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Sam Smith: If you want to be equal, don’t make your sexuality an issue

  • http://www.derekwilliams.net Derek Williams

    80 governments of the world “make it an issue” by imprisoning gay people for being in a relationship. In 7 of those, the death penalty is enforced. Even in countries like Georgia and Russia, where same sex sex is not illegal, 80% of the population think it should be and there are laws against being openly gay. You BET I am making it an issue.

    • Robert W. Pierce

      Totally concur. If heteros were denied basic human rights, denied their equality, you can bet they would make an issue of their sexual orientation as the reason for discrimination. I think this young man needs to take a second look at what he just said. It’s not we who make our orientation an issue, its the opposition and at its heart, institutionalised homophobia promulgated from the outset by the Church. I’m sick and tired of bigots and others who differ on this when they claim we’re shoving our sexuality down their throats? Would they have said that when women in the UK, the Emmaline Pankhursts of society were demanding their rights to vote which I might add was NOT supported by the Church just because of their gender?

      • Rovex

        Anyone who thinks that a lot of gay people don’t make their orientation an issue is blind or wilfully ignorant. Plenty do and it tends to be the ones who think they are still fighting the good fight in the 70s and 80s.

        • Mark Y

          Could you give a few examples of some people in the public eye who make their ‘orientation’ an issue?

          • Rovex

            Who said they had to be in the public eye?

          • Mark Y

            No one did, I just wondered if you could give us an example of someone we might all know, so we know the kind of person you’re talking about. Otherwise, your descriptions of these ‘lots of gay people’ mean nothing to anyone.

            If there isn’t anyone in the public eye, could you describe what these gay people are like, as I really have no idea what you’re talking about.

          • Rovex

            People in the public eye don’t really do it because their sexuality isnt the centre of their universe, their job is.

          • Mark Y

            Oh I see, it’s just people you know. And you can’t describe what they do when they make an issue out of their sexuality.

          • Rovex

            Its people I see. Its seeking out attention, causing a scene, being abrasive in situations they know will cause issues. This doesnt help anyone.

          • Mark Y

            I think your comments are more about your personal issues with people you might know, rather than an objective view of reality.

            People seek attention and cause issues all the time, both gay and straight, black and white, but homophobia doesn’t come from seeking attention or causing a scene, or making an issue out of their sexuality. What you’re talking about is something completely separate to homophobia and sexuality, being abrasive is just being a trouble maker, which again has nothing to do with sexuality, but you’re blaming sexual orientation. Which is homophobic.

            btw, there’s nothing wrong with seeking attention or causing a scene and it’s abrasive to suggest people should expect to be abused or not treated equally for doing it.

          • Rovex

            Im not blaming sexual orientation at all, im blaming those who think the abuse they get is directly, and only, about their sexual orientation. Its not, its about them being unpleasant. Most gay people would be ignored if they didnt start by making everything about their sexuality in the first place.

            Of course there will always be homophobia towards us, however we behave, but going looking for it is stupid.

          • Mark Y

            LOL. What a load of rubbish. “most gay people would be ignored if… blah blah blah….” what planet do you live on? Cloud cuckoo land?

          • Rovex

            No I live in the real world where I am able to read people and situations. It pretty obvious to me that you cant and dont.

          • Rick

            What are some of the examples where gay people are asking to be attacked? Giving each other a kiss? Holding hands? Having plucked eyebrows? You failed to explain what kind of situation you have in mind.

            I live in a real world in a sense that I know the straight community are never going to like us. Heterosexual people individually, yes. But as a community with an ethos calculated on reproduction, no. Our very existence devalues most of the ridiculous things they force themselves to do. They hate us for freedoms we allow ourselves, while they remain in a mental and ideological prison. They especially hate our courage. We chose to be proud of ourself in spite all the hatred it attracts to us. Sometimes we even die for it. While they worry.if their buggy looks less expensive than the next one.
            Knowing all that, I am never going to stop fighting homophobia, ever. That is what human condition is.

          • Rovex

            I never once said anyone asks to be attacked, never, ever.

            The rest of your post is total BS, and typical of the very problem I had to work against in convincing others to see our point of view.

          • http://thenakedgeek.shawwebspace.ca/ Barry William Teske

            dude you are the classic gamer.
            in my community you are the definition of a flamer.
            twist, turn, avoid, pretend inability or inhability.
            but no problem keeping the insinuations and pretense going.
            why is that?

          • Rovex

            Because I owe you nothing. Im enjoying seeing these reactions, its how i gauge the real attitudes of people around me. How i see the the uber-leftists, the anti-straight bigots (like rick) and the true allies.

          • http://thenakedgeek.shawwebspace.ca/ Barry William Teske

            Of course you owe me nothing.
            Respect nonetheless is a two way street.
            It demands understanding.
            Gauging attitudes, assigning names or labels and attaching dogmas to such is not where respect lives.
            It however holds hints about self denial when observing others and what it defaults to for you.
            You said…enjoyment?
            Understanding is the loser in that situation.
            Acceptance left the table.
            An easy way out.

          • Rovex

            Do you actually ever speak English, or just in meaningless lefty soundbites?

          • http://thenakedgeek.shawwebspace.ca/ Barry William Teske

            Oh please…
            Here’s one.
            If you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
            Who is the victim now.
            Seems you know some lines.

          • Rovex

            You still havent actually said anything that isnt meaningless woo.

          • http://thenakedgeek.shawwebspace.ca/ Barry William Teske

            I need to stage left.
            Today a very good but old friend is being put into a care facility with Alzheimer’s and I am saying goodbye possibly for the last time.
            I honestly do not know what your act is but if you are gonna vogue in the comment forums with ‘flaming’ gays or whatever label you impose at least get your details ‘straight’.
            Contradictions regarding one’s self identity are the hallmark of a troll.
            Not a good reputation to have.
            Peace.

          • Rovex

            No contradiction here. Is it because of the cat? You realise its the attitude that the cat conveys thats the point right? Stop judging others by your own limited understanding.

          • Rovex

            You dont even know what heat is.

          • Steven Gregory

            And you see “a lot” of gays and lesbians being “abrasive” about their sexuality? Did you ever consider that there are people who are abrasive toward gays and lesbians, and shape situations to be such?

          • Markus J.

            Beautifully said Steven Gregory. The apologetic gay crowd is often the ones who use lame terms like “str8 acting” to shame fem gays or identifiable gays (and trans folks) and they have this battered women syndrome where they feel because a gay person’s sexuality is identifiable, they are somehow “asking for it”.

        • Steven Gregory

          So what constitutes making an issue of orientation? Many people I work with make an issue of their heterosexual orientation: wedding announcements, pictures of boyfriends and girlfriends, talking about where they went this weekend, pictures of babies and children to prove they like to have sex. How do you suggest gays and lesbians talk about their lives without “making an issue?”

          • Rovex

            Are we still talking about this???

            You know full well that I dont mean casual chat, i mean the ‘poor me im gay’ ‘we are SO different’ BS that some professional victims spew out.

          • Steven Gregory

            Am I supposed to make assumptions about what you mean? Your commentary has already moved from “a lot of gays and lesbians” to “some professional victims. You care more about defending your anti-left idiocy than defining your own terms.

            I know full well from reading your comments that you’re a waste of time.

          • Rovex

            Im not anti left, im anti extreme-left.

            I still haven’t changed anything in what i said, a lot of gays and lesbians are professional victims, I even see it among affluent ones that are perfectly safe and never had a homophobic word said to them in their lives. Its pathetic.

            I suspect many on here don’t see it because they are it.

        • Markus J.

          Good for them if they do, it’s due to apologetic gays like you that gay young people are bullied to the extent they take loaded guns and blow their own brains out. Apologetic self hating gays like yourself ARE the devil. Gay activism isn’t going anywhere

          • Rovex

            As someone who actually worked with people making the law and later as a councillor for LBGT charities I can tell you activism of that type rarely does anything at all and sometimes makes it far worse.

            The type of gay you describe arent really helping gay issues at all, for them its not even about sexuality, its about making a scene and being the centre of attention.

            Its not what you want to hear, but its the truth. You believe whatever you like, I don’t need to care.

    • Rovex

      I think he specifically means in the UK.

      • Ryan McShane

        the United Kingdom is not completely free from Homophobia bullying !! there is still lots of it in Northern Ireland and i suppose other parts of the UK !! we still need to fight… its not over and were not were near there yet !!!

        • Rovex

          It never will be as it will never be free from bullying of any type of person. I read his statement as a comment about those who create homophobia by making an issue of homophobia 24/7. There are a lot of gay people who wear their homosexuality like a big neon sign and and seem to relish the attention it gets both positive and negative. I certainly know a few, they help neither themselves or any other gay person, and no I don’t mean ‘the fems’ specifically, since all types of personality can be guilty of it.

          • Mark Y

            Can you give an example of anyone who makes an issue out of homophobia 24/7?

            And can you give an example of someone who wears their homosexuality like a neon sign?

          • Rovex

            Can you explain why you asked the same pointless question 3 times?

          • Mark Y

            I don’t think it’s pointless, I’m trying to understand who these people are. What does someone act like who wears their sexuality like a neon sign?

            You sound quite defensive about the questions. Why?

    • Mark Y

      Totally agree. If we want to be equal, we need to fight for it, which means making an issue out of it. Not making an issue out of it means things just stay the way they are. Not making an issue out of it is precisely what those who want us to disappear want. We live in a global World. The UN have just appointed a homophobic bigot as their president, Uganda have just brought in gay laws, brunei want to stone us – damn right we have to make an issue out of it.

      • Peter Nkosi

        The UN have just appointed a homophobic bigot as their president …

        What is your proof that this Ugandan individual is a homophobic bigot?

        • Mark Y

          Just do a google search you stupid moron. There’s plenty of evidence.

        • Pádráig O’Gáirmléadháigh

          You are aware the new president of the UN is from Uganda, run by American far right evangelicals, and probably the most homophobic country on the entire planet ?

          • Peter Nkosi

            You are aware:

            1. the new president of the UN is from Uganda
            2. run by American far right evangelicals
            3. and probably the most homophobic country on the entire planet

            Answers:

            1. Yes
            2. No, that is your hyperbole
            3. Not true, there are countries which are far more homophobic.

            In keeping with the spirit of debate on Pink News, I will not justify my answers 2 & 3, but refer you to Google.

          • Pádráig O’Gáirmléadháigh

            No that is not hyperbole, it is well known fact and if you were to use the tool you suggest for me you will find reams of confirmation for what I say. Ever Heard of Scot Lively and his ilk? No?, Well he is one of the evangelicals de facto running your country, including your schools and hospitals, provided that is, you adhere to their twisted form of xtianity… I will agree that there are countries who are also homophobic but equally so, not better or worse. Lets see how y’all get on without our corruptly earned charity money, a large portion of which is contributed by working Western Gay men and Women. Y’all seem to have no bother accepting the Pink £/$ when you are proffering the begging bowl. Tell me this. Why is Uganda, probably amongst the most fertile countries on the planet, begging for Aid from “corrupt western countries” ? As for your justification for 2&3, I doubt you can attain the impossible! Next?

          • Peter Nkosi

            Yes, I also wondered about Paddy, so now I know.

            Why would a resident of Belfast pretend to be a US Southerner (Y’all!)?

            Next (user name)! Except that I am through here now, so you can troll alone.

          • Pádráig O’Gáirmléadháigh

            Resident of Belfast …? lol I wouldn’t want to be a US southerner any more than I would want to be an Ugandan….

        • Guest
    • Stephen

      You are taking this completely out of context, he was referring to the UK. Also publicly making an issue of your sexuality in the UK realistically will not do anything for someone in Uganda. The governments in these countries will not change, their culture isn’t going to suddenly embrace liberal western values. It’s a loosing battle.

      • http://www.derekwilliams.net Derek Williams

        To the extent that he, or you are talking in the context of making your sexuality no less remarkable than do heterosexuals, there still remains the assumption everyone is heterosexual unless they declare themselves otherwise. In that sense, I don’t “come out” to people as such, I simply AM out. As is the case for heterosexuals, people merely ‘discover’ I am gay, I rarely directly tell them, other than by sleight-of-hand introduction of initially genderless partner into the conversation when opportunity presents. That is exactly how straight people effortlessly ‘come out’ without even realising it.

        As for your exhortation to give up on the LGBT rights struggle, by all means play dead if you must, but remember the life you enjoy in the UK today wasn’t won by throwing down the handbag; it was fought for at huge human cost through theatre, trial by jury, and personal testimony. Where foreign countries are situated now in regard to state sanctioned persecution of their LGBT minorities closely parallels the UK of 100 years ago. There are around 50,000 gay people still alive in the UK with a criminal record created by their having been prosecuted for consensual same sex activity.

        • Rovex

          Given that even at the highest end of estimations only 10% of the population is gay, its a safe assumption to make..

          I don’t believe this is about giving up a fight, I believe its about fighting correctly.

          • http://www.derekwilliams.net Derek Williams

            It’s a “safe assumption” that there is at least a 1/10 chance someone is gay, not a zero chance. You missed my point, which was that because we are a small minority, we have to remind people we exist. “The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.”

            I agree shouting it from the rooftops is no longer necessary in the UK, but only through coming out and refusing to be treated like second class citizens, even at the real risk to personal safety, familial acceptance and career, have we achieved what we have today and that has necessitated winning over a substantial loyalty from our heterosexual allies.

            Countries that repress homosexuals can pretend, as President Ahmedinejad famously did during his address to a UK university when he said “we don’t have any homosexuals in Iran”, that LGBT discrimination isn’t an issue.

            As for “giving up”, you said in regards to foreign governments, “it’s a losing battle”. Aside from tactical retreats, civil rights gains like those of Martin Luther King and Rosa Parkes haven’t been won by throwing down weapons and stalking off with our noses in the air.

          • Rovex

            I didnt say it was a losing battle.

            I also didnt say that the civil rights activity was a waste of time, however its has passed in the UK now. Marches and aggressive campaigning, which also alienates other gay people is no longer helpful. We need to move away from demanding rights, instead we need to move towards calling out those who make being gay an issue, which is exactly what smith said.

          • http://www.derekwilliams.net Derek Williams

            ” It’s a loosing battle.” [Stephen]

            I misattributed this statement to you without at first realising you had joined the thread I was in with another commenter.

            Anyway, it’s not a “safe assumption” that no-one is gay, which is the outcome of assuming everyone is heterosexual.

            As regards the UK, yes, we have all the rights now, and it’s up to us to demonstrate good citizenship no less exemplary than that of our heterosexual compatriots, so I agree we can just get on with our lives now.

            When it comes to LGBT suffering state sanctioned persecution under foreign governments, their local LGBT groups have begged for help from countries such as ours, where rights are now firmly established. In these countries, they can try strategies that succeeded here, taking into account the special nature of local prejudice and the causes of its entrenchment, particularly religion, widespread poverty and concomitant lack of education.

          • Rovex

            Well as a gay person i still assume everyone is straight because there is AT LEAST a 90% chance im right. I dont really see how that’s unreasonable. If i had to ask the question accounting for every possible answer I would be there all day.

          • http://www.derekwilliams.net Derek Williams

            This is just nitpicking now.

            90% 100% and never has been.

          • Rovex

            Its not nitpicking at all!! We all have to make assumptions all the time, often with a greater than a 1 in 10 chance of being wrong, and lets be honest its not 90% its nearer 95%.

          • http://www.derekwilliams.net Derek Williams

            95%100% either.

          • Rovex

            I think you are being deliberately obtuse now.

          • http://www.derekwilliams.net Derek Williams

            If you assume no-one is gay, I assume you’re a single man?

          • Rovex

            I didnt say I assume no one is gay, I assume the changes are less than 1 in 10 (more like 1 in 20) that they are, unless there is evidence to the contrary, therefore its best to assume the person you are talking to isnt. Its purely in the numbers. I don’t understand why that’s such a difficult concept to grasp. Making the assumption doesn’t necessarily mean I will treat them differently.

            No im not single.

          • http://www.derekwilliams.net Derek Williams

            This is circuitous and time wasting. We’ll have to agree to disagree. I’ll stop posting if you will.

          • Rovex

            I guess if you don’t or won’t understand then i don’t see the point in continuing.

          • http://www.derekwilliams.net Derek Williams

            That’s both presumptuous and paternalistic. By no means do I “not understand” you”, or refuse to.

            You’re not my teacher, nor are you my employer, and you’re not in charge of LGBT rights. You’re merely an argumentative individual who seizes on minutiae to nitpick whilst ignoring the bigger issue that this forum is discussing. For someone criticising annoyng behaviour in others, you’re manifesting quite a bit of that yourself, and no, it’s not annoying because you’re right about stuff and I’m wrong about stuff – and that’s not saying I’m wrong about stuff and you’re right about stuff, given that your previous argumentative style makes it likely you’ll seize on that as admission; it’s merely reflecting back to you my perception of how you see yourself in relation to the differing opinions of others, as always right.

            Anyone with time on their hands can scan back to the origin of this thread and see how you derailed it with irrelevancies.

            I know you’ll want to have the last word, so I am going to let you have it.

          • Rovex

            Thats fine, but at no point have you explained why im wrong, you just (incorrectly) used

          • Peter Nkosi

            Yes, DW is good at that! ☻☻☻

          • tom_beauchamparnold

            You are the one who is obtuse!

          • Rovex

            Nah.Im not the one deflecting in order to derail because the point is already lost.

          • Thomas

            I agree with all your points Derek, but you must recognise that your view of sexual orientation is very much a product of your life experiences and the period you grew up in – things are very different from the 1970s and 80s. Many of the young generation of gay people born in the 90s have had a completely different experience and have an outlook far closer to Sam Smiths. This may seem complacent and unworldly to those of us in our middle years, but its also very refreshing that a lot of the baggage and social attitudes we endured has, in this country (which is what Sam is talking about) dissipated to an extraordinary degree.

          • Stephen

            You cannot compare the civil rights movement in the United States to the LGBT rights struggles in Uganda. The institutions are different, the culture is different and there are several other key variables at play that dictate the course of history.

            You cannot enforce change in a country that does not want it. Hence why I believe we will never have global equality for LGBT people.

            Sad to say it, but I’m a realist.

          • Markus J.

            You’re not a realist in the least. Your an apologetic type who demands to stop LGBT activism because it forces you to confront your own internalized homophobia.

      • Mark Y

        Of course making an issue out of our sexuality in the UK, (and the rest of the Western World) could change Uganda and other LGBT inequalities around the World.

        You’re young, so may not know, but as an example, people making an issue out of race and racism in various countries around the World is one of the reason why apartheid finally fell in South Africa.

        Fighting for equality is never a loosing battle.

      • Pádráig O’Gáirmléadháigh

        However these despotic regimes have no problem accepting corrupt western money handed out by those same liberal western values, when they proffer the begging bowl.

    • Peter Nkosi

      In 7 of those, the death penalty is enforced.

      aBoss Williams,

      I will not argue that a few countries do seem to have the death penalty for some LGBT offences. Could you list the 7 countries where the death penalty is routinely enforced by the authorities?

      Could you give us some idea of the numbers of LGBTs who have suffered a legal death penalty, and when these sentences were carried out ?

      I anticipated your directive to do a google search to answer my own questions and did so. However,I got the very strong impression that death sentences very rarely, if ever, are actually carried out by the authorities for LGBT offences.

      Thank you.

      • http://www.derekwilliams.net Derek Williams

        Your ‘Google search’ should already have provided you the list of these countries, available both by Wikipedia and the United Nations, and that the death penalty is ‘routinely’ carried out in Iran when a same sex relationship is discovered. Be aware that the death penalty is a deterrent, and so prosecutions are avoided by repressing LGBT into masquerading as heterosexual, or worse, violently homophobic.

        Homosexuals are certainly ‘routinely’ imprisoned for same sex relationships, consensual or not, as they once were in Britain. When there is a law that puts you to death or incarcerates you for being left handed, it’s hardly surprising that you would write with your right hand if your life depends on it. That doesn’t make you any less left handed any more than punishment for being gay makes you less gay.

        Your provocative attitude appears to be that having the death penalty on the books, and with it, incarceration for same sex relationships isn’t of concern if it’s not carried out all that often. That tells me where this is likely to go, that you’re going to portray LGBT individuals living in countries with criminal sanction against same sex relationships as just whining complainers who should get on with their lives by marrying the opposite sex so as to avoid attracting attention themselves.

        • Peter Nkosi

          As usual, you do not address the questions asked, but dance around like a maggot on a hotplate.

          First of all, the whole of your last paragraph is your own speculation and is absolutely not what I was getting at … appears to beThat tells me where this is likely to go. It is pointless dealing any further with that nonsense.

          Your ‘Google search’ should already have provided you the list of these countries

          You see! You never answer simple questions. It must be because what you originally wrote was something which you were parroting from the LGBT media, and about which you have no actual details. It would not have taken you long to write out the names of the seven countries, along with a few estimates of the executions for each one, and when the last ones were. That is, if you are as knowledgeable as you try to pretend you are.

          Last word to you.

  • Rovex

    This is clearly a comment made by someone young, who hasn’t seen the worst of the discrimination. However he is also right, be normal (for you), stop being a martyr to something that doesn’t even exist any more.

    If people keep on about anything, good or bad, it gets tiresome and people lose sympathy or worse.

    • no

      Stop being a matryr to something that ‘doesn’t exist any more’? You mean like abuse and discrimination against gay people? That’s weird, because I could have sworn that people still get abused, even in the UK, for being gay! How strange – I must have hallucinated all those news stories and personal experiences…

      • Rovex

        Thats not what I mean. People get discriminated against and abused for any number of reasons all the time, this will never change. People will pick on any difference and use it against you. Stop being a martyr to it and get on with your life, you have legal protection, so if necessary, use it.

        • Pablo

          So women should never complain about sexism or rape? I mean, there’s laws but you’re saying they should shut up? What about ethnic minorities who get racially abused on the street or on a night out, they should just get on with their life.

          • Rovex

            You seem to be misunderstanding. This isnt about that sort of discrimination. He is basically saying dont act like a victim (even before anything has happened) and you wont be a victim.

          • Thomas

            Well said Rovex. Minorities who wallow in victim-hood and often seem to positively enjoy and revel in the idea that the world is against them just because of who they are, do their community no credit whatsoever, and self-harm their own sense of well-being, motivation and self confidence in the process.

          • http://thenakedgeek.shawwebspace.ca/ Barry William Teske

            “Minorities who wallow in victim-hood and often seem to positively enjoy and revel in the idea that the world is against them just because of who they are…”

            Funny that you chose that particular wording…
            Hitler himself referenced the same ideology you just assigned to others so blatantly in Mein Kampf.
            You are not as coy as you pretence.

          • Rovex

            Not everything evil people say is wrong. Context is important as well, as yes I see plenty of gay people who use their homosexuality as a weapon and then wonder why people hate them.

          • http://thenakedgeek.shawwebspace.ca/ Barry William Teske

            “Not everything evil people say is wrong.”

            Context?
            Who you kidding?
            Evil is an intent.
            Not a person.
            By my definition it is an intolerant spirit achieving wrongful harm by doing wrongful harm to others.
            Some know evil for what it as it really is…hate.
            Hate in all the instances that I have witnessed or have been subject to are the precursor to an act of crime more often than not.
            Directed at something outside the perpetuators understanding or acceptance level.
            Hate or evil begins within.
            It has no gender preference I know of.

            Please share your understanding of evil with context…
            I may learn something yet again.

          • Rovex

            All besides the point and you know that so stop deflecting.. Rather than trying to define evil take the point that just because someone is bad it doesn’t mean everything they say or do is wrong. Your Hitler reference was a pathetic attempt to discredit, truly pathetic.

            The point is, if you have forgotten, that to be equal you need to BE equal, not a victim. Too many wallow in the professional victim camp, but no, being equal doesnt mean living for pride marches, it means not needing them. It means not acting all superior, or different, or special and getting on with your life, just like everyone else.

          • http://thenakedgeek.shawwebspace.ca/ Barry William Teske

            in the real world victims are picked out before they know what hit them.
            its called bullying.
            you mentioned you know about bullying yet you miss it’s two focal points.
            ‘hit n run’ and ‘bow for the audience’.
            so many through no fault of self are bullied by the intolerance of fear.
            so which real world is it you live in?

          • Rovex

            Nothing i said contradicts that, however you still seem to be equating being gay with being bullied and vice-versa. Bullies bully for any numbner of reasons, if the person wasn’t gay there would be another reason. Bullying isnt limited to camp or otherwise ‘obviously’ gay men. Bullies do not care if 99% of the population disagrees with their actions or if the person is they chose is open, confident or legally protected.

        • http://thenakedgeek.shawwebspace.ca/ Barry William Teske

          “People get discriminated against and abused for any number of reasons all the time, this will never change.”

          And there in lies your delusion.
          People change all the time.
          It is a fact of life.
          Otherwise if I follow your meaning then anyone…gay or straight better shape up and fall in line.
          Don’t dare show your love for the absurd are watching.

          • Rovex

            If you think thats ‘following my reasoning’ then you dont reason very well..

          • http://thenakedgeek.shawwebspace.ca/ Barry William Teske

            and you are not the master of political diplomacy you pretend to be.

          • Rovex

            Well, with you i have no reason to be.

  • Sir HP

    Sam you’re only able to be open in your line of work because many people who went before you made an issue out of it. Try a little humility, you’re standing on the shoulders of giants and right now you look a little small.

    • Naomi

      Why should he have to make an issue about it? Maybe if we stop making a big issue out of sexuality, it might help in western nations. In the long run, sexuality is pretty irrelevent, who cares who you sleep with, it really shouldn’t be an issue anymore.

      • Pablo

        Irrelevant to whom? Not to straight people, they’re the most vocal trying to deny rights, and sure as hell not to gay kids out their questioning their sexuality. So no, it’s not irrelevant.

        • Rovex

          Not to ‘straight people’.. I didnt realise all straight people hated gays. I must have missed that.. Seems to me like you are the sort of person he is commenting on.

        • Markus J.

          Well said Pablo. Straight people demand we not make sexuality an issue in the same time they have a national debate about our civil rights and go behind a voting booth to strip our civil liberties. I’m a proud gay man who lives my truth and will actively speak up and stand up for injustices LGBT face and I will never apologize for that

      • James Orpin

        He doesn’t have to, no one us asking him to. But why should I not make a big issue of my sexuality, it is an important part of what makes me me. It is not shameful, I am proud to be a gay man. We may have equal rights under the law but we do not have true equality yet, in the same way that women and ethnic minorities don’t either. Keeping quiet/blending in will not achieve this.

        So to anyone who says keep it quiet – a large loud f@&k off

  • Stephen

    This will undoubtedly annoy someone, but I actually agree with him.

    I know several gays who make their sexuality an almost polarising element of their life. They draw attention to the fact they are gay to make themselves different from everyone else when really the majority of people don’t care about their sexuality (think Dafyth Thomas in Little Britain). I like the colour blue, it is no more important than my sexuality

    I am talking about the UK here, and I don’t think anyone, gay straight, bi, somewhere else on the spectrum should stop protesting against injustice of any form. We should also be thankful to those before us who DID suffer injustice in this country and DID draw attention to the fact we are here, but times have changed.

    • Pablo

      Then you’re a victim of internalized homophobia. The colour blue is nothing like sexuality. Prejudice and discrimination still exists in the UK and in the world, and there is still a long way to go, you’re an idiot if you think it is a gay haven just because marriage is legal now. There are kids out there with high mental health issues and suicide rates because of bullying, there is hardly any representation in the media for LGBT people, so I’ll be damned if I let idiots like you spout your stupidity about how we’re all equal now, it’s bullshit and it’s ignorant.

      • Rovex

        Fat kids also have a higher suicide and bullying rate, in fact just about any difference will result in bullying.

        ‘there is hardly any representation in the media for LGBT people’

        Oh really? Some of the highest rated TV shows in UK history have been presented by openly gay people. Homosexuality as a topic is common on TV, radio and literature. Yes, you are the sort of person Smith is talking about. Blind to reality, huge chip on your shoulder.

      • Thomas

        Pablo – never deny anyone their freedom of speech just because they do not agree with your view on the world. Stephen has every right in our democracy to voice his opinion and to abuse him in the way you did is as crass and wrong. You are perfectly entitled to view the world from a glass half empty perspective but there are a great many gay people in this nation and elsewhere who do not share your negativity and enjoy living life to the full, out and proud, and experiencing little or no prejudice and discrimination. I sympathise with you if you have suffered disadvantage based on your sexuality, but that does not give you the right to be abusive to others who have been more fortunate.

      • Stephen

        “Internalised homophobia”? What a ridiculous unfounded accusation. Thank for for the psychological evaluation over the internet. You also called me stupid and an idiot in one paragraph, that makes me immediately discredit your arguments.

        People are bullied for all sorts of reasons, I was bullied at school so you don’t have to tell me that (by the way, I wasn’t bullied for being gay, it was for some other ridiculous reason, kids are cruel – get over it).

        As for representation for LGBT people in the media, do you actually watch TV? There are literally TONS of LGBT people on screen today, on the radio, in magazines.

        I also do not believe we are a gay haven because of marriage, I believe we have passed the point where the vast majority of society actually care about people’s sexuality.

        You are an idealist, you can never fully eradicate anything from this world, and I’m afraid homophobia, racism, etc will always be here.

        • Rovex

          Indeed ‘internalised homophobia’, that old chestnut, they always come out with that one dont they? Yes, because any gay man that isnt a huge flamer and doesnt shout it from the rooftops is really full of self hate. The irony is overpowering..

          • http://thenakedgeek.shawwebspace.ca/ Barry William Teske

            the irony is your ambiguity.
            nevermind the cat avatar.
            contrary to prescribed tradition pride is not a sin.
            so show some for yourself and then you might realize you have more in common with the few (flamers and all).

          • Rovex

            Pride is fine when its about something you achieved, being gay is not something you achieved.

            All these marches do nothing for gay rights and they dont represent even a fraction of all gay people out there.

            The battle for legal status is won now so all which im sure you put down to these marches as much as anything else. History shows that marches rarely do a damn thing, especially in the UK.

          • http://thenakedgeek.shawwebspace.ca/ Barry William Teske

            You give the game away.
            To use propaganda or call the abilities and achievements of personal pride by others than yourself unworkable and how rather it should be?
            As you have portrayed?
            What I am calling attention to in this instance?
            Gets no one anywhere.
            It is not wrong until it exempts those who may not conform.
            The ability to look closer at the history books and all that is involved no matter how outside ones own comfort zone or what one personally knows or holds true?
            Essential.
            Divide, dissuade and attempt to conquer by such is so not what pride is about.
            Selective in its deceit is the name of that calling card.
            To each their own.
            You are quite correct on one point.
            Pride is about something achieved.
            Something gained.
            Something shared.
            Something celebrated.
            Acceptance of self?
            It is the highest achievement there is.
            Being gay with a flame brightly shining AND accepting that it may shine differently in others…its the cats meow.
            Showing it and not faltering?
            Timeless.
            Worthy of a parade.

          • Rovex

            That was a awful lot of text to say absolute nothing but crap.

          • http://thenakedgeek.shawwebspace.ca/ Barry William Teske

            First honest reply from you?
            Accepted.
            BUT.
            If you took time to understand my crap you might realize it is but a difference.
            Not the same experiences as you is all.
            No better no worse.
            Just different.

          • Rovex

            Keep thinking that.

          • http://thenakedgeek.shawwebspace.ca/ Barry William Teske

            I do my best to live it.
            It reminds me of my humanity.
            Shared humanity.

  • Paula Thomas

    Define “making it an issue”, If objecting to being discriminated against is ‘making it an issue” he can eff off

    • Rovex

      Making an issue is usually assuming there will be an issue and going in aggressively from the start. Ive seen this plenty of times and the discrimination that follows isnt because you are gay, its because you are an ass.

  • Ivan

    The reality is that even in places were discrimination is lower (nowhere is in nonexistent), sexuality is still an issue.

    Sam Smith seems like a nice guy, but he is still pretty young.

  • Jock S.Trap

    Problem there is most Gay people don’t. It is, though, that intolerate people that make an issue out of it for us.

    Do we ignore, step back and not defend ourselves? Wouldn’t that be a step back… like about 20 years?!

    • Rovex

      No we get with the times and continue the fight intelligently and appropriately, the way some are still doing it is not helpful..

      • Stephen

        Well said, it’s time to move forward. If we suddenly get a right wing government and rights are threatened, that is the point where we ‘make it an issue’.

      • Mark Y

        Could you give some examples of who the ‘some’ are that are ‘still doing it’?

        • Rovex

          You wouldnt know them if I did, they dont have to be famous, there are non famous people in the world you know.

          • Mark Y

            So there is no one in the public eye you can use as an example?

            Maybe you could be more specific about what this ‘way’ is that ‘some’ are still doing? I really don’t understand what these people are doing that is not helpful.

  • Alexander Kelso Shiels

    It is not us that is making it an issue, its all these Religious Nutters who must have” a whipping boy” so people will not look to closely at their own short falls!

  • Buffalo Gough

    I will stop making it an issue when we are not beaten up for being who we are, when discrimination has truly gone from all walks of life, but I’m sorry Sam, what do you want us to do hide who we are so we stop making the people who dislike us uncomfortable. NO NO NO. They need to accept us for who we are, I’m not going to hide a thing – just to make them comfortable.

    • Rovex

      You have to ask yourself though, are you ‘not hiding’ or are you deliberately flaunting. Deliberately flaunting anything is obnoxious. Im not defending any abuse, but some people do lack a sense of self awareness.

      • Mark Y

        “Deliberately flaunting is obnoxious and attracts those who want to abuse.”

        Ahhhh, I think I get where you’re coming from. You mean like, if girls wear short skirts they are just asking to be raped? Obviously I know you wouldn’t defend the rapist, but if a girl lacks self awareness……. Is that the kind of thing you mean?

        • Rovex

          Its not about ‘asking to be raped’, but in that example its equivalent to wearing next to nothing in a deliberately sexual manor and then getting offended when it draws sexual attention.

          People can do what they like, they just need to understand that there are consequences. Doing things on purpose in order to get a reaction then wondering why they get one.

          Provoking a bad reaction in a deliberate act is not standing up against homophobia. Normalising homosexuality is what really fights homophobia, presenting an extreme and abrasive face does not. Its why i don’t go to ‘Pride’, i don’t see it as a positive step to fight homophobia at all.

          • Mark Y

            Well that’s not what you said in your last comment, but it’s good to see you’re changing your mind slightly, even if you’re trying to wriggle out of what you previously said without admitting it.

            But, you’re still sounding like you think a Woman who purposefully dresses sexually should not be surprised if someone, whose attention she does not want, reacts sexually to her and she should understand the consequences. That’s a fcked up point of view you’ve got there tbh.

            btw, making your sexuality an issue is not provoking a bad reaction in a deliberate act.

          • Rovex

            I haven’t changed anything I said.

            My point is that there are people who seem to set out to cause trouble, to cause a scene. Either they are deliberate stirrers, or they are incredibly naive. Women who go out with only their genitals covered, and often not very well, must expect to get unwanted attention since the image they are given out is one of being sexually available. This is not the same as 2 gay people getting on with their lives together.

            Making your sexuality the centre of everything you say and do is provocative, whether it in the presence of homophobes or not. Its boring, crass and undignified.

            I do not and will not go to ‘Pride’, I see no reason to be proud of a biological function I have no control over, but I also see no reason to ashamed of it either.

          • Mark Y

            Well luckily, we haven’t had to count on people like you to fight for freedom. We’d all still be in the closet.

          • Rovex

            lol i have probably done 100x what you have for freedom, since I worked both to reduce the age of consent and legalise equal marriage. The REAL work was done behind the scenes in political circles, not by marching.

          • Mark Y

            Like I said earlier, you live in cloud cuckoo land.

          • Rovex

            No I live in the real world, not the romanticised fake world.

          • http://thenakedgeek.shawwebspace.ca/ Barry William Teske

            do the people you worked on such issues with know you are now doing a fine job of undoing it too?
            seems rather ‘unreal’.
            disingenuous at best.
            why do i say that?
            1. your “lol” arrogance just outed you.
            2. any person entrusted to such endeavors would be expected to have and would exhibit better discretion around the idea of self aggrandization.
            so please tell us for the public record how real are you?

          • Rovex

            I like people like you, you amuse me. Its just a shame that you think you are helping.

          • Buffalo Gough

            O you poor Bunny, you hate yourself. It’s called internalised homophobia. Now I understand your problem. You have to love who you are, you are gay.

          • Rovex

            Its not internalized homophobia, its externalised dislike for idiots.

            I dont conform to your idea of what a gay person should be (which i can guess), so therefore I must hate myself. Such a tired old cliché, only used by the truly insecure.

  • GulliverUK

    Presentation and passion are personal individual matters. If he doesn’t want to make it an issue because he’s worried about the attention, that’s his right, and it’s not a wrong decision, it’s a personal decision, but for me making it an issue is what moves things forward. Do you think states would be granting equal marriage rights in the US if people didn’t make an issue of it!

  • StealthGaytheist

    We aren’t the ones who make it an issue.

  • johnny33308

    I completely disagree…it is certain heterosexuals that make this a ‘problem’….LGBT people merely wish to lie freely, without violence and discrimination, just like every heterosexual seems to do…..straight people make this a problem, and it has always been THEIR problem, not ours. We are natural human beings just like everyone else, so if we were merely left in Peace, there would be no issue or problem. PERIOD!

    • Rovex

      Straight people find plenty of other ways to discriminate against each other. They dont live in a straight utopia.

      • johnny33308

        agreed, never believed they did, but that is not the issue at hand and has nothing to do with it….imho

  • vee

    Until we have won this fight and have equal rights ALL over the world…we should make being LGB or T an issue. Sam Smith needs to feel more comfortable being an openly gay man with no apologies.

  • TampaZeke

    It’s BEYOND audacious for a man who’s been out for all of a few weeks to lecture gay people about how they should behave in order to achieve equality. We haven’t gotten as far as we have from people thinking only of themselves and keeping their sexuality to themselves.

    • Rovex

      Trouble is gay people havent got equality they way thats believed in popular culture. Price marches etc.. they have done nothing to help whatsoever and now just serve as a rally cry of the remainder of the worst homophobes.

      By the way, he has only been out a ‘few week’ in the sense that the media have only just reported it, he has been out of years. Did I miss the big media coverage of your coming out?

      • musicman

        he released a music video with a specific narrative suggesting such – around the time he released his first album.

  • W Jam

    ignorant little pup needs a history lesson and some deprogramming

  • Robbie A

    Sam Smith hasn’t got a clue what he is talking about! He has only been out the closet for the best of 5 minutes!

  • Daniel

    So in other words, don’t mention it at all and align to someone else’s sense of “normalcy”?
    A word to the wise Sam – no-one has the right to tell another person that they are not normal. I’ll do what I damned well please, and enjoy my life; because hey, I’m not living it for someone else – I’m living it for me.

  • Keith

    The gay “community’ is as equally bigoted as any other group. Just look at the way people treat each other within it.

  • Shan Taylor

    Try tellin that to a transgender.

  • sJames6621

    then why do you makke it an issue, holding hands, kissing your wife, marrying and talking about ti in public. and endless other things

    Conservatives really running out of something usefull to say get nutter and more nutter

    Soon they will bring forth their witch doctor, known in many reliigons as the mythical devil

  • Steven Gregory

    As Sir Ian McKellen points out that simply hearing someone is gay or lesbian causes many peoples’ minds to go directly to the bed and what they imagine happens.

    It’s most often NOT gays and lesbians making an “issue of their sexuality,” but what prejudice leads people to think.

  • CrazyAndClassy

    No big ‘issue’ here.. Just another rich white male trying to speak for all of us, including people of colour and transgendered people.

  • cantake8

    Sam Smith: If you want to be equal, don’t back down or settle for anything less than BEING EQUAL!

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