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US: Catholic church fires ‘gifted’ gay musician for marrying his partner

  • CHBrighton

    Sacked for being open and honest. Sacked for carrying out a perfectly legal action. That is the right of all adults. Sacked for being a decent human being. Shame on this priest. Shame on this parish. And shame on the Catholic Church that can allow – encourage – this bigotry and hypocracy to take place.

    • joe

      Sacked for going against church teachings he knew very well. Hardly shocking

      • CHBrighton

        Yes it is shocking. Apart from.being hard-hearted and cruel, the priest’s action put a man’s livelihood at risk. Why the musician had been so faithful to such a spiteful institution for so long is a mystery.

        • squishee

          Personal responsibility. He put his own livelihood at risk.

          • CHBrighton

            Of course, a Jesuitical response. The powerful absolve themselves of bullying the innocent. As I say, one wonders why the musician had been so faithful to such a spiteful institution for so long. They didn’t deserve him.

          • Strife

            You Homo-Nazis and your Gaystopo are the power-players and bullies here. You are well funded with plenty of political cover in the legislative and judiciary branches. If this musician cannot abide by Catholic Doctrine in a Catholic institution then he needs to leave. He has no right to force the institution to abide by his lifestyle choice.

            Oh and BTW – you gay-advocates originally claimed that you only wanted civil unions a few short years ago. Then you advanced to gay “marriage”. Then you poo-pooed the claim that you that your actual goal was to assault the religious liberties of traditional Christian institutions – and now look.

            Your track record is clear. You’re a completely dishonest movement of fascist thugs who cowardly and disingenuously hide behind the mantel of “victimhood” in order to bully innocent Christians out of their Constitutional Right of Religious Freedom.

          • CHBrighton

            I obviously hit the nail on the head.

          • Strife

            Typical response from you fascists. After all, when all you yield is a hammer – everything looks like a nail. Thank you for inadvertently proving my point.

            Tell me, when will you cowardly thugs start targeting Muslim or Orthodox Jewish institutions? Ah but you won’t. Why is that?

            BTW – one of the leading founders of your dishonest fascist movement felt embolden enough to finally admit the true motives of your corrupt movement:

            LGBT Activist Masha Gessen Openly Admits – gay ‘marriage’ isn’t about equality, it’s about destroying marriage:

            http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/homosexual-activist-says-gay-marriage-isnt-about-equality-its-about-destroy/

          • Rehan

            So one Australian individual’s comment, made two years ago, speaks for an entire movement, does it?

            Blimey, it must be fun being so stupid. Don’t ever change, any form of intellectual exercise might be a little too much for you.

          • Strife

            Oh I don’t know – it doesn’t seem like you’re having too much fun.

            Here, let me dumb this all down yer ya sparky: These comments, actions, and specific ideological activism aren’t the outlier – they’re the norm. And Gessen carries credibility and overwhelming support in the movement. Not to mention – the legal actions of you fascists speak for themselves. A few short years ago it was a demand for mere civil unions – and all would be well. And then that quickly advanced to a demand to redefine marriage. And it was only supposed to be about the rights of the individuals involved – and that quickly advanced into mandatory indoctrination of children in the public schools. And it was only supposed to be about more freedoms for all involved – and that quickly advanced into a loss of individual freedoms for any business owners who didn’t want to be involved. And adoption agencies as well. And now, through state and federal legislation – the Churches are being forced to comply or else.

            So thank you. Thank you for personally demonstrating for everyone just how formidable your movements combination of dishonesty, ignorance, and blithering stupidity actually can be.

            Well done.

          • Rehan

            “Mandatory indoctrination”, oh, bless – I think you’ve already dumbed things down as far as it can go, pet (and throwing the word ‘fascist’ around always helps put some air in the mix). But, as I thought, you seem to be having a lot of fun with this sort of deranged hysteria. And mind, when it comes to blithering stupidity we’re no match for your special type of, er, “reasoning”.

            Don’t stop – keep enjoying it. It’s amusing, in its own feeble little way, to watch.

          • Strife

            What pray tell, would you and your deranged ilk know of “reasoning”?

            After all – your entire ideological premise is based on the insane notion that the self-evident design of gender and the physical paradigm are entirely subject to ones “feelings”. And that reality is not objective but rather subjective.

            And the fact that you and your ilk are using the fiat of legislative and judicial activism to force your ridiculous neurosis onto and into the lives of every citizen – and doing so while wrapped in the false mantle of “victimhood” while all the while punishing all dissenters – IS in and of itself fascism.

            Tell me, when will you be goosestepping your fabulous way to celebrating gay incestuous relationships?

          • Rehan

            Quite evidently a lot more than you, pet, but your frothing paranoia (your pseudonym is appropriate) is perhaps somewhat hindering your capacity to connect thoughts (or “thoughts”). In what imaginable way does a same-sex couple being able to marry affect you, except in your own absurd “feelings”?

            BTW I love the thought of being wrapped in a false mantel, though a Rococo one might be more suitable for the image you no doubt want to create. Alternatively, you might mean mantle (if, that is, you have a greater grasp of vocabulary than you do of joined-up thinking).

            Thanks for the laughs.

          • Strife

            Oh my – my typo made you feel less insane. That’s nice.

            I already listed several of the effects.

            It’s amusing how you overtly sidestepped the observation that your entire movement is based on the insane notion that self-evident design of gender and the physical paradigm are entirely subject to ones “feelings” – that reality is not objective but rather subjective.

            And I didn’t catch your answer to this obvious little progression:

            When will you be goosestepping your fabulous way to celebrating gay incestuous relationships?

          • Rehan

            Oh yes, as I said, thanks for the laughs. You’re too generous.

            You haven’t actually stipulated in what way equal marriage would affect you, only what gets you hot under the collar. Two persons of the same gender being able to marry each other will not affect you one bit – any more than two persons of different races marrying, which I imagine got you and your ilk seriously upset once (and probably still does).

            I’m so glad you don’t think I covertly sidestepped while goosestepping, you seem to have a paradigm of physical movement (positively balletic, so many steps) festering in your feverish little mind. Sweetie, if you’re only capable of seeing life in simplistic movements, as generalisations or (as no doubt you’d put it) paradigms, don’t be surprised if grown-up don’t bother with such childish nonsense. Do you conform to every “self-evident” issue of “design” (don’t tell me, you don’t believe in evolution)? I take you believe mouths are not for kissing, that hair shouldn’t be cut or shaved, and feet shouldn’t be shod? You seem unaware of what can constitute civilisation. So just you focus on the next world and stop worrying so pointlessly about this one.

          • Strife

            My what a pile of convoluted bilge.

            So in other words – you can’t refute the fact that yes – yes indeed you and your ilk do adopt the insane notion that self-evident design of gender and the physical paradigm are entirely subject to ones “feelings”.

            You do in fact believe that reality is not objective – but rather it is subjective.

            Let me unpack your tripe – kissing is not contrary to our natural design. It is an emotional extension of the natural paradigm of infantile feeding from a bygone period of basic survival; the mother had to pre-chewed the food and transferred it to the mouth of the infant. And shoes merely protect the natural function of the feet. And trimming is actually a hygienic response to a natural process. Not to mention that physical safety can be complimented by the hygienic act of grooming as well. But to validate your insane reasoning – one shouldn’t clean after defecating should they? Well not in your world apparently. And speaking of which:

            What natural physical design of the human body is sodomy complimenting or at least extending?

            And yes, I already listed the legal effects of “marriage- equality” on the personal lives of every citizen. I’m sorry you keep missing that.

            Oh and, race and deviant sexual expression are entirely different. The former is an an immutable natural state. The latter is an active unnatural choice.

            And yes I do believe in evolution. Do you? Because the most fundamental and vital function of every species is – Tah-dah! PROCREATION. And uhm …. sweetie? Same-sex “copulation” is the ultimate Evolutionary Dead-End.

            Thanks for playing, champ. You made me smile in sympathy for your poor state of derangement.

            Oh – BTW, I still didn’t catch your snappy little answer to this obvious little progression of your inane “reasoning”:

            When will you be goosestepping your fabulous way to celebrating gay incestuous relationships?

          • Rehan

            There, there. I’d send you a verbal Imodium for your verbal diarrhoea, but I fear the problem might be too serious to plug.

            A moment’s reflection might indicate to you, amid this torrent of (as you so appropriately say) bilge, that any sidestepping, goosestepping and, for that matter, quick-stepping or even foxtrotting is entirely on your side, as in your hysteria you lose any contact with rational thought whatever. Never mind, pet, witter on. I’m sure you impress yourself, and *pats hand* that’s all that matters.

            But what is this? A repeated reference to gay “incest”? Can it be – surely not – is it really, yet again, our old friend Keith Koprophilos? Haha! The meds are working in that the syntax is conventional (at last), but even the repeated use of the word ‘paradigm’ can’t disguise it!

            NURSE!

          • Strife

            You seem to be well-versed in verbal diarrhea. In fact – you seem unable to resist obfuscation by rhetorical defecation especially when all reasoning has abandoned your petty arguments. But then – why should that come as a surprise? After all, the physical source of your desires is found in the human sewer-hole. How fitting. No? The “highest” expression of your “love” is actually the counter-intuitive physical act of plugging the natural physiological purge of the most vile substance the human body can produce. How about that? The irony of your “reasoning”. You my friend specialize in fecal fornication. Sh*t is the symbolic and physical substance of your perverted desires. What more could the human body do to indicate to you that your sexual urges are blatantly misguided and inherently antithetical to the human *paradigm*? (you’re welcome) Obviously science is not your friend. You’re a disciple of “scientism”. Because in your world – reality is completely subjective and guided by feelings. You’re a neurotic zealot of relativism.

            Thank you. Thank you for demonstrating my point so thoroughly in your inadvertent display of histrionic personality disorder. I almost feel I should pay you for your services. In all the online debates on this topic thus far – I have never had anyone roll-over so easily and surrender their underbelly of ignorance so completely. I’m almost tempted to accommodate you for a visit to my class at university. But undoubtedly my students would accuse me of “staging” such an obvious and pathetic “caricature” of a counter argument.

            *sigh* Such low hanging fruit. (feel free to let your neurosis construct any double entendre from that last morsel to the full extent of your idiosyncratic desires) It will undoubtedly prove noteworthy.

          • Rehan

            Aww, bless. Thanks wee man, the idea that I have entertained you almost as much as you have entertained us is delightful. Glad to help. Sorry to see even Imodium would be of little use for you – but, as I said, so long as you (and, of course, your “class” at “university”) are happy and can believe your own hysterical jibber-jabber, that’s all that matters. Toodles.

          • Strife

            Shine on you crazy diamond.

            “Morality is always dreadfully complicated to a man who has lost all his principles.” – G.K.Chesterton

          • Rehan

            There, there.

            *pats hand*

          • tom_beauchamparnold

            Bravo!!!

          • Strife

            It’s so sad that you have to console yourself.

            *here’s a tissue* Now blow.

      • http://www.bloketoys.co.uk/ BlokeToys.co.uk

        So are you telling me that this church also sacks or bans anyone who gets divorced?

        Do they check the backgrounds of all female members to ensure they have not had an abortion at any time?

        Do they sneak into people’s bedrooms to make sure none of these people is ever using a condom?

        Do they support the right for fathers to sell their daughters?

        Do they attack women who are menstruating?

        Do they attack members who cut the hair on their temples?

        Do they attack people who wear clothing woven from two types of cloth?

        Do they attack people who work on the Sabbath?

        Do they attack people who don’t believe in slavery?

        Once again, extremely selective reading and enforcement of their delusional “rules” is no excuse for hatred, intolerance and bigotry.

        • kane

          if first three of the above statements would advertise their activities publicly then they clearly would be in trouble. bottom six cases do not apply to catholics.
          roman catholic church, unlike other splinter christian denominations, relies mainly on new testament in its teachings and doesnt expect its members to follow old testament. gay celibate people are welcome in catholic church and it is their choice whether they want to be members in that capacity

        • squishee

          “Why do the nation’s rage against the Lord and his anointed?” Sounds like your not ready for that leap of faith yet. Keep praying. The Holy Spirit will bring you around.

    • Proteios

      Firing people for their beliefs may not matter in a company. You are correct that the Mozilla CEO probably shouldnt be fired for supporting marriage as he is living honestly and openly.
      But when you are living contrary to the very nature of the entity you worship in. If he professes faith he does not truly have. Im not sure where you contrive the word “honest” from. Its the opposite. He is living a deception and shouldnt be suprised when called on it. The priest is doing his duty to protect his flock.

  • Thomas

    Good Work the Roman Catholic Church – today you get rid of your gays, who’s next? maybe tomorrow you’ll bar your black worshippers, then go gunning for those in your congregation who are disabled. Carry on showing your true ugly, bigoted and downright evil true colours as you merrily hammer more nails into your coffin and lose even more respect from society. It”s not the incense that smells in your churches its your rotten morals and the deeply unchristian and inhuman hatred that spews forth from your pulpits.

    • Cal

      Oh, they won’t ever discourage the black worshippers. There’d be hardly anyone left!

    • squishee

      ” deeply unchristian and inhuman hatred that spews forth from your pulpits.” And you know this because the last time you attended mass was…?

  • Christopher in Canada

    Those of us living where orientation is included in our rights and freedoms take much for granted.

  • JT

    While this pope came out in support of marriage between a man and a woman, I can’t imagine he would be in support of this heartless decision. Were their actions legal? Yes. This is where religious freedom works for them. But clearly he can see the writing on the wall. Parishioners leaving by the droves with attendance way down. It’ll only get worse. I’m glad people left the church in support of him. Shameful.

    • http://www.bloketoys.co.uk/ BlokeToys.co.uk

      This is the silver lining.

      The more the religious attempt to hold society back and maintain an outdated belief system the more they hemorrhage followers and influence in any community.

      It would be fascinating to look at the books for attendance of any of these churches, I can bet that they have seen a steady decline since the 1950’s, and I’ll bet that this decline has sped up dramatically in the last ten years too.

      Many of these churches are only staying open through renting their space to groups and events, they no longer have the support of the community because they are refusing to reflect the core values and beliefs of society. As the old die, the young are simply NOT replacing them. This means that within one generation most of these outdated cult institutions will be gone.

      In a nut shell, these churches will be closing down all over the USA soon, just as they are in the UK, as numbers collapse and people become more educated about their backward beliefs and their selective hatred of others.

      This is a good thing, eventually the Christian faith will have no more influence than $cientology. It would be great to see all of these churches permanently converted into community halls for the people, where religion has no part beyond those wanting to hold events and meetings there.

      • squishee

        “In a nut shell, these churches will be closing down all over the USA soon, just as they are in the UK, as numbers collapse and people become more educated about their backward beliefs and their selective hatred of others.” You may be very well correct. Jesus didn’t promise His Church that it would always and everywhere be huge, but he did promise that it would last to the end of time and that hell and Satan’s lies would not prevail against it. I think I’d rather be with the narrow-minded and enter by the narrow gate.

  • Matthew Black

    It is against Catholic teachings to have a gay marriage, or to have a sexual relationship with the same sex. If you hold a position in the Church and choose to live outside her teachings then you are removed from your position. He should of found a secular job playing music in the first place.

    • CHBrighton

      Why do the churches accept babies for baptism and then treat them so abominably if they turn out to be gay? And if divorce, for example, goes against the church’s teaching, why aren’t divorcees fired from catholic jobs?

    • Peter Sieber

      Technically and hiding behind the RULES – you are right. BUT
      … If you cannot decide between right and wrong, – you do not need more religion, you need more Empathy.. !! – never forget the catholic church sanctioned the slave trade, burned scientists, and killed and tortured hundred of thousands women as witches ! I am certain THEY followed the rules back then too… ! I am sure you would approve of those rules too..

    • http://www.bloketoys.co.uk/ BlokeToys.co.uk

      The teachings of a church seem extremely selective.

      If all of these religious groups were to actually follow all the instructions of the Bible, women would be considered “property”, the church would be making deals to sell daughters of parishioners, rape victims would be forced to marry their attackers, everyone in those pews would have long hair down to their butts and they would all be wearing nothing but sack cloth.

      So, tell me again that this one specific thing they like to attack and abuse people for is justified, given that everything else of even remote inconvenience to them is conveniently brushed aside.

      The fact is we know the deal, Christianity is about nothing more than control and manipulation of others. The Church controls its members, and the members are given the authority to attack other people and abuse individuals who are different to them.

      Organized religion is nothing more than a power ponzi scheme, where weak minded people get permission to elevate themselves above others through selective translation of a book of instructions that they mostly ignore when it causes them problems.

      It’s no coincidence that the ONLY thing these religious groups want to enforce is homophobia, when there are plenty of other things in that book of bullsh*t they conveniently ignore.

      • Rehan

        A ‘power Ponzi scheme’ – excellent!

        • http://www.bloketoys.co.uk/ BlokeToys.co.uk

          I spent a while trying to work out the psychology of religious belief, the denial of the natural world in favor of a fantasy, and after speaking to a psychologist interested in this as much as I was, he asserted that organized religion is about power over others.

          It immediately made sense to me.

          People are driven there because of their fears and sense of being out of control. As a reward, they are given a feeling of control over their lives, as though there is someone “up there” giving out bonus points for obeying rules. This automatically gives those withing the group a sense of being more “righteous” and more “important” than others in society.

          The priest has a position of power over his flock, and he gives them little nuggets of power here and there, to people desperate for approval and guidance. In turn, they are given a sense of power and authority over others not in the club.

          In reality, it’s kind of like any street gang out there, the big gang leader gets his following to do his bidding, and the members of it find security and the sense of power over others that they so desperately crave.

          Everything fits in my opinion, organized religion is about weak people desperate for control, then hooked on the sense of superiority it gives them over others.

          • Rehan

            I can readily understand religious belief in the context of pre-modern societies, but among people who cheerfully benefit from science and have an awareness of history and are capable of logic, it’s hard not to believe it’s a cynical and narcissistic scam.

      • Matthew Black

        Most of the issues you raise are Old Testament and only pertain to the Jewish faith. Christian’s follow the teachings in the New Testament. There is no decrease in the amount of Catholics, in the United Kingdom where I live we have the most Catholics living here since the reformation.

        • Rehan

          Yes, but only 8.6%, according to the 2009 BSA survey, of the 60m+ population, and a sizable chunk of that would be made up of economic migrants from the Philippines and the Americas.

        • Harry

          The only reason for the increase is (usually low educated) immigrants.

        • ChrisInLA

          Catholics, like other Christians, follow the teachings of the New Testament only when the relevant quotations work in their favour. They treat the Old Testament in exactly the same way. It is reliance on the OT that prevents Christianity from following the teachings of Jesus. And let’s not forget that the writers of the NT were Jews who accepted the OT, as it was the only scripture they had. I don’t think that any one of them would have been so bold as to think their own writings would be treated as “scripture” by people many generations hence.

          When the Catholic Church and other sects start preaching socialism, then I’ll believe they are following Jesus. In fact, were they to follow the example of Peter in Acts, the churches would be preaching communism. Ananias and Capaira were struck dead (presumably by God) for failing to keep their part of one of the very communist bargains of the group headed by Peter. Stalin could not have done more.

    • Rehan

      There is no indication this church, after McMahon’s 30 years there, was unaware of his sexuality – or, presumably, that he had a partner. The issue seems to be his civil marriage, and the church’s reaction is only acceptable if it has a similarly extreme approach to those who’ve had civil divorces or are married to opposite-sex non-Catholic persons.

      • kane

        ‘There is no indication this church, after McMahon’s 30 years there, was unaware of his sexuality’

        roman catholic church welcomes celibate gay people

        • CHBrighton

          But, as I say higher up this discussion, why does the church baptise babies as members if it’s going to throw them out as adults if turn they out to be gay? Why should they be picked on and made to feel ashamed of who they are? Why should they not fall in love with someone of their own sex – which is their intrinsic nature – and, as the law allows, marry? I suggest that the church should only baptise adults into its ranks, thus signing up people who are prepared to put up with the church’s restrictions on their lives.

          • kane

            general expectation, no matter how unrealistic, is that they would stay with church by being celibate

          • CHBrighton

            Oh yes. Destroy their lives and show them whose boss.

        • Rehan

          There’s no indication he was celibate either, though having a partner to marry would suggest otherwise.

          • kane

            im not saying he was celibate, only that the church most likely assumed he was, perhaps (if aware) even extending that assumption to his relationship. after all there are many practising catholic gay couples that remain celibate

          • Rehan

            Then entering into a civil marriage – which could just as easily be celibate but which changes inheritance and property rights – shouldn’t make any difference.

          • kane

            i agree but catholic church doesnt recognise the institution of civil marriage

          • Rehan

            OK, but then why fire someone because of one? It seems muddle-headed to say the least.

          • kane

            because having one violates membership terms. technically, same rules would apply to heterosexual bloke marrying his partner in civil ceremony only.

          • Rehan

            Is that really so? A music director who’s married to, say, a Buddhist or an Anglican would be chucked out of his job? I don’t think that’s the case in some other countries.

          • kane

            in short, anyone not married in roman catholic church would be treated by that church as living in the sin.

          • Harry

            I very much doubt there are many practising gay catholics who are actually celibate. there may be some who say they are….

            Frankly it is unbelievably silly and grossly intellectually dishonest for a non-celibate gay person to remain within the Roman church. if they really buy into the Christian myths there are plenty of gay affirming churches for them to join.

  • Roku

    I find it maddening & hypocritical that there’s such support for Brendan Eich & yet these continual sackings of gay people by ‘christian’ churches, schools & companies seems absolutely fine. Freedom of speech is considered a one way street for the religious & right wing.

    Eich resigned as he’d brought Mozila into disrepute by financially backing a campaign to strip a section of society of rights he himself enjoys. ‘Christians’ are sacking people simply for forming loving, committed relationships. There’s a difference!

  • gutaitas

    Had he been found to be a paedophile he would have been relocated to exercise his job elsewhere, but being found to be gay is simply too much to bear…

  • Silly Old Bastard

    I’m a Christian, and this does strike me as severe. I’m also a professional like him, and my contract of employment states if I bring my profession or the organisation into disrepute, I can be dismissed. It all depends on what he signed. The Catholic Church is no nonsense, so you can imagine what their terms are like. You don’t have to go too far to find a correlation. For example, someone who lies about their orientation and says they are 100% gay to get a job on Pink News. That person is then found to have married someone of the opposite sex. What to do, and remember, deceit was involved.

  • Boanerges

    “open defiance of Church teaching” “open defiance of Church teaching” “open defiance of Church teaching” “open defiance of Church teaching” “open defiance of Church teaching” “open defiance of Church teaching”

  • Jim Fields

    I am not surprised nor should any of us .. we know the history of the catholic church . we know how they feel about us .. I dont know how any open honest member of the gblt community can walk into a catholic church without feeling the negative vibes .. I am happy they got married . I am also happy he was fried . when a door closes another door opens . and it seems the door opened for him to find a position that he can be himself and show the world what a talented gay man who loves his partner can do in the world .. he now has the ability to be a voice not only for his ministry in music but for the gblt community . and to be what I hope he will see as a voice for human rights . the catholic church as centuries of crimes against us . and to think they will change over nite is to believe the wizard of oz had the powers to get Dorothy home … I doubt as I am 67 years old I will see the catholic church open its doors with acceptance and love .. ….

  • chrisinva

    This happened in my diocese, and we pray for Mr. McMahon (I’m a longtime musician myself and have been fired a time or two.).

    We also praise Arlington Virginia Bishop Loverde and his priests for supporting Church teaching, which welcomes all sinners (why else be a Catholic? the Church is for sinners), but does not and should not celebrate obdurate, persistent, and public scandal.

    Mr. McMahon is free to continue his career wherever he wants, and we wish him well – but we do not wish him to continue to jeopardize his eternal soul.

    Most of all, however, we wish for and pray for his salvation. In that regard, It sounds like the church where he currently works applauds his same-sex partnership. That is morally dangerous ground: life is short – and eternity is long.

    I am a greater sinner than Mr. McMahon by far, which accounts for my gratitude for the Church’s teaching: it is my only was to eternal life. It would be ludicrous for me to announce my intention to live in sin, to celebrate it, and to defy the Church’s fundamental moral teaching — and then demand that the Church hire me in a position of public leadership.

    Give me the quiet back pew where I can say, “Lord, forgive me my sins.”

    Blessings of Eastertide to one and all.

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