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US: Minnesota hunting lodge pays for gay couple’s wedding after turning them away

  • Ali Cat

    At least they made amends, I know they were pushed into it but some companies have dug their heels in and won’t change no matter what. In business you can’t pick and choose your customers and they’ve made a sound business decision in doing a u-turn.

  • Waynec

    I agree with the final commentator. The government imposing their views on sexuality and marriage on people. What next? Government imposing their views on whether citizens can kill people, whether we can enter a neighbour’s house and take things they own or even what we should pay the government from our salaries for services like health, police and benefits. Governments always intervening in this way!

    • Ali Cat

      If people don’t have the decency to treat others with respect then laws are in place to protect everyone’s rights. People shouldn’t be made to feel like second-class citizens and turned away by businesses because of their sexuality, race, religion, because they have a mullet, smelly feet, or any other reason. I run a business, probably some of my customers hold views I utterly disagree with, it’s not my place to turn away customers because they are different to me.

      • Waynec

        See above, It’s called sarcasm. Of course people shouldn’t be allowed to be bigotted. Duh!

        • Silly Old Bastard

          You have to be careful with sarcasm. If you’re no good at it, people see you as a fool.

          • Wayne

            Thankfully, I have a certificate in sarcasm; so I must be good.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            I like your sarcasm

        • Ali Cat

          Sorry, I did in fact miss the sarcasm and took you literally.

    • Mario

      I agree with what your saying in essence, in that nobody should be forced to do anything the do not wish to do. However, what happens is that minorities in society can be so easily turned against in these scenarios.

      I sure many remember the time in Ireland where shops would carry ‘no Irish’ and ‘no black. people signs. Nobody wants to live in that kind of society.

      I think it should come down to the fact that, if you cannot do something in a job which is against your beliefs, then don’t do the job. For example many people choose not to be police because they do not believe in state control.

      If you don’t like it, then don’t do the job

      • Waynec

        I was using sarcasm Mario. Government is there to make decisions on behalf of the people; that is why they are elected. The role of government is to aggregate the views of the people, assess them but then to lead. People often have to be forced into doing things they don’t want to.

        • Mario

          Well I am against the use of force under any circumstance.

          • Waynec

            That’s sweet but ever so naive. The world had to force the South African government to release Madiba and end apartheid in the 1990s. Without that concerted pressure, we would still have pass laws and state endorsed segregation.

          • Mario

            Well, that’s more applying pressure than using physical force.

  • Mario

    If you don’t like catering to parts of society in a particular job, then don’t do the job. Simples!

  • Peeps99

    ‘This is a shameful example of government forcing citizens to accept the government’s view of sexuality and marriage’. Funny, but somehow I suspect when it it/was the government forcing citizens to accept the government’s view of marriage as only between one man and one woman that a certain Mr Helmberger would have raised no objection then. Only when it suits eh

  • Silly Old Bastard

    This is no victory. The owners of a hunting lodge now join the increasing number of people with good reason to fear and loath homosexuals.

    • Cal

      Just like you.

      • Silly Old Bastard

        Just like people react to gypsies as it happens. Fear and loathing.The very bottom of the sh*t heap.

        • grannieannie2

          Just to make it easier on you, what group or person DON’T you hate?

          • Silly Old Bastard

            “Fish and chips twice please”
            So solly gentlemen, but we Chinese restaurant. We no do fish chips
            “I’m gay and so is my partner”
            You want salt vinegar on that?

          • Steven Gregory

            You’re at a Chinese restaurant seeking fish and chips? You’re a Silly Old MORON. Was the “vinegar” warm?

          • Silly Old Bastard

            Pity you don’t do humour.

    • http://www.bloketoys.co.uk/ BlokeToys.co.uk

      You give new weight to the term “self-loathing”.

      These homophobes are already homophobes, and thankfully they are a dying breed. They are already losing across the USA, their statements and abuse are being rejected by ever increasing numbers, the Republican party is quickly learning that it cannot survive on a religious platform.

      This is not making anyone into a homophobe, but it is making the most violent and despicable bigots more obvious to spot.

      • Silly Old Bastard

        You seem to be precariously close to assuming that anyone who isn’t full on to your struggle is a bigot or self loather.

        • MJ

          “Self-loathing” is thrown around way too much as an insult. Like “troll.”

        • grannieannie2

          No, no, Silly, we don’t need to assume that you are the epitome of a bigot and most likely a self loather. You are the picture of bigotry.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            Granny, you’re not dry. Are you?

          • grannieannie2

            Nope, not at all. I’m a withered old hag, but seldom dry.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            Pissy old dears are great fun.

    • grannieannie2

      You know, Silly Old Bastard, you are probably a good deal younger than I am, but being such a homophobe makes you a Silly Old Bastard and there’s nothing you can do to change it. So just sit in your Silly Old Bastard Rocking Chair and pray that the world will end soon because you have no place to hide.

      • Silly Old Bastard

        What the hell happened then?

    • Peeps99

      That’s an interesting points SOB, do people start off without fear and loathing, and then develop it when the law changes to dictate that it should be illegal to discriminate? I don’t believe so, people who hate have always hated, and are only objecting to their world view being challenged. Granted they may be looking for reasons to hate, may be looking for a justification for their prejudices, but I don’t believe they started off as nice liberal folk to begin with – they’ve always hated. cf support for equal marriage, not so long ago the majority were against even civil partnerships – they’ve been introduced, the sky didn’t fall in, and now the majority are in favour. Public opinion has caught up.

      • Silly Old Bastard

        I don’t know where it comes from, but I do detect it. I just don’t like pushing people where they don’t want to go. Ideally, businesses would advertise they are gay marriage supportive, and win the trade that way. Rather like a competitor of Henry Ford able to offer colours other than black.

        • Waynec

          Child labour laws, rape within marriage laws, racial segregation laws, death penalty, droit de seigneur. All laws which changed the views of the people. Sometimes the vox populi isn’t vox veritas.

        • JonParker

          And those who aren’t can put signs in their windows, “No Gays, No Blacks, No Jews”?

          • Silly Old Bastard

            Ever heard of something called Public Decency. What passes for being acceptable and what isn’t. There’s no stick behind it.

          • JonParker

            Public Decency counts for squat in a fair few cases, I grew up with plenty of people who would act on their racism a lot more if there wasn’t a stick stopping them from doing so

          • Steven Gregory

            JonParker, you’re absolutely correct. There wouldn’t be laws if they weren’t required.

            Look at the most recent before gays and lesbians: the special needs community. My friend Paul won an out-of-court settlement against the State of Colorado (rumored $2-3 million). He has his Masters in Communications and was hired to implement systems for deaf, blind, and persons with speech or mobility issues. Those who were supposed to implement the communications network for people with extra needs dragged their feet, and Paul was put to work as a janitor.

            Then they tried to bust his pay saying he wasn’t doing the job required for that salary. A couple of legislators who met Paul and knew the situation referred him to the right attorney who guided the state’s attorney to recommend an out-of-court settlement and immediate establishment of the department.

          • Steven Gregory

            I call bullsh!t.
            There are large sticks behind many public decency measures, they’re called LAWS.

    • Rehan

      Alternatively, the owners of the hunting lodge have now had a useful lesson about the limits to which they can impose their own values and prejudices on their commercial business. And maybe they appreciate the lesson, and – who knows? – maybe they’ll even reconsider their prejudices.

      • Steven Gregory

        Chances are their biases are easy to uphold because they haven’t met many gays or lesbians. That could change quickly.

        • Rehan

          I bet they have in fact, without realising, but I know what you mean – and yes, let’s hope so.

    • That There Other David

      As I already posted somewhere on this thread I can fully believe that up until this point they’d never even thought about it properly, and just gave a knee-jerk response rather than a considered one. I would guess that the lawyer and probably a lot of their customers/members reminded them of the difference between them and their business too.

    • Steven Gregory

      Actually, it’s good to fear laws against bias in business practices. If enough people lose in court, others will be less likely to attempt the same.

      As for loathing, people with such views usually have little or no contact with those they are against. This could help expand their world. Familiarity is one of the main enemies of bigotry.

  • http://www.bloketoys.co.uk/ BlokeToys.co.uk

    The damage for this business has already been done. They had this policy through bigotry and religious ignorance, that’s the issue here. It makes no difference whether they paid for the wedding, they were forced to meet legal requirements and if they weren’t they would still be bigoted and hateful homophobes.

    That’s enough of a reason to encourage all decent people, gay or straight, to tell them where to shove their services.

    • Silly Old Bastard

      So endeth the lesson.

    • MJ

      IF this story is true. (Remember the Atlanta tale).

      • Steven Gregory

        Are you still sucking that raw thing? Your mouth must be full of leeched meat by now.

  • Ed Woody

    Great lovely wonderful heartwarming etc.

    But for god’s sake, nobody should be getting married at 18!

    • JonParker

      Why not? Some of the oldest and most lasting marriages I know started when they were young. 18 or 80, who cares? They’re just lucky they found their respective partners at such an age

    • Steven Gregory

      I tend to agree with you: perhaps instead of a Marriage License, people under 30 should receive a Learner’s Permit. Marriage licenses should come with renewal dates, so people can reevaluate and decide if they want to renew or walk away from it.

      “Til death” was penned when life expectancy was 50 years.

  • jordan

    The government is not forcing ANYONE to accept anything. They are not telling you to believe in gay marriage. They are telling you that you will not be allowed to use your belief as a reason to be a bigot. You do not have to agree, you do not have to condone the activity. But you DO have to treat all people with the dignity and respect as dictated by law. You CANNOT discriminate. You do not agree with gay marriage? Fine! Your right to believe that. So dont marry a homosexual. But you will no longer be allowed to use that as a viable excuse for your bigoted actions. Believe what you wish. But no discrimination. And the private lodge is not a RELIGIOUS institution. It was a private one, who got into very PUBLIC business.

  • Steven Gregory

    It seems that any organization with a “spokesperson” and the word “Family” is code for “right wing we hate queers.”

    Glad this couple has an amiable settlement, it seems the lodge and their attorney are smarter than average for not pushing this into ugly territory. I’m also glad this couple decided on another venue: why should they bear the insult.

  • Jon (Malaysia)

    I find it interesting that anyone would want to get married at a hunting lodge… too many guns about. But then, that’s America all over isn’t it? Schools, churches, petrol stations, convenience stores, county halls etc. etc.

    • Steven Gregory

      It’s Minnesota: I believe the nuns visiting neonatal wards give out pink or blue commemorative shotgun shells instead of baby quilts.

  • That There Other David

    It’s almost like the initial reaction was knee-jerk from the person running the place, and then the membership let them know their feelings on the matter. I can believe that up until this point they never even had the conversation as a group about holding weddings for all. In the meantime though the couple had obviously made other arrangements, which is a bit of a shame. It would have been nice for the person who gave the initial NO!! to see that same-sex weddings are just like opposite-sex ones.

    • JonParker

      If it was your wedding, wouldn’t you prefer to hold it where you were welcome?

      • That There Other David

        I get the feeling that after the initial couple of awkward meetings I would be at that this lodge. I genuinely think they just parroted some ingrained reaction, then stopped to think about it, talked it over with others, and decided they were in the wrong.

        • JonParker

          Which is all well and good for the lodge and I’m inclined to agree with you without any further information, but it is their wedding day, having already been declined on homophobic grounds, if it was me, I wouldn’t want the extra hassle of worrying about such homophobia on their big day

          • Steven Gregory

            Particularly at a hunting lodge where guns are everywhere and a mishap could occur.

        • Steven Gregory

          There’s always the possibility their attorney pointed out to them that they were headed for a defeat in court, and to avoid such a scenario they should pay “go away” money and change their policy.

    • Steven Gregory

      Actually, Americans are finding out that same-sex weddings are not exactly the same: they appear to be more durable. Heterosexuals in the US divorce at the rate of 52% with most marriages dissolving in under 24 months. States where equal marriage is legal have seen divorce rates plummet due to gays and lesbians divorcing at a rate of 8% nationwide.

      • That There Other David

        Ha ha. That I was unaware of. Thanks for that piece of info :)

        • Steven Gregory

          One of the nighttime talk show hosts joked, “Maybe heterosexual couples should have a waiting period before they can get married, say 57 years?” A lesbian couple married after 57 years together.

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