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Christian Concern: Tom Daley came out because his father died so Jamaica should keep its buggery law

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  1. Robert in S. Kensington 9 Dec 2013, 4:44pm

    The harpie Minichiello Williams now confirms what I’ve always felt about Christian Concern. It’s a HATE group! I hope the label sticks because that’s just what it is.

    1. Penile-vaginamy is not something I want to think about too deeply , so I tend not to if possible and it doesn’t concern me.
      Even so, If Andrea Minichiello Williams wants to engage in the penile-vaginal sexual acts she is so enthusiastic about then I wouldn’t dream of trying to prevent her from doing so, let her exchange her bodily fluids and discharges with the bodily fluids and discharges of any man of her choice, it’s not my dirty business but hers.
      Why does she feel the need to intervene in the sexual activities of others and make it her business?
      Is she not satisfied with engaging in her own acts of penile-vaginamy?
      Perhaps it’s not all it’s cracked up to be!

      1. Seriously, these people are dedicated Christian dominionist’s working to impose a strict literal form of intolerant Christian theocracy upon everyone.

    2. Stinking harpie is the usual term I think, totally appropriate here too.

    3. Midnighter 18 Dec 2013, 7:22pm

      Even the Church of England are now distancing themselves from this deluded witch:

      The Bishop of Chester went on record as saying her comments have “no sanction in the Church of England” and that they “should be rejected as offensive and unacceptable”.”

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/christian-concern-founder-andrea-minichiello-williams-angers-gay-rights-campaigner-after-speech-in-jamaica-9013365.html

      1. Christopher Shell 28 Dec 2013, 2:00pm

        ‘Witch’ hunts are mediaeval.

  2. Are these people insane? They profess to be ‘loving’ christians but encourage the persecution of fellow human beings simply because of whom they love? If, by any silly, childish, remote possibility there is a ‘Never Never Land”, I hope their St. Peter Pan is waiting at the gates for them with a one-way ticket home. They are revolting specimens of the human species whom, I would guess, are as homophobic as they are due to the self-hatred from which they appear to be suffering. It’s pretty obvious to me that to be SO homophobic, they most definitely have ‘issues’ about sexuality …..

    1. That There Other David 9 Dec 2013, 9:07pm

      Yes, they are insane. Every time they open their mouths they confirm it.

    2. Midnighter 9 Dec 2013, 9:41pm

      Yep. They are not merely insane (in that they persist in accepting and acting out upon a total fantasy) but where they seek to spread and impose their insanity I would describe them as “rabidly insane”.

      I find their cross-dressing cosplaying cult of cannibalism disturbing enough on principle, but I find it particularly revolting that they spew lies and fabrication and claim it as ‘truth’.

      Rabidly insane liars.

  3. Christian hate at it again. Does anyone know where this evil woman resides in the uk? maybe neighbours should be made aware who is living amongst them. I would want to know if someone as dangerous as this is living near me, as i’m sure many parents who oppose hate groups would also.

    1. I’m not sure where she comes from, possibly one of the poorer parts of the world like Jamaica… where I’ve been told the women will… ahem! cough! cough!… for a potato (lol)

      1. But she resides in the uk I assumed, as its UK hate based group.

        1. Yes I know rapture, I was only joking and partially quoting from this.
          http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/1554fc5264/the-conjugal-rights-guide

    2. Robert in S. Kensington 10 Dec 2013, 12:41pm

      She probably resides in central London. Christian Concern’s office is located at 70 Wimpole Street, a fashionable neighbourhood. What is extraordinary is that this demented freak was elected to the CoE synod in 2010 for five years.

      1. I know it, it’s parallel to Harley street. Thanks, I wonder do the other business’s know Nazis on their doorstep, mostly medical surgical on that street .

      2. CoE Synod?? I didn’t know that, Robert. Now I find that totally shocking. I wonder if they knew about her views at that time.

    3. Since Minichiello-Williams is a member of the laity in the diocese of Chichester, it’s probably not an ureasonable assumption that she resides within that doicese which covers Horsham, Chichester, Lewes and Hastings.

      See: http://www.chichester.anglican.org/places-maps/

  4. “The dirty little secret that the media and homosexual activists are desperate — desperate — to squelch is that people are coming out of homosexuality every day.”

    I was told this when I was an ex-gay and I asked if I could meet with these people to hear their stories. But I was told that they are very discreet and don’t want anyone to know they used to be gay. Now I’m an ex-ex-gay I suspect these people don’t really exist. Shocking lies from ‘Christian’ Concern!

  5. Robert in S. Kensington 9 Dec 2013, 6:04pm

    I’ve been tweeting all supportive MPs and other with this PN article. I advise everyone with Twitter, Facebook or any other social media to do the same. Make a lot of loud noise. I even contacted Ben Summerskill for what it’s worth. It’s about time we had some sort of official labelling of hate groups similar to what the Americans have with the Southern Poverty Law Center which has listed over 1100 hate groups in the U.S. Christian Concern would ideally qualify for the label after this vile rhetoric from Minichiello Williams

    1. Completely with you on this one Robert. A list of UK hate groups is long overdue!

  6. Going to foreign countries and lobbying governments to maintain the criminalizing of entire sections of their population.
    I guess we know exactly what they want for the US and European countries, a return to the centuries when gay people were illegal. Because us LGBTs merely existing as human beings is such a dire threat to their worthless “faith”. They’re just too afraid to say it to their own public audiences.

  7. To see the conference in Jamaica that Minicliello-Williams, Peter LaBarbara and other right wing bigots are speaking at, see:

    http://www.jchs.org.jm/conference-speakers.html

    For comments on the so called Jamaica Coalition, see:

    http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20130527/lead/lead1.html

    1. Those links are disturbing.

      What’s interesting is that they are trying to claim they are not homophobic. Which would be like the KKK claiming they are not racist!!!! Insane and laughable. They really a joke.

    2. Christopher Shell 28 Dec 2013, 2:04pm

      You can’t still be labouring under the misapprehension that the world divides neatly into right-wing and left-wing people. Most Christians are so-called right wing on the family (as are the science and the statistics) and left-wing on poverty, justice and equality. Do you honestly think that there are not people who are different wings on different things? Honestly?

      Anyone who uses the word ‘bigot’ is themselves a bigot (someone who jumps to simplistic conclusions based on their own prejudices) because they think that an analysis consisting of just a single dismissive word somehow shows intelligence!!!

      Of this intelligence we all stand in awe.

  8. Stay classy Andrea!

    Yep, let’s use the discredited “absent father” theory to dismiss Tom Daley’s sexuality and score cheap points.

    Are there any other cancer victims you’d like to chuck under the bus to advance your petty moral crusade whilst you’re at it?

    Perhaps she’d care to comment on all those gay people who have happy relations with their parents?

    Pinning his sexuality on Tom Daley’s dad is a new low even for them.

    Contempt doesn’t even begin to decribe what I feel about “Christian Concern”

  9. I do wish Tom would take legal advise and sue them for making statements which are untrue -she really is a sad human being -

    1. Midnighter 9 Dec 2013, 9:06pm

      Too bloody right; I was about to make the same comment. I’m confident he would have a case to do so.

  10. So do straight men become straight when their Mothers die young, or they have an absent Mother? And do lesbians become lesbians when their fathers are too present, or when they have absent Mothers too? And do girls abused by their father’s becomes lesbians, and is she suggesting that young lads that turn our gay are abused by their Mothers?

    Her reasoning just doesn’t make sense, if she would think about it for more than one second. They’re both so stupid, they’re embarrassing.

  11. As if the Holocaust, the Spanish Inquisition and countless mass murders perpetrated in the name of this religion over the last 2000 years has not been enough. Yet we must remain tolerant and hope against hope that one day, some day they may see the light.

  12. Tim Hanafin 9 Dec 2013, 7:28pm

    Sounds like white imperialist colonialist missionaries in action again. They should have been refused entry to the country. Can there be a more hateful group of people purporting to be followers of Christ? So called ‘Christian Concern’ should be designated as a hate group and should be ostracised by mainstream Christian religions.
    BTW I’d love to give that evil witch a good slap

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 9 Dec 2013, 9:42pm

      Nobody of notoriety or with any back bone is going to draw a line in the sand and call Christian Concern a hate group, although I did just that today when I tweeted the vile creature and what I thought of her. Of course, there will be no response since she’s never acknowledged any of my tweets in the past.

  13. Daley needs to sue for slander and defamation of character.

  14. CH Brighton 9 Dec 2013, 7:44pm

    Sadly even the PN reporter here is being influenced by these religious groups’ use of the phrase ‘same sex attraction’ (SSA). This is their term by which the religious right remove any notion of ‘love’ from same sex relationships and imply the ‘phenomenon’ of SSA is a deviant lust. Those individuals and groups who seek to impose a religious interpretation on human sexuality refuse to use the term ‘gay’ and if forced to use an alternative to SSA prefer the 19th century pseudo-psychological term ‘homosexual’. Our sexuality is real. As with any other sexual beings, it is what we live out in our lives and our loves. The term same sex attraction is not intended as a positive descriptor, it is used to demean us and deny the positive experiences of our loves and friendships.

    1. Midnighter 9 Dec 2013, 9:16pm

      Attraction doesn’t have to be (solely) physical. My experience is that I am attracted to certain personalities and attitudes more than others, and the physical packaging – while important – isn’t the only factor.

      “Attraction” seems a perfectly neutral and generic term to me.

      My gut reaction is that this is a storm in a teacup, but I’m genuinely interested; do you have evidence of your claim that religious groups prefer “same sex attraction” to gay? Where have they used it to “demean us and deny the positive experiences of our loves and friendships.” ?

      1. Guglielmo Marinaro 9 Dec 2013, 10:06pm

        In itself the term there is nothing wrong with the term “same-sex attraction”; it is simply a rough and ready definition of homosexuality. In the same way, one could refer to heterosexuality as “other-sex attraction”, and it would be just as innocuous – and equally pointless.

        The problem is that the anti-gay/“ex-gay” brigade have a whole lexicon of deceitful jargon which they use in order to deny or distort reality, and “same-sex attraction” or “SSA” is one of the items in it. For example, gay people who are still in the process of coming to terms with their natural minority sexuality are said to be “struggling with same-sex attraction” and pushing the abusive “ex-gay” fraud at them is called “showing compassion for those suffering from unwanted SSA”. So the term is best avoided.

        1. ““same-sex attraction” or “SSA” is one of the items in it. “
          So it is claimed and yet no one has shown me any evidence, which is all I’m asking for; show me where this phrase is being used maliciously.

          As euphemisms go, this phrase doesn’t seem to add any negative spin to homosexuality.

          At the moment you might as well be telling me to believe in bearded men on a cloud. I see that you believe this thing, but you haven’t given me a reason to do so.

          1. Jane McQueen 10 Dec 2013, 1:18pm

            By using the term SSA, they are trying to reenforce their views and opinions that homosexuality is a choice and not an inherent thing. So as such they can justify their bigotry and hatred

          2. Guglielmo Marinaro 10 Dec 2013, 1:32pm

            Here’s a good example:

            http://desertstream.org/Publisher/File.aspx?id=1000040154

            Try googling “healing same-sex” attraction and “overcoming same-sex attraction” for plenty of others.

            Whether or not its use is malicious is perhaps a matter of opinion. I didn’t use the word “malicious” myself; I find the word “pernicious” more appropriate. It’s what is known, I believe, as a “dog-whistle”, a bit like calling Roman Catholics “Papists” or always referring to President Obama as “Barack HUSSEIN Obama”. (Neither appellation is factually incorrect.) A country that calls itself a “people’s democratic republic” doesn’t HAVE to be a despotic tyranny, but it probably is. Similarly, someone who speaks of “same-sex attraction” doesn’t HAVE to be implying that being gay means suffering from an undesirable “condition” that needs “fixing” and that gay relationships are bad, but they probably are.

          3. It is pretty obvious from usage by anti-gay groups that the connotation of the term is that “same sex attraction” is anomalous and superficial, rather than a fundamental part of the way a person forms interpersonal bonds.

          4. Midnighter 10 Dec 2013, 7:39pm

            @Guglielmo

            Thank you, that is an excellent example! Its very easy to see that the phrase is being used in that context as though “same sex attraction” were a condition or disorder as you say, especially in the way it is abbreviated to give the impression that this is an established thing.

            I stand corrected / educated :P

          5. marshlander 11 Dec 2013, 10:08am

            I grew up in the Mormon cult and during my teen years in the 1970s was frequently made to listen to church leaders explain to the faithful that there is no such noun as “homosexuality”, only homosexual acts; that people who indulged in the “lusts of the flesh” with their own sex were on a pathway that led only to misery and destruction; that people “afflicted with same-sex attraction” were incapable of loving another person and that if parents were to discover that a son of theirs were so afflicted it would be better that they tied a millstone round his neck and dropped him in the great Salt Lake. This hateful rhetoric made an impression on me, but I am afraid you will only have my anecdote as I don’t have the heart or the strength to go back and find the quotes.

            Mormons like to see themselves as mainstream, but they are as deluded and hateful a cult as many others. My brother was proud to admit that he campaigned for Proposition 8 in California. Very ugly.

          6. @marshlander
            Thanks for sharing that – you have my every sympathy. I honestly hadn’t come across this phenomenon before (but then I don’t associate with evangelical Christians).

            I think South Park already said everything that needs to be said about Mormonism :P

  15. Extremely worrying that people like this lobby our government. Norman Tebbit and Nadine Dorries are known offenders for working with them.

  16. soapbubblequeen 9 Dec 2013, 8:15pm

    These people should be banned by the Charity Commission as a ‘charity’. What kind of twisted logic allows the CC to grant them status and legitimacy as a charity. They should be banned on the grounds that they are promoting hatred of others based on their sexual orientation. That ugly bronzed stretched C0W should be put out to pasture.

    1. Carlos Right 15 Dec 2013, 1:23am

      Bigot!

  17. Perhaps we should petition to outlaw penile-vaginamy if these “Christian ” penile-vaginamite’s are going to insist on forcing their specific sexual interests upon those of us who are just not interested.

  18. Why are these people called “Christian Conservatives” and not simply “Christians”? They are right. Throughout its history, the Christian Church has persecuted homosexuals and Christian Concern is just carrying on that tradition. The Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury are worse, by appearing to be more reasonable, yet still vehemently opposing advances like gay marriage, gay adoption etc

    1. They are more properly Christian dominionist’s and they would ultimately like to see democracy and government replaced with an intolerant and strict Christian theocracy that would impose an extreme form of Christianity upon everyone, other religions would be outlawed.

  19. “The lack of a father” as a cause for homosexuality should mean that most black men are Gay. Is this the case, Jamaica?

    1. Cal,
      I was going to comment on the ridiculous outdated theory dominant mother/weak-absent father/gay son / always forgetting women exist and are gay too. But you saitd it all beautifully.
      Are they?

    2. I bet you wish they were

    3. marshlander 11 Dec 2013, 10:16am

      Maybe the theory has legs after all! Jamaica does seem to be the home of rather a lot of extremely homophobic people and we all know what that means …

  20. People need to complain to the bar standards board too about Andreas comments. Her views are damaging the profession and bringing it into disrepute, and to be honest I don’t know of another profession that would tolerate that sort of behaviour. Maybe if enough complained some disciplinary proceedings would be brought against her? Just a thought

  21. This Peter guy – Barbara or whatever she calls herself – has a very gay face.

    That is all.

  22. If Chistian Concern is a charity ….. why? They are indulging in politics. Surely that must b in breach of any charitable status? We should be lobbying MP’s to investigate.

    1. Christian Dominion’ism.
      ”How to Participate in a Political Party and Rule the world for God.
      Give the impression that you are there to work for the party, not push an ideology. Hide your strength. Don’t flaunt your Christianity. Christians need to take leadership positions. Party officers control political parties and so it is very important that mature Christians have a majority of leadership positions whenever possible, God willing.”
      —Pat Robertson

  23. “Buggery” is derogatory legal terminology of long standing for anal sex, a “bugger” is one who engages in the act of “buggery”.
    Is there an equivalently derogatory legal term for the penile-vaginal sex act and for those who engage in the penile-vaginal sex act?
    “Penile-vagina’my” is an attempt at finding an equivalently sneering and disapproving term for penile-vaginal sex …purely for the sake of parity.
    A “penile-vagina’mite” might be any person who engages in the “penile-vaginal” sex act just as any person who engages in anal or oral sex acts or who engages in sex acts with animals might be called a “sodomite”.

  24. “She also said in her speech that Jamaica should turn down aid from countries in the US and Europe, in favour of fighting against the repeal of the law.”

    Some hope.

    1. The point is – why the f**k are we GIVING aid to homophobic countries like Jamaica? I REALLY object to my tax money going to support a nation which would have me killed. What insane nonsense IS this? Would we be giving money to a country which still operates apartheid?

      1. Jamaica does operate apartheid, sexual apartheid where it persecutes and segregates LGBT .

  25. “Tom Daley is in a relationship with a man because his father died”!

    By the above assertion these people have demonstrated, ABSOLUTELY, that they are loons, i.e. seriously mentally ill, i.e. suffering from serious irrationality and delusions.

    In a really just world, they would be forcibly taken into care and treated with concentrated mental-health care.

    1. Christopher Shell 28 Dec 2013, 1:58pm

      The connection she draws is a different one. There will undoubtedly be an older-man hole in his life after his father died. There would be for anyone. It is not just a ‘relationship’ with *any* man she is referring to but specifically one with an older man.

  26. Funny how someone preaching this kind of bullsh*t about their religion would be considered “hate speech”, but they can get away with attacking whole sections of society with their fantasy book.

    I’m sorry I have to say it again, but to all “moderate Christians” who might be reading this, this is why I despise your beliefs and why I treat you all the same unless proven otherwise.

    These are the people dragging your religion through the sewer, and if you sit back and ignore it you will be viewed in the same way by me and many millions more who immediately associate hatred and bigotry with religious insanity.

    I personally think the UK, US and Europe should take the lead here, end aid and assistance to these governments until they catch up with the modern world and stop attacking minorities based on religious insanity. We should not be aiding hatred and religious insanity like this anywhere.

    1. Paul Halsall 13 Dec 2013, 4:27pm

      I think God loves gay people, and loves gay couples. I am Catholic and want to see gay marriage in my church. Meanwhile, I am happy same sex civil marriage will begin in 16 weeks.

      I sincerely believe Jesus loves gay people, blessed the union of the Centurion and his “Pais”.

  27. Evil scum. May the Lord Satan trample them under His cloven hooves, the God-bothering twunts

  28. Beelzeebub 10 Dec 2013, 1:26pm

    Why is it that these people on first mention of gay couples “IMMEDIATELY” think of the sexual acts.

    Personally, when I meet a heterosexual or gay couple, the last thing to spring to mind is what they do with each others squishy bits.

    There is clearly some internal sexual repression issues going on within these people that should receive psychiatric help.

    And we all know that we can thank religion for screwing them up psychologically as kids.

    1. You have absolutely nailed the primary driver of homophobia. Why are SOME people homophobic while others couldn’t give a monkey’s? Homophobes are obsessed with gay sex because that’s the suppressed desire with which they are battling. They project their self-hatred onto those who openly accent that sexuality. The bigger the closet case the greater the homophobe. And these people are drawn to religion because that reinforces the self-loathing.

  29. ParisFrance 10 Dec 2013, 1:32pm

    The thing about her is that she isn’t just a nutter from a nutter group, she’s also a member of lay governing body of the Church of England, General Synod. God alone knows who voted her on, but another useful thing that you could do is tweet the link to @c_of_e – and possibly also the Church’s comms person @RevArun pointing out what a terrible advertisment she is for their faith. It’s not necessarily their fault that she’s on General Synod – that’ll be the lay people who voted for her, or the lay people who didn’t bother to vote at all, and therefore got hijacked by zealots. But it might concentrate everyone’s minds about what sort of people they want to represent the church, when the next round of General Synod elections happen in 2015.

  30. Oh! I do wish they’d stop calling it buggery, sodomy etc. It sounds awful. And these bigots seem to think that’s all gay men think about. Same sex relationships are about love and respect as well as sex. Just like ‘straight’ couples in fact. More so probably.

    1. Its MEANT to sound ‘awful’ Jessie.

  31. I think the reason why some people relate ‘gay’ to what we do in bed is because the only time people of a certain age heard about gay men in media was when it was illegal and someone was convicted of indecent acts or whatever it was called. so it was the ‘acts’ which were focused on. maybe now we are being represented as just people this will begin to change. especially when the older generation are slowly dying off!

  32. GHOST worshipers area waste of space…they wanna live in a world with NO non heterosexuals? then they need to start off’n themselves one by one and visit their GHOST they so desire to stand next to…PERIOD!
    http://getoffmydress.blogspot.com/2013/12/textnsextnperplexnoh-my.html

  33. Jay Hayes-Light 10 Dec 2013, 5:40pm

    Here we go again, the genius of the so called christian (?) concern declare their wisdom on several fronts: the causes of homosexuality, so-called ‘gender confusion’ and a host of other matters they do not have the grey matter to really understand. Their bible is the much criticised King James translation (from the Greek, originally complied in haste by the Catholic priest Erasmus). Full of errors, the Erasmus edition has been called the most poorly edited volume in all of literature. So what? You may say. However, the importance of recognising the source of any bigotry cannot be dismissed, since many of these christian bigots use the text to persuade the masses into believing that millions of people are sinners who go against God’s word. In certain countries (think Africa) this may mean death for those who appear to transgress. Next time someone quotes the bible to condemn homosexuality, ask them what version they draw their ‘wisdom’ from.

    1. Midnighter 11 Dec 2013, 4:44pm

      Well said. I can’t begin to count the times I’ve faced stunned silence when I’ve merely raised the topic with Christians about the validity of their preferred translation. It is an issue that many of them haven’t even considered, which for me merely underlines how religious faith relies on brainwashing and suppressing critical thought.

      I frequently refer to http://queenjamesbible.com/ if someone tells me “it says in THE bible … ” as though there was just one definitive work.

    2. Christopher Shell 28 Dec 2013, 1:56pm

      Only a minority of Christians use that particular translation, which as you say has its ideological faults. I’m pretty sure AMW would not use that translation. There are about 30 Bible translations current in English.

  34. Keith Farrell 10 Dec 2013, 5:51pm

    I am sorry I don’t think these Christians should be left alone, as soon as they return to the UK they should be arrested for crimes against humanity, or at least given over to us gay people so that we can teach them a good lesson. These F£$%^&g Christians follow a false god. They only use some passages from the bible. I wish that Christianity was taxed as a business because that is all they are, a business serving hate and murder. They don’t follow the bible. The3se people need a good solid slap

  35. We should deport these people to Russia.

    1. I think they should be sent on a one way trip to a penile colony on Uranus, it would be so tough surviving there that they’d have no time to meddle in other people’s relationships.

  36. I hope that real Christians understand that creating such “religious” organizations is the first order of business on the evil forces’ agenda. Just look at this woman she’s
    a demon recruited to do the evil job.

  37. “She also said in her speech that Jamaica should turn down aid from countries in the US and Europe, in favour of fighting against the repeal of the law.”
    I translate: KEEP THE PEOPLE POOR AND IGNORANT SO WE CAN BETTER MANIPULATE THEM.
    This bitch should move to Jamaica and fight overthere to maintain in this way.

  38. Paul Halsall 13 Dec 2013, 4:24pm

    Thesse people are sick.

  39. Helen Kalmár 19 Dec 2013, 6:48pm

    Buggery is not gay sex, it is anal sex and a man and a woman can choose buggery too. Animals can commit to buggery. The biggest sinners in this world are the Christians so please leave everyone else out. Persons who form a same sex relationship have sex just like persons who choose to be with the opposite sex.

  40. NickDavisGB 19 Dec 2013, 7:08pm

    Tom, if you read these comments, don’t descend to her level and get into a public slanging match. Enjoy your love.

  41. Gene in L.A. 19 Dec 2013, 8:06pm

    These “christians” are doing the work of their devil, attempting to spread hatred and intolerance throughout the world. I don’t know whether they’re deluded, believing in what they do and honestly believing “god” is against gays, or they’re clear-eyed, spreading unreason and hatred for some unknown purpose of their own. Either way, they’re doing the work of the devil.

  42. Techiechick 20 Dec 2013, 1:11am

    She sounds like that woman in “But I’m a cheer leader” convincing gay men and woman they have a “root” and that is why they are gay because of something their parents done or didn’t do.

  43. Dr Christopher Shell 28 Dec 2013, 1:53pm

    Is it incorrect or correct to say that the age-consent law is rarely enforced? You don’t mention which.
    On the ‘born not made’ thing, people are only referring to very large discrepancies between homosexual and heterosexual in the following matters: college-educated or not (for girls), urban or not (for guys), experience of abuse or molestation (for all these, Laumann 1994); degree of disinclination of identical twins to co-identify as gay with their gay identical twin; degree of fluidity of sexual preference in teen years..
    If anyone wants to claim that legalisation causes more harm than good then that is a complex empirical question, and people obviously don’t know the answer to it in advance of having researched the matter at all. She is probably taking the stance she does because the AIDS epidemic broke out shortly after legalisation, and therefore probably partly or perhaps even largely as a result of it. This is a particularly large piece of evidence – yet you want to censor it?

  44. White squirrel 29 Jan, 9:22pm

    it must be loony week for making random non sequiters
    ‘Jamaica should keep its law cos Daley’s father died’
    and
    donkey marriage as a legal defence for derailing a train
    maybe its something in the flood water ?

  45. white squirrel 29 Jan, 9:36pm

    Mark Y says

    ‘Her reasoning just doesn’t make sense’

    if she had any reasoning ability she would not believe in ‘god’

    also
    Why is it that these people on first mention of gay couples “IMMEDIATELY” think of the sexual acts.

    perhaps in her case because her mind dwells on phallic imagery too much
    either from over indulgance or a total lack of it

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