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Archbishop of Wales: ‘Jesus had nothing to say about same-sex relationships’

  • Brett Gibson

    Jesus didn’t exist so, yeah, he really did have nothing to say about anything, ever.

    • Cal

      Agreed, but many people do believe in Jesus and they are the ones causing us trouble. So wise and perceptive words like this may do a lot of good.

    • John

      How do you know….

      • Yesh U R

        You’re joking yes?

        • John

          Just because we live in the present time with all our modern ideologies and ways ….there is more people with faith on the planet than without….

          • Yesh U R

            Sadly, if you mean that there are still a very great number of poorly educated, often under resourced individuals who are brainwashed into the various religious delusions broadly described as “belief” then I agree with you. There are more people with ‘faith’ but that is changing and thanks to access to education and modern technology that number is rapidly diminishing.

          • John

            Faith will never diminish…for any one who believes in God not explanation is necessary ….for any who does not believe in God no explanation …will surfice….wea re here for a short time enjoy while we can….what ever any one believes….

          • Martin R

            I could not have put it better. It’s the fanatics on both sides we have to be worried about, so let’s live and let’s live.

          • Richard Jones

            Absolutely. I met someone in London last night (I think from Pakistan but I didn’t ask and I don’t know his religion) who said when he saw the cross I was wearing that he believed that people of faith made a nation across the world. I hesitated a moment and asked what about the extremists or fundamentalists of any religion: I didn’t see them as part of the same nation. He agreed. But on reflection, as I write this now, I realise that Jesus wanted to break down the barriers of his time and to tell the authorities that everyone – EVERYONE- regardless of social status was loved by God (you God-haters out there can diss that, but I want to tell the truth I know). Which means we have a lot of hard work to do loving absolutely everyone, just as Jesus commanded, whatever our views about them.

          • Brett Gibson

            Fanatics, seriously? Fanatics because we’ve woken up and realised religion for what it is.

            Not once have I ever said that God doesn’t exist. I don’t know whether a creator exists or not, no one can say for definite but I know one thing that’s absolute cr*ap and that’s religion. This is what the debate is here, not the existence of God.

          • Truth

            I’m with you, John. I KNOW Peter Pan exists because I’ve got a book that says so …. and, when I die, I want to go to Never Never Land. I enjoy living ‘in faith’ with Peter. Some people say I’m potty to believe in fairly stories. But, as you rightly point out, millions of people around the world also live their lives in self-delusion. The difference between me and them is that I don’t try to force my beliefs down people’s throats.

          • kostas.lacon

            Yes ,yes very clever … Peter Pan had the same impact in human history like Jesus did !…
            Pathetic …

          • Martin R

            Sadly you missed the whole point of “Truth’s” post, so you should try not to denigrate his opinion with unnecessary sarcasm – that is “pathetic”!

          • kostas.lacon

            And Peter Pan isn’t a sarcastic devaluation …Lol

      • kostas.lacon

        He didn’t ,just he suppose.

      • Martin R

        He knows because he said he has “researched” the matter. LOL.

    • Neil Rhodes

      Actually, I think Jesus did exist, just not as the mystical and divine figure that the many vocal members of the faithful insist on ramming down our throats (so to speak – har har) at every available opportunity.

      • Brett Gibson

        I suggest you watch the Zeitgeist movie and educate yourself matey. He didn’t exist.

        • Neil Rhodes

          All based upon theories. There are so many conflicting opinions on the subject that no-one actually knows for sure. I personally think that there probably was a guy called Jesus who could probably talk a bloody good talk, was really good at spinning lies, and a whole bunch of people were around taking him way too seriously.

          At the end of the day I really couldn’t give a crap whether he existed or not, but in any case it doesn’t stop all the zealots blathering on, does it?

        • Martin R

          So your beliefs are based on a MOVIE? There is so much trouble in the world with people saying (like you) Jesus didn’t exist, and billions of people who believe he did. Don’t get your knickers in a twist about, though.

          • Brett Gibson

            No it’s not just based on a movie it’s based on common f*cking sense mate. I went out and researched things for myself. It’s very clear to me about the development of religion and the basis for the stories that are found in the bible.

            Anyone who believes anything from that book just really needs to open their mind more. I pity you all.

          • Martin R

            In spite of your obscene language, you might be the one who is actually right and the billions of others are all wrong, “mate”.

          • Brett Gibson

            You mean the billions of under educated and brainwashed people living in impoverished countries believing in a 2000 year old book which calls for stoning people to death, owning slaves and for women to be completely submissive?

            Get your bloody head out your arse mate and take a good look around.

            Also, I might be ‘the one’? I assure you that I am most definitely not the only one who sees religion for the corrupt, controlling institution it actually is.

            Catholics used to think left handed people were the devil for gods’ sake, can’t you see that it’s just a load of bull cr*ap and purely a way of controlling people and getting money. Why on earth do you think the catholic church was established? Why on earth do we see the Vatican flooded in expensive gowns and riches while there are millions dying of diseases in Africa.

            It always has been and always will be about brainwashing and control with religion. Wake up mate, seriously, wake up.

          • Martin R

            You are right, but forgive me for thinking there are some people out there who might wonder about the quality of a researcher who can’t string a simple sentence together without using obscene language. Anyway, where might one access this definitive “research” of yours on a subject which has confounded the best scientific, theological and philosophers’ brains for so long? I’m sure there are many who would love to read it, “mate”.
            One thing is for sure, no one ACTUALLY knows one way or the other, but in the meantime religion, of various faiths, gives an overwhelming number of people comfort and hope in their times of need. But, as someone else commented, let’s not ram our dis/beliefs and opinions down other people’s throats; we are all free to decide on whether or not to believe. Only time will tell who are right -then it’s too late.

    • kostas.lacon

      You don’t know the name of your grandfather’s grandfather but you know that Jesus Christ didn’t exist !!! …Lol

      • Rehan

        Well, I know the name of my grandfather’s grandfather and, entirely coincidentally, I also know that there isn’t even one first-hand contemporary corroboration of the life – let alone actions – of the person known as Jesus of Nazareth. Do correct me if I’m wrong.

        There is no reason why a person whose existence is doubtful could not have an impact on much later human history — look at the Gautama Buddha, a remarkably similar story.

        • kostas.lacon

          There is a fair amount of books about the historical Jesus Christ as a really existent person .
          I will not write one more for Pink news…
          Anyway the atheists prepare the spread and domination of Islam in Europe …at least Mohamed was an existent person…
          { In France about 400 000 french atheists and sceptics became muslims…}

          • Rehan

            There are plenty of books, but not a single first-hand contemporary account.

            I find it hard to believe that atheists would become Muslims (even, or especially, in France), let alone in such numbers.

          • kostas.lacon

            Some well known historians lived in first century A.D. and they mensioned Christ and the Christians : Tacitus , Suetonius, Flavius Josephus , Pliny the Younger .
            For more …google : historical proofs for Jesus .

            Not only atheists but also sceptics and so called “christians” and don’t forget the marriages between french women and muslim men…I think you have same problem in UK.

          • Rehan

            I’m afraid you’re just not paying attention: I quite clearly wrote (twice), first-hand, contemporary. None of the people you mention were those.

            There is no comparison with the contemporary evidence for Alexander the Great or Socrates or Julius Caesar. You really need to be a little bit cleverer with your Googling.

          • kostas.lacon

            I mensioned some historians of the 1st century A.D.
            { Of course for the Christians the New Testament is better than the best history book }.
            If you want to found and see the evident , it’s more than easy.
            Unfortunately I have not a photography of Jesus or his fingerprints.
            Brother I did my best for you with good intention.
            Anyway if you believe or not it’s your right and your problem.
            Peace .

          • Rehan

            But the people you mention were writing after the time of the purported Christ’s death; as you will know, Josephus wasn’t even born within the Christ’s supposed lifetime. Nor can any of the Roman commentators’ observations conclusively be said to refer to Jesus of Nazareth. The attributions of the gospels are also retrospective – there is no incontrovertible evidence that they’re by the apostles themselves.

            As you rightly say, ‘history’ 2000 (or even 400) years ago wasn’t what it is now. The fact that Christianity has spread over much of the world within the last few centuries, largely due to European colonial expansion, can’t in itself be seen to be proof of Jesus’s existence.

            εἰρήνην ἀφίημι ὑμῖν!

          • kostas.lacon

            AΓΑΠΑΤΕ ΑΛΛΗΛOYC

            Enjoy these peacefull byzantine hymns…

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwFYUJb03d0
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKiZiZzI2ns

          • Rehan

            Thank you. I’m more of a Palestrina boy myself, but I’ll listen to these when I get home from work.

  • Adam

    I read a report, probably not the one mentioned from the Welsh Church and I have to admit while I am not religious in the slightest, I found it a breath of fresh air compared to the bigoted nonsense put forth by the CofE and Catholic churches. It showed genuine thought and reason rather than abhorrent rehetoric and doctrine.

    • Truth

      I’m all for ‘acceptance’. But why would ANYONE ‘defer’ to these people? Are they ‘elected’? What popular mandate do they enjoy to even debate what they will and will not accept? Church attendance is at an all-time low, at around 1% of the population. On percentages, anglers and bakers are probably more representative of popular opinion. Disestablishment of church and state is LONG overdue …..

      • Lyn Thomas

        And of course in Wales the Church in Wales is disestablished….

  • Arr U. Gaetü

    Jesus couldn’t have been that great or amazing. Unlike many other people such as popular leaders and philosophers whose names resonate amongst the great changes within human society, Jesus only existed in the writings of people trying to preserve tales that were over 300 year old at the time they wrote it. Even then, his life was told as an addendum onto the ancient Torah. Was this to give him some sort of credibility? Remember, people didn’t live much past 40. 300 years is a lot of generations for tales to remain intact.

    If he had any level of popularity, you’d think there would be at least one crude sketch or a statue somewhere, like a crypt or hanging in Constantine’s bedroom.

    In addition, he was far from the first to have been a savior. At least 16 known saviors had all of these in common with each other…

    – Virgin born
    – A “son of a god”
    – A Savior
    – Performed miracles
    – Communal meal of bread & wine
    – Crucified
    – Resurrected
    – Ascended / Descended
    – Devine judge

    [Ref: philvaz.com/apologetics/JesusEvidenceCrucifiedSaviors.htm ]

    But, the Christians chose the Gay one to be their savior (most likely by a consortium of priests, no doubt). Nice call, men.

    Jesus was a nondescript Rabbi that hung around with the guys, loving a few of them much closer than the other friends, and took a wife to perpetuate his DNA. He was rather normal for a Gay man 2000 years ago (i.e., Jonathan and David), and transformed into a (just another) savior only after 300 years of gossip.

    • Yesh U R

      That’s an interesting exposition but the reality is much more interesting. Jesus is a fiction, and a political fiction that was highly effective for the situation it was created to deal with. The fiction survived the reasons it was created for. The “flesh and blood Jesus” as described in the gospels simply never existed,

  • Robert W. Pierce

    Although I’m not a believer, I do believe someone, if not Jesus existed, but as to his greatness and miracles performed…I find it intriguing that all of the famous classical philosophers and thinkers of the time didn’t even mention him. You would think that would have been the reverse for someone of such notoriety.

  • Helge Vladimir Tiller

    Religious and non-religious persons -millions upon millions- agree. This Jesus, when he lived—followed the social norms and rules at that time. Period.

    • Richard Jones

      No he bloody didn’t. And that’s why they crucified him.

  • Mancs Guy

    Getting back to the topic – Jesus very clearly spoke about divorce, He said nothing about same-sex relationships, yet the church is now largely accepting of those who have divorced & remarried, but still looks down on, if not condemns, loving same-sex relationships

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