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Anglican Mainstream: God would be opposed to banning gay conversion therapy

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  1. God would also be against televisions, cars, planes, computers, you know, unnatural things.

    1. … and don’t forget life-saving medical intervention. Surely, god must be FURIOUS that he makes people ill – and then disobedient mankind goes and finds cures.

      1. Yep, so bloody obvious, isn’t it. It makes one realise how dreadfully mentally ill these religious loons are – because it’s extraordinarily hard to shake the belief of these people, extraordinarily hard to shake them out of their delusions, to wake them up to REALITY.

    2. Let’s not fall into the trap here. God? What’s that? Dog spelt backwards? It’s superstition – don’t fall for it.

    3. Frank Boulton 16 Jan, 2:36pm

      And let’s not forget that all of those good, Christian Bible translators are going to burn in Hell for all eternity. God doesn’t want us to understand each other – at least not if one takes the story of the Tower of Babel literally.

    4. God would definitely be opposed to organised religion.

  2. Brendan 10 Jan, 1:49pm

    “[…] it would set into law the idea that to attempt to change sexual orientation is ‘harmful’.” – yes, exactly. Why? Because is is harmful…

  3. The same people whose church sponsored invasions of other countries to convert “savages” to their religion. The same church who tries to convert “lgbt” folk. the same church who supported slavery. Times change, but the church does not.

  4. How does he know? Did he ask Him direct? The arrogance!

    1. Rev. Andrew Symes’ God sounds a lot like the Rev. Andrew Symes himself,
      I wonder if God looks like Rev. Andrew Symes as well?
      Maybe Rev.Andrew Symes is God?

  5. BlokeToys 10 Jan, 2:19pm

    “It has also been generally agreed that stable, loving, heterosexual marriage is a foundational cornerstone for a stable society”

    Well, that’s a lie. Show me the proof, scientific evidence NOT manufactured by a cult.

    “and that this necessarily involves encouraging people to overcome natural tendencies to promiscuity, adultery and homosexual practice. Only recently, in the last few years, have these axioms been challenged.”

    Wrong again.

    It’s funny how these religious defectives and cult members continually insist on propagating falsehoods in an effort to defend their bigotry and hatred.

    It’s remarkable that these imbeciles continue to preach about marriage being a “cornerstone” of society, while ignoring divorce rates.

    He’s yet another unintelligible loon. I long for the day when their pseudo-psychological bullsh*t is made criminal.

  6. A “Threat to Christians”? FFS… The only threat is THEM. The Church has condoned locking women in mental institutions & convents for pregnancy out of wedlock. They have forced the mothers to go through electric shock therapy, they have removed their child and had them adopted. They have persecuted other religions and killed in the name of God. They have constantly attacked the LGBT community and they have the nerve to say they are at threat?!

    They cry discrimination when they are denied the opportunity to persecute others.

    Why can’t they get over the fixation of LGBT? Why can’t they live their own lives rather than constantly try to force themselves into our lives?

    Sorry for rant. They just get on my tits

    1. Pete (Nottingham) 10 Jan, 3:23pm

      I loved your rant. Well said :)

      1. Haha. Thanks. it’s been brewing for the last couple of days thanks to a few twitter clashes. I have to be “cleaner” on here though. I could say much worse ;-)

        1. Keep calling out like that, Lee, and don’t apologise for it. You’re not ranting. There are 100s of 1000s of homophobes out there who really want to put us down and turn back the clock.

  7. Surely God would be against *all* therapists whether they support “conversion therapy” or not. After all, anyone who goes to see a therapist has either not tried prayer to overcome their condition, or *has* prayed but is impatient for the results.

    1. Yeah but those other therapies aren’t a threat to his power and influence, so he doesn’t care.

  8. Well ‘god’ is a fictional character so who cares what it thinks.

    More mental illness from the religious weirdos.

  9. Don Harrison 10 Jan, 2:48pm

    Our God is a loving God.
    God is upto to dste.
    God loves the people who think they know what he would say enen when they are wrong.
    God would not ask LGBT people to be tortured with a gay conversation therapy.

    1. Joanne Cooper 10 Jan, 3:48pm

      There’s been more wars fought in the name of god, people tortured and killed in the name of god if your god truly is loving then ask him come down to earth and sort this mess out that everyone who believes in him and show who’s right or who’s wrong I have a sneaky feeling no one will come it’s all just a delusional act.

      1. If these delusional loons believe they speak for The Almighty Sky Fairy, let them bring him / her to court and let’s hear it from the horse’s mouth. I’m SICK of them claiming to speak for an imaginary entity. It’s pathetic, childish and insulting to rational people. If they didn’t sport these self-awarded religious tiles, they’d be locked in a secure institution for claiming to speak to invisible beings.

    2. I’m afraid that’s just your word against Andrew Symes’s.

      1. Frank Boulton 16 Jan, 2:50pm

        I thought that, when people continued to have conversations with imaginary friends beyond puberty, the usual diagnosis was paranoid schizophrenia.

    3. No, that’s what you THINK and it does not mean other perspectives are incorrect, some simply get bad messages, some get good messages.

  10. So certain people think they have a hotline to the giant pink pixie in the sky who tells them what he thinks? I used to believe in Father Christmas, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny; Father Christmas lives with the Elves, the Fairy is, well a fairy so that figures and as for the Bunny we all know what rabbits do(!)

  11. I think they’re tacitly admitting old Jehovah is more impotent than omnipotent…

    1. Or maybe God is actually omni-impotent.

  12. The only reason these nut jobs want to retain ‘cures’ is because they fear they may one day be in need of one. Look – the only reason sad people seek a ‘cure’ is because of the ‘taboo’ of homosexuality. If religion hadn’t denounced homosexuality as a ‘sin’ in the first place, there would be no ‘taboo’. The answer to all this is simple. Ban religion’s constant negativity about homosexuality. That way, people in the increasingly secular world can just get on with loving one another without religion stirring up hatred.

  13. This ‘therapy’ doesn’t work any better than the god who, it appears, doesn’t answer the prayers of those who ask to stop being gay!

  14. Aparrently God is against cutting your hair so I cant wait to see them picketing barbers shops. Oh wait. Hold on its up to them what parts of the Bible they CHOOSE to follow. So I guess thats ok then

    1. … and don’t forget to picket pork butchers …. and shell-fish mongers … and tailors who make clothes out of two kinds of material. Why does no-one elver question these loons about the OTHER bits of the bible which seek to govern their lives? The bible is either a ‘rule’ book – or it isn’t. These people cannot be allowed to quote selected bits which just happen to suit their own warped, bigoted minds and ignore all the others.

  15. Joanne Cooper 10 Jan, 3:42pm

    I think we need conversion therapy to help narrow & closed minded people to be more open minded and accepting to others we just might have a better society than we already have.

  16. Robert in S. Kensington 10 Jan, 3:51pm

    Just watch the Tories try to torpedo Geraint James’ bill along with the right wing religious nutjob organisations.

  17. My god, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, recently reached into my brain with her noodly apendage and told me that she is very upset when humans use non tomato based sauces on her devine pasta.

    No more cream based sauces, you’re pissing FSM off!

  18. I wonder when the totally non-homophobic Church of England are going to start challenging these people? Andrea Williams is a member of their governing body, so surely they have a responsibility to respond to her.

  19. Cult deprogramming should be more widely available for those who engage in a religious lifestyle. That actually works because unlike being LGBT, being religious is a choice.

    No comments from the odious David Skinner yet? Sure there will be since he has written for Anglican Mainstream before, and we all know how he loves to browse PinkNews lol.

  20. Sky a.k.a. JD Aeon 10 Jan, 4:26pm

    Nobody needs a RELIGION in order to worship and to love the Ultimate Source of it all – The Supreme Being (whether you prefer to call It a Goddess, God, or Goddesses or Gods), the natural respect, love and worshipping of the Source was here before Religions were INVENTED.
    My hopes are that someday, most people on this planet Earth will wake up and question their men-made-up “Belief & Language” and also their men-made-up Collections of invented Values and of invented Conduct.
    The daring nerve, the gall of some of these shameful critters of our Species, who self-appoint themselves to their own invented high pedestals, who arrogantly assume, who presume to have the word and the will of the Supreme Being… It makes me laugh out loud because, all that they ever had and always have are the words and the will of our own Species, not God’s!

  21. Tom Cotner 10 Jan, 4:44pm

    I am so utterly grateful for a religious sect who knows exactly what God would be for or against. It is comforting to rest in the care of those who are so certain of God’s will.

    Uh – Uh —- ;-)

  22. nixi otemba 10 Jan, 4:52pm

    just seeing the man’s face, makes me throw up

    1. BUD CLARK 10 Jan, 8:12pm

      He probably has a VERY small penis.

  23. “threat to Christianity”?

    I guess if you’re paranoid, everything’s a threat.

  24. Unacceptable arrogance. These cretins still think they should be running things with their hocus locus and magic spells.

  25. Oh, for goodness’ sake! Anglican Mainstream, your “God” doesn’t exist! He’s a figment of your sad and sick imagination! Just get that into your head and never mind going on to sit around imagining what your non-existent “God” would or would not ban!

    1. Ye gods! I don’t know where to even start with these people so I shan’t bother! Someone needs to firmly tell them that generally-speaking Britain believes in rationality and science and we are NOT the same as the redneck, Republican-voting, gun-toting ‘bible-bashing’ states like Alabama, Texas, Mississippi, Arkansas ect

  26. If God is in the ‘conversion business’ perhaps he could convert the Rev. gentleman from an ill-informed homophobic moron into a rational human being.
    Somehow or other it’s surely more telling that every reputable medical/psychiatric body has utterly condemned conversion therapy as ineffective and dangerous!!!

  27. CH Brighton 10 Jan, 5:25pm

    God (if it existed) would be opposed to hate groups like anglican mainstream.

  28. white squirrel 10 Jan, 6:30pm

    so if their imaginary ‘god’ is so opposed – bring it on

  29. white squirrel 10 Jan, 6:39pm

    if the word of ‘god’ in the bible is so important to them – how come that Christinsane concern have a woman speaker ? contrary to the dictate of ‘St’ [sic] Paul

  30. white squirrel 10 Jan, 6:44pm

    the bible has no mention of ‘gay conversion therapy’
    how does this deranged fundie know ‘god’ would be opposed

  31. Mihangel apYrs 10 Jan, 7:43pm

    I really think that PN and other media should stop using the slavish courtesy titles such as “reverend”, “most reverend”, “holiness” etc. They are not objective and are self-awarded by the cults involved

    1. Totally correct!!! Whenever I’ve been so incensed by any of their insane ramblings that I’ve put pen to paper, I refuse to use their self-awarded titles. It’s all designed to force you to know your place. “We’re better than you”. Clever psychology. But the age of deference for these con-artists is over.

  32. Lawrence Chevalier 10 Jan, 7:44pm

    So tell me, bible students. Once a woman can no longer bear children, does the church enforced celibacy on them? Why are women permitted to remarry once the big “M” happens? I still am permitted to sell my daughter for so many pieces of silver , can I not?

  33. BUD CLARK 10 Jan, 8:08pm

    The bigots at “Anglican Mainstream” (of piss) can kiss my lifelong Anglican queer ass.

  34. GulliverUK 10 Jan, 8:27pm

    Anglican Mainstream are just another hate group. What if I proposed that fundamentalists / traditionalists and orthodox Christians are mentally ill and need to be repaired. I bet far more people would go along with that than the clear understanding we have in this country that sexual orientation is biological from birth – that’s just scientific fact, there’s more than enough evidence now. We know that conversion therapy is very harmful, sometime fatal. We know that religious fundamentalism is very dangerous, it’s disruptive to good cohesion and functioning of society, whilst diversity has just tons of benefits to society. Taken that they believe in God, who the hell are they to claim they know how to interpret ancient tribal nonsense correctly – and why should we? They must also believe in slavery, stoning disobedient children to death, and those who work on Sundays. We’ve rightly outlawed half the Bible, because it was found to be fundamentally flawed in reasoning and justice.

  35. That There Other David 10 Jan, 10:54pm

    He’s right of course. God would be opposed to this Bill…if God existed at all. You only have to read the Bible to see what a complete sh*t God would be, if He was real.

    Meanwhile, back on planet Earth vulnerable people need protection. So let’s all ignore Anglican Mainstream and ban charlatan quackery masquerading as medicine shall we?

  36. violets49 11 Jan, 12:49am

    I love the way these total arseholes always know what ‘GOD’ wants. They can’t even prove he exists but they know exactly what he wants! I think THEY need psychiatric help!

  37. Someone has to say it … I support Rev. Symes!

  38. I am always amazed at these people who claim to know exactly what God is thinking. Perhaps they would advise politicians as to what God thinks about wars and other atrocities?

  39. AhContraire 11 Jan, 7:09am

    Is gay conversion all that bad if you consider the medically dangers of gay acts like sodomy?

    That is, Doesn’t the medical community recommend that you, “Wash your hands after you go to the bathroom.”?

    Yet, now there are some in the medical community that now say it’s OK to “Sleep with the waste that gets flushed down in the toilet?” and that it’s possible to live a perfectly normal life.

    Twitter Handle: AhContraire

    1. Guglielmo Marinaro 11 Jan, 2:18pm

      AhContraire, if you’re a man, I do hope that you haven’t been shoving the appendage that spouts the liquid waste that gets flushed down in the toilet into a woman. And if you’re a woman, do you think that it’s possible to sleep with that liquid waste and still live a normal life?

  40. I support Rev. Symes and his well expressed views.

    1. Are you like Rev.Symes also a supporter of Christian Dominionism?

      1. “Dominion Theology or Dominionism is the idea that Christians should work toward either a nation governed by Christians or one governed by a conservative Christian understanding of biblical law” – Wikipedia – I hadn’t thought about it until you mentioned it. While I would like to see government by Christian principles I don’t think that will happen before the Messiah returns but I do believe part of loving my neighbour which is the great command means supporting and encouraging righteous government.

        1. Christian dominionism would be just like the Taliban. Since you agree with Symes too I’m pretty confident your idea of a ‘righteous’ government would not be good. Care to explain how such a government would/should deal with LGBT people?

          You are joking when you say “…before the Messiah returns…”

          yes? I have a sinking feeling you may actually believe it will happen, hopefully I’m wrong.

          1. Im deadly serious actually. Having concluded that no human government has got is completely right, some have got is significantly wrong and the rest are good in parts and bad in others I look forward to the messiah’s reign which is a million miles from anything the taliban will come up with.

            you may be pleased to know that some of the things LGBT people fear, evidenced by some of the draconian anti-LGBT laws still enacted, I would NOT want seen imposed. We are all sinners irrespective of our sexual orientation and the enactment I would like to see is right rewarded and sin NOT endorsed, although ONLY God can truly arbitrate such matters,

  41. So, Andrew Symes thinks “This bill is a threat to Christian counsellors who work in this area, and to people with same-sex attraction who want to access counselling that is trained and accredited.”

    Well, the Association of Christian Counsellors would beg to differ and have just issued a statement prohibiting the use of ‘reparative’ therapy and thus bring themselves into alignment with the ethical practices of the BACP, UKCP and the British Psychodrama Association.

    See: http://www.core-issues.org/uploads/acc-uk.org_Enews40_Jan14%281%29.pdf

    and a response from Mike Davidson of the homophobic Core Issues Trust who was suspended from training with the BPA and who promoted “The Lepers Among Us” conference

    http://www.core-issues.org/uploads/CIT%20Response%20to%20ACC%201013%20Statement%2010th%20January%202014-FINAL.pdf

    http://www.core-issues.org/uploads/CIT%20Response%20to%20ACC%201013%20Statement%2010th%20January%202014-FINAL.pdf

  42. Does anyone else find it funny how fundamentalists always say the bible condemns homosexuality, yet never tell us what it actually says? Is it because they know that it’s too crazy even for most religious loons? Or is it because it shows how pathetic and impotent the church is now? ‘Sorry, Yahweh, we didn’t murder them like you commanded us to, but we did our best to stop them from making any legal commitment to each other as well as using questionable ‘psychiatry’ to make the more vulnerable of them self loathe even more.’

  43. Guglielmo Marinaro 11 Jan, 1:54pm

    “But even more seriously, it seeks to take away from God the right to bring change in a particular area of human life.”

    If there is a God, and if he is omnipotent, then he can presumably change anyone’s sexual orientation at any time, although the evidence suggests that he does it, if ever, only once in a blue moon. According to the Old Testament, he can also make people rich (e.g. I Kings 3:13). If God wants for some inscrutable reason to turn a gay person straight, no human law restricting useless and time-wasting “therapy” can stand in his way, any more than outlawing boiler-room scams can stop him from making someone rich.

  44. Okay, now this is going too far, and I say that as a liberal. I supported this kind of law when it was only about minors being sent to gay conversion “therapy”, but why stop willing adults from doing the same? It’s silly, it’s ineffective, and there may be some legitimate legal issues over claiming it’s real “therapy”, but an outright ban for adults is an overreaction.

  45. The only reason some people struggle with homosexuality is because of the religious taboo about it. If the taboo didn’t exist, people would feel no need for a ‘cure’. So the answer is simple. Remove the source of the taboo.

    1. There is no reference to, nor condemnation of homosexuality per se in scripture, the few descriptions that do exist refer to same sex acts as part of ritual worship as in Romans, or instances of commercial or abusive same sex acts related to prostitution and pederasty as in Corinthians
      The earliest verse allegedly describing same sex acts in Leviticus is incomplete and translates directly as “A male with another male shall not lay lyings of a woman.” nobody today can know for certain what the verse is condemning, there is no obvious translation that does not require modern insertions to give it meaning, it is more likely condemning the defilement of a woman’s bed.
      Elsewhere there is a further extensive list of prohibitions to do with a woman’s bed, who may sleep in it and what to do about bodily secretions etc.

  46. Colin (Queenstown/London) 12 Jan, 7:02pm

    They are basically stupid uneducated people who want to control people. It really is time people treated them as ordinary men pushing fairy stories in dresses.

  47. to change sexual orientation is ‘harmful’. But even
    more seriously, it seeks to take away from God the right to bring change in a particular area of human life. It is directly contradicting God’s word.”

    Well, if god is all-powerful I’m quite sure he’ll sort it out himself. Assuming he exists, of course.

  48. Keith Barber 13 Jan, 11:50am

    Of course, Anglican Mainstream is neither!

    If their god (who’s not my God – I write as a cradle Anglican) is that upset about this bill, I’m sure he can do whatever conversion Symes wants for himself. There’s no need at all for the reverend gentleman to help him out.

    It may be, of course, that God is only too pleased to see long-delayed changes happening, love accepted wherever it is found, people supported to grow and flourish as the people they were meant to be. I would have no problem believing in such a God.

    The bill itself *should* be killed off. As a psychotherapist I think government regulation would cause enormous problems. But what really worries me in this particular case is what might happen if therapy were to be regulated and a new government decided conversion therapy was not just permissible but required? The 2009 proposals would probably have killed the profession. I’d rather the government kept out of deciding how therapy is to be conducted, thank you.

  49. ‘Christian faith is not an emotional or intellectual construction, something we create or imagine…’
    Hilarious. Best laugh of 2014 so far. I was just sharing the joke with the objectively real unicorns in my back garden.
    As to the main subject, I don’t think this voodoo should be legally banned. It would be impossible to enforce (think of all that fuzzy stuff just labelled ‘praying together’), and both practitioners and willing ‘patients’ would become unnecessary martyrs. Adults should have the right to make bad choices, but it should be a bit like smoking – there should be constant warnings about the uselessness and harmfulness of the procedure. No NHS-funded therapist or institution should be allowed to practise it.
    And I am serious about its being restricted to adults. Anyone caught using this witchcraft with under-18s should be fined or imprisoned, whatever the young ‘client’ believes about it.

  50. drdanfee 13 Jan, 8:48pm

    We have scant empirical indications that SOCE aka Conversion Therapy works. Despite anecdotal reports, in which personal stories of minimal (wasted time and wasted money) to deeply egregious (self-hatred at intensities which produce major depressions, stress injury aka PTSD, and suicidality?) harm far outnumber the anecdotes of ‘happy’ and ‘effective’ sexual orientation change. Some of the harm personal stories take literally decades of adult life to unfold to damaging final chapters. Practitioner bias is so real that only a carefully arranged double-blind study will set aside the bias effects when we are trying to evaluate new medicines. Imagine how dicey SOCE gets? Full Informed Consent? (Most people will fail to change.) No independent quality or outcomes monitoring? (SOCE is going well in my expert practitioner opinion so who are you to say otherwise?) No post termination well-being follow up. No referral to help to address any damage caused.

  51. Frank Boulton 16 Jan, 3:42pm

    The point that all seem to have missed is that this bill if passed is not a threat to Christian beliefs and practices. It seeks to regulate medical practice by proscribing a treatment, which offers no proven benefits and causes much harm. Psychiatric therapists should be bound by medical ethics and the law needs to enforce this. If this bill passes into law, Christians will still be allowed to spread their odious propaganda, pray away the gay and practice mumbo-jumbo.

  52. James Campbell 16 Jan, 6:53pm

    So …. On that basis, we should allow extremist orthodox followers of any religion to freely practise ‘therapy’ to ‘cure’ (for example) female orgasm’? After all, that chain smoking, sex obsessed guru Sigmund Freud considered that female orgasm was “immature and masculine in its nature” which therefore hindered femininity. As we all know, this is about as true as saying that homosexuality is a choice and can be eradicated by ‘therapy’ …. Since I do have the qualifications (at a somewhat higher level than that of the ‘psychotherapists’ employed by advocates of this method of ‘curing’ same sex attraction), I am considering opening a clinic to provide therapy for the terminally confused, orthodox religious bigots who DO choose which ‘lifestyle’ to follow.

  53. Don Harrison 17 Jan, 7:40pm

    I have been out in an Anglican Village Church in Cambridgeshire quiet pubically for several years. I know that Jesus and of course God loves me. Jesus loves everyone whether LGBT who follow him, of not.

  54. David Skinner 20 Jan, 6:19pm

    The group B4U-ACT founded by convicted paedophile, Michael Melsheimer, is asking for therapy to alleviate the anxiety and loss of self esteem of paedophiles. Dominic Davies of Pink Therapy offers therapy for those involved in sado- masochism and kinky sex. Clearly Pink News have no qualms about therapists enabling patients to change towards more extreme orientations. Travel goes only in one direction: towards bondage and slavery. In the same way that Islam does not allow its follows to renounce its beliefs, so Stonewall have introduced their own brand of Pink Shariah.
    All that stuff about ‘live and let live’ and ‘what people do in their private lives is of no concern to others’ is pure hypocrisy. If a man or woman want to mutilate their bodies in order to become trannies this is applauded by the gay mainstream; but if a man or woman want to save their marriages and families by being set free from destructive sexual addictions like homosexuality, this is forbidden.

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