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Croatia: 65% of voters approve same-sex marriage ban

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  1. If this passes, Croatia should be expelled from the EU.

    1. Bobbleobble 1 Dec 2013, 9:49pm

      There are already five EU members that ban SSM constitutionally, Croatia will be the sixth. The EU clearly doesn’t care about this.

      1. Euan Davidson 2 Dec 2013, 9:12am

        Its not fair to say the EU doesn’t care about this it has absolutely no say in the matter ssm is retained by the member states, the EU is only allowed to comment on things it has responsobility for.

      2. de Villiers 2 Dec 2013, 9:29am

        It may be outside the competence of the EU as defined by the treaties.

    2. Robert in S. Kensington 2 Dec 2013, 11:01am

      We all wish that were possible but the ECHR has already said that regarding equal marriage, it won’t interfere nor does it consider it a human right.

  2. This makes me so angry.

    Not only Croatia, though also of course, but the entire EU is here at fault. We (LGBTQ* folk) are pretty much the only group for which it is left up to the member states how we are treated. Given, there is some basic protection but various member states grant zero recognition to same-sex relationships, various gender identities and queer parenting. And the EU is just fine with that, all in the name of religious freedom of course as that is what it comes down to. Luckily religion is not a choice where your gender identity and/or sexual orientation is (for the not so smart among you: this was sarcasm).

    This just really really makes me angry and so sad.

    It’s crazy enough one nation is against any protection and/or rights but the way the EU is dealing with this issue and its member states is beyond anything and even more a signal of how much of a battle we still have to fight. I ‘understand’ no recognition at all better than this joke the EU pulls off.

    1. de Villiers 2 Dec 2013, 9:31am

      I am not sure that this is within the measure of competence of the EU as defined by the treaties. There are regulations to prevent discrimination in the provision of goods and services but I cannot think of any regulations relating to the same sex marriage. I think also that the ECHR has stated that not having gay marriage is not a breach of the European Convention of Human Rights although it is a breach not to recognise some form of civil partnerships.

      1. Member states have the freedom now whether or not to recognise same-sex couples and families headed by them. If I get it right, I think you can sum it up like this: queer individuals are protected by the EU (can’t be a valid reason to be denied anything) but the protection/recognition of relationships and parenting are left up to the states. Basically, it’s fine to be gay but only in some places it is fine to act on being gay. Everything regarding gender identities is a whole other story btw, way less protection.

        Anyway, you’re right with the treaties and such but that is where it goes wrong. Imagine the EU saying that women may be treated differently according to each member state’s preferences. Or ethnic minorities, or specific religious groups… would never happen but for us. That’s my point. And what I loathe is that the EU pretends not to discriminate while it is blatantly obvious.

        1. de Villiers 2 Dec 2013, 1:38pm

          > Anyway, you’re right with the treaties and such but that is where it goes wrong. Imagine the EU saying that women may be treated differently according to each member state’s preferences. Or ethnic minorities, or specific religious groups… would never happen but for us. That’s my point. And what I loathe is that the EU pretends not to discriminate while it is blatantly obvious.
          .
          The EU does not say that. In fact, it does not say anything about it. To loathe the EU for not having competence in a particular area is odd. It is not a European government.

          1. Well actually it does, it impacts the “free movement directive”, and this is recognised, although it is not being given the sunlight it requires or deserves.
            [Also,"sexual orientation discrimination" is directly mentioned in the EU Charter of Rights.]
            Although marriage specifically, is not at issue, the recognition of the legal rights of marriage or civil unions (the next of kin implications and the status of children in those legal relationships) impacts directly the free movement of labour within the EU member states, and the non- recognition of legal next of kin relationships negatively impacts on that free movement directive!!

          2. de Villiers 3 Dec 2013, 12:08am

            You are looking for EU rights where they do not exist. The free movement of workers is an economic instrument, not one of social policy.

  3. A nation of troglodytes. Now we have the proof.

  4. It’s a shame, but Croatia wasn’t about to legalize SSMs anyway, so this is merely sybolic. They’ll revert it back when the time comes, I’d say some 10-15 years. I suspect that by that time most of Europe will have marriage equality, the rest will have no choice but to follow.

    1. I’d argue it is a bit more than symbolic as this means a constitutional change. That does not mean it is final but granting a right that does not exist or amending an existing law is a whole lot easier than amending the constitution again generally (not sure about the specifics of Croatia but there tends to be a reason why all these religious fruitcakes want constitutions to be amended so badly…). In 10 years time Croatia may well be ready for equal marriage but the question is what it will take to have the constitution amended again. Getting something in there may also be easier than getting something out of it again.

      As I noted above, what I also find very disturbing is that this remains possible within the EU let alone how this must feel for Croatian LGBTQ* folk, especially youth.

  5. Croatias human rights record during WWII and the Yugoslav war, makes this result a no surprise

  6. Another place not to visit and country whose products I shall be boycotting.

    1. .....Paddyswurds 8 Dec 2013, 8:42pm

      You meabn they actually produce something in that backward hole. Donkey carts and religious hatred is all I thought they produced. Can someone make a list of what they produce so we can boycott the homophobic assh0les….

  7. soapbubble 1 Dec 2013, 10:35pm

    The majority of them are poorly educated peasants brainwashed by rwligious claptrap. So no surprises!

  8. Something doesn’t stack up in this report. With a population of ca. 4.2m people, 700,000 votes does not equal 65% of the total population.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 2 Dec 2013, 1:36am

      No, it most certainly doesn’t it, but then it’s the oppressive Catholic cult responsible for it.

    2. Robert in S. Kensington 2 Dec 2013, 11:03am

      Well, it was 65% of those who voted (700,000).

  9. This is the Croatian Tourist Board. Perhaps civilised, intelligent countries should let them know what we think of their back
    ward s**t hole.
    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CBcQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcroatia.hr%2Fen-GB%2FHomepage&ei=QdabUtyOC4TKhAfRjYGIDg&usg=AFQjCNF49XZf9uSXbGKMJK7SRy_F8_8WJQ

    1. Croatia is stunningly beautiful, there may be an infestation of religious turds there who are intent on spoiling the place and the peace but Croatia and it’s landscape, towns and buildings, it’s coastline, it’s many islands and pellucid waters are breathtakingly beautiful, making it a huge draw for holidaymakers.
      Croatia itself cannot meaningfully be described as a s**t hole

      1. Oh please. Surely it was clear I meant their backwards mentality? Meanwhile, I don’t care if it’s Never Never Land. NOTHING – I repeat NOTHING – would ever get me to visit and I’m a little surprised that you would even attempt to extol the virtues of such a disgustingly homophobic place. Like telling me to put Russia and Jamaica on my bucket list. Pah! Until the country grow-ups and shakes off the pathetic, childish shackles of their 17th century deference for religion, I’ll be urging everyone I know to boycott the place and anything it exports.

  10. anamellie 2 Dec 2013, 1:15am

    A Croatian here, hello. As much as it hurts me to say, yes, most of the people have shown that they are in fact brainwashed by religious craptalk. Only two regions voted against and only a handful of larger cities had over 50% of people voting against. And for the people who were against this campaign and referendum, today we grieve because our land is beautiful, but the state and people are so far away from that. However, our somewhat more liberal government is pushing a new law, which would allow for same-sex couples to have more rights than they currently do. But, yeah, today we turned our Constitution into a dictionary just because we apparently could. :(
    Also, the EU leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to regulating what each of the member countries does with laws concerning LGBTQ folk, so no, Croatia won’t and shouldn’t be expelled for this, after all, the pressure coming from there might be the only thing stopping us from becoming 15th century version of ourselves.

    1. Kathryn Leigh 2 Dec 2013, 4:02am

      In that case how long is it going to be before the child abuse scandals start to surface in your beautiful country. Given the almost pervasive universality of this within the catholic cult I cannot believe that Croatia has escaped this despicable fate!

    2. I agree with both yours and Kathryn’s comments.

      But Croatia is a very beautiful place as you say, the coast and the amazing towns are beyond compare, just such a shame that the Caholics and Evangelicals with whom they are happy to collude with (in matters anti-gay anyway) have such an ugly stranglehold.
      I’m sure there will be more religious child abuse scandals to come out, the church mafia is already working with it’s placemen within the state to create a disliked minority to blame everything on. Filthy aerosoles,

      Probably the best defence is talking about it on the internet, people begin to see through the time honored tactic of blaming the scapegoat when the scapegoat has a voice, and that’s also why they have gagging laws in Russia, to stop the convenient gay scapegoats from exposing what’s happening to them there.

      Putin must be a very weak and scared man at the moment, why else would he be lashing out at a vulnerable minority and encouraging others to do the same.

  11. Robert in S. Kensington 2 Dec 2013, 1:35am

    Of course, is it no wonder that the culprit in all this is the Roman Catholic cult which dominates Croatian society and which promoted the referendum? Evil incarnate.

    1. Sebastian Pinder 2 Dec 2013, 2:04am

      Stop blaming the Church the people voted, and the voice of the majority was heard that is democracy.

      1. Religious discrimination, and enshrining the doctrines of your church in the laws everyone has to follow, is against the principles and basic tenents of religious freedom.
        The ECHR and the EU charter of rights (which explicitly states there should be no discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation or sex) both specify freedom of religion, and from the religion of others.
        I know the catholic heirarchy do not believe in religious freedom, and have the arrogance to want to impose their religion on everyone they come in contact with, but I hoped the people of Croatia had more sense than to impose their religion on everyone else by law, especially since they have in doing so violated basic Human Rights and Equality.
        This ballot is the most biased and strangely worded I have ever come across, recently, given that, does it leave latitude for interpretation? How can this be binding? A sad day for LGBTI Croatians

        1. de Villiers 2 Dec 2013, 9:51am

          > The ECHR and the EU charter of rights (which explicitly states there should be no discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation or sex) both specify freedom of religion, and from the religion of others.
          .
          That is a bit right but not all right. Article 14 does prohibit discrimination but only in relation to the rights to be secured in the convention itself. It says this:
          .
          The enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set forth in this Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status.

      2. Bobbleobble 2 Dec 2013, 8:35am

        It’s not democracy when a huge majority dictate the rights if a tiny minority, that’s called the tyranny of the majority and there’s nothing democratic about it. This was gay bashing at the ballot box, pure and simple.

        And like it or not the grubby fingers of the Catholic cult are all over what happened yesterday.

  12. “Do you agree that marriage is matrimony between a man and a woman”

    Same trick that the anti-equality Coalition for Marriage tried here in UK, instead of asking,
    “Do you agree that marriage equality should be banned”

    The anti-equality “religious” aerosoles are working to a shared set script we see again and again, they distort and lie and ask misleading questions to trick voters into supplying the answers they want.

    1. “Same sex marriage destroys the institution of marriage”

      “Marriage is a public demonstration of a commitment between two individuals. In the USA where many of the arguments around gay marriage are occurring, the estimated probability of divorce for heterosexual marriages is between 40 to 50%. This would suggest to me that the biggest threat to the institution of marriage is not from same-sex marriages, but from the failure of existing heterosexual marriages.”

      http://sciblogs.co.nz/molecular-matters/2012/03/18/stupid-arguments-against-same-sex-marriage/

  13. It was said above that Croatia makes six EU countries that have this discrimination in their basic law (constitution).
    One of those is Eire, which has started a process to change it and enact Equal Marriage. Others are Poland, Hungary, Latvia , Lithuania. (Hungary put this discrimination in their constitution last year!!)
    No surprises there then.

    1. bobbleobble 2 Dec 2013, 8:38am

      Oops, that makes seven, I forgot Ireland. The other is Bulgaria.

      1. Oooops from me too. I did research it before writing the above and missed Bulgaria, one of the more recent countries which has been in the news recently with Romania as they both join the free-movement within the EU in January. Croatia only acceding to membership in June this year will not have that privilege for some time yet.
        The free movement directive is impacted by EU countries which do not have equal rights for LGBT persons, and can have quite serious consequences for same-sex married couples wanting to holiday or work in those countries who are married or in a civil union if the country does not recognise their marriage or legal relationship and they are involved in an accident or other tragedy.

  14. GingerlyColors 2 Dec 2013, 7:13am

    A sad day for LGBT people in Croatia. I just hope that the people of Ireland show more sense when they have their referendum on marriage equality. Human rights issues shouldn’t be put to a popular vote anyway and I would dare countries like Croatia to hold a referendum on whether or not to ban mix race and inter-religious marriages. If any country did they would incur the wrath of both the EU and the European Court Of Human Rights so why should gay people be exempted from the same legal protections?

  15. “Furthermore, religious opponents of homosexuality have often claimed that it involves a promiscuous ‘lifestyle’, yet in the same breath, they want to prevent access to the institution that most strongly celebrates (and props up) a monogamous union. But then who said religion had to be consistent, anyway?”

    http://sciblogs.co.nz/molecular-matters/2012/03/18/stupid-arguments-against-same-sex-marriage/

  16. “The organisation U ime obitelji (In the Name of the Family), gathered enough signatures to force a referendum on whether to ban equal marriage.”

    Gay marriage threatens ‘the family’
    I’ve never quite managed to work this one out. Would posses of gay man roam suburbia, breaking into houses to bake quiches and redecorate living rooms while singing the theme songs from Hollywood musicals? (Sorry, had to throw in the stupid stereotypes at some stage).
    Or perhaps opponents are scared that they will no longer be able to voice their bigoted views, and that their children will see same-sex relationships as equal and healthy, and part of normal life. Heaven forbid one of their children might pursue such a relationship. After all it would be much better for a gay/lesbian child to kill themselves or live a life of undeserved shame and guilt, wouldn’t it?

    http://sciblogs.co.nz/molecular-matters/2012/03/18/stupid-arguments-against-same-sex-marriage/

  17. Cardinal Fang 2 Dec 2013, 9:52am

    If that’s the question they asked, as in the article, then it wasn’t a vote to ban gays com getting married, but a skewed question about the status quo.

    1. Yes, a deliberately misleading question, even I would agree with it because marriage is matrimony between a man and a woman presently and it will still be even where marriage equality is introduced, it just won’t be exclusively between an opposite sex couple but marriage will also between a couple who are the same sex.

  18. Another place I will never visit.

  19. This shows that the current bigoted scumbag in the vatican and his nasty followers (who campaigned fully for this) are no different from the previous bigoted scumbag in the vatican and his nasty followers.

  20. Bill Cameron 2 Dec 2013, 11:23am

    Of course Croatia didn’t dare to pass this kind of law pre-accession to the EU. Now that it is in the EU it will be very difficult, probably impossible, to do anything much about it – the EU has consistently proved itself to be unwilling to confront issues like this. Sickening!

  21. The cause – Religion – Croatia is plagued with this brutally ignorant superstition, & until it’s population can evolve out of the dark ages – this defunked contract of matrimony – will only support a man & a woman…… what backward nonsense!

  22. This referendum should never have taken place in the first place! Majorities should not legislate on the rights of miniroities. In Costa Rica in 2010 fundamentalist evangelicals proposed a similar referendum on civil partnerships. In repsonse on August 10, 2010, the Supreme Court in Costa Rica declared unconstitutional the organization of such a referendum. The court concluded that same-sex couples constitute a minority group with disadvantages which are currently subject to discrimination and that allowing a referendum regarding their rights will expose them to the risk of having non-gay majority limiting their rights and increasing their discrimination. The EU should take action on this as it contravenes the principal of igual rights for all people and entrenches discrimination and violence that lead to hate crimes.

  23. I am very sad. Croatia became an EU country and with that the coutry committed the “resemble” the EU.
    I believe that all people in EU, tourists especially, should boycott Croatian Adriatic coast next year!
    It is not normal to discriminate lgbt population, and on other hand to call them to visit your country.

  24. These are still promising figures. 10 years ago people would be joking about gay-marriages in Croatia, and this shows that today there are (many) people out there who do support it. The Catholic church showed that it isn’t as strong as it was, and will only get weaker. This is but a battle, we’ve already won the war…

    1. i was being facetious of course!

  25. .....Paddyswurds 8 Dec 2013, 8:37pm

    I have a feeling it will change in a year or two when the pink pound/éuro dries up and rightly so. However If they do change their minds they should be told stick it. We don’t want to visit your homophobic hole of a flea pit country anyway!!

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