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Labour peer Lord Glasman sympathises with anti-gay Catholic adoption agencies

  • DTNorth

    P!ss off Lord idiot, and stuff your “faith” up yer @rse.

    • Jesus_Mohammed

      Exactly! He said: “I understand the scepticism from Catholics, from all faithful people.” “All faithful people”? All deluded people, more like! Deluded people who in this day and age actually BELIEVE in the existence of a big supernatural thingy, who, they say, loves them dearly!

      People like Glasman don’t realise how HILARIOUS and/or SICK they appear to rational folk.

      Take him away! Put him in a straight-jacket!

      • Silly Old Bastard

        I do think you dribbled down your chin when you typed that.

        • Steven Gregory

          Did you shart your nappy?

          • Silly Old Bastard

            Come on. You can do better than that.

          • Steven Gregory

            It was a literary device.

          • Truth

            Hahahaha! Touché

      • Steven Gregory

        Religion is useful for people who still wonder where the Sun hides at night, who believe that men have one less rib than women because women are made from a man’s rib, and who marvel at stories of burning bushes, parting waters and UNICORNS!

        • Truth

          For those with little else in their lives, religion provides ‘comfort’ and a ‘hobby’. But it is based on self-delusion (like a childish belief in Santa Claus). Self-delusion is a mental illness. It’s time we started offering sufferers psychological help.

        • Ric Hill

          I respect the way you are respectfully disagreeing with all these people. We know the Bible is written in analogy, nice stories and comparisons. Remember also, unless you are fluent in Aramaic, you are reading a politically oriented committee translation. So did the waters part as Charleston Heston walked across? Possibly not as, before the Suez Canal, a mere man made ditch, the water across the northern most part of the Red Sea almost annually went dry because of the lack of rain and sandstorms. The Pharaoh then might have been a couple of days behind when a flash flood caused him to abort is mission. Also questionable were items which in the main scheme mean little such as the explanation of how a male has one less rib than a female. I will even through in that Adam and Eve had only sons but somehow each son found a chic to bang with. As for Unicorns, weren’t they related to the Purple People eater who blew crazy music through the horn in his head?

    • PaulBrownsey

      What self-hatred: using “up your arse” as a term of abuse…

      • DTNorth

        How can loathing someone else’s opinion equate to “self-hatred”.

        You should try education instead of indoctrination.

  • Neville

    This Jew merely gives weight to the fact that religious faith is a mental illness and that the Roman Catholic Church is the working of evil in the world.

    • JD

      Bravo!

    • Silly Old Bastard

      I’m uncomfortable in your describing religion as a mental illness, when being gay was at one time thought to be. If the two items were stood side by side, and people in the street asked to point their finger…You know the rest.

      • CHBrighton

        So, in your view, believing in make-believe rather than reality is wholesome, is it?

        • Silly Old Bastard

          The possibility of the universe created by an intelligence far beyond our comprehending that fulfils the role of god is not exactly make-believe. Unless you’ve closed your mind to reasonable debate.

          • Steven Gregory

            Religion whose basis is “belief” and “faith” is not “reasonable.” Or was that just another “literary device?”

          • Silly Old Bastard

            Michael Faraday showed great interest in something called electrical charge. Hardly reasonable at the time, but he went ahead anyway. Fortunately, you weren’t around to ‘help’ him as it happened.

          • Steven Gregory

            Your comparison of science and myth is laughable.
            Bye time-waster.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            Remember, if you can’t touch it, taste it, see it, sniff it or hear it, it isn’t. Like a silent fart then, apart from the taste and sniff bits.

          • Truth

            You appear to be contradicting yourself because, when talking about ‘faith’, is it your believe that you CAN touch it, taste it, etc …?

          • PaulBrownsey

            It’s not faith whose touchability, smellability, etc, is in question here. It’s the god or gods whom religious people have faith in.

          • Jon (Malaysia)

            Ummm I’ve touched electricity, and it’s not nice. You can see it (sparks), smell it (burnt ignition system), Hear it (snap!) All those signs were around except burning ignition systems, but there were lightening induced forest fires, so it wasn’t faith based research, it was evidence based.

          • Jon (Malaysia)

            You can, and I admit Michael Faraday didn’t have this, even taste electricity. Put your tongue on a 9V battery to see if it’s charged :) (not recommended, but effective)

          • Silly Old Bastard

            Electricity was always here, but until the likes of Faraday, it needn’t have been because nobody realised it. I can’t believe I putting this down for you, as I’m sure you’re no young schoolboy.

          • PaulBrownsey

            Now who’s showing his six-former credentials?

      • Steven Gregory

        You would be “comfortable” with asking “people in the street” to determine the issue by pointing their finger?

        • Silly Old Bastard

          Sorry to disappoint you but that was merely literary device

          • Steven Gregory

            What’s your point, then?

          • Silly Old Bastard

            Literal.

      • Sam Gray

        To be honest, striping away religious rhetoric, if i said i was committing a crime, any crime, because i was told to by my imaginary friend, i would be sectioned. Why is it religion is the exception?? Does an imaginary friend become real because the belief is shared by many??

        Look at religion objectively, a religion is a superstitious gang with a shared ideology, it is not based on knowledge, fact or reason and the very core of the ideology asks us to sacrifice logic and believe in something that there is no evidence of existing.

        I would not go so far as to say it is a mental illness, i would say it is a shared delusion that has created these ultra-violent militants in all major ideologies. The modern era is not a place for such a disruptive group of organisations and the sooner people stop believing in this fantasy, the safer our world will become. I would embrace fact, not faith.

        • Jon (Malaysia)

          Brilliant! My only ‘but’ is, I probably would consider having delusions is having a mental illness.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            Throwing ‘mental illness’ around like you do makes you look very silly indeed

        • Silly Old Bastard

          That’s it is it? The extent of your argument.

          • Sam Gray

            Questioning the extent of the argument seems to be what happens if you have nothing else to say, i was after all, responding to your point on religion is (not) a mental illness.

            I suspect you are possibly a religious person yourself, but you haven’t presented to me a counter argument, and you will not change my mind on the matter by solely questioning my argument.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            I questioned the extent of your argument because I was hoping you had moved on from sixth form thinking. Sorry to trouble you, and goodbye.

          • Sam Gray

            Oh please, you still cant present a counter argument, instead of attacking my “6th form” viewpoint, why dont you prove me wrong.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            To have faith in religion is to have faith in a power far greater than you can imagine. That is noble. Not to have it is to rely on the vagaries of man. A really depressing alternative.

          • Sam Gray

            Possibly but it also creates tribalism in the world, the values of love and acceptance could be noble, however the contradictory doctrine divides the world based on faith. Where is the nobility in opposing gender and sexual equality?? Where is the nobility in attacking peoples of other faiths, are they not noble too??

            To me it is savage, and demands people relinquish their mental freedom. Science transcends these barriers between religious tribes and is a vehicle for social and cultural advancement. It actually extends our knowledge base

            Do not get me wrong, a world without the religious ethics would be one of dystopia, however in we once lived in a dark age where religion had extensive power and it held us back.

            What we need is a balance where the ethics are protected but the violence and core of the religion needs to be striped away. Sooner the religous movements realise they share the ethics of care and compassion, the sooner the world can work towards full equality.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            I’m a Christian. You’re describing Islam up there Earlier, I was looking out of my window and could see a man leaning on my gate. He’d put a can of what looked suspiciously like Special Brew on the wall while he composed himself. I’m his equal am I, and he mine?

          • PaulBrownsey

            In what way are the two of you not equal?

            You may be kinder in some respects than he is; but if you are, try showing it on this board.

          • PaulBrownsey

            Yes, he’s being deliberately offensive. But he has a point. Try thinking how it is a matter of fashion and extra-medical considerations, what gets classified as a mental disorder and what doesn’t. Once upon a time, kids who didn’t attend to their lessons were called naughty and punished. Now they are said to suffer from ADHD and injected with drugs. This wasn’t a simple empirical discovery, you know, No-one looked through a microscope and said, “Ooh, look, there’s a DISORDER there.” The change came about differently.

      • Truth

        Religious belief is self-delusion. Self-delusion is a mental illness. People choose to be religious. People do not choose to be gay. Unless, of course, you can prove otherwise ….

        • Silly Old Bastard

          You too sweetheart. Throwing ‘mental illness’ around like you do makes you look very silly indeed

          • Truth

            Not ‘silly’, surely? Reasoned. Religious ‘belief’ is putting your ‘faith’ in the existence of a sky fairy for which there is not one iota of tangible evidence. This is ‘self-delusion’. People who are ‘delusional’ are mentally ill and require treatment. Just because millions of people around the world ‘believe’ does not mean they are not mentally ill.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            I think you need to get out into the real world and put your ideas to the test. You desperately need second opinions on what you are coming out with. Don’t rely on votes up on this site, there are some bigger fools than you who view here.

          • PaulBrownsey

            SOB is apt to make his points in a deliberately objectionable way, but some of them are actually good points.

            A look at the history of the notion of mental health soon makes it clear that what is or isn’t dubbed a mental illness often reflects social attitudes, and changes as social attitudes change. There was a time when women who sought careers outside the home were thought of as suffering a mental disorder (denying their true femininity, etc). Plato thought ALL immoral behaviour was or sprang from a form of mental illness. Official psychiatry in soviet Russia maintained that political dissidents were mentally disordered. (It wasn’t JUST a trick to keep them out of the way of Amnesty snoops: their ‘theory’ pointed that way.) Alcoholism was once regarded as a vice (Hogarth, Gin Lane, etc); now it is medicalised as an illness. And so on. It is wise to be sceptical about diagnoses of this or that phenomenon as a mental disorder.

        • PaulBrownsey

          Actually, people do not choose to be religious. If it is borne in upon me that ‘of course’ the world had a creator, I can’t help believing that. You can no more help what you believe than you can help what you feel. I believe it’s a sunny day–I can’t help believing it. (I DO have empirical evidence, which religious believers don’t; but that’s just because my believing-process happens to follow empirical evidence, not because I CHOOSE to believe what’s in front of my eyes.)

          If I could choose to believe, then I could choose to believe you are Elton John’s brother. I can’t do that. I can choose to PRETEND to believe it; I can choose to ACT AS IF I believed it; but I can’t simply choose to believe it.

    • Johnny

      This Jew…?

      I can smell the synagogues a-burning as I type.

      As the saying goes:

      “Show me an Englishman and I will show you a bigot.”

  • Jones

    Remember your history Mr Glasman. Our peoples have been side by side together in Hitler’s gas chambers.

    • Silly Old Bastard

      No evidence whatsoever of homosexuals being sent to the gas
      chambers merely for being homosexual. Yes they died of ill treatment and summary execution in the camps, alongside Political opponents of the Nazis, Trade Unionists, Priests, Conscientious objectors, Free Masons, Anti Socials, Soviet citizens including POWs. All these groups and more died in the camps, but only the Jews and Gypsies were systematically murdered on such an industrial scale, if you exclude the euthanasia policy in place before war broke out. One more thing, to be gay is not to be a separate people as you imply.

      • Phil H

        There are different sources, but many disagree with you…

        http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/homo.html

        I’m off to Amsterdam tomorrow. See you at the homomonument.

      • Peeps99

        Between 1933 and 1945, an estimated 100,000 men were arrested as homosexuals, of whom some 50,000 were officially sentenced. Most of these men served time in regular prisons, and an estimated 5,000 to 15,000 of those sentenced were incarcerated in concentration camps. Once in the camps, the majority died, they usually didn’t make it into the gas chamber, as they were persecuted to death in a multitude of other ways.

        Evidence from Wikipedia of homosexuals being sent to the concentration camps for being homosexual. Seems a pretty industrial scale to me. Those who seek to persecute us do see us as ‘others’ as a separate people

        • Silly Old Bastard

          Please don’t tell me you believe in Wiki above all? Being a homosexual in Nazi Germany was a misdemeanour, same as the UK at the time. On a par with theft. You might as well claim that German thieves were sent to the gas chamber too. I have not denied that gay men were murdered in the camps, just that there was no industrial gassing of them..

          • Peeps99

            Wiki is a convenient short cut, there’s a wealth of other detail on the treatment of gay men by the Nazi’s. I’m pleased we at least agree gay men were murdered by the Nazi-German state simply on account of their sexuality. At least in Britain the state stopped murdering gay men from about 1860-ish onward, so not at all on a par with the UK at the time.

        • Jon (Malaysia)

          Many afternoons I go to a regular pub and have ‘a’ beer with a few regulars. The elderly gentleman is Chinese, The dark skinned guy is Indian, The darker skinned guy is African (Egypt). I am Caucasian and gay. The waiter is Filipino. We are all ‘others’ and noticeably so and acknowledged as such yet we are all together equally enjoying the beer and the sunshine, equally paying the tab, and equally having a great time cursing the government; yours mine theirs.

      • Jones

        Homosexuals were branded with pink stars to start with then sent off, along with others classed as ‘inferior’ by the Nazi regime, to concentration camps. It’s common historical knowledge.

        • Silly Old Bastard

          There were many patches sewn onto camp uniforms. Wiki lists and illustrates them. Pink stars were just one, but unlike what you say, only and in the camps. They were not branded inferior at all. That’s just you on a self pity trip. They were Germans in the main, the Uber people.

        • PaulBrownsey

          Concentration camps and extermination camps were both vile but they were not, I think, the same thing. Truth shouldn’t be lost sight of.

      • Truth

        Just because you cannot accept facts doesn’t mean you can rewrite history. There is AMPLE evidence – photographic and documentary – of people being sent to the gas chambers because their sexuality was viewed as ‘subversive’ and ‘non-Arian’. Hitler needed and demanded ‘conformity’. Anything out of ‘the norm’ was viewed as threatening to the cause. Putin and several African dictators are employing exactly the same tactics today …..

        • Silly Old Bastard

          Oh no, you’ve implied Putin is just like Hitler. Your credibility destroyed immediately!
          Hitler made no provision for gassing gypsies yet they were. The SS had gypsies being sent to their camps all the time. They were gassed to make room for these incomers. That is the only known deviation from their orders of industrial murder. It was an operational requirement to keep the camps from bursting point.

  • temp

    Even Labour are post catholic. Living in the past

  • That There Other David

    And by this logic it’s “perfectly legitimate” for LGBTs to be sceptical of Labour because of people like Lord Glasman.

    Looks like Labour’s losing votes all over the place doesn’t it your Lordship?

  • Sam Gray

    The catholic church are specifically responsible for the dark ages and keeping education out of the reach of the poor, as well as the “pay your way” into heaven philosophy – any sin can be repented as long as you have the money.

    I would never be so blind or down right idiotic to ever call the catholic church as a provider of “intellectual nourishment” it has always opposed gender and sexual equality, the progression of society and science and that is completely out of step with the UK.

    It demands people to sacrifice reason and logic to believe in a mythical entity that is neither logical or intellectual, there is absolutely no grounds for that organisation to ever be considered intellectual

  • JackAlison

    nice try.
    but everyday “how de doo” catholics might go to church
    but theyre not that stupid with a hypicritcal church administration that is very lacking in its approach to women gays and church abuse.
    In every country on earth that the church has evangilized there has been the untold tragedy of sexual abuse toward young children
    the time calls for a long look at getting ur own house in order before you chastize others and their ability to raise children

    • Steven Gregory

      Bravo! It is time for the child rape coven to stop denouncing anyone.

  • AndyAS

    And if anyone tried to force a Jewish adoption agency to accept gay couples against their ‘religious beliefs’ he’d be at the front of the queue shouting “Anti-semitism”

  • Alexander Kelso Shiels

    Just another one of these demented fools who think what they say really matters, which it does not! I begin to wonder where these people get their education from as all I hear is nonsense from them.

  • Silly Old Bastard

    A difficult one when two sets of rights come up against each
    other. I have to say that I had a wonderful childhood with two parents, and
    would want to see as many children as possible go through that. I haven’t got it
    in me to stop the Catholics from making their contribution because of their
    convictions. I’m on the side of the children here. Where’s the harm in
    that?

    • Neville

      So you want those of religious faith to be able to discriminate against gay people when it comes to the provision of goods and services. This is a dangerous attitude . It could lead to all kinds of discrimination merely because ‘My Church said so”.

      • Silly Old Bastard

        Didn’t say that. I said children come first. Forget everything else.

        • Neville

          However, you do want Roman Catholics to be able to discriminate against gay people, for implicit in what you say is the premise that gay adopters do not do a good job whereas Roman Catholic adopters do. If Roman Catholic adoption societies were not bigoted they would allow gay couples to adopt children from their societies. Bigotry is bigotry and this is exactly what these adoption societies are.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            However nothing. You’ve got my message. Deal with it.

          • Neville

            Ah, so you are a bigot. I have dealt with it as, no doubt, others will.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            You worship bigotry in your own small way. I prefer Christ and his expressed love for children.

          • Neville

            Oh,dear, mental illness supervenes. I thought so! Others, no doubt, will take note.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            Religion is mental illness eh. One mentions it and the rest of the herd follow along. Well done.

          • Neville

            Yes, indeed, you have proved yourself to be a bigot by your desire to allow Roman Catholics to discriminate against gay people. You put this down to your religion. Therefore is it not surprising that you come over as a thoroughly unpleasant person. When you refer to the herd following, this is exactly what religious people do when they follow the irrational tenets of their church.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            I’m not a Catholic.

          • Neville

            But you are equally foolish!

          • Truth

            Without wishing to offend in any way, could I just ask if you were born obnoxious and self-loathing or was it your ‘loving family upbringing’ and ‘love of Jesus’ which has inspired this rather unattractive character trait…?

          • Silly Old Bastard

            I feel your hurting, and wish to help you. Let me

          • Truth

            Haha. No, dear. It is clearly you that is hurting – with self-loathing. Just embrace your sexuality and try to erase all the nonsensical self-hatred you were taught by religion in your childhood. (And I think ‘your’ should have been ‘you’re’)

          • Silly Old Bastard

            No, grammatically correct. You have a ‘hurting’. It’s yours and I feel it. You call yourself Truth and have a mission to put everyone right. When you do, and it can’t be far off, you’ll stop your hurting.

          • Jon (Malaysia)

            Well, I, this left handed (no choice), gay (no choice) Athiest (choice after being raised Episcopal) and individually conceived the idea that religion is a mental illness long before anyone ever suggested a herd mentality. Many left or right handed gays have thought that long before it became a rather collective norm. Of course it got to be kinda like being a part of the herd once we realized how badly religion hates us and need us for scapegoats to cover up their inadequacies and fallacies.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            Your derision of religion is a result of your own paranoia then.

        • Peeps99

          If children come first, then you should want to be brought up in a loving, stable, caring family environment, regardless of the gender make-up of the guardians. Yet you would want (Catholic) children left behind in institutions rather then be adopted by same-sex couples? Nothing whatever to do with the ability to provide a decent loving home, just blind ideological prejudice. I do wish some people would think of the children.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            What I want has nothing to do with it. There are Catholic adoption agencies who can do something for children. Move you body of protest out of the way before someone kicks it out of the way and tars all gay people as uncompromising selfish extremists like yourself.

          • Peeps99

            haha, we’re the the uncompromising selfish extremists? Who is it putting ideology ahead of children in threatening to provide no service at all rather than having to deal with gay people? And in what would probably be a relatively small number of instances too.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            That’s it. There’s clearly an intellectual and empathy gap between us too far to be bridged. There will be no more. You can go and graze now.

          • Peeps99

            If you have no counter-argument, that’s fine with me. Silly insults don’t concern me, I’m not going to engage in those. One question though – are you gay? Does it really not bother you that religion (which is a choice – people are not born with religion) should have the right to discriminate against gay people (which is about as much of a choice as being left-handed is)?

          • Silly Old Bastard

            More to an asexual position I’d like to think. Does that count?

          • Peeps99

            You tell me. And on the second question?

          • Silly Old Bastard

            Oi! I’m in the driving seat here. You speak when I say you can.

          • Peeps99

            Oh, I do like it when you are all masterful with me :-)

          • Silly Old Bastard

            Forgive me. A weakness of mine, developing a master / servant relationship. I’ve tried everything to stop it, but it still happens.

  • Rehan

    ord Glasman also defended Catholic social teaching as “the basis of the new politics, of the new consensus.”

    I do wish he’d gone on to explain how, as it’s a complete mystery (appropriately enough for anything to do with Catholicism) to me.

  • JSM

    There’s a lack of understanding and a lack of appreciation for family.”

    We are family.

    We are almost certainly part of your family and most every other family although some of us hide it from ourselves and some of us hide from you.

    We are family and many of us want more family.

    We are family and you treat us as less than human. Your hypocritical immoral behavior disgusts me. You want less family but we are here and we are staying here. And we will have more family that we will raise with more love and morality than you have raised yours.

    • Jon (Malaysia)

      And if you trust Richard Dawkins’ knowledge of biology, you can honestly say, “Good morning, cousin Oak Tree”. That pretty much makes all living things family.

  • Robert W. Pierce

    Well, let’s turn the tables on him. Would he agree that gay businesses, especially those owned by atheists should be allowed to reciprocate by discriminating against religious foes of equal marriage since non-belief in God might offend or is in direct conflict with theirs?

    • Silly Old Bastard

      Not one of your best, and there’s no delete button

    • Jon (Malaysia)

      Personally, I would like to be able to discriminate against religionists of all stripes, as I wouldn’t want delusional customers OR employees. Bad for business.

  • CHBrighton

    Oh, our glorious democracy in which a wealthy donor to a political party, a prime minister’s typist or, as in this case, a politician’s speech writer can be shoe-horned into the legislature – for life – and spout whatever uninformed crap they like. And because they are now in the upper house with the title ‘Lord’ or ‘Lady’ they can expect to be listened to. It’s monstrous. And this man is being paid by us, GLBT taxpayers, every time he utters his homophobic nastiness in Parliament.

  • Steven Gregory

    Overwhelming evidence supports eliminating Catholic involvement with children.

    • Ric Hill

      OUCH.. But funny none the less.

      Tread easier as this Pope might just be on target to make some huge changes He has already blasted the Church hierarchy for spending too much time on sex. I wish I could send you a respected former priest, Tom Kane, who quit for the correct reason.

      • Steven Gregory

        I am of the camp that gives the Pope no credit for charming statements, but holds him responsible for the ongoing misdeeds of a gigantic money machine. If he liquidated the Vatican and fed the poor with the proceeds, I might reconsider.

        • Ric Hill

          I am not Catholic as I have said. This Pope might just be forcing that issue faster than you think. This link has more insight than I do.

          Your thought is exactly what the Muslims want to do. This is a crazy world, getting worse and sometimes allies are hard to find. and live in crazy places.

          • Steven Gregory

            The Muslims want to liquidate the Vatican and feed the poor with the proceeds? If so, then we have similar thoughts, but it doesn’t make me a Muslim or extremist.

            Do you value the Catholic church? I do not.

  • Truth

    Amazing that someone from such a persecuted minority as The Jews can so readily defend prejudice against others. People have such short, selective memories …..

  • doug

    “The most important thing is to express my gratitude to the (Catholic) Church….”

    Tell that to the millions of Jews who died in the Holocaust, including presumably adopted children.

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