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Baptist Minister: ‘Most people’ don’t want the history of gay marriage taught to their kids

  • David Greensmith

    “If you remove God you’re left with no moral responsibility” – says man who preaches a religion that says if you’re a serial killer and repent, your sins will be forgiven. I think we’ve seen just how much moral responsibility has been demonstrated by people who DO have God in their lives. They haven’t set the bar very high.

    • Steven Gregory

      A couple of years ago I heard a very compelling argument that there is no room for morality in religion.

      Morality concerns exercising personal choice based upon a set of standards. Religion is about obedience and disobedience, no choosing or reasoning, dictates only.

    • anon

      Typical religious person confusing ethics and morals.

      Religious people are very often amoral because they rely so heavily on the crutch of (religious) ethics to govern their behaviour.
      Morals on the other hand are your character. To develop that, it’s necessary to think for yourself.

  • violets49

    You can’t remove God. He was never there in the first place!

  • Halou

    Mr Priest Man finishes on a rather odd note. “If you remove the thought of God you’re left with no moral responsibility.”

    As though everybody is a criminal maniac just waiting to break out and would do so without a moment’s notice were it not for an invisible celestial policeman of sorts who tells them not to do it and threatens to punish them if they did. No such thing as goodness for goodness sake in a Baptist’s world.

    It might be why they treat everyone else like scum, they really do believe that everyone on earth is scum even their own followers, but not the religion’s leadership though because they’re all perfect and can do no wrong. Even that Baptist leader man who got caught looking online for dogs to have sex with, he hasn’t caught a word of flak from his organization.

    • Steven Gregory

      Wonderful comment.
      Another consideration: There is no “morality” in religion, only obedience and disobedience. Morality is decision-making based upon a set of standards and lessons learned. There are no decisions to be made in religion: you either toe-the-line or you’re out-of-line, the decision is to do as one is told.

  • Silly Old Bastard

    I can see his point. It’s because people with children are defensive of them and want to be made grandparents at some stage. Do you see the problem.

    • Robert W. Pierce

      What’s stopping any parent from becoming a grandparent just because gay people marry or teaching children about relationships? This is reality 2014, not 1954. It hasn’t stopped any hetero marrying since the law was introduced and people continue procreating which is also a choice. Not all heteros can reproduce.

      • Silly Old Bastard

        It’s a difficult area, hetros’ children’s education.. Best avoid it or at the very least tread carefully.

        • ECarpenter

          You really ARE what your nickname suggests, aren’t you? How can knowing about all the different kinds of people who get married be bad for children?

          And haven’t you noticed all the gay and lesbian couples having children? We don’t need them, the world is overpopulated as it is, but there are certainly a lot of parents of gay people who are becoming grandparents these days.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            Tiny numbers, you’ll find.

            PINK NEWS!! Intrusive adverts again. If I have to struggle to post here, I won’t bother.

          • Gayseraph

            Oh my, what a shame that would be

    • CHBrighton

      So, you think children are the property of their parents, do you, and think that children are born only to fulfil their parents wants and needs? Forced marriages anyone? The problem, I think, is that parents like you, Mr SOB, fail to see their children as autonomous beings who have a right to be educated to fulfil their own potential and view them as mere appendages of themselves. How have you coped with your own gay children and other relatives?

      • Silly Old Bastard

        Parents have a duty of stewardship when it comes to their children. Natures way. I would rather it was them than some single man living in Brighton who thinks he knows better.

        • Silly Old Bastard

          I have no children, but nephews and nieces. As for whether anyone of them are gay, they’re not saying and no ones asking.

          • CHBrighton

            They’re not saying probably because they know what kind of an unlovely reception they’d get. I hope there’s someone else in the family they can open their hearts to.

        • CHBrighton

          I am neither single nor, as it happens, in Brighton. I’m sitting in a Mediterranean garden talking to two men, married to each other, and discussing the progress their two two-year-old sons are making. You should be here, too, to watch loving parenthood at its best.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            What, no mother for them? Poor mites. It just isn’t right.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            Gay men parenting 2 year old children is a queer too far in my book. Gay couples used to specialise in rearing dogs. I had the good fortune of having a colleague who was a Crufts judge. Told me all about the gay involvement in show dogs, which was, probably still is, extensive. She had to ask me for emergency leave once as she had been been implicated in some tail docking scandal and had to help the police with their enquiries. Lovely lady, long retired but I believe still with us.

  • Robert W. Pierce

    Church/faith schools don’t receive public funding? Since when? So, this loon speaks for the majority of the British public? I don’t think so. None of us choose to be gay and ours is not a lifestyle unlike his which is. He chooses to be an ignoramous and an idiot.

    • Silly Old Bastard

      Stop being so angry for once. Just chill as the young people say.

      • Robert W. Pierce

        Am not in the slightest bit angry, just despair at the stupidity of some people.

      • ECarpenter

        And why, exactly, should gay people stop being angry at religious bigots who continue to treat us as immoral, wicked people? They have been the cause of immeasurable suffering, and continue to inflict suffering today. Woe to the poor gay and lesbian kids in that church.

        • Silly Old Bastard

          Irritated but not angry. Religion is not going to go away. It is foolish to burden yourself as you do.

          • anon

            Getting rid of religion is a noble goal.

            Although my upbringing was western/liberal, I am constantly impressed to the extent which China has suppressed religion.
            A few old or less educated people are Taoist, or traditional ancestor worship.
            So don’t kid yourself. Religion definitely can be made to go away.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            Be careful what you wish for. Communism traditionally has a poor record on homosexuality. In the Soviet Union, ‘repeat offenders’ were packed off to lunatic asylums.

      • Steven Gregory

        I’m not sure how you’re reading Pierce’s comment, but I didn’t detect anger.

    • Bikerman

      All state sector faith schools receive public funding

  • David H

    Of course they don’t want the history of gay marriage teaching to their kids. That’s because “gay marriage” exists only in the minds of the bigoted churches (and let’s remember that there are some diverse ones out there) and it massively exposes their bigotry and hypocrisy.

    To everyone else it is simply “marriage” and very simple to talk to children about, thus: “when two people love each other very much and want to spend the rest of their lives together, they get married.”

    Of course, to the bigoted churches it’s a different matter: “When two people, who love each other very much, want to spend the rest of their lives together, they get married. But, they can only get married in our church, if they are a man and woman. It’s a little bit like when we used to insist that a man and a woman could only get married in church as long as they hadn’t been married before, because the Bible says that it’s a sin to get divorced; but then we rewrote the rules to try and persuade more people to marry in church, so we decided the sin about about being divorced was old-fashioned so we quietly forgot about it. I’m sure when the numbers start dwindling again that we’ll change the rules again…”

    Simples :-)

    • Silly Old Bastard

      It’s interesting that you hope gay marriage will in time become just marriage. As someone who has spent a lifetime blending in with society without demanding special considerations, I have to say that I think you are being over optimistic on that.

      • David H

        I think within a generation there won’t be any real distinction save beyond the religious. I think from previous comments you’ve made that you’re a little older than I am; but I grew in the 70s (I was born in 1968) – and we’ve had faster progress and acceptance in the last 5 years than the previous 40 combined. Of course, there’s a long way to go – but it’s developing at a lightening pace.

        • Silly Old Bastard

          I’m left confused by what some call progress. I’m seeing now a separate identity for L & G which is opposed to the earlier wishes for inclusiveness that were around in the 1970s.

          • David H

            I think the desire is still there and we’re getting closer to it. Back in the 1970s we were perceived as either being camp and comedic, or predatory and sinister – there was very rarely any perception of normality. Whereas these days, more often than not no one bats an eyelid when someone comes out.

          • Silly Old Bastard

            I will go to my grave wondering what a persons sexual orientation has to do with it. However, I only mix in what could be best described as ‘polite society’. That must have a bearing as my comments on this site go down very badly. Too many angry hurt people here.

          • David H

            We’re all the sum of our experiences. I don’t often agree with your opinions, but I respect your right to have them. Almost the opposite of you, I grew up in quite a tough working class area, so I just learned to be very hard faced and sarcastic – because it saved me getting beat up a few times. In its own way that’s what influences me as I don’t really want others to have to live like that.

      • ECarpenter

        But marriage between same-sex couples IS regarded as just marriage by a very large number of gay and non-gay people now. It’s an attitude which is not at all unusual; I’m sorry that you live among people who continue to see it as not ordinary.

      • john

        Well you are a silly “OLD” bastard after all, it’s only to be expetced that you wouldn’t blend in very quickly!

  • Stefan

    The US is so hung up on lifestyles.

    How I live my life isn’t necessarily a reflection of my personality, much less strong moral belief. Most of the time it’s a reflection on my resources and opportunities.

    Imagine if we were to forbid teaching about religion in schools because we don’t want to impose that lifestyle on atheists!

    • ECarpenter

      This story is about a preacher in Stratford upon Avon. Apparently the UK is also so hung up on lifestyles . . .

      • David H

        Stefan is kind of right (and PN wrong). The church in question is in Stratford, London (NOT Stratford upon Avon, as it says in the article); and, whilst it is based in the UK, those who run it are American.
        (Not sure if it’s just me, but the bloke who founded it bears something of a resemblance to Mugabe)

        http://www.gbcsl.org/about/history/

    • JonParker

      This is Stratford in the UK

      Personally, I think we should teach about religions, and even creationism, in school, especially in science lessons, this is what scientists say happened, backed up with all the observations, proofs and mathematical formulae then this is what theists say happened backed up with wishful thinking on the part of a few nutters.

    • Stefan

      I actually missed it being in the UK (somehow…), thanks for further info all three of you =)

  • Leonard Woodrow

    Oh dear, another brainwashed pillock who can’t tell his ass from his elbow! These religious nuts are trying to move us backward in time just to suit their belief in a “god” invented more than 2000 years ago by people who didn’t know any better. They should be taken to court for denying their children a proper education.

    • David H

      Careful on those time scales – you know the world is only 6000 years old and anything older than that is a satanic plot. Anything further back will incur a written warning ;-)

      • Leonard Woodrow

        Yes, it’s quite incredible what gullible fools can be led to believe, even in this enlightened age!

      • JonParker

        It’s always struck me as odd that some people even today believe the Ussher chronology, surely 1648 is too late to be taken as biblical dogma and way too early to be taken seriously as scientific fact.

  • Thomas

    Stupid man! Let’s remove all references to oppression in the history of the world – lets do our darnedest to keep our children ignorant of the story of human rights and the long road towards equality – lets expunge all reference to those naughty suffragettes, those troublesome black people who campaigned for civil rights, those unruly factory, mill and mine reformers who battled for decent wages and working conditions. The history of gay rights and marriage is just the same and just as important. To sweep any of these reform movements under the carpet is utterly immoral and our young people will be as outraged at this bigoted minister’s clumsy support of such sinister censorship as any educated and broad minded adult will be.

  • Steven Gregory

    I’m not sure about British law, but LET THE FRAUD HAVE HIS WAY: all schools that receive no government funds — that includes tax exemption or operating under the auspices of a tax-exempt organization — can refuse to teach the “history of gay marriage.” There will be no arguments, but tax-exempt churches found to be associated with such schools will have their exemption revoked immediately.

  • Steven Gregory

    His is the illogical position of claiming to speak for the majority, not because his position has any intrinsic merit. It takes a lot of arrogance to claim to speak for “most people.”

  • Rachel M

    I’d say him speaking to the “community” consists of people from the same social circle. Not really a democratic sample. Probably hugely isolated hence why he’s so bigoted.

  • Dermot Mac Flannchaidh

    What a steaming pile of logical fallacies.

  • GulliverUK

    his congregation had expressed concerns“. Really? I mean, really?!

    Somebody needs to explain to him how this works. People go to church and the Pastor / Priest / whatever tells them what is right and wrong, what to do and not, what God thinks is good and what God thinks is an abomination (selective quotes obviously). They listen. They do not ask questions, not any, they just accept that as God’s authorised messenger the pastor or priest knows what’s what and their views should not be questioned. Pastors don’t listen to their congregations otherwise they wouldn’t be utter hate-mongers. However, polling data does clearly show that most followers (in the UK/US) aren’t a) hateful towards LGBT and b) many are leaving religion because the hate coming from people like this baptist are pushing them out. Millennials aren’t joining churches because they are full of hate – many religious leaders fully acknowledge this.

    Anyway … from what I watched of the marriage debates the Department for Education was to come back with proposals for SRI to include same-sex marriage. This should not be optional – it should be taught in schools, alongside other equality / anti-bullying (i.e. LGBT history, as that works best), and these should be made mandatory to be effective. What is actually wrong with promoting tolerance? This Baptist minister should explain why it’s wrong to teach one of Jesus’s greatest 2 commandments, “love your neighbor as yourself” – which itself is repeated in many other places, including the Old Testament (Leviticus 19:18).

    In the coming months leaders from the main parties will be on here asking us what we think are the main issues for LGBT and promising to think about the next election and what they would be able to offer if we vote for them. I think education advances are now critical, a priority and key to the future – that means mandatory LGBT history to tackle homophobia in schools – for every single school, Christian, Muslim, free, academy, whatever, I don’t care, they should all have to provide mandatory equality programmes which include us. Any leader which doesn’t promise at least that probably won’t get my vote, including Labour. It is because all parties promised and failed to delivery anti-homophobia programmes in schools year after year after year, and Labour also when they were in power.

    This also seems an appropriate place to share a link to a video I came across yesterday, and I thought it was truly amazing, so well put together.
    Abandoning My Faith: A Personal Journey

  • Rob

    Somebody please tell me what the f**k gay marriage is? What next, Straight Marriage? Do we really need to start labeling marriage now And i for one would never want my children to be educated and eventually indoctrinated by a religious school which would cause more harm to the child than anything else!

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