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Russian embassy says anti-gay attacks are no more severe than the UK’s ‘abuse’ of ginger people

  • Madgeographer

    I would rather say a lot of abuse in the UK get Polish people and Central Europeans in general, especially from the daily mail. Nobody (extremely few people) talk about that. Racism towards Poles is widespread and totally incomprehensible, based on the common history and Poles fighting for Britain, despite Britain’s (as well as France’s) betrayal (inaction towards Germany, except for just declaring the war) in the first days of the War

    • Truth

      I am really sorry if you, as I presume you are, from Eastern Europe and have suffered abuse and discrimination. Sometimes, I am deeply ashamed of the hypocrisy and contradictions in British society. We send out such mixed messages – about things like the merits of democracy while tolerating an unelected House of Lords. We NEED the skills and labour of overseas workers, many of whom are willing to jobs our young people simply refuse to do. So, please do not think ALL British people read The Daily Fail and vote UKIP. I, for one, am proud NOT to be among them.

      • James

        “many of whom are willing to jobs our young people simply refuse to do”

        Fighting racism with ageism, I see.

        A lot of the rhetoric about immigrants either taking jobs away from locals or filling the jobs locals don’t want to do is kind of nonsensical – immigrants aren’t just workers, they are consumers too, and their presence probably creates about as many jobs as they fill.

        • Madgeographer

          Well, to be honest, know an British carpenter who had Polish competition. He became an English teacher and earns 1.5 times more than he did before. Immigrants steal jobs or give it? Also, more people, means more demand on goods and services (imagine a town of 10,000 people and another one of 15,000, similar ones – obviously the bigger will offer more jobs). Jobs can’t be stolen.

          And it is a good point. It seems that the “white old boys” have their version of reality, seeing all young people as lazy. I know many Brits who work their fingers to the bone. It is humbling and comments like the one you cited just make me furious

      • Madgeographer

        Well, Central Europe :). Eastern Europe is the European part of Russia. That makes already 40% of all Europe’s landmass, often Ukraine and Belarus is added to that, making 50% of Europe’s landmass, and actually a part of Ukraine is geographically west to European midpoint, so technically it is western Europe. Anyway, there is nothing more offensive to Central Europeans than being relegated to Eastern Europe :) And the Daily Mail is using the expression so often that it really hurts.

        Comforting words. I know not all Brits are like that, however sometimes it’s just hard to believe it. Nevertheless, your comment made me smile. That was such a beautiful thing (no pun intended) :) Thank you :)

        Now, a totally unrelated question. Amongst the Poles coming to Britain there are quite a number of gays :D Including me. To be honest, I have an impression that I have so much more in common with fellow gay people, even from far-flung places, than with people from my county in Poland, Poland in general or Central Europe. I always can chat easily and I really feel confident. I wonder if others who feel the same way.

    • Rehan

      Racist abuse is deplorable and I too am sorry you’ve encountered it. But do you think, if you wanted to protest about it, the British police would stand by while you were beaten up for protesting?

      • Madgeographer

        No worries. Certainly it is not your fault. Poles are not treated in Britain like a part of population in the Republic of South Africa two generations ago…

        Regarding protests… Well, Poles are in no position to protest in Britain. In Poland, yes (like protests against ACTA), but not in Britain, because that would cause even nastier responses from the British media, owned predominantly by one person (Rupert Murdoch). That also affects Britain’s freedom of press (Britain being ranked 33rd in the Freedom of Press Index, behind Poland – ranked 19th)

        Also, protesting against racism is in a way accepting it, or acknowledging it and a fate of a second-class person, rather than deliberately ignoring it.

        I do agree that Poles should protest more about the lies and daily defamation in the Daily Mail. Up until now, only letters of protest have been sent, asking for an objective image. Perhaps going to court and solving it on case to case basis would be also a civilised manner of doing it, while more efficient.

        What do you think?

        • Rehan

          I think a discussion of the official denial of homophobic violence in Russia is perhaps not the place to question whether or not Poles should protest against verbal abuse in the UK. My point was merely that you would be able to protest here if you wanted to – it seems quite a different issue in Russia today.

          • Madgeographer

            It’s always a good time to discuss things, this is a discussion page, and as we all know, the issue of discriminating Poles is not touched by the British media so consequently there is not a single public space to discuss this, so sorry if I disagree but given circumstances – every place is good for it, really.

        • speedgeek

          What good is the Equality Act if people do not use it? A few people threatening the Mail with it may, in these post-Leveson days have a positive effect……

          • Madgeographer

            Well, this is a very good point. This is why the Levion enquiry came up. The Press Complaint Comission was profoundly corrupt, so the Daily Mail editor was the chief of the comission… This is one of the reasons why Freedom of Press in Britain is much lower than press freedom in Poland. It seems politics in the UK deeply afects press (namely Theresa May ordering to arrest Guardian journalist and his partner)

  • Yesh U R

    Russia is a kleptocracy ruled by state sanctioned murder and brutality, and if you were wondering how extensive alcoholism and mental illness is in that collective of thieves and murderers has gone you now know thanks to Russian diplomatic spokespersons.

  • dtnorth

    Difference is that we do not beat up, kill, ostracise and or rape people with Ginger hair.

    F/ckwits…

    • Doctor

      However there are those well known laws in the UK preventing people from saying anything positive or neutral about being ginger… OH WAIT…

  • si

    “If the authors of the documentary really had evidence of rampant gay hate crimes in Russia, they wouldn’t need to wait until an international sporting event takes place in Russia to raise the alarm. While violent attacks on homosexuals sometimes take place in Russia, just like in many other European countries, this does not mean that they are condoned, supported or, let alone, encouraged by the Government.

    OK so an international sporting event spotlights Russia to the worlds media and any negative press that is not controlled by the state causes them embarrassment. This means they can’t sweep it under the carpet like they would have done ordinarily.

    Of course the government is condoning the attacks. Do they not see the interviews withe politicians and for example Stephen Fry or the mayor of Sochi and the BBC? The channel four programme “Hunted” showed a homophone up in court with the case being adjourned again and more than likely to exceed the statute of limitations thereby dismissing the case. Is that justice? Would anyone feel safe in that situation?

  • rumbelow

    “While violent attacks on homosexuals sometimes take place in Russia, just like in many other European countries, this does not mean that they are condoned, supported or, let alone, encouraged by the Government.”

    Meanwhile Putin warns visiting gay people to “just leave the kids alone” thereby smearing all gays with the paedophile lie and encouraging further hatred and violence.
    The Putin regime is extremely devious and this disingenuous pose and denial that homophobia in Russia is at dangerous levels is becoming very wearisome the longer it continues.

  • D.McCabe

    I don’t ever recall any vigilante groups purposely seeking out red head and viciously beating them?

    What a load of nonsense coming out from the Russian Embassy

  • Robin Palmer

    What complete and utter b0110cks…. since when have you ever seen a ginger person hunted down and publically beaten up or thrown in jail, just for being ginger?
    The ignorance of the Russian’s knows no bounds.

  • Truth

    I believe Hitler’s regime made similar denials when challenged over its treatment of the Jews. If you create a ‘scapegoat’ culture to distract from corruption and failings, people get hurt. Civilized countries have realized how despicable it is to target and marginalise people simply for being who they are. But then again, Russia has always been a nation of backwards bullies …..

    • Eduard

      And that is exactly what the Nazis were doing. Even after the infamous Kristallnacht´in 1938 the German officials were claiming (and assuring international Jewish organisations) that it was an isolated incident and that they had nothing against Jews.

      • Truth

        I’m pleased you agree, Eduard. I’ve been saying this for months on here and have been accused of being hysterical and scaremongering. History DOES repeat … unless people (a) learn lessons and (b) react. The civilized world ignores Putin and his dictatorship at its peril. Little men with too much power who feel emasculated and isolated, are VERY dangerous.

    • Paul

      This is the kind of comment that we can do without. I presume that you consider the US to be a “civilized country”, yet their ridiculous gun laws lead to children being executed in their classrooms. Some US politicians and regions are disgustingly homophobic. Of course, Russian homophobia should be condemned, but stupid, xenophobic comments about Nazis and a nation of backward bullies is not going to win any hearts or minds.

      • Truth

        Hey Paul. You shouldn’t ‘presume’ anything. I regularly rebuke the USA on here for being schizophrenic over its acceptance of violence in so-called ‘family’ movies whilst going hysterical when a nipple is shown or, God forbid, two men kissing. But at least America is moving in the right direction in its acceptance of gay marriage, whilst places like Russia are going backwards. Would you consider that ‘civilised’?

  • Robert W. Pierce

    Preposterous! Russia in a state of denial and humiliated because it can’t accept the truth. The whole civilised world is watching you!

    • http://hunteratrandom.blogspot.com/ rmthunter

      They’re not in a state of denial — the embassy, or its spokesman, is just lying like a trooper. It’s like Putin saying there’s no discrimination against gays in Russia, sitting there like butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth as he tells whopper after whopper.

      • rumbelow

        I agree, the Russian diplomat’s disingenuous pose is a deliberate and devious ploy.
        It is a lie that anti-gay hate and violence are not being encouraged by Putin’s regime and the new anti-gay laws, it is a lie that anti-gay hate and violence is not at dangerous levels in Russia today.
        It is a lie that the law has not gagged gay people from defending themselves while the Government and the Russian Orthodox church continue to conflate homosexuality and paedophilia in order to smear gay people thereby actively encouraging anti-gay prejudice, hatred and violence.

  • Read Fagburn.com

    Here’s a story from today’s Mail about a gang of thugs in Manchester who’ve just been imprisoned as they beat up and hospitalised a man just because he has ginger hair.

    Perhaps this is what he was referring to?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2557429/Schoolboy-gang-locked-savage-attack-man-GINGER-confessed-teachers.html

    • Rehan

      You can find mindless thugs in any country in the world, the difference lies in the degree to which the state condones, or even colludes with, their thuggery.

      • Carl

        If you see the lenient convictions they’ve got you could think our state does not think this is a serious offence.

        • Rehan

          I can’t really comment on the length of their sentences, though I note that they’re teenagers and they all came forward and confessed, which may have been seen as mitigating factors.

          It’s also worth noting that passers-by chased off the gang of attackers, something which doesn’t seem to be the case with the incidents we’ve heard of in Russia.

      • Cal

        Exactly. The point of the story is not that there are some hooligans in Russia (they exist in every society) but that the Russian government is vindicating and encouraging their behaviour. The police are often in collusion with the thugs.

  • Mark

    As far as I know, there’s no law in the UK prohibiting ‘ginger propaganda’ (including the idea that being red-headed is a perfectly normal variant of human hair-colouring) to anyone under the age of 18, with the threat of imprisonment to anyone violating it……Saying that, I do find ‘ginger jokes’ less than funny and people show insufficient sensitivity to their potential impact, particularly on kids….

  • Mike Dalgarno

    As a kid I was a ginger (now reddish brown/bald). My 3 nephews are all gingers. The most I or my nephews have experienced is a bit of name calling; possible hit once or twice.

    I have never experienced or heard of a ginger being entrapped by a group of people, tortured, abused or even killed for being a ginger.

    I have also never heard of the UK, banning propaganda against pro-gingerism. Catherine Tate would be in prison. Attitude magazine would be banned/website blocked for having Greg Rutherford on the front cover.

    But please…carry on Russia. Come out with your idiotic comments because apart from making your argument any stronger, it makes you look more of an idiot!

    • Eugene

      You are not helping Russia’s bigoted cause by saying these things and you are making me look like a wally for appealing to the British public to leave red heads in peace.

      • Mike Dalgarno

        Eh? Totally lost me with that one.

        I’m not going to lie and say that ginger people have not had issues because of the colour of their hair. That would be just as much of a delusional comment that the Russia are saying about this whole argument in the first place.

        It happens, but no where to the extent that Russia are comparing us to.

        Also, I am glad I am not helping Russia’s bigoted cause…that was what I intended. And as I have never seen a comment from you pleading to leave the gingers alone, I can’t see what I have said is going to make you look like a wally!!!

        • Eugene

          I was being tongue-in-cheek.

          • joblow

            you should have put at least a ‘smiley’..lost me too

  • gingeinthecity

    Being Ginger, Gay and from the UK I dont mind saying i am completely dumbfounded by this response. Whilst bullying for any reason is still prevelant in the UK school system and still needs sorting..As a nation, in general, we do not target groups of people under false pretenses to abduct, kidnap and abuse/kill them. Comparing playground style teasing to homophobic attacks carried out by a goverment is absolutely disgusting.
    I used to think it would matter if Russia fell. Now i really dont care. the UN or someone needs to step on Russia about this and several other issues.

  • rumbelow

    In UK we do not associate red hair with paedophilia to deliberately stir up any already existing anti-ginger prejudice, nor do we ban the promotion of ginger hair or gag red heads from defending themselves by saying positive things about red hair.
    People who speak out about red hair in UK may say positive or neutral things about it without fear of breaking the law and not just negative demeaning things to vilify redheads.
    As far as I know there are not nation-wide vigilante groups organising the abduction of redheads to interrogate, humiliate and torture them.
    I don’t think plans are being discussed in UK to introduce a law to remove children from parents who have red hair and place them in care.

  • pomgolian

    no but we do kill women who report rape to the police in good faith and then who are character assassinated in the name of the law who then are driven to suicide.

  • pomgolian

    and the BBC Panorama programme pulled the same stunt with Poland and Ukraine. These journalists are a disgrace for exploiting the worst fears of LGBT in UK and whipping up anger in such a way as can only rebound negatively on LGBT. Oh and the Telegraph, for how many years was there no mention of LGBT. These journalists are a disgrace and we should have a care when allowing them to manipulate us.

    • That There Other David

      So you’d rather violence and intimidation of LGBT people in Russia, Ukraine and Poland go unreported would you?

      Someone’s certainly a disgrace, but I don’t think it’s the journalists.

      • Madgeographer

        LGBT situation is vastly different in all these countries, and in fact, these journalists should use a mirror.

        In Poland (population 38 mln people), 1 trans person has been murdered in a hate crime. In the UK (population) – 5 people in the period between 2008-2012, according to TGEU report.

        Poland has a trans MP (Anna Grodzka). Where is Britain? Now, it is better, but was it really a generation ago…

        I do agree that an alarm should ring, but you should not distort the view and equate vastly different countries:
        -in Poland, homosexuality was never illegal
        -in Ukraine, it was illegal when it was a part of the USSR, and Ukraine was the first USSR republic to legalise it (in 1991)
        -in Russia, it was illegal, until 1993, and now the “propaganda” ban, just as if homosexuality could be promoted, which is in fact looking for a scapegoat for Putin for his lack of talent and problems in Russia which he failed to address, to distract the society from these problems.

    • Madgeographer

      Well, the problem with Poland is that it was the only country which never punished homosexuality in its history, for some reason. Tolerance is widespread, but it never progressed much further, into acceptance. So Poles pride themselves from the history of tolerance and extremely good history record on human rights (first women were allowed to take part in political life in 18th century, corporal punishment of children was banned since 1783 in schools, slavery banned in 1588, very rare human trafficking…).

      But it is rather true that Poles assumed it’s all can be done. Well… No. Integrating society needs constant reforms.

  • James

    I don’t understand how they expect anyone to swallow this garbage. The Russian state has no respect for human rights whatsoever. Numerous enemies and critics of the government have been assassinated, with the police often not even bothering to feign interest, and elections are openly rigged. In Chechnya (a region of Russia with a large degree of autonomy), homosexuality appears to be punishable by death, though it’s hard to be certain as Chechnya’s Moscow-backed dictator doesn’t really care about niceties like the rule of law – he even has his own private prison where it is rumoured that he personally tortures people.

    • Paul

      This is garbage. Russia has signed up to the European Convention on Human Rights, the one that the Tories keep saying we should tear up. Chechnya has groups fighting for independence, so is rather like Northern Ireland, where the UK Government imprisoned people without trial, shot unarmed protesters dead and banned free speech.
      Obviously, Putin is a nasty piece of work and Russia doesn’t have a good human rights record, but OTT comments like this just give hatemongers ammunition to persuade ordinary Russians that we are hypocritical and anti Russian.

      • John

        And Russia has the most cases filed against it at the ECHR. They have one of the highest cases per capita too. It’s embarrassing.

        The fact that they are signed up to the European Court of Human Rights doesn’t actually say much. Russia’s human rights record is dismal regardless.

        • Paul

          This is more garbage. Anyone can file a case with the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR), so those numbers are meaningless. What counts is the number of times a country has been judged to breach the convention and yes, Russia topped that particular role of dishonour in 2013 with 119 judgements against it. However that was just one more than Turkey with 118 (and around half Russia’s population) and a number of other European countries have more judgements against them per capita.
          Russia is clearly not leading the way on respecting human rights, but if it had “no respect for human rights whatsoever” then, like Belarus, it wouldn’t have signed the ECHR. And if I were a Russian, I wouldn’t listen to any UK opinion about Russia’s human rights when so many UK parties, politicians and newspapers are constantly falling over themselves to condemn the ECHR. Some people on hear need to stop believing everything they read in the Daily Mail and think for themselves.

          • John

            Joining the ECHR doesn’t say anything about your intentions on human rights. That’s evident from exactly the example you’re giving (the UK). Some politicians think we don’t need it, yet they keep it for other reasons. There are other benefits to joining the Council of Europe and the ECHR is a requirement. Also being beaten by Turkey (per capita) is hardly an achievement for Russia (and neither is being beaten by very small countries where the stats are more variable).

            So it’s not garbage. Relative to the west, which Russia tries oh so hard to compete with, it’s human rights record is awful. It may not be North Korea or Iran but it’s indefensible.

  • Philip Breen

    “We will ruin his life as usual”. That is what our UK police did before the 2003 SOA when they used to hide behind bushes and in the rafters of public lavatories to prosecute men for ‘soliciting by man or persistently importuning for IMMORAL purposes’ when they weren’t even having sex with anyone.

  • Anatoli Bugorski

    Yes, we could all learn a thing or two from Russia on how to represent facts fairly in journalism. Not!

  • NT

    I couldn’t give a Sh*t what Russian ‘dimplomats’ say or think. They bare a bunch of ignorant fools propping up an anti-democratic regime in a country riven with corruption, which is sanctioned from the President down. The best thing the Russian Ambassador could do is get on a plane and go home.

  • Jones

    In the statement from the Russians it seems as if they condone abuse.

  • Jones

    We could film similar ‘Hunted’ documentary on ginger people in the UK. What because ginger people are classed as paedophiles here, taunted, beaten and the videos posted online?

  • Denis

    The Russian embassy seriously need to re read that sentence……I’ve never been told my flirting/dating ginger guys is on a par with the attacks perpetrated by the vile excuse for human beings in Russia….I better carry on then. What a bunch of knobheads

  • John

    Ginger bullying/taunting isn’t acceptable, even if meant as tongue-in-cheek (since it can be hurtful to kids), but the two things are not even in the same ballpark. We don’t have a law preventing ginger propaganda for a start. We don’t have 90% of the population saying that they don’t “accept” ginger people. We don’t have 40% of the population saying that it should be criminalised. We don’t have systematic violence against ginger people. I don’t think ginger people literally fear for their lives.

  • Darijen Zornaen

    I hope Russia gets infected by some pandemic disease and they subsequently all die…..how can you stay sane when they come out with rubbish like this??

  • kane

    are they saying that channel4 staged the scenes of abuse of russian lgbt???

  • Ray

    Most violence committed against homosexuals comes via other homosexuals .

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/revealed-violent-bank-boss-faces-3130168

    …not forgetting Boy George beating up a male prostitute chained to a radiator ….and for his ‘homophobic’ attack the homosexual lobby invites him to their little Nuremberg rally called ‘pride’ to go past the fawning crowds as a ‘gay icon’.The ‘homophobia’ hysteria is really getting out of touch with reality.Rare attacks by skinhead gangs on homosexuals is being used to divert the attention away from the child protection laws which are backed by the Russian people.(the skinhead gangs probably beat up more hetrosexuals …but this is not newsworthy because the are not deemed ‘victims’ ) .

    • http://www.derekwilliams.net Derek Williams

      And you cite a link to just one example is proof of this? You need at least a thousand to even start being statistically valid. If you were talking about gay bashers who are closet gays, you’d have a point. There is evidence the most homophobic people are closet gays, and sometimes don’t even realise it. However these don’t fit your paradigm of gays as all essentially violent people. That simply is not true.

      Truly heterosexual people are far too busy chasing the opposite sex
      to care what gays get up to. Most of my friends are straight and they
      don’t show 1/10 of the obsession with my homosexuality that homophobic
      commenters do when they cruise gay topic forums, commenting obsessively.

      As Shakespeare observed through Hamlet, “The lady doth protest too
      much, methinks”.

      Homophobes are often closet homosexuals who display an irrational obsession with homosexuality. Their inversion is brought about usually by having been raised in anti-gay households, perhaps surrounded by the same at school and at work, and so have to repress their homosexuality. Who would ever suspect a gay basher is actually gay themselves the whole time?

      Famous examples include
      George ‘Rent Boy’ Rekers, Rev. Ted Haggard, Bishop Eddie Long, Cardinal
      Keith O’Brien, Senator Roy Ashburn…

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014
      http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=homophobes-might-be-hidden-homosexuals
      http://www.ranker.com/list/top-10-anti-gay-activists-caught-being-gay/joanne?page=1
      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120406234458.htm
      http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/bibabs.html

    • Rehan

      Do you actually understand the meaning of the word ‘most’, Ray? It seems not.

  • Mark Booshard

    they gotta point me and my mates picked a ginger up from the streets only the other night we asked him if he used hair die and that if his boss knew he was a ginger he would get fired, we then pissed on him and let him go

  • http://www.derekwilliams.net Derek Williams

    Don’t they know how much we all love Prince Harry?

  • Frank Boulton

    I’m ginger, gay and from the UK and I can assure the Russian embassy that I have never been abused or discriminated against for being ginger, apart from occasionally being addressed as “Hey, Ginge.”
    I haven’t seen the documentary “Hunted” as I now live in New Zealand but all the reports, which I have read, indicate that it does not comment on the violence, which it has recorded. It is to be noted that straight Russians are also reporting being subjected to homophobic violence, as homophobic attacks are based on perceived sexual orientation rather than actual sexual orientation.
    The Russian embassy commented about Occupy Paedophilia: “As its name suggests, [it] targets only paedophiles both straight and gay”. This is a feeble excuse, because it merely justifies mob rule. It justifies the fact that this neo-Nazi group is acting as judge, jury and executioner. Despite their embassy making this comment, the Russians have arrested the leader of Occupy Paedophilia since the broadcast of the documentary. This is doublespeak. If the documentary were mere hate-mongering, what need would their be to start making arrests. It looks as if Channel 4’s documentary is pushing the Russian government into taking action against homophobic violence. Well done, Channel 4.

  • Read Fagburn.com

    The point of the original statement was a strong refutation of Hunted’s claims that Russia condones anti-gay violence, and that the people responsible are not prosecuted.

    It can be read here – http://www.rusemblon.org/press/1672

    You may want to ask how – and why – this can be completely ignored and twisted into this silly trivialising piece.

  • Swank

    The level of Eastern European immigration in East London has brought this type of backward thinking to our streets once again. We shouldn’t see this as a problem that only happens ‘over there'; violence and gay attacts are in the rise in London too.

  • M.Fever

    drrrr…WHAT? there is NO comparison period!
    http://www.getoffmydress.blogspot.com/2014/02/bleedn-hearts-club.html

  • Harry Underwood

    Deflect, deflect, deflect. Also known as “and you are lynching Negroes”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

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