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UK: Governor of Islamic school criticises Ofsted for asking: ‘If a child is gay, what would you do?’

  • Sparkyu1

    I think every school, especially religious schools, need to be asked that question. Far too many of our youth face bullying and persecution in schools that is ignored – or aided – by the teachers around them

  • Rehan

    What on earth is ‘inappropriate’ about that question? It’s perfectly valid, indeed admirable.

    • http://www.pariss.info Pariss

      The question has obviously highlighted how the school’s pastoral care is lacking.
      It also shows that conservative Islamists are exerting too much influence on that school.
      Good for OFSTED

    • kostas.lacon

      France 1960 – 5 mosques …
      France 2014 – 2760 mosques !!!
      Every 5 days …yes ,yes every 5 days …France has an other one mosque !
      Adieu l’ Europe…

      • Victor Mattsson

        Yet you have even more churches I guess?

    • Jesus_Mohammed

      The evidence presented by the Islamic masses should be sufficient to wake people up to the dangers of creeping Islam.

      • saintlaw

        Yeah because the majority of people in Western Europe are converting aren’t they?

  • Ukstopgaybully Lgbt Stopgaybul

    Very Valid Question ! Realising the Horrendous Grooming of Young Minds for Islamic fundamentalist Extremism and the Brutally Dangerous Views they have on the LGBT community, this Question Should of been asked and Answered Truthfully !!!

    The UK should Uphold the Laws on Both Equality and Hate crime, Equal Protection for the LGBT community even in the School system No matter what School it is !

    In our Opinion the worse decision ever was to permit Schools to mandate their own rigid ‘faith’ system and therefore imposing their ‘faith’ indoctrination on a young developing mind !

    Schools should teach Not Indoctrinate and breed Intolerance and hate! ;o(

    • Viscount_Adam

      When I was in my pre- and early teens I went to a private Jewish college in Melbourne, Australia. As part of our curriculum as well as the regular state curricula and studies in Judaism, we also had classes which taught us about as many different faiths as possible.

      The objective was: yes, we are Jewish children by ethnicity and we were educated as well in our religious beliefs, (which was never contradictory to the sciences we were taught, either) but it was up to us to decide for ourselves how to apply these in our lives. Many of us were secular and remained so, some were very religious, a lot fell in between.

      But we were taught that to understand ourselves we needed to understand others: so we were taught about others beliefs, which included Islam, Christianity (and its various sects) Bahai, Druze, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism…so that we had a broad understanding of the world we lived in….

      Being gay was illegal at that time and there were students who were caught doing things which couldn’t be ignored. The college had an arrangement, in such cases, to transfer students to other similar colleges (some religious, some not), so that their lives were not disrupted and NO SHAME OR BLAME was ever placed on them.

      These students continued to be our friends at inter-school sports festivals and in private. I think by and large the academic environment then was ahead of the law in handling matters for the benefit of the students well-being.

      And, although I wasn’t aware that I was gay then, I never heard anything said that was negative when this happened: teachers, students and admin staff were all very supportive.

      It’s funny but since decriminalisation and some advances in ‘equality’ there seems MUCH less acceptance today than we had then!

      • LEONHARD RODE

        I don’t know when you attended school. I also attended a church supported special school for disabled children during the 1950’s. The subject of sex was but never addressed as part of our education – and for sure I do not even talk about a gay sexual orientation. Whenever such acts occurred – as they obviously did – it was a “major sin” and we were even threatened to be sent to a child “prison” or “rehabilitation” institution for juvenile criminals. Whether the straight community believes this or not, gay children are gay not by choice and most gays know their gay “emotions” very well, even if they are still not fully understanding their own sexual orientation that early in life. In my view, discrimination against gay boys or girls by parents, schools or other educational institutions is totally unacceptable and should be rejected.

  • lee

    they probably ask the question in the knowledge you preach such hatred toward us

  • Mumbo Jumbo

    Well, what’s the answer?

    • http://twrl.github.com/ Tom Robbins

      Gotta admit, I am curious to know what the answer was.

  • http://twrl.github.com/ Tom Robbins

    My only issue with that question is that, as far as I’m aware, it’s not something they go into in depth as a matter of course. It should really be something they ask everywhere, but certainly in more conservative religious schools where it’s particularly likely to be an issue.

    Whatever Ofsted’s reasoning, it’s nice to see them taking an LGBT concern seriously.

  • Cal

    I agree with all the comments above. It would be a dereliction of duty if they did not ask such a question in that school or any like it. What kind of answers will they get and how will they process them, I wonder.

  • http://www.bloketoys.co.uk/ BlokeToys.co.uk

    It seems like a perfectly reasonable question to ask anyone in a position of authority in education or the care of children, just as it would be fair to ask about the treatment of kids of other racial backgrounds if there was a history of racism in such institutions.

    I’m curious to know what the response was though, it seems that this important piece of the story was (conveniently) overlooked.

    This is a good example of why religious educational establishments needs more oversight and monitoring than any other school. We have kids in this country being educated (brainwashed) by religious fanatics of all denominations, and it needs to stop. There has to be regulation of the basic standards of education or we are bound to encounter more extremism in this country in the future.

    As I keep saying, religion is between the believer and their church, it has no place in the street, in schools or in the workplace. Keep it in your head and in your home.

  • Bluggs

    Inappropriate?? This reminds me of a local school where an ex-student of mine was a senior Teacher. A governor told him “We don’t need to set up a Gay-Straight alliance club because there are no gay students in the school.” Yeah right and all those pupils AND staff who had approached my friend were from somewhere else?

  • Truth

    These are PUBLICLY funded schools. ANY question asked by the Regulator is appropriate in ascertaining if the school is being run correctly. To complain about the nature of the questioning is DEEPLY suspicious ….

    • Psychologist

      Indeed Truth. There are entire documents which give Government guidelines to schools, on exactly how to deal with, and protect LGBT pupils. As a publicly funded school, it MUST follow these guidelines and Ofsted are supposed to ensure those guidelines are in-place, and carried out.
      As you say, the response from the school says more about how defensive the Muslim school are being about it.
      We shouldn’t have ANY religious-based “faith” schools in the first place. The kids are there to be educated, not brainwashed into believing rubbish !

  • ian123

    Straight or gay, what parent in their right mind would want to substitute indoctrination for education? Do they want their children to be held back in the same way that some countries have been held back for centuries?

    • JD

      ALL parents – indoctrination is what parents do to children already – they pollute their innocent minds with concepts of hate and normal V abnormal – all in a pathetic attempt to ‘control’ their minds with outdated superstitions that are by their very nature anti education

      • Dee

        Faith schools are blurring the distinction between what is meant by ‘religious education’. There is a difference between religious ‘instruction’ and a religious education. The latter implies ‘about’ religion rather than ‘in’ religion. Frankly, religion and education are incompatible.

    • http://www.pariss.info Pariss

      “Straight or gay, what parent in their right mind would want to substitute indoctrination for education?”
      The answer is those idiots who buy into the whole religious fairy tales fiction. It is not just Muslims, catholics, protestants, Jews, they all indoctrinate their young with, sometimes, very damaging consequences

  • Sister Mary Clarence

    “‘If a child is gay, what would you do?’”

    Am I the only one wondering what the response was?

    It was probably a multiple choice, it all seems to be these days:

    1 – Castrate him

    2 – Stone him, and then castrate him

    3 – Drag him through the city tied to the back of a cart, stone him, and then castrate him.

    4 – Burn his eyes out, drag him through the city tied to the back of a cart, stone him, and then castrate him.

    5 – Signpost him to the school’s LGBT peer support group, and explain about the headmaster’s open door policy should he have any problems or additional support needs.

    Oooohhhh ….. only kidding …..

    We all know multiple choice questions only ever have four possible choices.

    Seriously, dying to know the answer …..

  • jazatw

    A governing body’s role is to provide the strategic framework for a school so a governor would (and indeed should) not have any knowledge of the sexual orientation of pupils. The role of the GB would be to draw up the policies under which the school operates.
    Schools have equal opportunity policies and it is a perfectly legitimate question for Ofsted to ask the GB about its policies and his knowledge of them — that, after all — is its job.

  • JD

    Well? worshipper of a Pedo – What would you do – take them outside and have them stoned to death?

    • http://www.pariss.info Pariss

      No, you take away their influence.
      At least in schools you should be able to control the indoctrination

  • rapture

    Since faith schools are growing at an alarmist rate and others are been taken by stealth, there’s no surprise , that next generation will be the turning point back to regressive intolerance.

  • GeaVox

    Which goes to show how little these “independent” schools know about UK Laws. It is the DUTY of an OFSTEAD inspector to ensure that the Law is enforced and no personal or religious prejudice sneaks into the curriculum, school procedures or culture. The Head has a Duty of Care of ALL pupils and it is her/his remit to rein-in any cultural bias inherent to the religion that sponsors or constitutes a majority that may ther threaten the welfare of children who do onto “conform”. He doesn’t sound like suitable Head.

    • Jesus_Mohammed

      Oh, I think they know very well what the UK law requires, GeaVox. But they’re so sure that we non-Muslims are all lost and sad “infidels” that they feel they have a duty to IGNORE our laws and regulations.

  • Traveller_23

    You know what, if that question isn’t a regular Ofsted question it should be and it should be extended to include all of the LGBTQ identities. It’s an area where sadly a lot of schools will be under-resourced – not just Islamic or religious ones.

  • David H

    Ofsted’s ultimate responsibility is for the children, so they were well within their rights to ask the question. The
    problem with faith schools, whether they be Catholic, Muslim, CofE or
    Jedi, is that they’re divisive by their existence. 100% non-denominational schools would help society as a whole – not just in
    terms of helping gay kids, but in promoting
    diversity as well. I’d even go so far as to say that getting rid of
    faith schools would be a huge step forward in addressing homophobia,
    islamophobia and racism.

    • kostas.lacon

      Islamophobia is not bad … Islam is’nt a race , a skin colour or a nationality ,it’s a primitive ,sexist ,misogynist and misohomosexual politicoreligious ideology .
      Me as a gay I am afraid of Islam because I know what Islam thinks about us…
      I can’t be so cool {or stupid…} with my killer !

      • Martin R

        Having worked and lived in many Muslim countries, the Muslims are the one who indulge most in gay sex! It’s the religious fanatics one has to worry about.

        • Jesus_Mohammed

          Yes, Muslim men in Muslim countries indulge in gay sex (usually with “dirty filthy infidel foreigners”) AND those same Muslim men believe the tripe that non-Muslims are severely lacking as human beings.

          The general Muslim attitude to non-Muslims is similar to the hatred for pagans (protestants) that used to be inculcated in Ireland by Catholic priests.

        • kostas.lacon

          Are you serious ???…We need freedom to love openly and our human and political rights… not just culpable, secret and punishable sex.

      • David H

        As with all things, attitudes come down to individuals. Like many people, I’ve seen the fanatical muslims on TV who pretty much hate everyone that doesn’t conform to their interpretation of Islam (just as we see and hear on this forum from many Christians).

        My own personal, admittedly limited, experience of muslims is of very kind, everyday people – no different to anyone else in any way other than their religion (which, like our sexuality, is a part of their lives, not the absolute defining factor).

        Personally, I dislike fanatics of all persuasions – but, it’s wrong to tar everyone with the same brush. Bigotry is bigotry, irrespective of who it is aimed at.

        • rapture

          Yes my experience of muslims in diverse areas, was they were very nice to my face also, until I lived in one of London’s muslim ghettos , they were hostile to a dirty kaffir like me when the demographic changed, which makes me believe taqquia was enacted. And their religion is a lifestyle choice so I would disagree with you in that it is like our sexuality.

        • kostas.lacon

          David , the only good muslim { who knows his religion }…is a fanatic muslim .
          There is not a moderate Coran and for the homosexuals the only islamic punishement is death . Read Coran if you want to know the truth about the hatefull, retrograde and totalitarian Islam .
          Islam is NOT just a religion, is a political ideology too .

      • rapture

        It terrifies me ,what’s happening in England and Europe, but people still choose to be ignorant of the impending islamification take over or want to be in the multicultural denial myth to appear right.

  • kostas.lacon

    In 40 – 50 years or sooner Europe will be islamic .Just have a look to the islamic countries…and you have a clear image of our destiny…
    France 1960 – 5 mosques
    France 2014 -2760 mosques !!!
    Every 5 days …yes ,yes every 5 days France has a new mosque !!!
    WAKE UP before it’s too late …not only for the gay rights
    but also for our european culture.

    • Martin R

      Great point – it’s terrifying. I suppose UK is not much different?

      • Jesus_Mohammed

        Yes, the UK is not much different. At the end of my road there’s a mosque but few locals realise it. It’s just a set of rooms above a corner shop. But it’s “a mosque”. It’s where the Muslim men of the locality meet to worship their imagined god. Wherever Muslims settle in the UK they establish “a mosque”. But because these mosques are not detached, because they don’t have minarets, we gullible non-Muslims are not aware of them. And so they spread.

    • saintlaw

      Aint gonna happen. But you keep w*nking yourself in to a frenzy there, kiddo. It’s lol.

  • vol

    If these schools are operating as ultra conservative religious schools now asking how they would treat gays is a very pertinent.question. I’m sure the answer is, What gays? There are no gays in our schools. I’m sure gay students would be treated very badly in this environment.

  • Leonard Woodrow

    The correct answer to the question would be “Ensure that the child was not subjected to discrimination by teachers or students, nor taught that it is wrong to be gay.”

    • Jesus_Mohammed

      And the correct response would also require demonstrable EVIDENCE that the correct answer was being implemented. In other words, “Can you show us paperwork proving the procedures you have undertaken in the past two years with regard to those children who have been identified as gay”.

  • Jesus_Mohammed

    “If a child is gay, what would you do?” is a damned good question to put to the head and teachers of ANY school in the UK, but a particularly important question to put to the head and teachers of schools where the staff suffer from religious delusions.

    It sounds like some heads and teachers have been unable to answer the question satisfactorily.

  • Viscount_Adam

    I think it is a perfectly legitimate question and, in today’s society, quite reasonable. It’s NOT inappropriate! I would wonder how they would treat Jewish students, too, let alone gay Jewish students!

  • The Zizzanax

    Operation Trojan Horse

    Yeah, because it’s really common for conservative Muslims to be reading ancient Greek mythology.

    I’m going to call BS on this one.

  • Guest

    hmm

  • saintlaw

    If true then we’ve the academy shenanigans to blame. However any attempt to impose a universal state education – though welcome and well overdue – would have to tackle the whole idea of private education too.

    I have to laugh at the squeaking on here (and elsewhere on t’internetz) about an immanent Muslamic take over of western Europe tho. This isn’t going to happen for a number of reasons:

    A) Demographics: second and third generation Muslims here tend overwhelmingly to fall in to line with the fertility rates of the wider culture.

    B) Fundy Islam has very little appeal for said wider culture.

    Honestly, the overreach of some of your claims has a lot in common with certain preachers boasting in certain Mosques.

    Not all of us are so gullible.

  • Rob Oakes

    What would I do – Nothing!

  • Daniel

    The move to allow “independent” schools such as this was poorly thought out. All schools should be publicly run, and have no interference from religion or other dogma.

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