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Trans woman sues for $2.5m after athletics event tells her to compete ‘as a man’

  • Mark Frost

    As much as society legislates against it, there are indeed differences between men and women. Witness that no woman has come close to the times set by male athletics runners or marathon runners, or the distances set by jumpers/throwers. Ignoring the tiny percentage of genetic mutants, set the rules as xy chromosomes compete as men and xx chromosomes compete as women. Simple

    • DZ

      Then what about people with XXY chromosomes? Or XX male syndrome? XY women with AIS? There’s more out there than just the XX females and the XY males categories, I just named a few.

      Oh, and the main reason to the gender difference you’re refering to in your comment is testosterone. The trans woman in the article does not have the testosterone level of a man, and haven’t for years. In other words, that advantage the testosterone gave her is long gone by now.

      • Pádráig O’Gáirmléadháigh

        If you cover the breasts and head of ms Johnston, the body is clearly that of a man and has the same muscle structure, build and posture that he had as a man. To say otherwise is ton be obstinately disingenuous!!.

        • DZ

          Have you ever seen female bodybuilders? Some of them have bodies that look more like a man’s body than Chloie Jonnson’s body does. By the way, have you ever seen her before she transitioned? Just wondering, since you claim that her body is just like before transitioning if you look away from the head and breasts.

          • Adrienne D’Agostino

            It’s pretty clear that this guy thinks all women look like the soft and curvy hourglass. Hah.

          • DZ

            Can’t be many women he’s seen then.

      • Silly Old Bastard

        Freaks of nature will never be truly excepted.

        • DZ

          What do you mean?

          • Silly Old Bastard

            3 out of 4 people in the world are ignorant and don’t care. That’s what you are up against.

          • DZ

            If they’re ignorant and don’t care, why do so many of them insist on using the wrong pronouns, throw other people that they think don’t fit out of bathrooms, lockerrooms and other gender separated spaces? That doesn’t sound like not caring.

    • xrk9854

      Typical ignorant transphobia. Then explain to me why after thorough study the International Olympic Committe voted to allow transsexual athletes a DECADE ago.

      http://edition.cnn.com/2004/SPORT/05/17/olympics.transsexual/

      Also explain to me why after 60 years of transsexual people transitioning why transsexual women aren’t dominating sports. They aren’t because said advantage doesn’t exist! Can you name even ONE transsexual woman that won a championship of some kind? Probably can’t can you?
      After being on estrogen more than 2 years and after sex reassignment surgery a transsexual woman has NO physical advantage over other women. The athlete in this story transitioned about 8 years ago. She long ago lost whatever advantage she had. And basically any transsexual women can vouch for this change. Although if you won’t belive the IOC, you probably won’t believe them either.
      I am a post-op transsexual woman. During sex reassignment surgery they remove the testes. Do you know what that means? That means my body produces virtually no testosterone. What do you think happens to muscles over a period of years with no testosterone to power them? They waste away. Fact is other women have much more testosterone than I do. Another consequence of having very little testosterone is my blood is less capable of carry oxygen. Meaning I don’t have the stamina I used to have either.
      By the way the IOC stopped genetic testing 15 years ago as they found it too unreliable. Why? For starters they are MILLIONS of people who aren’t XX or XY.
      Sex and gender are NOT “simple”, they are much more complicated than you realize.

      • Pádráig O’Gáirmléadháigh

        There is nothing ignorant or transphobic about the fact that no matter how much reassignment surgery or hormone injections a man has in order to make himself LOOK like a woman, the brutal reality is he is still a man at his core. Were he to be dug up in a hundred years, his DNA will confirm that the earthly remains in his grave is in fact a man and nothing will or can ever change that….Those facts alone should bar any trans man or woman from competing as their assignment. It is clearly unfair to what trans quaintly call “cis” competitors Falsely calling names to those who speak plainly on this subject does not nor ever will advance the cause of Trans people…..

        • DZ

          I highly doubt that DNA test a hundred years from now will do much difference for Jonnson’s ability to compete, since she have been dead for a while and then dug up. You need to look at more than just DNA here. If DNA overruled everything, then hormones would have no effect what so ever on a body. But hormones does effect the body.

          In other words, don’t treat biological sex as if it is the simplest thing in the world.

          • Pádráig O’Gáirmléadháigh

            All I was saying in relation to DNA is that the DNA in the body is not changed by hormones and as such a man, although he may be surgically altered to look like a woman is in reality, still a man……!!

          • DZ

            As far as I know hormones does not change ones DNA. However, hormones does change ones BODY! Do you have any idea what difference hormones make?

        • Adrienne D’Agostino

          What the hell does “a man at his core” mean? You’re talking a lot of vague rhetoric without any actual facts to back up your assertion that chromosomes somehow are THE deciding factor in athletic prowess.

          • Pádráig O’Gáirmléadháigh

            Unfortunately if you don’t know, there is no point in explaining it to you……

          • Adrienne D’Agostino

            That is the response of someone who doesn’t actually know what they’re talking about.

            Trans women can compete in the Olympics as women (because they are women). Point me to all the golds they’ve won.

      • Silly Old Bastard

        We’re trying to make sense of what you say here, with difficulty. How is the man in street going to cope.

      • Mark Frost

        Yes, but you have to look at it the other way round; As far as I can remember, none of the transexual atheletes were very good competitors as men so you cant expect them to be good as women. Name a world class male athelete that now competes as a woman. The only way you can say that transexual men have no advantage as women is if you scientifically studied their individual performance as men before the op and see what happens to their performance in the womens ranks post-op. A male marathon runner who finishes 40 minutes behind the winner still isnt going to be a good female marathon runner as women winners are, generally, about 20 minutes behind the men. However, he will move from a -40 time and a finish in the hundreds to a -20 time and a finish in the tens. To have gained no advantage as a post-op, he’d have to finish 60 minutes after the men; no matter what operation and hormones he’s had, that’s a big drop in performance

  • xrk9854

    This case is a slam dunk, she’s going to win. She going to win because California has the strongest anti-discrimination laws in the USA and she far exceeds the Olympic standard for transsexual athletes to compete. The standards for transsexual women are:
    On continuous hormone replacement therapy
    Be two years post-op from sex reassignment surgery
    Be legally recognized as female in their home country
    The women in question is 8 years post-op. For more see my reply to Mark Frost.

  • Mark Y

    Interesting because it suggest and highlights that Women are not equal to Men in terms of physical strength or stamina. Which seems obvious, but so much is emphasised about equality, in the army for example, but when it comes down to it, Women are not physically equal to Men.

    I’ve no idea why she thinks she deserves $2.5 million for not being able to enter a weightlifting competition, imagine if those recent employees in the UK sued New Look for $2.5 million because they couldn’t get some new clothes for their boyfreinds – American suing culture is crazy – but good luck to her if she can get it. xy xx xxy yx yyx, $$$$$. its all very confusing.

    • xrk9854

      You’ve missed the entire point. She’s fully transitioned and that means her body is on par with other women. That’s what years of estrogen therapy and sex reassignment do. She is physically the same as all other women now. The morons running the contest want her to compete as a man, which makes no sense at all unless you’re a ignorant bigot.

  • Silly Old Bastard

    Judgement of Solomon needed here. It is this. She must compete with similar
    bodies that contain the XY cell, otherwise she’s going to run away with all the
    cups. Natural born women just can’t produce the same muscle bulk.

    • DZ

      What about a person with XXY chromosomes or some other combination?

      • Silly Old Bastard

        You mean 1 in 500,000 conditions ? Hard luck, you’re out too.

        • DZ

          XXY is 1 in 1000 births, and that’s just one sex variation. Other variations have other frequencies, but most of them lies between 1 in 66 to 1 in 150 000 depending on which variation you look at. So there’s a lot more intersex people than you may think. Shouldn’t they be allowed to compete in athletics?

    • bob

      Blood hormone levels, not chromosomes control muscle mass.
      Dumb ass.

  • Cathyshade

    the comments here by very obvious trolls and bigots seem to prove that bigotry is caused mainly by not an inability to learn, but an unwillingness to learn

    • Silly Old Bastard

      Disagree. This is a public forum.

      • DZ

        Yes, this is a public forum. In other words trolls and bigots as well as other types of people got access to it. So how can you disagree?

    • DZ

      I agree with you there.

  • Mark Frost

    I’m not an “ist” in any way; I don’t give a monkeys how people chose to live their lives or what they want to call themselves. But I do belive in science and, if you are xy you are classed as male. Forget about the XXY and other genetic mutations; that’s like saying no one should fly a plane on the grounds that some people are born blind – you don’t cater for the tiny minority. The first DNA conviction of Colin Pitchwork was due to blanket testing of all men in the area because DNA evidence revealed the murderer was male. Today, such a trawl would miss all the transexuals now registered as women, despite their DNA being male. Its anti-intellectual and equality gone mad

    • DZ

      Forget about intersex? That’s not easy, you see there’s these things called birth certificates, passports and other ID’s with a required gender field. What do you suggest, that people toss coins to decide which gender to put on ID’s?

      And I see your point ’bout the DNA evidence, it’s just that it ain’t that easy. People with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome will have XY chromosomes but look like females because their bodies doesn’t react to male hormones. They create the same problem you describe as trans women do.

      • Mark Frost

        Yes but people with chromosome abnormalities are eventually put in one category or another, based on medical evaluation or hormone therapy. That’s a specific medical problem. There are caucasians and negroes who have characteristics of the other race:- melanism, albinoism, activated repressive genes, etc but if I, as a white man, have ink injected under my skin to look like a black man am I then a negro or still a caucasian but with a massive body tattoo? The answer is obvious and it’s obvious too that a standard xy chromosome man will always be a man no matter what he does surgically or medically to his body. Downs syndrome is also a chromosome abnormalty. Two of its main characteristics are a low mental IQ and slanted eyes. If a find a dim-witted chinaman can I then register him as disabled with Down’s Syndrome? If I was Dr. Evil, I can medically and surgically create a lot of characteristics of Downs Syndrome in a patient but no matter what I do his genes wont have an extra copy of chromosome 21 and he wont be Downs Syndrome

        • DZ

          When you meet new people, do you ask them about their sex chromosomes, what kind of genitals they have or what gonads they have? Because how can you be so absolutely sure about another person’s gender if those are the deciding factors?
          In everyday life people don’t go after those things when subconsciously deciding wether they should say “he” or “she” about a new person, they mostly go after what we call secondary sex characteristics. Those characteristics comes with puberty and are caused by hormones, some of them are permanent while others are not. So no matter how much you say that a standard XY chromosomes man will always be a man no matter what he does surgically or medically to the body, it will not matter if that person pass as female in everyday life. It is hormones, not chromosomes, that makes the visible differences.

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