of public view. Like "the oldest profession in the world" while gay and bi-sexual men exist-some of them will always cruise for sex. Its no good moralising like Mary Whitehouses- get real like the Dutch authorities. Do any of you think gay men will ever stop cruising for sex? Its a basic fact of gay life. For years gay men have been pilloried for having sex in areas other than behind locked doors and in private. Many men have committed suicide for having been "discovered" doing nothing more than performing a simple bodily function in a "non-designated area". Most gay men do not want to be seen by anyone-thats why they go to great lengths to keep out of public view. Like "the oldest profession in the world" while gay and bi-sexual men exist-some of them will always cruise for sex. Its no good moralising like Mary Whitehouses- get real like the Dutch authorities.

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]]> By: Andrew http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50800 Andrew Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:46:47 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50800 I agree with the majority of the comments here - public sex really shouldn't be tolerated, it's simply not necessary in this day and age. However, I do wonder what the signs would look like. . . I agree with the majority of the comments here – public sex really shouldn't be tolerated, it's simply not necessary in this day and age.

However, I do wonder what the signs would look like. . .

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]]> By: Flapjack http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50792 Flapjack Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:12:09 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50792 Andy, Mihai, Simon, Dan - I have to agree here. If we expect equality then we can't be seen to get away with stuff straight people wouldn't. I'm not such a prude that I don't imagine both gay people and straight people do this all the time, but in both cases it's illegal and if caught you spend a night in the cells. There are many other places to pick up a date these days, so there's no actual need for it beyond illicit thrillseeking. Can you imagine how it would be if straight people put up signs for designated dogging areas in country road lay-bys? It's not homophobic to expect us to do our business somewhere private. Andy, Mihai, Simon, Dan – I have to agree here. If we expect equality then we can't be seen to get away with stuff straight people wouldn't.
I'm not such a prude that I don't imagine both gay people and straight people do this all the time, but in both cases it's illegal and if caught you spend a night in the cells. There are many other places to pick up a date these days, so there's no actual need for it beyond illicit thrillseeking.
Can you imagine how it would be if straight people put up signs for designated dogging areas in country road lay-bys? It's not homophobic to expect us to do our business somewhere private.

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]]> By: Simon Murphy http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50775 Simon Murphy Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:45:25 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50775 People cruise for the thrill of it. There is absolutely no necessity in the modern world to engage in cruising other than for the thrill of it. If you want to have anonymous sex you can meet someone online; hire an escort; go to a sauna; go to a club. It is not like 50 years ago where there was genuinely few places to meet other men. I am against this proposal. It will increase homophobic attacks. This cruising ground is in a Muslim neighbourhood and considerintg that the increase in homophobic attacks in Amsterdam is thanks to Muslim youth this new plan will tell them where to look for victims. People cruise for the thrill of it. There is absolutely no necessity in the modern world to engage in cruising other than for the thrill of it. If you want to have anonymous sex you can meet someone online; hire an escort; go to a sauna; go to a club. It is not like 50 years ago where there was genuinely few places to meet other men.

I am against this proposal. It will increase homophobic attacks. This cruising ground is in a Muslim neighbourhood and considerintg that the increase in homophobic attacks in Amsterdam is thanks to Muslim youth this new plan will tell them where to look for victims.

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]]> By: Dan http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50772 Dan Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:13:57 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50772 Absolutely agree with the first post. Signs will just increase gay-bashing. Gay men that cruise need to understand why the feel compelled to do it - it's simple fact that cruising is not necessary in 2009, to live a fulfilling and thrilling life, so why do men do it? Raise the game, public sex is bad for you and the community in so many ways. Apart from the, purely selfish, thrill factor, what good comes of it? Absolutely agree with the first post. Signs will just increase gay-bashing. Gay men that cruise need to understand why the feel compelled to do it – it's simple fact that cruising is not necessary in 2009, to live a fulfilling and thrilling life, so why do men do it?

Raise the game, public sex is bad for you and the community in so many ways. Apart from the, purely selfish, thrill factor, what good comes of it?

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]]> By: Mihai Bucur http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50768 Mihai Bucur Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:27:11 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50768 re John: the analogy between gay people cruising and straight people picking up in nightclubs is flawed. Gay people can also "seek like minded friends" through a variety of media that do not involve public sex. There are a range of institutions that parallel straight ones, such as gay nightclubs, online dating sites, and for more casual encounters, sex-on-premises venues. Prosecuting sex in public is not necessarily homophobic, since the law applies equally to both gay and straight couples (and straight couples too often choose to have public sex). Equality runs both ways, and if we want equal rights in things like marriage, we have to break the association between gays and public sex, or the acceptability in gay culture of cruising in parks and public toilets. Putting up signs specifying that an area is frequented by gays crusing either suggests that gays are getting "special rights" or that cruising is a specifically gay thing. re John: the analogy between gay people cruising and straight people picking up in nightclubs is flawed. Gay people can also "seek like minded friends" through a variety of media that do not involve public sex. There are a range of institutions that parallel straight ones, such as gay nightclubs, online dating sites, and for more casual encounters, sex-on-premises venues.

Prosecuting sex in public is not necessarily homophobic, since the law applies equally to both gay and straight couples (and straight couples too often choose to have public sex).

Equality runs both ways, and if we want equal rights in things like marriage, we have to break the association between gays and public sex, or the acceptability in gay culture of cruising in parks and public toilets.

Putting up signs specifying that an area is frequented by gays crusing either suggests that gays are getting "special rights" or that cruising is a specifically gay thing.

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]]> By: Charlene http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50761 Charlene Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:39:08 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50761 It seems a bit zoo-like. Children, nature lovers, homos. Come and look but please dont feed. It seems a bit zoo-like. Children, nature lovers, homos. Come and look but please dont feed.

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]]> By: John (Derbyshire http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50760 John (Derbyshire Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:32:21 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50760 I disagree Andy. I think this is a good decision - because it will define specific areas where gay men can be left to cruise in peace. The trouble with the UK is that there are no designated areas where we can cruise in the knowledge we won`t be a)Queerbashed b) Police-bashed with stop notices,ASBO`s and threats of cautions if we are ever "caught" frequenting that area again. It would define our rights to seek out like-minded friends- in the same way that straights can pick up girls in nightclubs etc. I disagree Andy. I think this is a good decision – because it will define specific areas where gay men can be left to cruise in peace. The trouble with the UK is that there are no designated areas where we can cruise in the knowledge we won`t be a)Queerbashed b) Police-bashed with stop notices,ASBO`s and threats of cautions if we are ever "caught" frequenting that area again. It would define our rights to seek out like-minded friends- in the same way that straights can pick up girls in nightclubs etc.

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]]> By: Andy http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html/comment-page-1/#comment-50753 Andy Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:00:41 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12212.html#comment-50753 Ultimately, I think this will provoke homophobia and is a bad move. If all gay men in such parks were doing was cruising each other and then taking it indoors it wouldn't be an issue. But tolerance is a two way street and park sex is showing a lack of respect and tolerance to the communities we live in and who tolerate us. Time to lift your game, chaps. Ultimately, I think this will provoke homophobia and is a bad move. If all gay men in such parks were doing was cruising each other and then taking it indoors it wouldn't be an issue. But tolerance is a two way street and park sex is showing a lack of respect and tolerance to the communities we live in and who tolerate us. Time to lift your game, chaps.

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