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UK: High Court judge favours Mayor and TFL in ruling on ‘ex-gay’ bus advert ban

  • Robert W. Pierce

    “Uncontested scientific evidence?” Do Core Issues have any scientific evidence that sexual orientation is chosen? One thing I do know, religion and religious belief are chosen, a lifestyle if you will, mutable, not something that is natural or that one is born with. No science needed to prove otherwise.

    • John-UK

      Very well put Robert!

    • mattinlasvegas

      as we say in Danish “fen for din egen dør” meaning “sweep your own doorstep” – they could start with proving their religion and their god to be more than superstitious nonsense! The day I take scientific advice from a religious nutcase will be the week with two fridays.

      • Jon (Malaysia)

        …or offer even one little smidgen of evidence. They’ve had well over 2000 years if you just consider Christianity and Islam and not a single piece of evidence. If they discovered the tiniest shred of evidence it would be all over the world like wildfire; quadruple sized headlines etc., but no, not so far. Still waiting.

    • GulliverUK

      All the scientific evidence points towards biological diversity, after all, ignore human beings altogether. 1500 species have been observed in same-sex activity, with 500 of those documented in great detail. Since none of those animals have rich language as we do, and thus cannot construct Gods, rock and roll, believe in afterlife, poetry, laws, science, religion, etc., then their behavior is natural / biologically-based. Scientists can change the sexual orientation of fruit-flies by modifying pheromones (biological), and can breed mice who are gay (biological genetic manipulation). Does it sound like a fruit-fly’s sexual orientation is chosen as a ‘lifestyle choice’ ? :)

  • Fur Beasty

    I wonder how much this cost in legal and court fees? I would have thought real Christians would have had better ways of spending their time and money rather than funding homophobic hatred.

    • John-UK

      Money comes from fanatic evangelicals in the US.

    • Roku

      Theyre certainly not christians & care little for messages such as ‘love thy neighbour’. Core Issues Trust, Christian Concern & the like are hate groups through & through, who’s only goal is to further spread homophobia & hatred. Tfl were correct to pull the adverts & Boris was right to agree. Imagine an ad such as ‘White! Not Black! And Proud! Get over it!’, would that run? No. There’s no difference.

      • David Greensmith

        How about “Not Christian. Ex-Christian and proud of it”? Not sure they’d be in favour of that one.

        • Russ T

          I for one would donate to such a campaign – it would be worth it for all the fuss it would cause!

          Maybe the BHA or NSS could organise something?

        • Roku

          Im an example of an Ex-Christian & I must say it makes me extremely proud :) Didnt even need the expense of therapy, the affliction had left me by the time I discovered the tooth fairy was in fact my Dad.

    • David Greensmith

      Why aren’t they being made to pay costs for the defence as well? The money TFL had to spend on defending this case came from us – the users of London Transport and the British tax payer. We should not have to shoulder the burden for frivolous and politically motivated lawsuits.

      • Guglielmo Marinaro

        I see that the Anglican “Mainstream” website follows its re-posting of “Christian” Concern’s reporting of this gratifying ruling with the message:

        “Please continue to support as there is a huge costs order in this case. To make a donation click here.”

        A fool and his money are soon parted.

  • Mario

    YAAAAAAYYY!!

  • Gruffling

    Why do people think hate speech is synonymous with free speech? Let’s see if these people hold true to their values of expressionism when asked to help fund adverts from the KKK.

    • http://www.pariss.info Pariss

      My thoughts exactly!
      How can anyone object to the banning of an avert that is proclaiming an untruth? i.e . A gay cure

      • Roku

        Yup, apart from being hate speech its also false advertising.

  • lee

    more money wasted, idiots

  • Guglielmo Marinaro

    Excellent news. If Anglican Mainstream and Core Issues Trust want to drive adverts for the “ex-gay” hoax around London, let them buy their own private bus to do it. I don’t know why they think that they should have an automatic right to use the capital’s public transport system to advertise implicitly a bogus and potentially harmful “therapy” for a non-illness.

  • Jones

    Common sense has prevailed!

  • CHBrighton

    For what seems to be a one man band, the Core Issues Trust seems to have a lot of money to spend on its campaigns and court cases. Where does the dish come from? And, for the purpose clarity and transparency, can somebody tell us please what Is the subject of Mike Davidson’s doctorate (I am presuming he has one) and where and how he obtained it? This information could help us understand Mike Davidson’s reasons for the views he puts forward.

    • Truth

      One has to ask… and keep asking… why SOME religious people are totally obsessed with homosexuality and others are not. Could it be that those that are, are very uncomfortable with their own suppressed same-sex sexuality and they simply use the bible’s anti-gay bits as a tool to reinforce their own self-hatred? The bigger the homophobe, the bigger the closet case ….. in my experience.

      • CHBrighton

        Mike Davidson claims to have been ‘same sex attracted’ (a term he and other religious obsessives have invented to infer a treatable condition) and that he has been ‘cured’. He is married with children and arrived in this country, settling in Northern Ireland, several years ago. Why he left South Africa, what he did their and why he came to Britain is not explained, but it does seem that as soon as Davidson arrived here he set up his Core Issues Trust, a religious entity with the express objective of providing counselling to men who wish ‘to leave homosexuality’. Davidson has refined the language of the Core Issues website over time to try to make it sound more reasonable. He now claims to be not ‘anti-gay’ and only concerned about those people who are ‘same sex attracted’ but who no longer wish to follow that ‘lifestyle’. On TV interviews he affects a soft tone of voice and the countenance of a reasonable man who is only seeking to do good. Frankly, though, he’s a menace, teaming up with the likes of the Christian Institute and Christian Concern to attack gay rights, equal marriage and other aspects of gay social advancement.

    • Guglielmo Marinaro

      Mike Davidson’s doctorate is in education, not in any medical or mental health field. He started training as a psychotherapist with the British Psychodrama Association, but was slung out when he made it clear on the radio that he wanted to use his professional status, when he finally obtained it, to give legitimacy to “ex-gay” nonsense.

      As the Chair of the UK Council for Psychotherapy (whose ethics code the BPA follows) said in a BBC Radio Ulster (January 2012) discussion in which Davidson took part:

      “If you want to be a psychotherapist, you have to keep to the consensual standards of practice of our profession. If you don’t want to be a psychotherapist, then it’s fine: I think you can say and do what you like, subject to the law. I do think this needs to be made very clear: if this man wants to belong to what is a long-established and reputable professional organization, he has to keep the rules. It’s as simple as that.”

      • CHBrighton

        At which university did Davidson register for his PhD and when did he obtain his doctorate? What was his background in S. Africa? Was he a teacher or have other posts on Education? He is not at all forthcoming about his life prior to coming to Britain. It is as if he just landed here as a fully-formed homophobe (he denies that, of course). It seems as though he has no other work apart from the Core Issues Trust which he set up as a charity. Do donors to his trust pay him a salary? And where does the Trust get so much money from that it can support Davidson, the organisation, and pay legal costs for the Trusts campaigns, the cost of posters on buses and other publicity and Davidson’s travel expenses around Britain for his speaking and other engagements. The more one looks, the more one realises Davidson and the parts of his Trust that are visible seem to be just the tip of something else.

        • Guglielmo Marinaro

          I’m afraid I don’t know the answers to those questions. I can only suggest that you contact Mike Davidson direct at Core Issues Trust (Email: info@core-issues.org). Not that you can make him give you the information that you want, mind you. That’ll be up to him. To quote St John Vianney, “Oh, get an answer if you can!”

          • CHBrighton

            I have written, and included my full name and personal contact details, to Mike Davidson on two occasions asking about his doctorate but have received no reply. His evasiveness makes me very suspicious of him, the statements he makes about himself, his personal history and professional background, his intentions and what happens behind the scenes at Core Issues Trust.

  • Truth

    This is a significant victory and a triumph for common sense over lunacy.

  • allan

    ‘powerful political forces and personalities’ – if only we had wouldn’t have to fight for our rights every step of the way.

  • Cal

    More Christian money wasted on another failed appeal. Meanwhile, in many parts of the world people die from lack of food, clean water and healthcare.

  • Alexander Kelso Shiels

    Its a wonder the Religious Nutters are still free, surely they should be scientifically researched for they sure seem a queer(pun intended) bunch

  • Guglielmo Marinaro

    Many thanks to CHBrighton for giving interesting and significant information about Mike Davidson’s evasiveness. Obviously my quote from St John Vianney was even more apposite than I had expected. Based on the numerous media interviews which Davidson has given (and assuming that at least some reliance can be placed on his accounts of himself), I gather that he grew up in a psychologically and religiously abusive environment which has prevented him to this day from accepting his homosexual orientation (I cannot use the word “gay” of someone whose attitude to his own sexuality is as negative as his clearly is.) As a result, he forced himself years ago into a heterosexual lifestyle, i.e. marriage to a woman, and he is resolved to continue to honour his commitments as husband and father. To that extent I can, I suppose, sympathize with him: I certainly would not like to be in his situation, and his way of dealing with it is honourable.

    The problem, however, is that he is only too willing to “help” others not to come to terms with their homosexual orientation either, to advise them to fritter away part of their lives on futile attempts to change it, and even to encourage them to land themselves in a similar predicament to his. A kind of “abused abuser” syndrome. His claims about what his so-called “therapy” can do are carefully worded. For example, unlike the now thankfully defunct Exodus International, which used to advertise “Freedom from homosexuality!”, he says that he helps people to “move away from a gay identity” and to “move away from unwanted same-sex attractions”. He should have full freedom of speech to expound his nonsense, pernicious though it is, but there is no reason why Transport for London or anyone else should have to aid and abet him. He is plainly quite unsuitable to advise young gay people, and great care should be taken to ensure that the responsibility for their psychological and moral welfare does not fall into the hands of men like him. He provides an excellent illustration of the case for making it illegal to inflict “ex-gay” hocus-pocus on minors.

  • ktah

    I guess the quick answer to that slogan would be: “Not Homophobic! Ex-Homophobe, Post-Homophobe and Proud. Get Over It”. At least there’s a cure for homophobia. It’s called growing up and not obsessing about the lives and consenting adult relationships of other people who you don’t even know.

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