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Doctor Who features first lesbian kiss

  • Robsnw3

    So what a kiss oh how terrible. Get over it you pratts!!

  • http://www.sunshine-coast-rainbownetwork.com Fi Anderson

    What rubbish!! So all these critics are fine with heterosexual kissing but not lgbtiq relationships?? Im sorry, but since when did love become ‘porn’?? Love is love – whether it be heterosexual or homosexual – and children understand this. A kiss is not porn and to all those idiots condemning the program – you should be ashamed of your homophobia and bigotry.

    • anon

      The outrage is good for them. Nobody can stay outraged indefinitely, it would be exhausting.

      I say replace the swimming hippos in the BBC 1 ident with a lesbian kiss.
      The bigots will rage at the TV until they’re well and truly knackered, then that will probably be the last we hear from them.

      • Rocker Kid

        Even Fred Phelps admitted he was wrong, by the end.

      • Strepsi

        Ohhh, Christians can feel outraged and persecuted indefinitely — martyrdom is a feature, not a bug.

    • Linn Kristin

      It is so sad that people can’t accept others for who they are. It’s my pet peeve, I can’t stand when someone is being racist or judging someone purely based on how they look or who they are. As long as no harm is done to them or they haven’t done anything wrong, I don’t understand how people can be like this.

  • feromoon

    love Madame vastra and Jenny. I guess it’s the name…

    Saw it here http://veryfero.blogspot.nl/2014/08/dr-who-season-8.html

  • Ben

    Seriously? They are complaining about this? Technically it wasn’t even a kiss, they were sharing oxygen to survive.
    Though even if it was a kiss, why would it matter?, there have been heterosexual kisses in the series before, So why not this?
    I simply say, if you don’t like it don’t watch it.

    • Lynda Hollins

      yeah just because it was not a RIVER and DOCTOR kiss everyone loved that it was all a buzz when it happened.

      • Anon

        I actually know a lot of people who hated when the Doctor and River kissed. They either wanted Rose back (BLECH!) or wanted the Doctor with Jack.

        • anon

          Doctor and Jack is no good. It has the wrong power dynamic.
          The Doctor needs a twink companion, or even better the Doctor needs to snag another free regeneration and become a women.

          As time passes, the chances of one of these happening approaches 100%

          • Philip Marks

            Adric.

          • MarkB

            LOL you mean of course an Adric like character. As of course Adric or the actor: Matthew Waterhouse: is now 52 :D

          • Philip Marks

            Adric the character of course; the suggestion was he needed a twink for a companion, well he’s had one. Who knows what went on, that was a very roomy Tardis with a lot of private corners…

          • Craig Young

            Either that, or he needs a second out gay male companion. Preferably one quite different in some ways from Jack, in ways that could be quite fun if the two of them crossed paths…

          • David Eagerton

            pretty sure it’s been made known it’s not a free regeneration but a whole new regeneration cycle

    • Philip Marks

      Personally I feel it is time we simply moved to an all gay porn program in the schools and on TV. After all watching gay porn made me gay, so we could simply convert all the str8’s to gay and end all this arguing.

      Also I think we should allow horses to vote, instead of just the posteriors.

    • David Boccabella

      Besides.. It was the Kiss of Life..
      Next time we see a movie where one of the female characters has drowned and the only other chance of being saved is to get the ‘Kiss of Life’ form another female co-star I can imagine..
      “But your could have saved her..”
      “I know – but I was terrified that the bigots would attack us for touching lips.. So I let her die”

    • Megan

      Not only that…but they are okay with men and women kissing on there but not fem-fem??? If thyey are concerned about kids than they should complain about every kiss….in fact why don’t they just ban kissing all together? Make it illigal so the world is “appropriate for children”

    • Caity CV

      Agreed

  • Logan Barnard

    There will always be lesbian lizards in leather flirting with me.

    • Lizzie Lipz

      Can you blame them, you handsome devil. :)

    • anon

      Draw me like one of your French girls, Vastra.

  • Shiloh

    Seriously, are you some sexually frustrated 15 year old virgin? Because if you think that two women kissing is sexual enough to be condemned on daytime TV then you must have a filthy mind. Are you saying you can’t look at a lesbian couple without seeing them as a sex item? I think that makes YOU the pervert.

  • jaz

    I can genuinely say I didn’t actually clock the lesbian aspect of it until afterwards. Like pretty well every kiss on Doctor Who it was not a romantic gesture.
    Liked the show by the way, although very hard not see Malcolm Tucker and expect him to start a torrent of fantastic, creative swearing.

    • SilverFireFox77

      Lol. I was expecting a string of fantastical swearing too! My favourite being “f***ity bye”. Honestly though, don’t get why everyone is flipping over life-saving breaths. My vote is that we tie all the haters up together in a room and make them watch all 4 series of Torchwood.

  • Silly Old Bastard

    Years ago, a child kissed a turtle and came down with salmonella poisoning. The stuff loves to live on reptilian skin, doncha know,

    • Silly Old Bastard

      Consequently, I’d sooner kiss a cat’s hole than a lizard.

      • anon

        Sounds like an instant youtube hit to me.

        • Silly Old Bastard

          Video camera at the ready here, and several cats each with one paw in the air.

  • losttimelord14

    sorry but i enjoyed it so i say kill the critcs

  • Fred

    The critics say it’s “blatant gay agenda”.
    So that would mean that all the boy-girl kisses are “blatant straight agenda”.

    • Jones

      Yes the “gay agenda” will convert all the boy and girls watching to be gay. If that is the case, why because of all the straight kisses I saw as a child am I not straight?

      • Toby Kirkby

        I know what you mean, I watched Queer as Folk and Tipping the Velvet, and adore movies like Pracilla, but I seem to be stuck as a hetro….. weird huh

        • Strepsi

          We’re sorry about that. Sometimes the conversion process takes a little longer. Have you tried an additional treatment of a season of “Vicious” or two Jimmy Sommerville albums before bed time?

      • Philip Marks

        But Fred I am gay because of all the gay porn I watched. I think we should make gay porn mandatory in schools, wipe out this heterosexual thing entirely so we can all get along.

        And then we let the entire horse vote not just the posteriors.

    • anon

      Don’t try to make literal sense of it.
      “Agenda” is just projecting from religious people, who are the only ones with an agenda here.

      • Anon

        Don’t be too sure. There are atheists who believe gay people are “evolutionary inferior” to straight people and think all gay people should be killed “for the good of humanity.” It’s not always “religious” people who look down on homosexuality.

        • anon

          Homophobia comes from many places. The North Korean state spreads homophobia by claiming it’s a product of “Western decadence”.

          However, the vast majority of homophobia that we deal with in the west is firmly rooted in christianity. All the opposition to equal marriage; that was conservative christians all the way.
          You’d be hard pressed to find me a single atheist who claims religious believers are “evolutionary inferior”, because we’re all born atheist. Nobody is genetically religious, or for that matter a bigot. Religious indoctrination is a societal ill.

          The bible, being the word of man, is completely arbitrary.
          Leviticus 18:22 could just as easily have said:
          “Have sex with whoever you like. It’s all good”.
          But it didn’t because repression, especially that of natural drives, and even more especially of sexuality, is a defining trait of religion.

          tl;dr It’s 95% christianity

        • Strepsi

          I’ve never heard that in my life.

  • Dr Boo Hoo

    ‘Our’ licence fee? Do gays not pay ‘our’ licence fee too? My god, the usual inane, hysterical over the top response in trying to liken regular human relations, just this time between two women, to porn channel antics. Do these NIMBYs not realise some of ‘our children’ are going to be gay or bi too, and quite possibly glad of the representation?

    • Toby Kirkby

      Gays do indeed pay the licence fee, but the wallets they have look way better than straight guys wallets

      • anon

        What’s the exchange rate for pink pounds?

        • Toby Kirkby

          Depends on how fabulous the wallet is

  • Secularist FreeThought

    “Although the episode has received a generally positive reaction from fans, some have attacked the “unnecessary” kiss and they show’s “blatant gay agenda”.
    Where were these complainers when David Tennant and Billie Piper shared a kiss on the beach? Oh! It wasn’t between same-sex couple? Well silly me.
    There’s nothing inappropriate about a woman sharing a brief intimate moment with her wife. No less so than a husband with his. In fact, this is good for kids, this way they’ll be much better informed and open minded than the bigoted fools complaining about a brief kiss on TV.

  • Buffalo Gough

    We pay the license fee as well and don’t bleat on about heterosexual kisses, for god sake it’s 2014 not the 1980’s.

    • Toby Kirkby

      Not even the first Lesbian kiss on British prime time TV, the old soap opera Brookside did it first with the lovely Anna Friel

  • Megan E Powers Cma

    So wait…. Jenny and Vastra can carry on for years, calling each other wife and whatnot, but they can’t kiss? And TECHNICALLY, it wasn’t even a kiss it was a rescue breath! So, these people complaining, would they complain if someone of the same sex had to do mouth-to-mouth resuscitation on them? Would they rather die first? FFS…. there’s a lot to get mad about, but this isn’t one of those things….

    • Craig Young

      Actually, I think that according to DW series canon, the two of them went uptime at some point and tied the knot.

  • Deathtocritics

    Exactly what rubbish critics should look at the new world and not live in the Stone Age also why would they talk about this when torchwood has demonstrated this before

  • Me

    Is this actually a real issue??? I mean really? Apart from it being 2014 and the fact that homosexual people pay the licence fee as well hetrosexual people. The fact they were sharing oxygen to survive and weren’t even kissing. I’m surprised people aren’t up in arms about it being a inter-specie relationship. She’s a lizard alien woman married to a human. Surely THAT would cause more of an issue to the small minded homophobic bigots?! Honestly, it was an episode of Doctor Who and it was a good one. Go and complain about something else. If you dont like it DON’T WATCH IT.

    • Nick Rowley

      Well, technically, Vastra isn’t an alien since her species were the original sentient specie on earth. :)

      Also, if this kiss upset people, they obviously didn’t pay attention during previous Jenny and Vastra appearances….

      • Me

        ok technically lol but for the idiots moaning about this all the technicality won’t matter. There’s nothing wrong with any of it. They’re just busying themselves over nothing

  • sean36

    As the programme was show at a later time than usual I don’t see what the fuss is about. There have been lesbian kisses in all of the soaps and they air mostly before the time the programme was broadcast last night.

  • Denis

    In an episode that features the harvesting of human organs to create, in part, a skin covered hot air balloon, on a show about space/time travel people complain about children not understanding kissing. Got it.

    • Noelani Lois

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  • Linlin M.

    Where was the uproar when Ten kissed Martha as a genetic transfer? Or when Nine kissed Rose to save her from the Time Vortex? Or any of the times River kissed Eleven? The answer is there weren’t any uproars, because nobody considers straight kisses “pornographic,” only gay ones. You want to talk about double standards and heterosexual privilege…

    • Silly Old Bastard

      No point beating yourself up over it. It’s just the way it is. Adapt, go along with it with a wry smile and survive say I.

    • Alan

      Was there an uproar when Captain Jack and The Doctor kissed?

      • rickytiki

        Really, what episode was that?

        • Jeli

          It was on Platform 5 w/ Eccleston as the doctor just before the Daleks came to kill everyone, Bad Wolf or The Parting of Ways (2005). Jack gives kisses Rose, then The Doctor.

          • evillordzog

            Yes, and while we get to see every lip smacking moment whenever the Doctor and a female companion kiss, the 9/Jack kiss is shot from behind the Doctor so you never see the kiss take place.

          • rickytiki

            Thanks, I don’t get to watch it as much as I want to.

        • Shannon Sistrunk

          They’ve kissed several times. Look on YouTube!

          • rickytiki

            Will do.

  • RockyJohan

    What kind of “Critics” is this. If you wrote anything like this in a swedish magazine you would be fired directly.

  • Lynda Hollins

    OMG it was NOT A KISS it was an exchange of AIR. “I can store pockets of oxygen share some of mine. NOT a lesbian KISS. hell she is a lizard they are ASEXUAL why do people have to find fault in every bloody thing they see. actually listen to the dialogue do not just watch the actions.

  • Payton Blake

    So, every time a man and woman kiss on screen, is that a “straight agenda?”

  • Crescent Ruby

    If there were really only 3 idiots for 7 Million people, this earth would have a chance…

  • Iron fn’ Maiden

    Wow. Just wow. One kiss and suddenly it’s porn. These guys must be anti-LBGT; I didn’t see them complaining about the straight kisses. Just get the Hell out and don’t watch the show if you don’t like it.

  • Linn Kristin

    This is clearly critisized by homophobics! I don’t understand how anyone can be this critic towards this. This wasn’t porn at all! nor is it taking that direction, this was love and the kiss wasn’t really a kiss. This isn’t the only “gay” kiss in the show, just because it was two females instead of males doesn’t make a difference, everyone rememebers Jack right? why should they change the show for children? They understand the content of the kiss and that it is LOVE and necessary for breathing in this content and why should we raise children and let them think “lesbians” or gays in general should be looked down on? this is a normal thing in society today and it’s only from people that should be ashamed for looking down at a person for who they are. I bet if it was a straight kiss/a man and a female, it wouldn’t have been an issue, so sad that people are teaching their kids to hate other people for who they are.

  • Steve Clement

    It was no more than a kiss of life.

  • Andy Schmandy

    The “reviewer” quoted in this article is actually a reader who had left a comment about seven hours ago under the review on the Telegraph website.
    See it here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/tv-and-radio-reviews/11052720/Doctor-Who-Deep-Breath-review-Capaldi-crackles-with-fierce-intelligence.html
    I can’t find any review anywhere criticising the kiss, it appears to all be idiots in comments sections.

  • Tyler Schommer

    My logic is that Doctor Who has never tried to be a child oriented show. In addition, if some twats on the World Wide Web feel the need to be bigoting idiots, that doesn’t mean they have to share their homophobia with the rest of us. By all means, keep your opinions, feel free, but if you complain about this, I am quite curious to see how you managed to stay through the show this long when in the first current generation season of Doctor Who there was an omnisexual companion that hit on everybody, in the 10ths reign Shakespeare was bisexual, and in 11ths reign there was this homosexual relationship. Sure, seeing it is fine, but kissing is isn’t? Right.

    Sincerely, a man who is still angry that he didn’t have the correct channel to watch Doctor Who last night.

  • TheGreatRandingo

    This is so stupid.. When I watched it I didn’t even think about “Oh it’s a lesbian sex scene.” I though of it as an expression of her love for her by trying to save her. And ?Dr. Who marketed towards children? That’s how you know the comment came from some uptight old dude who never has watched the new series. Oh and when Karen leaves bring back Amy(did you catch the dig about how he missed Amy) or the hot wildling chic from game of thrones.

    • chloe

      I couldnt work out if it was a dig about missing Amy, or if he was referring to the fact Amy had quite long legs, whilst Clara was trying to get the screwdriver with her foot

  • Alex

    So suddenly it is a crime to show kids that people are different than you are and that gay people do in fact exist….

  • Tom_Webster

    It would be helpful to have some indication of who these ‘critics’ are. I have seen a few foolish remarks among the comments in the Torygraph. I saw it at the cinema in Edinburgh with an audience that was pretty mixed in terms of age and background, simply united in wanting to see it. The supposedly controversial kiss didn’t prompt any notice. Sadly there remain homophobes but there is a difference between sad people with their own agenda in the anonymity of comments and reviewers with the greater credibility of publishing with their name attached.

    • SilverFireFox77

      The only response the ‘kiss’ triggered in my living room in Liverpool was someone wolf-whistling and me shouting ‘finally!’ lol. Wanted to go see it in cinema lol. Did they have any extra bits beforehand, like the 50th anniversary episode?

      • Tom_Webster

        Sadly no – just anticipation.

  • Charon

    Let me think about that…
    There are actually people that dont mind the baloon made from human skin and the clockwork droids vivisecting humans to repair/decorate themselves with their victims organs but go crazy about a kiss?

  • lucy

    Using the fact that Doctor Who is a “children’s program” to try and convince people the kiss was wrong is a load of crap. A.) Doctor Who was never INTENDED to be children’s program, even though the most of the series are considered family friendly quite a few younger kids are scared of it (when I say younger I mean like 7/8 and below.) and B.) Children are much more accepting and understanding of the LGBT community than the older generation are and exposing them to media where homosexual relationships are portrayed as normal should be encouraged. and finally a same-sex couple kissing is NOT PORNOGRAPHY

  • chloe

    So it was fine when Karen Gillan tried to strip Matt Smith off in her bedroom on her wedding night, but not when two married women ‘kiss’ which isn’t even a correct description of what happened? How shallow are these people? I hope both women kissing is added in to the new title sequence.

    • Craig Young

      In the case of the Doctor and A-Pond, that was clearly xenophiliac sexual perversion! Amy got the hots for an alien, the minx, and wanted to fulfil her unnatural lusts with him!! Oops, sorry, accidentally channeled 22nd Century Christian Right ruminations against human/alien relationships and sexuality. Just going off to wash my mouth (it feels so unclean!!!)

  • Sarah Pickett

    Sad that it should even be a problem now, Lets face it there was a huge fuss about the first lesbian kiss on Brookside – surely by now people should be over this! Anyway I think Vastra and Jenny need their own spin off series they’d be brilliant!
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Madame-Vastra-Jenny-and-Strax-need-their-own-series/703761123050273

  • Sir Snowy

    A fuss over lesbians? Wow the world is so shallow… If it’s a kids show why the frick do kids care? It’s not the kids complaining it’s the adults

  • James Cook

    So none of these people kiss their partner in front of their children. Weird

  • Halou

    Who doesn’t love a lizard-lesbian perv trip every now and then?

  • Mary Katrina Wilcox

    So they make a huge ass deal out of a single lesbian couple kiss (which was for the benefit of their survival) but not when John Barrowman deliberately snogs half of the main cast on Torchwood?! (Not knocking him for it, since he’s a brilliant actor and is openly gay. <3)
    I don't really recall any "child like themed shows" ever being on BBCA in a few years or more at that. If parents don't know what their children are watching, they might as well know that BBC is very loose when it comes to homosexuality because they aren't so tight assed as Americans are about it.
    Welcome to British television people!

  • William Glenn Early

    As a straight, Christian fan of the show, this was not offensive. It was a plot element. Folks that do have a problem with this and the characters’ relationships need to just stop watching. As, again a straight Christian, whose imagination has magically NOT been stunted, I love this show, and think that Vastra, Jenny and Strax actually deserve their own spinoff show. The closed-minded folks out there can just tune out.

  • Brian4000 (The Bry Man)

    Wow. People really need to get some perspective. These characters have been a couple for years on the show and you’d think letting them have one kiss (which really wasn’t a kiss so much as Vastra saving Jenny’s life) wouldn’t be an issue for anyone (especially since the Doctor has had ample opportunity to display his sexual preferences through all of time and space).

  • Anon

    Jack was kissing men all the time. He even slipped the 9th Doctor the tongue. I never heard of any controversy over that.

    Here’s the thing, folks, if you have no problem with two men making out and yet have a problem with two women, then you are nothing but a filthy, worthless hypocrite. So shut up, your opinion is not valid.

  • bart007

    I guess these people never watched Torchwood or any episode with Jack in it. Not to mention it was hardly a kiss when she mentions sharing her breath. They rarely show any type of physical affection.

  • Shezza

    What the f*** ?!!!!! There is no porn in a kiss, that’s rubbish. Kissing is natural, we see a couple kissing in like, every movie there is. And there already have been some kisses in Doctor Who, that were less justified than this one.

  • James Grayh

    This article is presenting a storm in a teacup, to be honest.
    After the episode aired I looked to Twitter to enjoy everyone else’s reactions to the episode as well as my own and I saw no mention of the ‘kiss’, either good or bad. I’m sure there were critics of this (what was essentially just a breath of life) but they weren’t and aren’t as prominent or wide-reaching as this story makes out. The polar-negative comments quoted here have been sought out and are not common among the general audience reaction.

    Personally, I’m glad they made a point to include it because the more people (not just the next generation, but also adults) see same-sex couples on TV – gay couples not being safely distant from each other but expressing a closeness just as straight couples do – the more it will become just a casual sight and more accepted.

  • Lord_Gaga

    I’ve been rewatching all of 11 for the last several weeks, and just off the top of my head I’ve seen 11 kiss River (multiple times), (Victorian) Clara, Amy, Rory, Tasha Lem, and even Jenny (who too be fair, slapped him for it). Clara’s characterization of his TARDIS as a “snog box” isn’t that far off. NOW they complain?

  • Kat

    it wasnt even a kiss…She was saving her life by giving her oxygen..This is a very stupid complaint. People will get over it. Doctor who will always be a big hit show..you cant make everyone happy so either they get over it or stop watchign it..I dont think its going to hurt D.W at all

  • Suzy

    Asides from the fact that it was hardly a passionate snog, they make the reason for including it on a t.v. show in the 21st century quite clear. The fact that Jenny and Vastra cannot have a lesbian relationship during the time period when they live. Exposing (and I use the term lightly in this circumstanc) younger generations to the fact that same sex couples have normal hand holding, lip kissing relationships is the way forward to this no longer being a problem in a forward thinking society.

  • http://www.tohic.com Matthew

    This may be the most ridiculous article I’ve ever read, There is no controversy here. There is no ‘Gay Agenda’ here (not that there even is such a thing IMHO). The only Agenda seems to be someone trying to stir up the pot for no reason, #1 it wasn’t a kiss, #2 Girls kiss, get over it, #3, It’s 2014 for cripes sake!

  • N

    This used to be a kids show, it has been aimed at an older audience since the newer seasons and honestly if you can’t handle your kid watching this, which wasn’t even portrayed as a romantic kiss, then maybe you should just stick to letting your kid watch nickelodeon.

  • John Rosario

    I personally find those that have an issue with this appalling I mean we saw Jack kiss how many characters? BOTH male AND female? Sorry but I see nothing wrong with their kiss if you do then maybe you need to take a look inward and see the problem is yourself

  • Sue

    omg, this is ridiculous. One of the main messages of Doctor Who is acceptance for crying out loud. I’d say if it bothers them they should stop watching, but they NEED Doctor Who, even if they don’t like it, because what it is actually pushing is acceptance.
    The only other thing I have to say is, they should definitely not watch Torchwood :)

  • Cuisle

    A lot of good points made here on the subject. But what has been missed is that the ‘kiss’ was announced a couple of weeks ago. Those with issues about such things had the opportunity not to watch. They have no right to complain about seeing something they KNEW was going to happen. They’re obviously LOOKING for a reason to complain.

  • Darachi Guarinot

    In American shows, almost every one of them, even some childrens shows/movies has kissing. It’s all male/female kissing, yes. But reguardless, there is still kissing. People are complaining about this because it has something to do with gays/lesbians and they are changing it into “Well this is becoming porn.” They are ignoring their own shows and the actions to look at two females/two males kissing. They shouldnt care (as an american, myself) WE shouldnt care. Its already known that a lot of states are passing a law to make gay marriage OKAY, so I dont see the problem with this. PARENTS, If you have a problem with seeing or your kids seeing a kiss from a gay/lesbian couple, then don’t watch the show. Grow up, gain some common sense and stop trying to be unnecessarily selfish. An entire show that A LOT of people love does NOT need to be brought down because youre squeamish about a small kiss because of whatever. Get over it.

  • Spunknanigan

    Okay… WHO THINKS THIS IS A SHOW AIMED AT CHILDREN??? What the EFF are you letting your children watch? I mean, teens, maybe, but there are some scenes that scare the pants out of me! Kiss, no kiss, I could care less, but, really… This is NOT, repeat, NOT(!!!) a children’s show. *SMH*

    • http://dark-scar.deviantart.com/ Dark-Scar

      Originally the show was aimed towards children and adults since it was created to be a sci-fi show with historical facts during the 1960s.

  • jabber

    well – strictly speaking… it wasnt a lesbian kiss. A kiss between a human and another species hints at a form of ‘bestiality’ if anything… especially if a sexual relationship is being acknowledged.

    Even the Doctor himself is not human – just because he ‘looks’ like our species doesn’t alter the fact that he is ‘not human’, and therefore an intelligent ‘beast’…… by todays ‘orthodoxy’.

  • Jolly Roger

    When Captain Jack kisses The Doctor 8 years ago nobody bats an eye. When two women do it Now everyone loses their minds. Gender inequality?

    • Alan

      The ironic part of it all is its usually when two gay men kiss is when everyone freaks out and not when women do.

  • bibliophilea

    1. That wasn’t a kiss. That was Madame Vastra giving Jenny much-needed oxygen.
    2. Other characters have been shown/have suggested doing much more heated things than this. Even if it were a kiss, it was a comparatively chaste one between two married characters. If you think that this is porn, then you must also have a problem with Amy kissing Rory, or the Doctor snogging Madame de Pompadour, or Jack kissing the Doctor.
    3. Why have a hissyfit now, when all we saw was Madame Vastra lock lips with Jenny to perform what’s much closer to rescue breathing than to kissing, when we knew for a few seasons that they were a married lesbian couple, and when other characters (i.e. Jack) have been openly not-just-heterosexual?

    I don’t understand why there are so many naysayers for that scene, especially when there were hardly any for past scenes that were far less chaste or more openly homosexual.

  • Paul Louis-Seize

    Just the vocal minority being the bigoted hateful people we know they are. Why bother drawing attention to them ?

  • Anon

    1) I thought it made their relationship more real.
    2) Besides “blatant gay agenda” – come on.
    3) My brother who’s under ten sat down and didn’t even blink when they kissed plus we watch plenty of shows together we characters are homosexual and in relationships and oddly enough he doesn’t enough see the homosexuality.
    4) Are we forgetting about Captain Jack Harkness? The handsome bisexual time agent who kissed Rose and THEN kissed the Doctor?
    5) If the kiss was between two heterosexuals this article wouldn’t even exist.

  • Peter


    first “gay kiss” happened in 2005

    • Cuisle

      This particular image was my MSN messenger avatar for a long time. I ‘lost’ so many Christian friends because of it!!!!!!

  • jamie32

    I’m wondering if any of these critics watched Torchwood when it was on? as far as I’m concerned a lip is a lip…a tongue is a tongue…a kiss is a kiss no matter who is doing the kissing. Lizard lesbians or omnisexual time jumpers who run torchwood. I mean honestly…Who cares? Its never bothered me a bit. I say Leave Moffatt alone…Leave the doctor alone. Leave Madam Vastra alone. Oi!!!

    • Cuisle

      Yes. They watched it, in order to COMPLAIN when they saw things that offended them. it’s all part of the homophobic agenda to be offended everywhere they look.

  • QueenCumberbitch

    CONTEXT PEOPLE. That wasn’t even a kiss, that was Vastra helping Jenny breathe. And they’re freakin’ MARRIED. I’m sure they do much more than just kiss.

    I dunno about you guys, but I absolutely love Vastra and Jenny and Doctor Who’s decision to be so forthright about them and their relationship. It’s a big step towards gender equality, and it’s one of the many reasons why Doctor Who is such a bloody good show.

  • Robert

    So their fine with Jack making out with his guys, and the doctor with his girls, but god forbid a women makes out with a women? These kids see this kind of stuff everywhere nowadays, so you wanna stop and claim its inappropriate then how about just get rid of your TV, after all its not like the games your kids are playing don’t involve you shooting someone in the head every 20 seconds right?? Or half the disney movies your watch nowadays showing all sorts of romance stuff which seems to get progressively worst every year, so yeahhhh why not ban your kids from disney and all those other channels too!

  • Michelle

    I never liked the kissing in Dr Who you never saw Tom Baker snogging. People need to get a grip though and remember what century we are in.

    • GulliverUK

      The show has evolved. It was rather stuffy before. back in the 80s. I’ve been a fan since I was very young. Doctors were eccentric, but mostly prim and proper, but also giving the impression that women could only ever be assistants and were fragile things who were in constant need of male protection. Doctor Who was a bastion of sexism before its re-launch in 2005. Now the sexism is laughed at and parodied for the blatantly ignorant attitude it is – Donna becomes, as the Ood predicted, Doctor Donna and helped destroy the Daleks. Martha Jones is a strong character, and Rose Tyler can kick ass. Leela (with Tom Baker) was a strong female character – perhaps that is when times changed.

      I think you must be wrong —- somebody, somewhere, must have kissed him [Tom Baker] at least once ! :)

      • FinalOwen

        The likes of Sarah Jane, Leela, Romana and Ace would probably object to you calling them fragile. Romana in particular was frequently the Doctor’s equal/better, and even those who learnt from him often saved the day or brought their own perspective to a situation, much as Donna, Martha, Rose, etc. did. And I can’t remember any of them being consistently belittled and made fun of as Clara was in this episode, funnily enough. The series definitely didn’t have problems, but let’s not castigate the old series and whitewash the new.

        As far as the Vastra/Jenny kiss goes, I think the only problem with it was that they felt the need to have it ‘justified’ as sharing breath, rather than having had them kiss before now simply as a regular interaction as a married couple!

        • GulliverUK

          Was thinking more about scenes where Sarah Jane, as an actor, was told to look very frightened when something horrible was happening – a ploy to show the terror on peoples faces, rather than showing the actual thing happening. They use the same expressions they do in Forbidden Planet (1956) when Morbius (Walter Pidgeon) is attacked by the monster created by his own Id. It’s a very false look – I’ve tried to find pictures but I can’t. Anyone who has watched the movie will know that look – with Leslie Nielsen giving the same stupid look. Then you have Tom Baker and others referring to the women as silly girls – although it seemed to be a ploy to get them to do something brave, and it worked. Ace, to me, acted like one of the boys – she’s doing anything they would, and more.

          I admit, I haven’t watched this episode yet (it’s recorded) but I’m sure that, in 2014, this will be done superbly – Doctor Who has progressed quite well. I take the subtle sexism in the original series as subtle digs at sexism – although I wish it wasn’t quite so subtle. When I watch old stuff the mild sexism is part of it, just like Tom Baker banging in to the Tardis and the whole edifice wobbling like a wood box (I regularly walked by the actual Tardis, stored in a storage hanger, when I worked at the BBC).

          You are right, still sad that they had to make a pretext for Vastra/Jenny to touch lips. It is, however, good progress. For me it’s a shame Adric didn’t have a love interest, at least we saw a non-heteronormative love interest with Jack Harkness (in “The Empty Child”).

      • Craig Young

        Yes, but at least Romanas I and II were the same species.

        • GulliverUK

          A bit like Dr Elizabeth Weir, played by Jessica Steen in Stargate SG-1 two-parter “Lost City”, but immediately after played by Torri Higginson in “Lost City, Part 1″ , which was the introduction of Stargate Atlantis (basically my favorite of all Stargate products).

          If we discovered a set of human-like beings but they all had 4 kidneys, but were otherwise just like the rest of us, would we classify them as humans or not? Outward appearance can be different within a species, in the human species we have lots of variation.

  • Chelsea

    Apparently these people missed when John Barrowman (Capt. Jack Harkness) kissed EVERYONE during his run in Doctor Who, including the 9th doctor, very passionately.

    • Lou

      And that was hot too!

  • Anonymous

    How is that porn it was one kiss there were no excessive body parts shown and no private part touching at all. Heck if you didn’t notice Matt smith pretty much kissed everyone male or female and we all loved it and thought it was quirky and adorable. Dr Who is for families yes but so is disney have you noticed how many kissing scenes there are in disney they essentially become one of the main objectives by the end of the films. Just arrgh grow up ppl that was a kiss it was not porn.

  • Jackie Johnson

    So Doctor Who has a “blatant gay agenda” but not a “straight one?” I’m off to do an email of complaint.

  • Lou

    And what a kiss it was ! Im straight and I found it hot. Plus they mention several times they are married but it is people outside their house who have an issue with it. Pretty much some awesome social commentary on how people need to get over it and deal with same sex marriage.

  • LarryBundyJr

    Bullshit, there’s been openly gay kissing in the show for years.

    It’s just a couple of idiot nobodies on twitter who whined, hardly an attack.

  • Kuri

    …Isn’t the entire show about accepting people and where they come from, and to save everyone?

    Oh but not the lesbian lizard human couple. That’s just too weird.

  • CurlyKirsty

    I am a mother, my youngest child has been watching the new Doctor Who series since it came back and is now 15 years old. She explains things to me now such as Hentai etc as she is also into Japanese culture as well as conventions. I don’t think it has anything to do with how we raised her as her generation seem to be less homophobic and more accepting of gay/lesbian/bisexual friends and we even have a friend in a Poly marriage situation. All these people have one thing in common; they are nice, friendly and kind people that have a great sense of humour and are very creative. I don’t have a problem with Madam Vastra and Jenny or the actresses that portray these characters and it would be a small minded individual to equate one very tastefully filmed kiss to a porn channel. one more thing, how much porn has this reviewer been watching in order to compare it to Doctor Who?

  • Kat Full-Steam Powell

    Sooooooo… Captain Jack Harkness embarks on a mission to bang the entire cosmos and that’s okay. But a single chaste lesbian kiss has everyone’s knickers in a twist? WTF, Britain?

  • Angie Dippy Dunne

    Totally ott reaction from people who get enjoyment from moaning. Nothing wrong with a lizbian kiss!

  • Steven R. Machado

    Did anybody cry like this when Jack came out?

  • diagonal_mambo

    I agree. I hate it when characters not only have an explicit sexual orientation, but have to act on it on our screens! Why can’t you just live your life without showing that stuff to kids? I think the worst offenders to date on the show have been Amy and Rory. I get it, you’re straight! Can we please get on with the show now? I did not pay to see a couple straight people locking lips.

    • GulliverUK

      We need to see real life, and real life need to be inclusive. When you can walk hand in hand with your same-sex partner down the high street .. we’ll know we’ve arrived. Sometimes I think overt displays are needed to nudge the majority in to thinking outside their safety zone, outside the box. We are used to living in a world where heteronormative behavior is everywhere, and where we have been invisible, deliberately invisible, for all our lives. If people don’t see things which make them think, it is quite possible they will never consider what it is like to be someone else, to walk in their shoes, to reflect on their own attitudes and where those attitudes come from. It is simply reflecting what true life should be, on screen.

      The very fact that some people are still mentioning it and complaining is a sign we … have not yet arrived.

      • diagonal_mambo

        My comment was sarcasm. I actually 100% agree, and it’s nice to see lesbians featured on shows like this, being one myself.

  • Ashley Fey

    Have a problem with something in the doctor who universe… GET OUT! FAKE WHOVIANS NEED NOT APPLY!

  • Rocker-Cookie

    Would just like to point out that this isn’t the first time that Doctor Who have shown a gay kiss… if anyone remembers when Christopher Eccleston and John Barrowman kiss in what I think was the episode “Bad Wolf”. I think its appalling that people think this way, we shouldn’t be so contradictive to a one minute kiss! it is hardly inappropriate for young children; we aren’t living in the 20th century for goodness sake! It is also definitely not “porn” I mean how can we classify two girls kissing as porn but not a male and female, there is no difference and makes no difference, it is completely unacceptable! People need to get over themselves.

  • CeeCee

    Did everybody forget about the time, ya know, Jack shared a kiss with Rose AND Nine? Anybody? Lol.

    • Judith Laister

      And when Eleven kissed Rory?

  • Rocker Kid

    To the people so afraid of their own feelings, confusion, & true selves that they don’t want the world to see.
    Find a child & have them explain it to you, then grow-up.

  • Brandyn Moskal

    Grow the hell up its 2014. it was a great episode.

  • FinalOwen

    As a pedantic sidenote, this isn’t Doctor Who’s first lesbian kiss. There may well be examples beforehand, but the first I’m aware of is between Izzy Sinclair and Fey Truscott-Sade in the 2003 comic ‘Oblivion’ – incidentally, a wonderful storyline that put a lesbian companion in the forefront for the first time.

  • Angel

    You people that are trying to say they are trying to turn this into porn, GET A LIFE! Really, do you not have anything better to do??? If you don’t like it then don’t watch it. What are you going to do, cover your kids eyes every time you leave the house?? Go find a hole to crawl in and leave everyone else alone.

  • http://dark-scar.deviantart.com/ Dark-Scar

    It wasn’t a kiss oh my god! It was basically CPR, Vastra was giving some oxygen to Jenny so she wouldn’t wind up passing out while the Clockwork droids were surrounding them! Since Vastra is a Silurian she can store more oxygen in her lungs than a human can. Did NO ONE listen to the dialogue at that scene?!

    Also from reading a few reactions in the article, apparently kissing is seen as porn now. Therefore no more kissing from any sexuality on TV! It’s now banned because it’s porn! I swear people are so stupid.

  • HUNTAAR

    And I thought people here in the US were crazy about what they show on tv. And DW is a children’s show? I just cant comprehend that

  • Clara Brooks

    I’m not appreciating where these quotes are from. My searching on the internet finds a lack of reaction and not much interest either way to the lesbian kiss, which is probably as it should be. This article seems to be addressing an outrage that I can’t find any evidence of – what I’m saying is, can you quote your sources please, it would be really, really helpful?

    • LJ

      Telegraph comment section. That’s pretty much it.

  • The Red Dalek

    First of all, for all intents and purposes the kiss was, as others are stating, an action with the intention of survival. I don’t think people would be jumping up and down and discrediting Doctor who if the kiss happened between (not that it would though) the Doctor and Clara. For people to start accusing Steven Moffat of being “on some weird, lizard-lesbian perv trip” for portraying two women who love each other is just twisted and wrong. Do we live in a world were humans (and lizards) are not seen as equals and therefore don’t have the right to express their love? Also, since when did kissing become porn? There have been many episodes in which past characters have been filmed kissing. So why is it that when it shows two women kissing it becomes pornographic.
    Doctor Who features a Time Lord who travels through space and time battling evil monsters and saving countless worlds through means of bending the rules of modern physics. Would you say that this is suitable “children’s program”?
    Do these people now have a problem with a women resuscitating another women? Or the same circumstance with men?
    “No sorry, you can’t give them mouth to mouth. Your a woman”
    Grow up people. I’m disgusted.

  • Pip

    oh my god “blatant gay agenda” yes lets use doctor who to recruit new gay people, especially children. We must start them young. It’s true, doctor who was created entirely for gay recruitment. You’ve foiled our master plan. I’m literally crying with laughter. How are these people real?

  • evillordzog

    What a bunch of ignorant buffoons. Marriage equality is now an inescapable legal fact in the UK so it’s entirely appropriate.

    If anything is offensive about the kiss, it’s that it is indeed forced on them, being scripted as an exercise in buddy-breathing rather than being a simple display of their relationship the way heterosexuals are allowed to interact.

    The idea that Moffat of all people is furthering the so-called
    gay agenda is laughable given his inclusion of queer characters has
    generally been for the purpose of a punch-line.

  • julietvanree

    Luckily it features a lesbian kiss.. After guys kissing guys thank god there’s now girls kissing girls!

  • http://hunteratrandom.blogspot.com/ rmthunter

    Why is it that any program that has anything gay suddenly becomes “family oriented” but not suitable for children?

  • pbeeg

    To quote the show: “She’s a lizard.”

  • jess

    What Idiot said this was a children programming ? Lets remind everyone about CAPTAIN JACK HARKNESS ! And In the episode of Dinosaurs on a spaceship The 11th Doctor kissed Jack.

  • Georgia Shearing

    okay so its not okay for them to kiss? can someone please explain to me why it is okay for John Barrowman to kiss anything and everything that moves but not them?! I just do not understand homophobia and I don’t think I ever will!!! something they should be talking about is who the heck the lady is at the end, not a lesbian kiss!!!

  • Martin

    Don’t like it, don’t watch it. Simple. I don’t like bigoted idiots, so I don’t watch question time, or top gear.

  • sarah

    who cares technically the program was never aimed at kids an if it was to hetros kissing it wouldn’t be a problem im a mother of 2 an i have no problem letting my kids watch if your really a whovian shut up and watch

  • Daniel Spence

    When did having a lesbian kiss in a TV show become news? It’s the most common rating’s stunt since the 90s

  • Leanna Wolfe

    So a show who’s most blatant theme is “don’t judge by appearance and bias,” is being bashed by homophobics? Sadly it’s nothing new but come on people, the world is moving on without you. More than half of the US is allowing same sex marriages which I love. It means when I find a woman I want to be with for the rest of my life I can put a ring on her

  • Alicia

    What made me laugh is that the reviewer said it was turning into a porn show, this ‘kiss’ is apparently bad when we have body harvesters in the show and, in real life, we have these days, 10 year Oldshaving full on ssee with their’boyfriends’ and having kids from such things. Something tells me that if two adults who love each other (regardless of gender) can’tkiss (not that it was if the reviewer cared to pay attention) then what does that teach kids?

    Besides, look at Jack Harkness, he kissed the 9th Doctor an flirts with many guys but this is what gets attention!? Guess gay males are fine just that woman who are guy are not. Great! Thanks for being a homophobic sexist ignorant douche guys who are complaining about this.

  • Julian St Ives

    The scene where a lesbian lizard savours a life-saving tryst with her lover become her maid for appearances sake, seems no more than a gratuitous attempt by adults, to foster a concept of a new ‘norm’ in the pre-libidinous minds of those which Society in general considers should be protected from sexualisation

  • Cait

    In a country that has recently legalised gay marriage, a simple kiss should not be something that concerns people, grow up, what are you going to do when your child sees two men or women kissing on the high street? tell them its not for children’s eyes so they have to stop? seriously ridiculous. Go doctor who for finally showing kids some truth about todays society

  • Peter North

    And the unintentional-pun-from-a-homophobe award goes to –

    “Found those characters that liked to display their preferences to be inappropriate for a children’s program, but the BBC seem to want to become a porn channel and are slowly edging into it.

  • Judy

    Truly? Dr Who is a *children’s* program? This suggests that the level of discernment of the reviewers is fairly low.

  • David Loehmann

    Much ado about nothing. My favorite complaint: “Not with my license fees; not with my tax dollars!” As if no one else pays the same fees and taxes, only them. Piss off you unnatural people you! The only perversion going on is the one locked within your own mind.

    Kissing is not porn. There was no agenda here, only an effort to preserve life by sharing oxygen. No lust was involved, merely the kiss of life.

    Better hope you never need the kiss of life from drowning. If I were the only one present while you were gasping for air, I would lean over you and whisper in your ear: “I’m going to save you from the disgusting humiliation of my gay lips touching yours. I will simply stand over you and watch you die. Glory to God!”

  • Z

    This show has been clearly campaigning pro-gay rights since Captain Jack Harkness. Since when has homosexual kissing by guys been okay and lesbian kisses are not? Also since when has kissing been considered porn? This is in no way Steven Moffat on some weird pervy lesbian lizard phase, this is him, and all the writers, showing that the show supports equal rights. I thought we were over all this “lesbian kissing on screen” drama when Joss Wheden had one of the first ever lesbian kisses on screen in Buffy. Why is there such an uproar again when times are changing and this stuff is on TV all the time? Gay and lesbian couples are becoming a normal part of society whether people like it or not and this is just one more show with a lesbian couple who is, god forbid, kissing on screen.

  • Julian St. Ives

    David Loehmann describes himself as a muscular homo with a chip on his shoulder, who would happily kick the …of those, etc. Really David ? You sound pretty tough and your post, is bordering on hateful.

    You are aware that all aggression stems from fear, aren’t you David ?

  • Richard Harney

    This show is NOT targeted for kids. What ever gave anyone that impression. It is targeted toward the 18-34 demographic. I’m 38 and also grew up watching Doctor Who and I’m sure there are much older than me that watch it.

  • Andy Schmandy

    Once again, the quotes used in this article from a ‘reviewer’ are actually from the comments section of the Telegraph online review. Not a reviewer, just some idiot with a keyboard.
    It didn’t even register with the room full of people I watched the ep with. I love PInk News but wish they’d stop trying to stir up outrage with non-stories like this one.

  • Dew A. Mondra

    Believing themselves ( albeit erroneously ) to have successfully killed God and His Word; they now seek to destroy Innocence by employing specious argument, to make virtue out of personal preference.

    And Equal Rights, does not mean Obligatory Representation.

    • That River Gal

      And commas, do not mean what, you think, they, do.

  • Rrhain

    In my best Yoda voice:

    “Over it, get! Yes!”

  • Sascha616

    Oh what?? Did anyone diss on it being an inter species kiss too? (Oh yes, they did.) They did when Kirk did it in Star Trek too. AND the first inter-‘racial’ kiss (also on Trek, I believe.)FFS. A kiss is a kiss and they ARE married (as the script took GREAT pains to emphasise, which actually ground my gears, like being ‘married’ gives physical contact and expressions of love any added legitimacy.)

    And weren’t they, actually in um MORTAL DANGER at the time (something I also thought was a tad shoehorned in like, oh look it’s ok they’re snogging because really they’re sharing air so they don’t die.) PLEASE -_-

    QUOTE OF THE ARTICLE: “One reviewer wrote: “Found those characters that liked to display their preferences to be inappropriate for a children’s program, but the BBC seem to want to become a porn channel and are slowly edging into it. I think they wish to come out of the closet, well I have no objection to that if they become a private adult channel, but not on our licence fee.””

    OMFG, where do I start??
    A PORN channel!?!?! What??? (Apologies for the extra punctuation…)
    AND it’s ‘programme’ (yes my grammar head arose too.)

    The staggering level of privilege in this comment well I wish I could say it astounds me but IT REALLY DOESN’T.

    Private adult channel??? You know what, I’m actually in danger of feeling SORRY for the kids of this reviewer. (And yes I’m aware of the irony of this.)

    Another equally weird quote: “Another wrote: “I thought it was gratuitous and not particularly welcome in a family show aimed at kids. It just seems [executive producer Steven Moffat] is on some weird, lizard-lesbian perv trip.” PERV trip? REALLY? As Denis says in the comments “In an episode that features the harvesting of human organs to create, in part, a skin covered hot air balloon, on a show about space/time travel people complain about children not understanding kissing. Got it.”

    You know what, I’d actuality forgotten about the kiss (of life). Capaldi’s attack eyebrows and Strax hastily amending his plan to NOT melt the Doctor in acid as the final part of ‘recovering’ him made FAR more of an impact on me. (As in I was amused, not ‘*Appalled* from Surbiton’ -with apologies to anyone here from Surbiton!)

    WON’T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN??? JFC, won’t somebody just take all these cockwombles up in the TARDIS and -ing jettison them on a planet with no oxygen? Kthx.

    WHAT goes on in these people’s heads? I could rant about this for longer, but for now will content myself with ‘I don’t even…’

  • Raven

    People will complain about anything. They weren’t even kissing, they were sharing oxygen. The next thing people will say is that you can only recieve CPR from someone of the opposite gender. And they are married, how much more wholesome and family oriented can you get than to show married people kissing?

    If people have trouble explaining things to their children its their own failings as parents. My four year old understands it.

  • Elizabeth

    What the hell? This is honestly one of the most offensive articles I’ve seen published. Hello, world, I’m a teenager. I regret to inform you that because of my young exposure to a kiss (technically, it wasn’t even an actual kiss, but for the sake of argument we’ll pretend that’s what it was, because that’s certainly your mindset) between two canonically married woman, I resort to lesbianism and reject the heteronormative path of justice.
    What the hell?
    Look, I am a queer teenager. I wasn’t “turned gay” because I saw an overabundance of women kissing on television. In fact, I don’t think there are many shows that have the balls to show two women kissing on television, with the exception of those that have explicitly homoerotic/romantic plots. IT’S JUST A KISS. Children, especially in this day and age of overtly-sexual soap operas, know what a kiss is. They know what it means for two people to love each other. They know what the theme of marriage, and indeed the act, represents.
    So stop talking this homophobic rubbish and publish an article with an actual critique of the episode itself, instead of a blatant dis of the queer community.

  • Cheri

    All the wars and death and destruction in the world and this is pushing people’s buttons. Who cares? There are more important things to get worked up about than a kiss between two fictional characters.

  • Alisha Merritt

    SERIOUSLY! WTF PEOPLE! It was a kiss, I don’t remember hearing anybody complain about Captain Jack Harkness when he kissed The Doctor. They all need to calm down and get over themselves. Homosexuality exists period, and in my opinion it doesn’t matter whether your straight, gay, lesbian or even Bisexual love is love.

    It was a kiss, and in my opinion WASN’T PORN! No idea where you all got that idea.

    Just get over it children should know what kissing is at least nowadays, and they’ll find out about all of that stuff eventually, so just tell them as best as they can understand depending on how old they are, jeeze!!!

  • Caity CV

    I think it’s really offensive to the gay community that saying BBC is turning into porn by showing one lesbian kiss. Christopher Eccleston and Billie Piper kissed, David Tennant and Bille Piper kissed. Hell, even Christopher Eccleston and John Barrowman kissed. How is a lesbian kiss different? Where are supposed to be in 2014 where gay marriage is accepted!

  • El Lime Head

    I don’t see the problem here.. you’re more worried about two women kissing than the fact that one of them is a million year old lizard. Seems legit.

  • Star Firewitch

    LOL
    Get over it.. its a kiss, who cares who it’s between.
    Children are probably not as weirded out by it as you are.
    I rather enjoyed the episode and was very unfazed by the kiss.

  • klarax

    if its because of homosexuality. wtf. get used to it, cos its the world we live in and is just as popular as normal realtionships.

    If its cos kids watch it, then how about stop them watching music videos which is so porn-like these days is unbelievable. Especially that Nikki Minaj video !!

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