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UK Parliament to debate gay ‘cure’ therapies next week

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  1. What is there to debate?

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 13 Nov 2013, 7:07pm

      Probably because they have to consider the religious sensitivities of the bigoted loons who believe it’s a matter of religious freedom, a violation of their rights. I’d like to see who among the Tories who opposed equal marriage are going to support the measure to ban it. The usual suspects probably won’t, i.e. Burrowes, Loughton, Gale, Howarth, Bone, Baldry, Drax, David Davies, Dorries et al.

      1. Fundamentalist “Christian” Dominionism.
        Here is another perspective from Gary North…

        “So let us be blunt about it: We must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will be get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order WHICH FINALLY DENIES THE RELIGIOUS LIBERTY OF THE ENEMIES OF GOD

        They will utilise the of idea religious freedom to get to a place of power and once there (if ever) they plan to deny religious freedom and freedom of belief to anyone who does not belong to their cult

    2. Julian Morrison 13 Nov 2013, 7:20pm

      Whether to regulate the currently unregulated counselling industry. That would be a precondition to setting standards such as “don’t pass off superstitious claptrap as counselling”.

      1. There’s a lot of debate within the counselling/psychotherapy arena as to whether regulation would be actually be beneficial since there are so many different types of counselling and varying levels/routes of accreditation.

        Even if all counsellors/therapists were part of an accrediting organisation, do any of us think that bigoted religious fundamentalists would stop? They’d probably rephrase ‘reparative’ counselling into a talking/consultation type of encounter which unless being done by an accredited counsellor would be very difficult to police. The two largest accrediting organisations for Counsellors (BACP & UKCP) have both now firmly prohibited ‘reparative’ therapy (and many years too late in my opinion) so it’s unlikely that their counsellors would risk being struck off by participating in this disgusting behaviour.

        It’s a moot point whether the vulnerable clients for whom the legislation is proposed would have the access or knowledge to complain/report it either…

      2. Julian. Would you be shocked to know that therapy to affirm someone’s sexuality has no research to support it, and that amongst the “proofs” of its success are frequent, unprotected casual sex, drug taking, engaging in extreme BDSM practices most of which of which appear in the accepted tests as evidence for psychological harm. Would it surprise you to know that in the US court system there are currently sworn affidavits from leading psychologists and psychiatrists to state that this type of therapy is not “superstitious claptrap” but sound therapy based on research. Details of all this has been passed to the “Political Correct” MPs who want to breach human rights in the name of so called “equality”.

        1. Guglielmo Marinaro 15 Nov 2013, 10:07am

          Phelim, would you be shocked to know that there is no research at all demonstrating the beneficial effects of encouraging heterosexual people to regard their sexuality as natural and healthy? Would you be shocked to realise that there is a clear difference between affirming someone’s natural sexuality, whether that be heterosexual or homosexual, and approving or encouraging any irresponsible behaviour in which they might at any time be tempted to engage? Would you be shocked to know that no-one is adducing frequent, unprotected casual sex, drug taking, or extreme BDSM practices as “proofs” of the success of therapy? Would it surprise you to know that, while there are maverick psychiatrists and psychologists who dissent, both the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association officially advise against therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation, and that the evidence for the effectiveness of such “therapy” is extremely poor?

        2. Guglielmo Marinaro 15 Nov 2013, 6:29pm

          Also, Phelim, let us consider Dr Joseph Nicolosi, America’s foremost exponent of so-called “reparative therapy” for homosexuals and co-founder of NARTH (National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality). Perhaps he is one of your unnamed “leading psychologists”?

          In 2011 Nicolosi wrote via e-mail to Alan Chambers (president of the now thankfully defunct “ex-gay” umbrella organization Exodus International), saying: “The point Alan is that you can get to a place where there is no more homosexuality. Really. … We have the therapeutic tools to get you over what ever SSA [‘same-sex attraction’] is remaining.”

          Would it surprise you to know that, in a subsequent e-mail to Chambers, Nicolosi back-tracked on this? In July 2012 he wrote in an e-mail to Chambers: “I have never said I could cure someone completely from homosexuality. All my books make it quite clear that homosexual attractions will persist to some degree throughout a person’s lifetime.”

    3. I know Max, it’s as unacceptable as debating whether or not gay people should face the death penalty.

      What is wrong with these anti-gay people is that they want to force their twisted religious beliefs about sin and repentance upon everyone else and especially upon gay people and they really want the law to back and assist them in doing it, for them the end justifies the means, smears, lies and distortion of facts is their chosen method of operation.
      Anglican Mainstream still links to horrific anti-gay propaganda “The Truth About Homosexuality” as resource material, it also links to gay cure and conversion organisations.

  2. Robert in S. Kensington 13 Nov 2013, 7:02pm

    About time. I contacted Geraint Davies several weeks to find out if Jeremy Hunt had responded but didn’t receive any reply. It will be interesting to see who the cross-party supporters are.

  3. Could they discuss a ‘religious cure therapy’ too? So many of the world’s ills could be sorted if they could find one …..

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 13 Nov 2013, 7:52pm

      Totally agree with that! Long overdue.

    2. When a group of any kind attempts to force its theology on a populace as a whole and then legislate it – that is theocracy.

    3. Colin (Queenstown) 14 Nov 2013, 7:19am

      Now there is a worthy cause…well said.

  4. WHY aren’t psychotherapists regulated?!

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 13 Nov 2013, 7:52pm

      Julian’s comment above might explain that to some extent.

  5. Christian Drs should all be struck off if they try and force their beliefs on others no one who believes in Freedom and Equality should go to a Christian Dr they are definitely prejudiced and treat gays like dog poo

  6. They’ve tried killing us, torturing us, imprisoning us, chemical castrating us, ECT’ing us, now they want to try and talk and pray to stop us being who we are.

    FFS when are these bigots going to learn that you can’t ‘cure’ someone from being gay, even if the gay Man or Woman has been made to believe they are sick.

    1. Know what you are up against regarding fundamentalist “Christians”

      A WORKING DEFINITION of DOMINIONISM
      The belief that we (mankind) have made a mandate to build the “Kingdom of God” on earth, by restoring paradise, by progressively and supernaturally transforming ourselves and all societal institutions, through subduing and ruling the earth by whatever means possible, including using technology, science and psycho-social engineering: and then and only then will “Christ” manifest his presence on earth.

    2. Helge Vladimir Tiller 14 Nov 2013, 1:09am

      And LOBOTOMY ! I would like to be present and take part in this debate. —or maybe not ; My blood pressure could raise to an extreme level. ANGER ! Worst of all : Christians say that love is the superior quality of man . Still they want to deny LGBTQ people this ability. THAT MUST BE THE WORST SIN ON EARTH ! No logic at all. Have they got brains ?

  7. Mike Davidson, Core Issues Trust 14 Nov 2013, 12:23pm

    I wonder how much “debate” there will be at this event? I’d be happy to come and represent the position of therapists standing with those wanting, after informed consent, to move away from homosexual practices and feelings (assuming this is a debate). Are the organisers also going to let us actually see the text of this Bill that still doesn’t appear on the government website – despite it being at 2nd reading stage?

    1. If you are Mike Davidson, from the Core Issues Trust, you are not a therapist.

      Your registration was revoked your membership and you were removed from your professional registration body.

  8. Please could I point out that the APAs report does NOT discredit this type of therapy. All they state is that there is not enough evidence to show that these therapies either work OR that they are harmful. Could I also point out that to ban this type of therapy would be a major breach of human rights, including the UN Declaration of Human Rights, the EU Convention of Human Rights, the statement by the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (that the UK is a member of) that a client has the right to choose this type of therapy. That this type of therapy has the support of a number of past presidents of both the American Psychological Association and American Psychiatric Association, as well as members of the Royal Colleges of Psychiatry in the UK, Canada and Australia – all of whom declare that any ban on this type of therapy would be based on political correctness NOT scientific research. And no, science does not prove that people are born gay but that sexuality is fluid.

    1. We might believe that when unwanted heterosexual urges are addressed by the same therapy providers. Until then we must assume that conversion therapies or gay cure therapies are based in anti-gay animus and prejudice and thus exist for the benefit or furthering the aims of the anti-gay practitioner or organisation providing the therapy rather than for the benefit of the potential patient/victim.

    2. Guglielmo Marinaro 14 Nov 2013, 3:54pm

      Phelim, certainly the APA report does not claim that it has been proved that “therapy” to change sexual orientation never works. But that isn’t saying much. You could say the same about any quack therapy. What the APA report has concluded, and I quote verbatim, is:

      “That the American Psychological Association concludes that there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation;” and

      “That the American Psychological Association encourages mental health professionals to avoid misrepresenting the efficacy of sexual orientation change efforts by promoting or promising change in sexual orientation ….”

      No, science has not proved that people are born gay, or that people are born straight. We still don’t know what determines sexual orientation. Nor has science proved that sexuality in general is fluid. SOME people’s may be; MOST people’s, and particularly most men’s, very definitely is not.

    3. Guglielmo Marinaro 14 Nov 2013, 4:23pm

      Phelim, I agree that to ban this type of therapy FOR ADULTS would be a major breach of human rights. They must be allowed to dabble in this useless “therapy” for a non-illness, just as they are free to go to a chiromantist to have their hands read or to call in a tasseographer to read their tea-leaves. They should be warned, of course, that their chances of sexual orientation change by such means are, at a generous estimate, about the same as their chances of winning the lottery, and that, even if no other direct harm is done, they may later come bitterly to regret wasting precious time – time which will never come again – on a long and demoralizing wild-goose chase. But as Sir Oliver Lodge said, the essence of manhood is to be free, for better or worse free.

      What is important, however, is that this pseudo-therapy should not be provided by genuine health organizations or practitioners, and that it should be illegal to inflict such abusive hocus-pocus on minors.

  9. Will Peter Bone be speaking-or maybe Gerald Howarth- or what about Philip Hammond?

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 14 Nov 2013, 8:18pm

      Bone and Howarth I’ve no doubt will be there, probably not Hammond. David Burrowes I’m sure will be opening his mealy cake-hole in defence of religious freedom. Nadine Dorries is probably another. Won’t surprise me if Sir Edward Leigh is there too as well as Sir Roger Gale. The usual suspects and ringleaders in the equal marriage debate.

  10. I am curious how the Government is going to administer this Law. Almost immediately they came into power, they threw out years of work to bring in statutory regulation of psychotherapists.

    You can already be struck off from every major therapy registration body for offering gay conversion therapy. The issue is that you can set yourself up again and call it psychotherapy, as there is no obligation to be registered.

    The Core Issues Trust who have decided to share their views in these comments have been widely discredited and condemned for their views.

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