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Tom Daley comes out against Scottish independence

  • Robert W. Pierce

    Glad about that. However, Northern Ireland needs to clean up its act. The situation there should not be tolerated if they wish to remain in the UK, devolved government or not.

  • CHBrighton

    I wonder what young Englishman Tom’s reasons are for signing this letter. Personally, I think it is an internal Scottish issue and that outsiders shouldn’t interfere.

    • David H

      I guess there’s different ways of looking at it. I always think of myself as being “British” rather than “English” and I think it would be terribly sad for Scotland to leave the United Kingdom; so, whilst I understand your point about it being a matter for the Scots – it does impact on the whole Union. I guess Tom also considers himself “British” rather than “English.”

      • CHBrighton

        I do take your point, but at heart the issue is about English dominance of Scotland and the Scottish seeking to determine their own future. If the dominant country influences the ant-independence vote, then there is a danger that a no result may appear compromised.

        • David H

          I think that’s what is at the heart of the pro-independence side (and, I hope someone will correct me if I’m over simplifying); but the pro-union side is exactly that – a vote for being together with England, Wales and Northern Ireland so the display of that unity is only an extension of that.

          I don’t think anyone is going to change the opinions of the ardent pro or anti lobby and I think those who are still undecided are adult enough to make up their own minds without being swayed by their fondness or otherwise of any public figure (let’s face it, Cameron’s pro-union, and I can’t stand him)

    • Harry Underwood

      The point of the letter is to allow people in the rest of the UK who aren’t part of the pertinent electorate to express themselves, not interfere.

      • Barry Scarfe

        I agree. No one should be arrogant enough to TELL the Scots what they may or may not do but we CAN say we care about them and we want to be with them in a family of nations.

    • Robert W. Pierce

      Well, since Salmond believes that an independent Scotland will be using the pound and the rest of us haven’t been consulted, then I think it’s only fair for those of us in the rUK to comment. The three major parties and the Bank of England have already stated that there would be no currency union, an unworkable situation since London would be responsible for setting currency and interest rates and that just can’t happen with an independent Scotland. It will be a foreign country at that point and out of the EU. Salmond still hasn’t declared what SNP’s plan B is in this regard. Who will be its lender of last resort? He needs to come clean with the Scottish people. If he expects London to bail out an independent Scotland in the event of a fiscal crisis as we saw in 2008, then he and the SNP are delusional.

      • Owain Robertson

        If we take a share of the debt after independence we will have to share assets, one of those assets is the pound. If the UK remove our right to use the pound we take none of the debt, do you think Westminster will allow that to happen because I do not. Like NZ and Ireland we can use the pound to begin with but even if we don’ t like Salmond said in the debate the other options are out there to read so go read them instead of pretending they do not exist.

        • Robert W. Pierce

          Then why hasn’t Salmond declared who will be Scotland’s lender of last resort? Darling asked him 3 times what Plan B is but no response was forthcoming.

          • Owain Robertson

            He told people where they could read this information and then followed up by saying but we will have a currency union. Just like what was said before the campaign began, the stance has only changed during campaigning. Put that together with Cameron saying he wont pre-negotiate anything prior to the result, I am confident we will have a currency union to begin with. Oh one of those assets that comes with the debt, the bank of england.

          • Robert W. Pierce

            Telling people to read the information and refusing to answer it directly during a public debate in front of his country is rather revealing. Why not spell it out, loud and clear? Why avoid saying anything?

            So, given there will be currency union as you seem to believe while such a union means London will be controlling it, again, who will be the lender of last resort in the event of a fiscal crisis? Why is that so difficult to answer? If you are so confident of such a currency union as Salmond espouses then surely you must know who that lender will be. It’s a serious issue and deserves a forthright answer. It won’t be London that I can assure you. There needs to be clear and accurate clarification on that. A currency union with rUK means that Scotland would not be truly independent.

          • MarkB

            Anyone who thinks the bank of ENGLAND can in anyway be claimed by Scotland is ludicrous. The Bank of England was created in 1694. The act of Union was in 1707.

        • Barry Scarfe

          Just how many times does this need to be expressed? The Pound Sterling currency union belongs to THE ENTIRE UNITED KINGDOM AS A WHOLE and DOESN’T belong to Scotland, to Wales, to NI, OR to England. So, if you want to separate from us you will have to either join the Euro (in which Angela Merkel will control your destiny) or set-up your own new currency.

          There is a reason why Alex Salmond keeps-on saying he wants to maintain a Sterling currency union and that is because he wants to ‘de risk’ the notion of independence as he knows only a minority of Scots will vote for it if he presented his case for REAL independence with ALL the possible risks attached. He is loathe to do that because he knows he would lose so he is attempting to pull the wool over the eyes of Scots and make independence seem to be a painless process and a ‘seamless transition’

      • Steve Bowers

        Oh dear, a little research required , scotland can use the pound, it does not belong to England, it is British, Scotland can use the pound either as part of a currency union or we can use it “pegged” to the “English” pound, martians could land in your back garden and use the pound if they wanted, it’s a tradable currency. Without a currency union rUK balance of payments ( already the worst in the developed world ) will plummet like a stone to around 10%, yes that’s 10% more money flowing out of rUK than comes in, Scotland on the other hand will run at a surplus, yes that’s more money coming in than goes out. If rUK stops a currency union , it WILL cost rUK business around £600 million every year in transaction charges, do you want to be the politician who takes that wee beauty to the electorate, if Scotland does not get a currency union we do not take any of YOUR debt ( remember the treasury saying it was all theirs back in Feb !) that means your politicians will go to the electorate in 2015 saying ” great news guys , we’ve aranged to have 10% more debt then we need to have so it’s going to take even longer to pay back….AND…. going to the lenders asking for EVEN more to help with that rising debt ( think they’ll still get a good rate, by the way it’s not as good a rate as most other countries get !) I could go one but the EU one is a dead duck, it took Greenland 5 years to get out of EU ( and Scotland is already in so my passport says ) and East Germany 3 months to get in……….. no brainer. we up here in Scotland are willing and happy to be good neighbours, we will help you guys out when possible ( but not in illegal wars like Iraq and Afganistan ) Stop believing your press, they are deliberately attampting to stir up racial hatred between Scotland and England ( by the way, around 40% of English people living in Scotland are voting YES ), have a good day y’all.

        • Robert W. Pierce

          Media stirring up racial hatred? You need to see some of the hateful anti-English rhetoric by the ‘Yes’ supporters on Twitter, truly astounding.

          Sorry, but upon Independence Scotland is automatically out of the EU. Even if it tried to re-apply several years or more from now, Spain has threatened to veto it on account of Catalonian and Basque separatist movements. Membership requires all member states agree. I really don’t give a fig about 40% of English residents voting yes either. Good riddance.

          • David de Croy

            Really? You need to drag yourself away from your Daily Mail and do the research. There will be currency union because without it rUK businesses will have to pay bank charges – remember Englands biggest export market is Scotland; every major financial institution rejects the Osborne and co plan of no currency union as ultimately damaging for rUK – you lose over 10% of your GDP overnight on Independence. Even without oil Scotland can easily afford to stand Independently. As far as the EU is concerned you are so far off the mark it’s embarrassing – the Westminster government is currently angling to have the UK out of the EU; Juncker, EU President, has clearly stated that Scotland is a special case and would not have to wait, as in the case of new states such as Ukraine, an estimated 5/6 years before EU entry – additionally, as part of the UK Scotland is cosignatory to EC and is firmly bedded into the Union. I suggest you research more and blow less hot air! I have yet to hear NO camp tell us the advantages of staying in the Union – we have rising child poverty, food banks and years of being ignored and sidelined by Westminster – there is still no word from Darling and his cronies about their Plan B – why? Well, because they know it’s yet another bluff from a bunch of self serving liars.
            As for Mr Daly and the others – they are welcome to their opinion, National Collective and others can speak for the Arts, Sports and Culture response in Scotland – but you’re all welcome to explain your position to the broader community on where you were when you were needed on bedroom tax; ATOS; Iraq: anti austerity; foodbanks? We vote YES! and you’ll still be welcome to visit Scotland.

          • Barry Scarfe

            And WE WILL put-up frontier controls at the border in order to maintain the integrity of OUR borders seeing as Mr Salmond wants to let the whole world settle in Scotland.

          • Barry Scarfe

            By the way, why do you want to still be in the EU? You won’t be TRUELY independent then, will you? But then, this is far more to do with anti-English hatred than any REAL desire for REAL independence.

          • MarkB

            Oh dear Scotland is not a cosignatory to the EU treaties they where all done in Westminster long before Scotland had any devolved powers.

          • Robert W. Pierce

            I don’t subscribe to the Daily Mail, never have never will. I can assure you, there will be NO currency union, no matter who wins the GE in 2015. Since you’re so keen on knowing what Darling’s Plan B is, why hasn’t anyone responded to my original question re Salmond’s Plan B? Surely, if you’re determined to gain independence you should be able to provide the Scottish people and the rUK with a full detailed plan of what it entails before voting. I asked this question several times yet I’m responded to with a question.

          • Barry Scarfe

            That is true, Robert. Salmond and company don’t understand international law in this matter. They think that should Scotland vote Yes then Scotland will inherit all of the associations ect the United Kingdom has built-up over 300 years but this is not true. The legal situation is that Scotland WILL LEAVE the United Kingdom and become a wholly new and separate state just as what happened the PREVIOUS time the United Kingdom became smaller in 1922 when the 26 counties of what is now the Republic of Ireland left the then United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and became the Irish Free State. Thus, Scotland would start its life as a new state and would have to RE-APPLY for things like UN membership, EU membership ect. The Rest of the United Kingdom would be the successor state.

          • Steve Bowers

            Nice, you’ve just confirmed my posting, I said the media were stirring up hatred and you give me 3 links to media sites ! go have a look at britnatabusebot. Remember, there has already been one guy jailed for threatening Alex Salmond, one more is awaiting trial as is one for threatening Nicola sturgeon, a YES supporter was attacked in Inverness yesterday, another one was attacked in Dundee 2 months ago and one in Edinburgh ( a 78 year old pensioner !) about 6 months ago. Look to yourself if you want to see the vitriol and hatred, I expected better from someone coming through the trauma of “coming out”. Spain will be the first to accept Scotland as a new member, we will control half the North Sea , Norway will control the other half, the Spanish fishing fleet will lay seige to their parliament to force it through and the Spanish people love fish. Good riddance and goodbye to you too sir !

          • Robert W. Pierce

            None of those articles I posted indicated or alluded to stirring up racial hatred in the rUK towards the Scottish, far from it. They’re just stating facts, people who also know a thing or two about economic policy, not just Salmond. As for your conviction that Spain will support Scotland’s access to the EU, delusional.

          • raphjd

            Facts are the YES side’s kryptonite.

          • raphjd

            Umm, I guess you forgot the NO side who’ve been harassed and threatened.

            If you remember, before the summer recess, the YES side illegally published the personal details of several NO side people. When question about it during First Minister’s Questions, fat boy (Salmond) just made up excuses and blamed the NO side.

          • Barry Scarfe

            Robert, I would say it is almost 100% certain the Spanish government will veto an ‘independent’ Scotland’s application. As you say, they are worried about their own separatist movements and will be very reluctant indeed to approve of anything that could encourage them. Belgium’s government might well take the same stance.

          • Stefan

            They may delay it some, but sooner or later Scotland would for sure get in. They’re already very developped, with a by EU standards very high BNI. They’ll pay a LOT more to the union than they take out, so they’ll get in for sure.

            Their legislation will already be completely in line with EU legislation too.

          • Barry Scarfe

            I agree, Robert. Whilst it isn’t true of all of them, there is certainly a large number of Yes campaigners who find it very difficult to conceal their anti-English nature.

  • Sim Morris

    What business is it of Daley’s – he’s not Scottish?
    As for Northern Ireland – well the UK should tell them to sling their hook.
    Having those unionist, religious freaks in charge in NI offers zero benefit to Britain and half the population there don’t consider themselves British to begin with.
    The NI unionists need to be told in clear terms that their religious extremism has made them unsuitable to be British.

    • Sister Mary Clarence

      Surely the breaking up, or hacking off of any bit of, the Union affects all of us who currently live here, doesn’t it not?

      • David H

        Definitely, Sister Mary. Tom’s British and, for now at least, so are the people of Scotland. No wonder those favouring independence are hacked off with the rest of the UK if they believe we have zero interest in them.

        • Robert W. Pierce

          Hear hear!!

      • Robert W. Pierce

        Of course, totally concur. We have a right to have our say since Scotland is still in the UK.

      • Sim Morris

        How is Scottish independence or Northern ireland joining the Republic of Ireland going to effect anyone in England?

        • David H

          The impact is on the Union, as Sister Mary very clearly pointed out.

      • jamestoronto

        A Canuck putting in his humble opinion. And since my ancestry is largely Scottish, I am claiming the leave to do so by blood-line.

        As of to-day, Scotland is a constituent country within the United KIngdom. Any citizen of the UK has a right to express his personal political view regardless of ethnicity or birthplace. The notion that only Scots can express an opinion on this question borders slightly on racism. Tom Daley, as a citizen of the UK, has every right to express an opinion. (He wasn’t demanding the right to vote on it, was he?)

        My country has also had its difficulties dealing with similar independence issues in Québec. While in the past Québecois had many valid and sincere problems with the Canadian federal state much — not all — of that has been addressed through compromise and redefinition of all the provinces roles. The fervour of the 70s, 80s and 90s for Québec independence has mellowed considerably and the likelihood of a vote in favour of independence in the near future seems very slim. To say that I, as an Ontarian or citizen of any other province, should not be allowed to express an opinion on my beloved homeland being severed in half – literally (look at a map) – by Québec separating is ludicrous.

        But, Québec is to-day a full partner in Canada’s growth and contributes incredibly to its cultural mosaic (which is becoming less and less Anglo-dominated). Should the United Kingdom be doing a complete rethinking of its constitutional structure and move away from the unitary state way of thinking to a federal state concept. Would it not be an option for all of the UK to think along the lines of not what Westminster will devolve (i.e. give) to local assemblies but what the individual member countries are willing to concede to the Westminster (federal) authority.

        Just a few musings. Opinions are not intrusions! They are just that — opinions.

        • Robert W. Pierce

          I think there is support in the rUK for more devolved powers for different regions, particularly in the north, but I think that will be as far as we’ll ever get to a federal system. I think it’s doable and don’t believe there would be much resistance to it.

    • Barry Scarfe

      I don’t think we should tell NI to sling its hook. They are a part of the United Kingdom and that should be respected. We SHOULD tell them they are behind the times with regard to LGBT rights and they would be wise to see the science of the subject and to consequently update their opinions.

  • Lee W Dalgleish

    I think it would be a shame if Scotland were to go independent. I like being “together”. I would never deny them the choice to go, if that is what they want but I do think it’s ok for people to have an opinion whether Scottish or not. Especially when we are all British. It will have a knock on effect for everyone, not just those who live in Scotland.

    • Sim Morris

      It will benefit England actually as it means governments cannot push through legislation which only effects England using votes from Scottish MPs.

      • Lee W Dalgleish

        Well there are a myriad of things that need to be looked at and addressed. The financial situation obviously from such a split would be tough to accurately predict. I personally can’t see the free education and perks being maintained. I could be wrong obviously but those perks cost money

      • David H

        Whilst the system has its flaws, it’s not that easy to manipulate. Any bill which passes the House of Commons then goes to the House of Lords, who may send it back for amendment. Only on the third occasion can the Parliament Act be used to push legislation through and if it’s got to that stage, the votes tend to be being cast on partisan lines anyway..

      • Barry Scarfe

        I agree that the Labour Party were irresponsible to push through devolution without consulting the ENTIRE country about it but it can still be rectified without the extreme stance of wholly separate states on this small island which would pose considerable difficulties for US ALL. Basically, let’s not use a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

    • Qwaar

      You can have an opinion, but the opinion is meaningless, as you don’t have a vote. I will be voting yes. I want my country to be able to make it’s own decisions. I’m sick of being ruled by a Government we didn’t elect.

      • Lee W Dalgleish

        Just because one doesn’t have a vote, doesn’t make it meaningless. I think we are all entitled to an opinion on the situation without it being belittled. Besides, many of us didn’t vote in this government either. You think I like being ruled by them? lol

      • Jones

        You can have an opinion, but the opinion is meaningless, as you don’t have a vote.

        What a stupid statement. So as you are not an American citizen and cannot vote there you cannot have an opinion on who you want to be President?

        • Qwaar

          I never said you can’t have an opinion, I just said it doesn’t mean anything tangible because you can’t vote. If you aren’t American, you can scream until you’re blue in the face, but it won’t change anything.

  • Michael

    I think it’s time to just rename “Pink News” as “The Tom Daley Channel”. He does seem to crop up a lot more than you might think resonable. Is the point of this story that a host of LGBT people have called for the UK to stay together? Then that should be the headline. Or do you think your readers are to dim to appreciate the story unless it’s got someone fit in it?? Boo.

    • Gerry

      Tom Daley is a superstar, and the best role model we could possibly hope for. It’s therefore hardly surprising that he gets well deserved coverage.

      That said, his comments were rather unwise.

      • Mijacmad

        Please, superstar. What have you been smoking LOL
        And a role model for who, people who wish to hold sponsorship & career above truth – I’m str8, I’m bisexual oh and now I’m gay. People who have all to lose in life and yet came out regardless and live in the real world are people to be admired not this fool.

        • Gerry

          Were you bullied at school? How many gold and silver medals have you won? Did you even win the egg and spoon race?

          • jaz

            Actually I did win the Egg and Spoon race in 1972, but only by cheating. No one spotted that I used my thumb. I fully expect one day to be publicly stripped of my title.

        • Gerry

          Imagine you’re a bullied gay schoolboy with parents who think that gays are (insert numerous predictable pejoratives) because they mistakenly think no-one in the family could be gay and they don’t know any gays.

          Who else can you name as a role model that would reassure your parents that you didn’t have horns and cloven hoof?

        • Lefil001

          To come out to the world when the majority of it is still homophobic is admirable. Tom was only 19 years old when he came out. How come there are still so few of his generation in all fields of endeavour that are out. I look forward to seeing long list of teenage to 20 year old out athletes, actors, musicians and so on who have the same level of success and recognition.

    • And

      I would hope that the LGBT community are not dragged into statements against or for Scottish independence. For the simple reason that our opinions are as diverse as the rest of the community. Any attempts will be seen as those of an ad hoc group of LGBT people only.

      As for Tom Daley’s frequent appearances I’d rather read about him than some of the obscure US bigots who feature regularly.

      • David H

        That’s exactly why LGBT people should put their opinions forward – to prove that we’re no different to anyone else. We’re not clones or some bland faceless fronted movement – that is how the Christian right are trying to depict us. We are human being. We are adults. We agree on some things and disagree on others.

        • Barry Scarfe

          You’ve made an excellent point. When I have tried to debate LGBT rights with homophobic and biphobic people on ‘Right-wing’ websites they often come out with the rubbish that why should ‘Right-wing’ parties support LGBT rights when “gays, lesbians and bisexuals only vote for left-wing parties anyway”. I say in reply that LGBT people are the same as them apart from having a different sexuality and you will get ‘left-wing’ gays, lesbians and bisexuals and ‘right-wing’ ones too. Not every LGBT person is a Labour or Lib Dem supporter and never have been. I also say the ONLY reason why LGBT people have tended to vote Labour or Lib Dem in the past was because LGBT rights were only really supported by ‘left-wing’ parties so it was natural for LGBT people to gravitate towards supporting them but now the situation is gradually changing so LGBT people can vote for ‘Right-wing’ parties too if they approve of LGBT rights.

    • Lee W Dalgleish

      I was more interested in the topic of Scottish Independence. It’s rather interesting reading about it and what the views are of various people (without those that get into slanging matches). Tom Daley wasn’t even the reason why I clicked. Handsome lad, sure but I don’t read articles just because there is “someone fit” in it. :-)

  • Gerry

    I’m rather surprised and disappointed that Tom has publicly taken sides on this issue. Of course, he is entitled to his opinion and to express it; indeed, I think the rest of the UK should be able to have some sort of input as well because the issue affects more than Scotland.

    However, it does mean that Tom has now become a polarised, politically oriented person. Again, that’s his right, but it does mean that he won’t have so much unconditional support as before. It would have been better to have limited his comments to matters of more direct concern, e.g. diving, sports, gay rights, bullying at school, etc. He does seem to have been badly advised, unless it’s part of a deliberate strategy.

    Could this be a clue that Tom is looking ahead to the career he will follow after his competitive diving career is over? It may be a ‘calling card’ to indicate that he’s not just a handsome face. But nailing his colours to a political mast presents risks as well as opportunities: it may open doors in politics, journalism, punditry (Question Time?) etc, but also close many others where it’s important to be seen as impartial.

    • Lee W Dalgleish

      I don’t understand. He’s allowed to have an opinion and voice it but only on certain things? I don’t really think it’s that big a deal to have an opinion on the matter. He’s not being aggressive or offensive. All he has done is give his opinion. I think it’s a stretch to be mapping out his future just from this. lol

      • Gerry

        The risk is that if you align yourself with a political party or controversial view, you’re starting to limit your appeal and your options. Unlike the issues I mentioned, it’s hard to see why Tom has any special interest here.

        Of course he must be free to express views on anything and everything if that’s his choice, but if he starts supporting (say) UKIP / Palestinians / Israel / capital punishment / legalisation of drugs or whatever, then those with differing views may no longer support him. (I’m exaggerating simply to make the point.)

        It also means that he might not be such an automatic choice for TV shows. They’re often obsessed with proving that the audience and participants are scrupulously balanced. If he’s aligned with Pro This or Anti That, his options may be more limited.

        Basically, all I’m saying is that he’s fully entitled to express any view he likes, but that if he goes ‘off topic’ he needs to do so with his eyes fully open; he won’t necessarily still be seen as The Boy Next Door.

        Coming out was a great decision and a risk well worth taking because it was central to his life and identity. However, I’m not sure that Scottish independence is in the same league !

        • David H

          If we turn that on its head though. What about people like Sally Field, Judge Judy, Bette Midler, James Franco and all those other straight celebs who have publicly stood up and spoken in favour of LGBT equality despite many opposing them.

          I don’t agree with Gary Barlow’s political beliefs when he endorsed Cameron at the last election; but he has every right to express his opinion. Tom is first and foremost a person not a bland characterless media machine with no more personality than a cartoon character.

          • Lee W Dalgleish

            I agree David! Exactly what I would have said

    • David H

      There are 200 “celebs” who put their name to that letter and numerous others who have taken the opposite side.

      I don’t think it’s polarising, simply expressing an opinion. I don’t agree with Sean Connery’s view, but I don’t respect him any less.

      With all respect, I think you’ve made one heck of a huge assumption from what is a simple statement of opinion.

  • DTNorth

    OK Tom.

    That’s it.

    Remove that kilt.

    As a true Scotsman I insist.

    Bugger all to do with politics. Just remove the kilt.

    Oh err matron…

    Hee Hee.

    • Barry Scarfe

      You’re not being entirely accurate there. Scotland HAS voted for the Tories. In the 1955 election, the Tories had a MAJORITY of the Scottish vote – the ONLY party that has ever achieved that.

      I agree that Scotland’s economy was severely damaged by Mrs Thatcher but she destroyed vast swathes of Northern England too.

    • Dazzer

      I don’t know enough about Tom Daley’s family background, but do you know enough about it to say that Daley doesn’t have the traditional right to wear a tartan?

      I’m Welsh and Irish and living in England – but I’ve got Scottish antecedents. I’m unconditionally British. And my family has been so, for more than a thousand years. Also I am an immigrant to these islands because I was born overseas.

      I’ve got as much right to wear a kilt or a clan tartan as anyone in Scotland. I can be just as proud of my Scottish heritage as you can be of yours.

      You don’t get to dictate Scottishness because of your geographical location.

    • raphjd

      Learn your history, without the help of the SNP, it would have been “Maggie who?”.

  • Georg Friedrich

    Glad to see how many intelligent people are in favor of United Kingdom, no mutter gay or straight they are.
    Of course Scotland must rest in union with other parts of Britain in more or less similar way as Bavaria or Hanover still are part of Germany : in my opinion, one federal democratic state with many regional identities is a much better model of the state in the incredible global world of 21 century than small countries, grounded on just one national identity in style of 19 century as Scotland will be, if “Yes” camp wins.

    • Barry Scarfe

      I agree. I personally don’t think we would have got into this deplorable situation if we had PR for national elections like you do in Germany. Whilst there is no such thing as a perfect electoral system, my preference would be for Britain to adopt a hybrid system like you have which combines the advantages of FPTP with a PR top-up list.

  • As others have said, just because Tom is a celebrity doesn’t mean he has no right to an opinion or to express it.

    I happen to agree with him, I think Scotland is in a much better position being a part of the UK, and I do think it would be disappointing it they voted to leave. However, I also understand that they feel they have no voice in national politics.

    I think there is a middle ground here that is not being considered. It’s possible to have both a independence and a unity as part of the UK, we just need to be able to redefined certain things.

    There seems to be this notion that there are only a select number of options, when really all it would take is a little more creativity and trying something new.

    • David H

      Fully agree. I think it’s also worth adding that the UK is a better place for having Scotland as a part of it.

      In terms of the second half, the politicians are to blame for the polarising vote. It never had to be a straight-forward in/out option. If we’re being honest, a huge proportion of the UK north of Watford believes that Westminster is too far removed from the rest of the UK make decisions that are relevant to much of the country (one can only speculate, were parliament to be more centrally located in the UK, for instance Nottingham/Leeds, whether such things as HS2 would even be on the agenda).

      I’m sure the Scottish people will make the decision that is right for them; but I’d like to see us all stay together.

  • temp

    Who cares what these people think. It is for the scots who live there to decide. As an ex I wish them well with their decision and in some ways I hope they take the chance to go under their own steam. Everywhere I go on this planet there are plenty of Scots in very senior positions. Well just maybe they can work, recognition and economic prosperity. Please grab that chance Scotland.

  • Mihangel apYrs

    I would take advice from slebs about politics when I would ask my barber for legal advice

  • Stewart William

    Its nothing to do with anyone but the Scots – their country – their future – their decision.

    • raphjd

      After a YES vote, it will be the rest of the UK’s turn to decide on the “independent” Scotland’s future.

      All the utopian promises made by the SNP for an independent Scotland rely on the rest of the UK approving the extremely generous deals the SNP insist will happen.

      • Barry Scarfe

        Indeed. Salmond’s whole prospectus for ‘independence’ rests upon the assumption that EVERYONE in the rest of these islands AND the whole world will simply roll over and give-up their interests and do what Salmond and the SNP want them to do. In the REAL WORLD, that won’t happen though.

    • genjiken

      The Scots have the right to self determination, a right made lawful by an act of UK Parliament. To flippantly say it has nothing to do with anyone else is quite absurd. The family, personal, political, financial lives of the population of the UK are as intertwined as the members of any 300 year old country.

  • TampaZeke

    I’ll love the Motherland and be proudly Scottish-American no matter which way she decides decides to go.

  • raphjd

    Every complaint Scotland has against the UK can be said for Aberdeen/Aberdeenshire against Scotland. Well, actually we have even more reasons to hate Scotland. We’re treated as a cash cow by Holyrood.

    Just remember, all those utopian welfare state promises the SNP have been making can’t be afforded without raising taxes. One estimate from early last year said VAT would have to rise to 28% to fund the SNP promises. SInce then they’ve made a lot more promises, so imagine how high VAT would have to go to fund the new ones as well.

    Ask the SNP what ‘plan B” is on any topic and they’ll give you the same song and dance, that plan A is exactly what Scotland will get.

    If the YES side was honest, no one except the extremists would even consider voting for independence.

    Electricity prices will skyrocket because Scotland will lose the 94% subsidy from the rest of the UK for renewables; aka wind.

    Scottish universities won’t be able to charge English students full tuition fees like they currently do.

    Scotland will lose the overage per person granted in the Barnett Formula.

    Scotland will no longer be able to interfere in England only issues, the hypocrites.

    • Barry Scarfe

      If the SNP were honest, they would have presented a case for REAL independence (ie none of that ‘independence in Europe’ nonsense. Can a woman be only half-pregnant?) WITH ALL THE IMPLICATIONS and INHERENT RISKS of a principled case but they know only a minority of Scots would vote for it so instead they have presented the present case which is purposefully designed to ‘de risk’ the whole notion of independence and make it seem like it would be a ‘seamless transition’ from the present devolution . The campaign the SNP is running is designed for the 15% of the Scottish electorate who are concerned about the risks and who, at present, don’t think independence is worth these risks.

  • Dale Tarrant

    No reasons are given here for them not supporting Scotland’s independence.

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