I am very aware Fred Phelps is a tiny tiny minority. But can you argue him wrong theologically, or is it that you just don't like the way he says it?

"Second, you are not interested in evidence."
Goodness me….. This is a silly remark, because when asked to present evidence FOR something, you present nothing! You presented no evidence on longevity of gay relationships. You seemed oblivious to the fact that the ONLY people considered for the survey were males under 30, being treated for STDs in Amsterdam (which, you will be surprized to learn, is not the whole of Holland) and that long-term relationships were excluded. The survey had no intention in making any claim about the gay population as a whole. And that ridiculous claim about gay marriage fizzling out in Holland isn't true. You ignore the bare facts when I present them, from the source, under your nose. You are the one putting your fingers in your ears like a silly child, not me.

You are the one who claims to know everything, not me. You claim to know demons exists, with no evidence. You claim to how the Cosmos was designed, and who was responsible. Your responsibility to back your claim up. Not mine to disprove you.

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On your assumptions, we have to tell you that Fred represents no one but himself and the small band that follow him. Sorry to burst your bubble. I would advise you to drop your penchance of using him as an example. After all, he is only a a very, very, very small minority.

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Its anger which breeds contempt and it is your problem not mine.

TP – You spend all your time exposing yourself as a moron

You spend all your time exposing your truth phobia. The dictionary says that a moron is a person who is mentally deficient with an IQ between 50 and 75. My IQ is 120.

TP – Do you expect me to take you seriously when you think the book of Genesis is a real historical account?

You don’t take anyone seriously unless they agree with you.

TP – . If you make ridiculous claims, like demons exist based on no evidence,

I am waiting for you to prove there are no demons.

TP – Can't cope with criticism or even questioning and being asked to provide evidence, can you?

Neither can you. I have asked you for evidence elsewhere but I am still waiting

TP – . I'm asking you to give evidence, because I am not taking your word for it, which is what you are asking people to do.

First, you give the impression that you know everything so why ask me for the answer to something that you already know. Second, you are not interested in evidence. All you are interested in is being supercilious and childish with a response which is basically “you can’t be right because you disagree with me.” As the bible says you don’t cast pearls before swine (pigs).

TP – You've presented a small band of people who have disrupted a church service, once. There is no evidence they represent anyone other than themselves.

As usual you deny everything and try and make yourself and the homonazi movement look like angels. It is a classic example of ignoring evidence when it is presented to you. if you think Bash Back are a small band of people you are living in denial, but them I should not be surprised at that because the whole homonazi movement is based on denial.

CHESTER – I don't see why faith schools should be allowed to get away with homophobia religion can't be above the law

Faith schools do not have any homophobia religion. I have not come across any faith school that is afraid of homosexuals. They are not above the law because the law allows them to employ staff that shares their religious beliefs. The faith school that I taught in was not afraid of homosexuals and the one homosexual student that we had was treated no differently to anyone else. He certainly was not bullied as no one at the school was bullied as the Christian way of life that they taught and practiced meant that this did not happen.

Sorry to burst you bubble, but you have been led up the garden path by the gaystapo who want you to believe that what they say is gospel, whereas most of it is a bunch of lies and a product of anger and rejection.

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I don't see why faith schools should be allowed to get away with homophobia

religion can't be above the law

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It's contempt, not anger. You spend all your time exposing yourself as a moron, I'm just spelling out the obvious. You spend all your time accusing anyone who disagrees with you as being a Nazi. You make the most stupid claims – I ask you again, how old do you believe the Earth to be? Do you expect me to take you seriously when you think the book of Genesis is a real historical account?

Freedom of speech goes two ways. If you make ridiculous claims, like demons exist based on no evidence, then face the consequences and expect ridicule. Get over it. Why should your beliefs be wrapped up in cotton wool? Can't cope with criticism or even questioning and being asked to provide evidence, can you?

I ask again, how do you know the mind of god? How do you know his plan for me as well as for you? You make these arrogant claims, not I. I'm asking you to give evidence, because I am not taking your word for it, which is what you are asking people to do. When you cannot give an answer, then do the decent thing and say so.

"I will rephrase that as your grasp of English is obviously lacking."
You said 'you' – I don't speak for anyone else.

"You and your homonazi mates do it all the time with your nonsensical attempts at ridicule and their penchance to physically attack anyone who is not on their Christmas card list as I have shown in the previous post."
- You've done no such thing. You've presented a small band of people who have disrupted a church service, once. There is no evidence they represent anyone other than themselves. I don't see hundreds of thousands of gay people storming into churches. Where is this happening? I see a lot of people exercising their first amendment rights to protest church bigotry at anti-Prop 8 rallies.

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 I will rephrase that as your grasp of English is obviously lacking. You and your homonazi mates do it all the time with your nonsensical attempts at ridicule and their penchance to physically attack anyone who is not on their Christmas card list as I have shown in the previous post.

TP – Ridicule is called freedom of speech, why whine?? get over it. Stop being so hypersensitive.

 Why do you and your homonazi mates spend so much time and energy trying to silence those that don’t bow and scrape to your gospel according to the gaystapo? You obviously need to get over it and stop whining and being so hypersensitive about people having a different view to you.

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an ignoramus and hysterical nitwit.

Whining like an injured dog,

whacko nonsense.

Satan adjusted the figures

Hysterical – yes

mania, a hysteria

Nitwit

Any chance you could write something intelligent that is not a product of your anger?

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It obviously wasn’t you.

TP – tomorrow in astronomical terms.

What you might call an astronomical figment of your imagination.

TP – Andromeda is coming our way and will collide with the solar system in just 2 billion years

Evidence please (your opinion is not evidence).

TP – I can't disprove there is a teapot orbiting Mars,

You can’t!!!! I thought the gaystapo knew everything.

TP – I can't disprove leprechauns and elves

Obviously your education was woefully deficient.

TP – , like most reports on Fox News today?

And like most of what the homonazi write.

TP – I have no idea what it is like to know the mind of God on such matters,

Of course you don’t. How can you when according to you he doesn’t exist? A bit like me saying “I know what my dad thinks” and you say “no you don’t as he doesn’t exist.” Homonazi fairy tales.

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- You do it all the time with your nonsensical attempts at ridicule and physically attacking people not on your Christmas card list as I have shown in previous posts.

> ??? I attack no-one physically. What are you talking about? Ridicule is called freedom of speech, why whine?? get over it. Stop being so hypersensitive.

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"We true American citizens are going to be watching you and your organization closely now. Many Christians are just now realizing who the real enemy is, and there is no doubt — whatsoever — our #1 enemy in America is Morris Dees and his Southern Poverty Law Center. We Christians are watching you closely now."

"I hope all of you who had anything to do with removing the Ten Commandments die in a car accident with a fuel tanker along with the rest of your filthy, stinking, traitorous families!"

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Telling the magazine that he was asked why he did not give “credit” to God, Attenborough added: “They always mean beautiful things like hummingbirds. I always reply by saying that I think of a little child in east Africa with a worm burrowing through his eyeball. The worm cannot live in any other way, except by burrowing through eyeballs. I find that hard to reconcile with the notion of a divine and benevolent creator.”

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Yes, you're wrong – you've been rumbled, because the E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E says so. The evidence – the real numbers which show numbers of gay marriages in the Netherlands (that's a country next to Germany, just in case you didn't know), going 'up' (increasing, going in the opposite direction of 'down'). Is evidence and facts ideology? I never knew.

Oh I know – Satan adjusted the figures, just like he planted all the fossils showing how we evolved over billions of years, in the ground, just to fool us. How silly of me, well now it all makes sense!

Hysterical – yes. You seem to suffer from a mania, a hysteria, in which you imagine everyone is out to get you. Everybody is wrong but you, of course.

Nitwit – please, for entertainment's sake, how old is the Universe again?

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I can’t. I am in a kindergarten with you lot so I have to talk gibberish to enable you to understand.

“Firstly, answering in block capitals is what little children do…”

And when have you done anything that is not childish?

It just shows you have run out of excuses…

Excuses for what?

“Because when anyone asks you about where the stats come from, or how the data was collected, all you can do is offer playground insults….”

That’s because I am talking to insecure children.

“he cannot tolerate anyone who might even hint at his being wrong….”

Neither can you but your anger prevents you from seeing the obvious.

“And 'silence you'? Where have I asked for you to be banned?…”

You do it all the time with your nonsensical attempts at ridicule and physically attacking people not on your Christmas card list as I have shown in previous posts.

“Feel free to show the Internet community how stupid you are…”

I can’t. You have got a monopoly on that.

“The stats on Dutch marriage are wrong…”

Of course they are. Everything that doesn’t agree with the gaystapo’s take on things is always wrong and the only people who haven’t realised that is the gaystapo.

You're wrong – you've been rumbled, now act like an adult and stop screaming and shouting and stamping your feet and accusing everyone of being a Nazi because they disagree with you.

A bit like the pot calling the kettle black don’t you think judging by these pathetic responses of you and your mates…..

Another dim witted fundamentalist believes in demons and possession.

when all religofacists suffer from realityphobia.

UP YOURS, YOU CLAPPED OUT TERRORIST. WHY DO YOU INSIST ON SHITTING IN YOUR OWN NEST?

O dear . . . More deranged Fundamentalist Christian Rantings
And hypocrisy is the staple diet of poorly educated religious people and bigots.

hysterical nitwit

whine like injured dogs,

“Oh yeah. I don't answer for some guy in michigan.”

Of course not because he would queer your pitch wouldn’t he being a whining homo.

You base all your claims on anecdote – 6 radical nutcases, and someone complaining of hurt feelings.

Your truthphobia is showing as these exerts will show….

“The first Bash Back! Convergence was held in April 2008. The goal of the convergence was to form ideas for the upcoming DNC/RNC protests, and discuss the formation of new Bash Back! chapters in other regions of the country. As a result, groups in Milwaukee, Memphis, Denver, Lansing, and upstate New York sprung up as new chapters.”

According to you, they have one member per chapter. Not a very effective organisation are they?

“In response, Bash Back! Milwaukee planned a confrontation of the hate group.[5] A group of more than twenty confronted members of the NSM, carrying a banner proclaiming "These Faggots Kill Fascists."[6]

They obviously don’t know they have only six members.

About 20 protestors gathered for a dance party at the front doors of the fundraiser with signs such as “HRC Is Not For Me” and “Stonewall Was a Riot”.[16]

How do they do it with only six members?

“The Amsterdam study says nothing…..”

Of course it doesn’t not when it disagrees with your ideology. But then that is the nature of ideology – deny everything.

“I could give hundreds of examples of hypersensitive Christians doing similar things like that…”

Your truthphobia is showing. I doubt if you can give me ten, let alone hundreds.

“see BoxTurtleBulletin for citations..”

And you expect me to accept the machinations of a homosexual magazine as evidence? You do live in a little world of your own don’t you!!!

Satan? What evidence have you got for 'satan'

YOU!!!!

“If people use babyish insults like 'gaystapo', it just shows a weakness from the beginning.”

And if people use babyish insults like “hysterical nitwit” and “religofascists” it shows a weakness from the beginning.

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RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society, contributing towards high murder rates, abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide, according to research published today.

According to the study, belief in and worship of God are not only unnecessary for a healthy society but may actually contribute to social problems.

The study counters the view of believers that religion is necessary to provide the moral and ethical foundations of a healthy society.

It compares the social peformance of relatively secular countries, such as Britain, with the US, where the majority believes in a creator rather than the theory of evolution. Many conservative evangelicals in the US consider Darwinism to be a social evil, believing that it inspires atheism and amorality.

Many liberal Christians and believers of other faiths hold that religious belief is socially beneficial, believing that it helps to lower rates of violent crime, murder, suicide, sexual promiscuity and abortion. The benefits of religious belief to a society have been described as its “spiritual capital”. But the study claims that the devotion of many in the US may actually contribute to its ills.

The paper, published in the Journal of Religion and Society, a US academic journal, reports: “Many Americans agree that their churchgoing nation is an exceptional, God-blessed, shining city on the hill that stands as an impressive example for an increasingly sceptical world.

“In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies.

“The United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developing democracies, sometimes spectacularly so.”

Gregory Paul, the author of the study and a social scientist, used data from the International Social Survey Programme, Gallup and other research bodies to reach his conclusions.

He compared social indicators such as murder rates, abortion, suicide and teenage pregnancy.

The study concluded that the US was the world’s only prosperous democracy where murder rates were still high, and that the least devout nations were the least dysfunctional. Mr Paul said that rates of gonorrhoea in adolescents in the US were up to 300 times higher than in less devout democratic countries. The US also suffered from “ uniquely high” adolescent and adult syphilis infection rates, and adolescent abortion rates, the study suggested.

Mr Paul said: “The study shows that England, despite the social ills it has, is actually performing a good deal better than the USA in most indicators, even though it is now a much less religious nation than America.”

He said that the disparity was even greater when the US was compared with other countries, including France, Japan and the Scandinavian countries. These nations had been the most successful in reducing murder rates, early mortality, sexually transmitted diseases and abortion, he added.

Mr Paul delayed releasing the study until now because of Hurricane Katrina. He said that the evidence accumulated by a number of different studies suggested that religion might actually contribute to social ills. “I suspect that Europeans are increasingly repelled by the poor societal performance of the Christian states,” he added.

He said that most Western nations would become more religious only if the theory of evolution could be overturned and the existence of God scientifically proven. Likewise, the theory of evolution would not enjoy majority support in the US unless there was a marked decline in religious belief, Mr Paul said.

“The non-religious, proevolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society cannot enjoy good conditions unless most citizens ardently believe in a moral creator.

“The widely held fear that a Godless citizenry must experience societal disaster is therefore refuted.”

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It's a difficult question. The guy in Michigan should lose his case on grounds that feelings are not to be protected. I don't care about your feelings, and you don't care about mine – that's perfectly fine. Evidence, reason and logic are the only ways to reach the truth. If people use babyish insults like 'gaystapo', it just shows a weakness from the beginning.

On hurt feelings: for excample, if I burn a copy of Joseph Smith's celebrated fictional work, the Book of Mormon, and throw it at the door of an LDS Temple, or hurl a copy of a Gideons Bible out of the window, I expect to be prosecuted – but for no other offence than that of litter: the crime is no greater than discarding a cigarette-butt.

Equally, if I push a middle aged lady's sponge cross over at an anti-Prop8 demonstration, no harm is done, because sponge can be trampled on, spat on, and it still returns to form. And indeed it did.

If you think it's OK to use personal insults against LGBT people who disagree with you, then you must allow me to hurt others' feelings too. In for a penny, in for a pound.

However, if the guy in michigan had pressed charges against the publishers for incitement to hatred, he might have a very good case. I am amazed when everyone is up in arms about Fred Phelps. You cannot fault him on any theological point. So what if he says you have to hate fags? He's right, and it's hypocritical of any Christian to argue otherwise. The Bible says, you have to hate fags. The Bible does call for the stoning to death of homosexuals in Leviticus.

Afro Carribean descendents of slaves might want to claim damages for quoting St Paul in Ephesians 6:5, supporting slavery, or quoting Leviticus 25:44-46. I suggest they do so, because the Confederate states used biblical reasoning to continue the practice of slavery.

PS How old are you? You argue like a teenager. I have had intense arguments with fundamentalist christians before. While they are certain I am going to 'hell' for not believing in their canonical texts, they at least don't disgrace themselves with petty playground insults.

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- Stop behaving like a stupid baby. Firstly, answering in block capitals is what little children do. It just shows you have run out of excuses. Because when anyone asks you about where the stats come from, or how the data was collected, all you can do is offer playground insults. And 'silence you'? Where have I asked for you to be banned? Feel free to show the Internet community how stupid you are. We can go on to 10,000 posts if you like.

You've quoted 2 statistics now, that say absolutely nothing about gay people. The stats on Dutch marriage are wrong. I checked with the original source, the CBS. So you get your facts right in future. You're wrong – you've been rumbled, now act like an adult and stop screaming and shouting and stamping your feet and accusing everyone of being a Nazi because they disagree with you. The evidence is not on your side at all.

Oh yeah. I don't answer for some guy in michigan. I could give hundreds of examples of hypersensitive Christians doing similar things like that. You base all your claims on anecdote – 6 radical nutcases, and someone complaining of hurt feelings.

The Amsterdam study says nothing because the sample was in no way a cross-section of gay people. All under 29, excluding anyone in a monogamous relationship, only those with STDs, it was compiled in 1999, before gay marriage arrived.

The authors never tried to claim that it was true for gay men as a whole. It is another example of data misinterpreted by religious nutcases like Donald Wildmon, and unquestioningly lapped up by ignoramuses like you.

WHY THE DUTCH STUDY SAYS NOTHING ABOUT GAY RELATIONSHIPS (SEE ABOVE FOR MORE DETAILED VERSION; see BoxTurtleBulletin for citations)
"It turns out this “Dutch Study” was performed by a team of researchers led by Dr. Maria Xiradou that appeared in the May 2, 2003 issue of the journal AIDS. And what is the title of that study? “The contribution of steady and casual partnerships in the incidence of HIV infection among homosexual men in Amsterdam.”5

Dr. Xiridou and her colleagues based their research article on the Amsterdam Cohort Studies of HIV infection and AIDS among homosexually active men. These studies began in 1984, and had several different protocols in their lifetime:

Oct 1984-1985: Gay men aged 18-65 with at least two sexual partners in the previous six months. In other words, monogamous partners were explicitly excluded.
April 1985-Feb 1988: Study enrollment was continued, except HIV-negative men were now excluded. Only HIV-positive men were added.
Feb 1988 – Dec 1988: The study was re-opened to HIV-negative men.
Various additional enrollments continued from through 1998. Especially notable was a special recruitment campaign for men under the age of thirty beginning in 1995. After 1996, all HIV-negative men above the age of thirty were dropped from the study. Their data was excluded from subsequent analyses.
Nobody outside of Amsterdam was accepted into the study except for AIDS patients who attended clinics in Amsterdam for treatment. This makes the study almost exclusively an urban one.
Dr. Xiridou and colleagues used a smaller subset of this population by further excluding everyone under the age of thirty.

So, what do we have? We have a study population that was heavily weighted with HIV/AIDS patients, excluded monogamous participants, was predominantly urban, and consisted only of those under the age of thirty. While this population was good for the purposes of the study, it was in no way representative of Amsterdam’s gay men, let alone gay men anywhere else.

This turns out to be a very common tactic among anti-gay extremists. Because they’re eager to portray their positions as being backed by scientific research, they often turn to medical studies to support their arguments. And they are especially fond of studies of HIV/AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases (STD’s), which they can count on to provide especially juicy statistics to describe “what homosexuals do”. But of course, all you really learn from these studies is what some homosexuals do — the ones who go to STD clinics because they’ve picked up a disease. By turning to Dr. Xiridou’s study, these activists are following a well-worn path."

Satan? What evidence have you got for 'satan', and how do you know what he is planning? Or is it another figment of your crazed mind?

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If you don't compare like with like, it's junk information. It's a basic rule of sampling, which you are totally unaware of.
THAT’S YOUR OPINION WHICH HAS AS JUST ABOUT AS MUCH AUTHORITY AS GARFIELD THE CAT.

Either quote from a real scientific, peer reviewed journal, or don't waste your breath.
WHICH SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL DO I QUOTE FOR THE SCIENCE OF LOVE?

- The values of excluding people for who they are, for no reason whatsoever. That's bigotry. It will change though.
NO MR PERFECT, THEY ARE NOT EXCLUDING PEOPLE. AS USUAL YOUR REJECTION DOESN’T ALLOW YOU TO SEE THE OBVIOUS. THEY ASKED THAT THEY BE ALLOWED TO FULFILL THEIR OBLIGATIONS UNDER THEIR CHARTER OF PURPOSE. ANYONE CAN JOIN AS A SCOUT BUT AS IN ALL CASES OF EMPLOYMENT, DISCRIMINATION HAPPENS ALL THE TIME TO ENSURE THAT THE BEST PEOPLE FOR THE JOB ARE HIRED. APART FROM THE FACT THAT COURT RULED IN THEIR FAVOUR, BUT AS WE KNOW ALL TOO WELL, THE COURT IS ALWAYS WRONG ULESS IT RULES IN YOUR FAVOUR.

- Believing in fairy stories based on no evidence is stupid, period.
THEN WHY DO YOU DO IT ALL THE TIME?

Bash Back: 6 people is not a mass movement. For that matter, daubing insults on churches is hardly Kristallnacht. Get over it and stop wallowing in self pity.
BASH BACK IS MORE THAN 6 PEOPLE WHICH YOU KNOW BUT IN YOUR STUPIDITY TO ABSOLVE YOUR BUDDIES AGRESSION AND ANGER YOU HOPE THAT YOUR LIES WILL GET TRACTION, SO STOP WALLOWING IN DENIAL..

- You are wrong and won't admit it when the facts are right in your face.
THIS COMMENT PROVES WHAT I SAID. ONE THING I HAVE NOTICED IS THAT THE GAYSTAPO AVOIDS FACTS AT ALL COST.

- No one is forcing you to believe anything. No one is forcing your church to make any concession to gay people.
“A Michigan man is seeking millions in compensation from two Christian publishers for emotional distress and mental instability he received from Bible’s referring to homosexuality as a sin. Bradley LaShawn Fowler says his constitutional rights were infringed by both Zondervan Publishing Co. and Thomas Nelson Publishing who he claims deliberately caused homosexuals to suffer by misinterpretation of the Bible. Fowler, 39, is seeking $60 million from Zondervan and another $10 million from Thomas Nelson. Zondervan has stated that he’s suing the wrong party whether his claims are credible or not because the publishing house does not translate the Bible nor do they own the copyright for the translations.”
OBVIOUSLY YOU DON’T USE THE SAME DICTIONARY AS EVERYONE ELSE.

You are the one forcing your prejudices into law, and interfering in the lives of others, for no reason other than you don't like the fact they are being acknowledged. How many gay people do you actually know to make any statement on the matter?
"The U.S. House today approved a federal "hate crimes" bill that would provide special protections to homosexuals but leave Christian ministers open to prosecution should their teachings be linked to any subsequent offense, by anyone, against a "gay."
The vote, 249-175, came despite intense from Republicans who argued the measure would create a privileged class."
SEEMS TO ME THAT THE GAYSTAPO ARE DOING THE INTERFERING.

Many religious fanatics, like the hysterical nitwit posting in the thread above, whine like injured dogs, claiming that anyone who disagrees with him is a Nazi (note the babyish references to gay people as 'gaystapo') He cannot tolerate people who are diffeent, he cannot tolerate anyone who might even hint at his being wrong.
NEITHER CAN YOU, BUT YOU ARE TOO BLIND TO SEE THE OBVIOUS. IF THAT WERE NOT THE CASE, WHY DO YOU DEVOTE SO MUCH ENERGY TRYING TO SILENCE THOSE THAT DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU AS IN…
“After staging a demonstration outside Mount Hope Church to draw most of the security staff away from the worship service, protestors masked as congregants stood up in the middle of the service, "declared themselves fags and began screaming loudly,” Bash Back leaders said in a statement posted online.

The protestors pulled the fire alarm and threw thousands of fliers into the congregation, while a gay couple rushed to the front and began kissing in front of the pastor. "Let it be known: So long as bigots kill us in the streets, this pack of wolves will continue to BASH BACK!" the group said in a statement about the incident.”
VERY TOLERANT DON’T YOU THINK!!! OF COURSE TOLERANCE TO YOU MEANS AGREEING WITH EVERYTHING THE GAYSTAPO SAYS AND DEMANDS.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The reason people don't take their claims seriously, is that there is no evidence to back up their claims. When you check their claims, you easily find distortions, manipulated data, and worse, made up.
JUST LIKE THE GAYSTAPO DO.

And when you scratch below the surface, you find these reports are put together by people with a religious agenda, and which appear in religious publications that have nothing to do with science or sociology.
JUT LIKE THE GAYSTAPO DO. JUST REPLACE RELIGIOUS WITH HOMOSEXUAL.

The claim that gay relationships are shortlived and non monogomous is a classic one. Like all these lies, they have been investigated, and proved to be nonsense.
"As Canada and several U.S. states move toward the legalization of so-called homosexual "marriage," a new study has found that homosexual partnerships last, on average, only one-and-a-half years. The study is based on the health records of young Dutch homosexuals by Dr. Maria Xiridou of the Amsterdam Municipal Health Service and published in the May issue of the journal AIDS. It also found that men in homosexual relationships have an average of eight partners a year outside their main partnership, adding more evidence to the "stereotype" that homosexuals tend to be promiscuous."
YOUR RESPONSE IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF FACIST GAYSTAPO WHO BELIEVE “IT CAN’T BE THE TRUTH BECAUSE WE DISAGREE WITH IT AND PAINTS US IN A BAD LIGHT.” TO SHOW HOW RIDICULOUS YOUR STATEMENTS ARE THE STUDY SAID THAT MEN IN HOMOSEXUALS RELATIONSHIPS (IT DID NOT SAY MARRIED) AND YET YOU SAY THEY DIDN’T TALK TO MEN IN RELATIONSHIPS. HOW STUPID A COMMENT IS THAT? HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU PUBLISH FACTS ABOUT SOMEONE IF YOU NEVER TALKED TO THEM?

OH I KNOW. THE SCIENTIFIC AND MEDICAL COMMUNITY IS FULL OF EXPERTS WHO FABRICATE THEIR DATA FULL OF STUFF ABOUT PEOPLE THEY DON’T TALK TO SO THAT THEY CAN GET GRANTS FROM THE GOVERNMENT TO DO THEIR WORK AND TO ENABLE THEM MORE TIME TO SPEND BY THE POOL SIPPING THEIR MARTINIS.

I HAVE TO ADMIT ONE THING. SATAN REALLY HAS SCREWED UP YOUR BRAIN INTO BELIEVING THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG. IT MUST BE PAINFUL HAVING SUCH AN ADDLED BRAIN AND HAVING TO SPEND ALL YOUR TIME AVOIDING REALITY. BUT I GUESS THAT IS WHAT REJECTION DOES TO YOU. IT IS KNOWN AS A DEFENSIVE DETACHMENT.

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Many religious fanatics, like the hysterical nitwit posting in the thread above, whine like injured dogs, claiming that anyone who disagrees with him is a Nazi (note the babyish references to gay people as 'gaystapo') He cannot tolerate people who are diffeent, he cannot tolerate anyone who might even hint at his being wrong.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The reason people don't take their claims seriously, is that there is no evidence to back up their claims. When you check their claims, you easily find distortions, manipulated data, and worse, made up.

And when you scratch below the surface, you find these reports are put together by people with a religious agenda, and which appear in religious publications that have nothing to do with science or sociology.

The claim that gay relationships are shortlived and non monogomous is a classic one. Like all these lies, they have been investigated, and proved to be nonsense.

WHAT THE DUTCH STUDY REALLY SAYS ABOUT GAY COUPLES
The report comes from BoxTurtleBulletin by Jim Burroway, 'what the Dutch study really says about Gay couples':

One Sunday evening, I finally got around to reading that day’s newspaper when I saw a letter to the editor from Glen Lavy, Senior Vice President of the conservative Alliance Defense Fund’s Marriage Litigation Center. He objected to an editorial that suggested that same-sex marriage may help to provide stability in the lives of gay men and women. Lavy’s letter read in part:

"According to a Dutch study, same-sex “partnerships” for young men are temporal at best, and men in “steady partnerships” have an average of eight partners per year aside from their “main” partner…"

We‘ve seen that claim before. Whenever discussions about gay marriage come up, these statistics are tossed around with startling consistency:

"What does a homosexual marriage look like? Well, the longest term that we have available to look at is in the Netherlands. Researchers found that the average “marriage” between two men lasts one and a half years. Furthermore, during that time, men have eight other partners per year." — Dr. James Kennedy

"A recent study from the Netherlands, where gay marriage is legal, …found that even among stable homosexual partnerships, men have an average of eight partners per year outside their “monogamous” relationship." — Christianity Today

A recent study on homosexual relationships finds they last 1- 1.5 years on average — even as homosexual groups are pushing nationwide to legalize same-sex ‘marriages.’ The study of young Dutch homosexual men by Dr. Maria Xiridou of the Amsterdam Municipal Health Service, published in May in the journal AIDS…found that men in homosexual relationships on average have eight partners a year outside those relationships. — Washington Times4

Now that you’ve read these claims, what can you assume? Like most people, you’re likely to guess that these statistics can from a broad-based general population survey in the Netherlands studying homosexual behavior and gay relationships. Unfortunately, you’d be wrong. It turns out this “Dutch Study” was performed by a team of researchers led by Dr. Maria Xiradou that appeared in the May 2, 2003 issue of the journal AIDS. And what is the title of that study? “The contribution of steady and casual partnerships in the incidence of HIV infection among homosexual men in Amsterdam.”5

Dr. Xiridou and her colleagues based their research article on the Amsterdam Cohort Studies of HIV infection and AIDS among homosexually active men.6 These studies began in 1984, and had several different protocols in their lifetime:

Oct 1984-1985: Gay men aged 18-65 with at least two sexual partners in the previous six months. In other words, monogamous partners were explicitly excluded.
April 1985-Feb 1988: Study enrollment was continued, except HIV-negative men were now excluded. Only HIV-positive men were added.
Feb 1988 – Dec 1988: The study was re-opened to HIV-negative men.
Various additional enrollments continued from through 1998. Especially notable was a special recruitment campaign for men under the age of thirty beginning in 1995. After 1996, all HIV-negative men above the age of thirty were dropped from the study. Their data was excluded from subsequent analyses.
Nobody outside of Amsterdam was accepted into the study except for AIDS patients who attended clinics in Amsterdam for treatment. This makes the study almost exclusively an urban one.
Dr. Xiridou and colleagues used a smaller subset of this population by further excluding everyone under the age of thirty.

So, what do we have? We have a study population that was heavily weighted with HIV/AIDS patients, excluded monogamous participants, was predominantly urban, and consisted only of those under the age of thirty. While this population was good for the purposes of the study, it was in no way representative of Amsterdam’s gay men, let alone gay men anywhere else.

This turns out to be a very common tactic among anti-gay extremists. Because they’re eager to portray their positions as being backed by scientific research, they often turn to medical studies to support their arguments. And they are especially fond of studies of HIV/AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases (STD’s), which they can count on to provide especially juicy statistics to describe “what homosexuals do”. But of course, all you really learn from these studies is what some homosexuals do — the ones who go to STD clinics because they’ve picked up a disease. By turning to Dr. Xiridou’s study, these activists are following a well-worn path.

And of course, to spotlight the anti-gay lobby's most glaring logical fallacy, I would like to point out that these “statistics” have nothing to do with lesbians at all.

So let’s review the claims against what the study actually says.

Claim #1: The study was of homosexual relationships between married homosexual men.
This study was not about homosexual relationships. The authors are mostly doctors and epidemiologists – they study how diseases are passed along from one person to the next. Their research article presented a mathematical model that was intended to predict how HIV and AIDS would spread among gay men. If a couple is monogamous, then by definition they would not be contributing to the spread of HIV and AIDS. Monogamous couples were simply irrelevant to the study, which is why they were explicitly excluded.

Claim #2: Homosexual relationships last for an average of only one and a half years, making same-sex marriages short-lived.
The first problem we have here is that everyone over the age of thirty was excluded from the study. By keeping the age of the sample population artificially low, this artificially limits the length of time any of them could have been in a “steady relationship”. You’re certainly not going to find any twenty-nine-year-olds in thirty-year relationships — or even fifteen-year ones.

But that’s not the only problem. The study didn’t ask if any of the participants were married because they couldn’t marry. Marriage equality didn’t arrive in the Netherlands until April 2001, two years after the study ended. Instead the participants were simply asked if they had a “steady relationship” with no further guidance on what that means. People dating for a few weeks could consider themselves in a “steady relationship” – which would be a far cry from full-fledged marriage.

This is an important pont. If legally recognized marriage had been an option for these couples (and if the researchers had been interested in studying only married gay men), they would have had a consistent standard for excluding those couples who were merely dating, or even those who were living together but who didn’t want to get married. That would have been the only valid way to compared married gay couples to married straight ones. You would have weeded out those who don’t want to marry, or who weren’t at that stage in their relationships where they felt ready to be married. After all, not all straight couples in “serous relationships” are married. By including couples in short-term relationships as well as those who don’t want to be married, the average length of relationships is significantly lowered.

And of course, monogamous couples were excluded from the study altogether. I don’t think it is too much of a stretch to assume that non-monogamous relationships are less likely to be as stable as monogamous ones. By excluding monogamous couples, the average is likely reduced even more.

To make a valid comparison to straight couples, we would need to compare this group of gay men to married and unmarried urban straight couples – all under thirty and all non-monogamous. This didn’t happen.

Claim #3: Men in homosexual relationships on average have eight partners a year outside those relationships.
The authors quoted that average in their study, but they never tried to claim that it was true for gay men as a whole. Because the study excluded monogamous couples, the stated average would naturally be excessively high. What’s more, we don’t know how much this average was skewed because we don’t know how many monogamous couples were excluded.

The only thing we can conclude from this study is that when people decide to be non-monogamous, they decide to be really non-monogamous.

As we have seen, the “Dutch study” claims made by anti-gay activists are seriously distorted. Like most of their claims about gay men’s sexual behavior, anti-gay activists rely on studies that are not representative of the general population. What’s worse, they especially rely on studies culled from STD clinics for most of their claims. And by not telling you the nature of these studies or their participants, they are engaging in a deliberately deceptive practice. And they get by with it because they assume you won’t read these studies yourself, which is a safe assumption for most readers. After all, who has the time to go to a medical library to look up these studies in arcane professional journals?

These activists know that STD studies are a reliable source of statistics describing the behavior of irresponsible gay men and women. But these studies are far from representative of the gay population as a whole. If you don’t believe that, then perhaps you should check out what straight STD patients are doing."

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- Well, here you are, returning time after time to post nonsense, paying lots of attention, arguing black is white, quoting propaganda, writing gibberish.

And asking 'what's the point' about clarifying the methodology, or which peer-reviewed journal it appeared in, and quoting the original sources, shows you are just clueless.

If you don't compare like with like, it's junk information. It's a basic rule of sampling, which you are totally unaware of.
Either quote from a real scientific, peer reviewed journal, or don't waste your breath.

"The organisation was founded on certain values and all they asked for was to be allowed to operate based on those values. The Court granted the right to do so."
- The values of excluding people for who they are, for no reason whatsoever. That's bigotry. It will change though.

"Matt. 5:11. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Nothing here about ideas being stupid."
- Believing in fairy stories based on no evidence is stupid, period.

- Bash Back: 6 people is not a mass movement. For that matter, daubing insults on churches is hardly Kristallnacht. Get over it and stop wallowing in self pity.

"Virtually every response from the gaystapo is that everyone is wrong if you don’t agree with us."
- You are wrong and won't admit it when the facts are right in your face. You have zero evidence to back anything up. And despite that you are determined to drive bigoted opinions of gay people into law. Denying rights and dignity to others who mean no harm is bigotry.

"Don’t force on us the idea that you are no different to married man and women because you are very different in a lot of ways."
- No one is forcing you to believe anything. No one is forcing your church to make any concession to gay people. You are the one forcing your prejudices into law, and interfering in the lives of others, for no reason other than you don't like the fact they are being acknowledged. How many gay people do you actually know to make any statement on the matter?

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I know. Everyone is always wrong if they disagree with the gaystapo. Deal with it.

[expect ridicule, and even expressions of hatred, because their ideas would appear to be stupid
Where does it say that in the bible?
- Matt 5:11; 10:22. He who hold on to the nuttiest beliefs, like believing the earth is 6,000 years old is saved of course.]

Matt. 5:11. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Nothing here about ideas being stupid.

Matt. 10:22. All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. Nothing here about ideas being stupid.

[Because LGBT people have no intention to interfere with your way of life or your church,]

“EAST LANSING, MI, May 14, 2009 Alliance Defense Fund attorneys filed suit in federal court Wednesday against a radical anarchist group that openly advocates the use of riots and crime to further its views in favour of homosexual behaviour. ADF attorneys filed the suit on behalf of Delta Township's Mount Hope Church against the group "Bash Back!," which invaded the church's building during a worship service on Nov. 9 of last year.”

If that is non interference, I hate to think what interference is!!!

[Whereas, hysterical religious nuts like you want to enshrine their obnoxious beliefs into law, ram it down everyone's throats and deny other people the rights they are due,]

Judging by this report and many others you are the ones ramming things down people’s throats and denying other people’s rights. But then we shouldn’t be surprised with so many gaystapo nuts around.

[That's exactly what parties of God to, whether it's Baghdad, Bali, Belfast or the Deep South really, isn't it?]

They must have learnt that from you.

[Tolerance has to be reciprocated.]

We are very tolerant of the gaystapo who abuse and attack others because we won’t bow down and worship the gospel according to the gaystapo. In your bitterness and hate, you can’t see the obvious.

[So, the members of the public who stand for decency and fairness did challenge them, then.]

Not according to the report if you care to read it, which you probably don’t want to because it puts the attack squarely in your court.

[Funny how you are happy to go with a court decision when it suits you,]

It didn’t suit me as I have nothing to do with the Scouts. I was just quoting a case of lesbians wanting to force the Scouts to give up the basis for their existence.

[So long as they recieve no preferential treatment by the state then,]

They didn’t.

[It's for the Scouts to give coherent reason for institutionalising bigotry,]

They don’t have to because they don’t. The organisation was founded on certain values and all they asked for was to be allowed to operate based on those values. The Court granted the right to do so.

[unless it wants an image as an organisation mainly for religious nuts.]

The Scouts are not a religious organisation but I guess to assuage your anger you have to strike out at someone.

[It's necessary, as you show contempt for people who mean you no harm whatsoever, or anyone else.]

“The Nov. 4 passage of constitutional amendments banning gay marriage in California, Arizona and Florida has evoked a sometimes-violent response from radical gay activists who have vandalized churches, mobbed intercessors and disrupted a worship service in Michigan.”

Doesn’t sound like these gaystapo meant no harm.

[You make unfounded claims, if not bare faced lies, that gay people are more likely to be child molesters - debunked nonsense;]

I have never mentioned the term child molesters. That is an invention of yours because you haven’t got anything intelligent to say.

[most appallingly, you claim that gay people are incapable of settling down - also rubbish,]

Of course it always is if it doesn’t agree with the gaystapo gospel.

[because you haven't explained anything about the methodology, or which peer-reviewed journal it appeared in. You won't quote any original sources.]

What’s the point? Everyone is wrong if they don’t agree with the gaystapo gospel. I posted elsewhere a comment from the APA and the response was “Where is your evidence” when it was painfully obvious it was staring at them in the face.

[To come up with a comparative study of relationships,]

So we have to study heterosexual relationships to discover how long homosexual relationships last. About as logical as taking a bus to travel overseas.

[Then you have a fair comparison.]

A comparison was not the purpose of the research as in “how many miles does the average Toyota Camry travel each year” You are saying that we can’t know that unless we compare the Toyota with a Ford.

[Don't think you are doing anything new by posting the same lies on here.]

No I am not as you post enough lies to keep us going for a long time.

[We've seen them before, they have been debunked many times. They are only produced by religious organisations to keep their flock in check, and lapped up by people who know nothing about either science or sampling methodology.]

That would be true if it was true. However, virtually ever response from the gaystapo is that everyone is wrong if you don’t agree with us. With such a cracked record, you can I am sure imagine that we pay very little notice of what you say because most of the time all you are doing is massaging your egos.

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