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London: Founder of Christian Concern to take part in equal marriage debate

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  1. My headline would be:
    ‘Founder of ultra right wing homophobic religious sect to appear in equal marriage debate.’
    The body text should read:
    ‘There’s no debate, so sod off back to where you came from.’

  2. Robert in S. Kensington 12 Nov 2013, 4:24pm

    I hope someone raises the blatant hypocrisy of this harpie and upholder of ‘traditional’ marriage who never once chided the adultery of Tory MPs who voted against the marriage bill including one of her friends, the harlot Nadine Dorries and her eleven year affair with Bob Blackman who’s wife called her own husband a hypocrite for opposing the bill.

  3. Katiekooleyes 12 Nov 2013, 4:26pm

    Ms Williams said: “This case demonstrates the huge asymmetry and censorship that characterises public debate at the moment. Some people choose not to act on same-sex attraction. They should not be ostracised for doing so but helped, if that is what they choose. Mike Davidson and Core Issues Trust want to help those who experience same-sex attraction but would prefer to change that.”

    Nice of her to plug her own (ludicrous) business ties in her argument *rolls eyes* Also, marriage equality doesn’t mean that if someone is attracted to the same gender, they MUST get married. It gives people the CHOICE to do so, if they wish. A choice WE would like to make, not someone else.

    1. Quote: “Some people choose not to act on same-sex attraction”. Ahhh! So now we’re getting to the CRUX of homophobia! Those who choose not to act on same sex attraction are the most likely to become rabid homophobes. They project their inner-angst outwardly on to those who ARE able to accept their true nature. If ONLY the world could understand WHY homophobes behave the way they do, we could eradicate it. People who are in denial of their true sexuality become homophobes. Is Ms Williams saying she too has struggled with same-sex attraction …..?

  4. Tim Hanafin 12 Nov 2013, 4:34pm

    An educated woman but nevertheless a stupid, stupid, stupid woman.

    1. I think her crappy legal training was provided for free by the US Alliance Defense Fund, they train people up to bring litigation in an attempt to gain privileges for themselves and other fundamentalist Christians. Their ultimate aim would be to abolish democracy and civil law and replace it with fundamentalist Christian religious law.

    2. Jon (Malaysia) 13 Nov 2013, 3:47am

      Respectfully, I would call her well schooled, not educated.

    3. Frank Boulton 13 Nov 2013, 10:40am

      There’s a big difference between “education” and indoctrination. These fundamentalist bigots harp on ad nauseam about the traditional teaching of their churches. The world would be a better place for all, if fewer people were obsessed with teaching and more people were concerned with learning.

    4. Education sometimes fails and nothing guarantees it will be applied intelligently.

  5. I hope one of the other debaters questions Minichiello-Williams about her ultimate aim as a Christian Dominionist to recriminalise homosexuality, to bar gay people from the military and from teachng , to overthrow the government etc.
    Perhaps also someone might ask exactly what links there are between the two organisations she fronts and the US anti-gay Alliance Defense Fund they are modelled upon and that provides training for solicitors at the Christian Legal Centre.

    1. barriejohn 12 Nov 2013, 7:11pm

      And perhaps they might also question her as to where she obtains the funds to finance her activities, as many have wondered about this.

  6. I hope someone on that panel raises the historical fact that Christianity does not own a patent on Marriage.
    I am so sick to death of hearing these religiously defective bigots preaching inaccuracies as a deference of their hatred.

    Marriage WAS NOT INVENTED by Christianity, or any other religious cult. It was being practiced on these lands thousands of years before we were invaded by any outside cult. Pagan groups within these islands had been partnering and holding ceremonies to recognize that long before these twisted religions arrived.

    So, if we really want to start talking about which traditions trump another and which historical practices we should enforce, I think we need to go back as far as we can as a society – meaning we should hold marriage ceremonies within our communities according to the Pagan principles of equality.

    We are, traditionally, a Pagan country. Pagan beliefs are nothing like these ego-centric cults. That’s something I would love to see us get back to.

    1. GulliverUK 12 Nov 2013, 5:37pm

      Very true. The oldest surviving written marriage law is from the Code of Hammurabi, dated 1772 BC, before even the first line of Genesis was written, and it had zero religious beliefs embedded in it. But those thieving Christians nicked stuff from all sorts of other religions, many of the stories, for example. There were dozens of “flood” stories, there were even about half a dozen other “Son of God”, with 12 disciples, who died and rose again, stories before Jesus was even born. The ancient world was full of mystics and self-appointed prophets trying to make a living by preaching – with about as much authenticity and authority as fortune tellers today. If people want to believe in that crap, fine. If it helps you feel like you’re being a better, kinder, more caring human being, go for it. But the moment it impinges on me I’ll be there with my size 14 boots to kick it up the arse :)

      1. Charliej95 12 Nov 2013, 5:50pm

        Maybe a return to pagan values would do the world of good. Far better than having to put up with this far right christian doctrine

        1. It absolutely would. All of the Pagan beliefs are based upon respect for the Earth and each other. It’s about community and living in harmony with others and your surroundings. That’s the modern translation of the most ancient belief system in this country. There are no rules to live by other than the traditional translation of “If it harms none, then do what you will”.

          We are, inevitably, heading more toward a more Pagan society anyway, through our increasing focus on renewable energy, organic farming, sustainability and so on.

          I just wish more were there already and that we were doing more to reject these personality cults in everyday life.

  7. Christoper in Canada 12 Nov 2013, 4:49pm

    If these “Christians” were truly concerned they would be devoting 100% of their attention to the tragedy in the Philipines.

  8. I don’t agree with these anti-gay types being given TV time. That is just promoting their propaganda, but, in front of an educated crowd, there is an opportunity to expose them as the hateful and non logical fools they are and then, after the debate, publish this idiocy.

    Consider this more of a trap than a promotion. Don’t confuse this with general TV coverage.

    Looking forward to lots of typical bigoted quotes to publish, further exposing people, like this women, for whom they really are.

    1. Dave North 12 Nov 2013, 5:12pm

      This bloviating windbag is always banging on about Militant Secularism.

      ‘Militant secularism’ makes as much logical sense as ‘aggressive pacifism’ or ‘hardline tolerance’ or ‘angry niceness’; it is an oxymoron, a cynical attempt to paint equality and fairness as infringing upon the religious who seem aghast that after decades of entitlement they might actually be expected to play fair.

      1. This woman is CLEARLY gay and in denial and has turned to religion in the vain hope it will help her overcome her self-loathing. In defence of ‘gay cure therapy’, she has said, “Some people choose not to act on same-sex attraction. They should not be ostracised for doing so but helped, if that is what they choose”. It is becoming increasingly well understood that people who suppress their same-sex attractions become homophobes – off-loading their inner-angst on to those who have accepted their true sexuality. Why do you think it is that so many homophobes are religious? It’s because they cling to ANYTHING (especially religion) which appears to reinforce their self-hatred. We MUST get this message out there. If homophobes realise that everyone fully understands why they are anti-gay, they’d be pretty stupid to continue being homophobic … wouldn’t they?

        1. floridahank 13 Nov 2013, 5:08pm

          Hey Truth, you commented….”This woman is CLEARLY gay and in denial…increasingly well understood that people who suppress their same-sex attractions become homophobes … If homophobes realise that everyone fully understands why they are anti-gay”
          Please tell me where you received your knowledge and degree to do psychoanalysis by reading someone’s comments. You truly are brilliant to be able to analyze writings only without prior knowledge of a person’s background — you must be another Sherlock Holmes — elementary my dear Watson!

          1. Someone just hit the bulls-eye with Florida Wank. That was a hit a palpable hit. Only the delusional get crazy about someone else’s sexual orientation. Sane people don’t care if someone is LGBT or not. Only those who have been twisted by the poison of religion hate in others what they hate in themselves. Feel the Force Luke, Feel the Force?

    2. Did you ever see the big religious debate with Stephen Fry? That was pure genius. I’m surprised any of these religious crazies have the balls to debate this anymore, given the results of that debate and the ease with which Fry and other intelligent people completely destroyed the points the religious were making.

      That’s the thing about these debates, there is no way these religious fanatics can win the argument when intelligent people are using facts, science, actual reality and evidence in the face of “just believe what I tell you!”

      Of course no intelligent person can choose the religious side when there is a rational debate about these things. Religion is based on irrational thought, it needs idiots who don’t question in order to survive and spread.

      When the audience has a basic intelligence, the religious cannot possibly win.

  9. GulliverUK 12 Nov 2013, 5:09pm

    I wonder who she thinks she represents. Most laity strongly support social justice, equality and that include equal marriage, that goes across Christian faith groups here and the US – the polling data shows that. The only group, the EVIL Evangelicals, are still mostly opposed, but then they’re also the most mad Christians on the planet, they even had to invent Creationism because the Bible is full of errors and contradictions – Creationism is an attempt to hide those.

    But, even amongst Evangelicals there is a dilemma – a growing number of young people support equality, and a growing number of people are turning away from Evangelicals, along with all other faith groups – despite the lies they try to peddle. Mother nature will take care of the rest over time. But in the end, Christians need to solve their own internal troubles – they need to stop the fanatics who damage the well-being of others by their fundamentalism and extremism.

  10. Defining this Movement as Dominionism. Dominion is an English word defined in the dictionary as,

    1. Control or the exercise of control; sovereignty:
    2. A territory or sphere of influence or control; a realm.

    In his own words, here is the definition of their goals by one of the many Dominionist leaders, Evangelical Preacher George Grant…

    “Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ — to have dominion in civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness. But it is dominion we are after. Not just a voice. It is dominion we are after. Not just influence. It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time. It is dominion we are after. World conquest.

    (Cont’d)

  11. Derek Williams 12 Nov 2013, 5:15pm

    Religion is the scourge of the homosexual.

    1. Religion is the scourge of the human race. Fortunately humanity is learning to free itself from the delusions of the religious.

  12. (Cont’d from previous)
    Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land — of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ.”

    From The Changing of the Guard: Biblical Principles for Political Action by George Grant, published in 1987 by Dominion Press

  13. Andrea Minichiello Williams is a young Earth Creationst, a Bible literalist (as she see’s it) and she is a Dominionist.
    Here is anther perspective of Dominionism from Gary North…

    “So let us be blunt about it: We must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will be get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God.”

    1. I can see what you are saying that others have said. I don’t know whether Williams would agree with them or not. Has she been asked? What is Williams saying ? or what has she said?

      1. The CLC is basically a front for the US Alliance Defense Fund here in UK, together they set up the Wilberforce Academy here to further their Christian Dominionist aims.
        You can easily do some research yourself to discover how well funded the ADF is and how extreme their aims and methods are.

        ADF and CLC are both dedicated generally to giving Christians, especially Conservative Christians power to deny freedom to others

  14. TeddySurgery 12 Nov 2013, 6:05pm

    “… those who experience same-sex attraction but prefer to change that.”
    Shouldn’t we look at what they would prefer to go against their own feelings – it’s not because they fear being discriminated against is it? Maybe they’re tackling the wrong issue here…

  15. Vile bigoted Woman who is full of hate pretending to be caring and doing good.

  16. CH Brighton 12 Nov 2013, 6:54pm

    We should all be careful to avoid using or responding to the Fundies’ expression ‘same sex attraction’. They intend it to mean an illness or perversion that can be cured through religious intervention of some kind (eg prayer or biblical counselling). It’s one of the ways in which these people are attempting to define us according to their twisted beliefs.

  17. GulliverUK 12 Nov 2013, 7:09pm

    When she’s in the debate, could somebody please ask her why Evangelical Christians have the highest divorce rate of ANY group? Their divorce rate is higher than other religious groups, and even higher than the average heterosexual couple. Given that fundamentalists tend to drive the average Joe Bloggs completely mad – do we think that after a time they can’t even stand their own partners? Do they drive each other mad with their fanatical behavior?

    Rather than worrying about settled law, perhaps they should concentrate on matters closer to home. Perhaps fundamentalism is the first signs of some sort of mental illness? If you listen to ex-fundamentalists (many have left) they often consider their previous behavior madness. Often fundamentalists cannot cope with the constant cognitive dissonance required to hold wacky Evangelical ideas whilst trying to square them with the reality of the world we actually live in, with science, with empirical evidence, with obvious truths.

    1. floridahank 13 Nov 2013, 12:16am

      Your question, “why Evangelical Christians have the highest divorce rate of ANY group? Their divorce rate is higher than other religious groups, and even higher than the average heterosexual couple. Given that fundamentalists tend to drive the average Joe Bloggs completely mad – do we think that after a time they can’t even stand their own partners? Do they drive each other mad with their fanatical behavior?”
      No, the answer is quite simple. The majority of “Christians” are not following the principles and teachings of Jesus Christ. Most church goers are following a religion (that’s why so many different denominations). Most are too lazy and interpret the Holy Bible with confusion, incorrectness, and lack of depth. To understand Jesus Christ one cannot be religious — one must be strict follower of Jesus Christ and the writings of His Apostles, otherwise you’re simply going through meaningless rituals, ceremonies, nonsense prayers, etc. It demands deep study, not just reading.

      1. Florida wank and his loony tune playing again and again. Jesus is a myth, Christianity is about money and power, and keeping the ignorant in a state of ignorance praise cheesus and pass me your cash. “It demands deep study” no it demands being dropped in the nearest dumpster. May the force be with you Luke.

        1. Jon (Malaysia) 13 Nov 2013, 4:00am

          Indeed!

        2. floridahank 13 Nov 2013, 4:14pm

          Hey Tam….since you have neither read/studied the Bible or Biblical scholars who have knowledge of Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Aramaic and are archeologists also with 50 yrs. research, I don’t think you have the capacity to understand historical findings that have been accepted worldwide for hundred’s of years. So unless you know what you’re talking about, all you have to offer is nonsense and sound stupid.

          1. You know nothing at all about me, but I know everything that I need to know about your brainwashing. The academics who are not brainwashed have written many learned works proving that religion is the product of ignorance and wilful delusion. If you are not gay than kindly take yourself off to the sites that cater to your particular brand of delusional “faith”. Instead of the magic crap in your jesus fairy stories try The God Delusion and see if it might actually start to detox the reasoning parts of your brain. Feel the Force Luke, Feel the Force? Wouldn’t you really rather be a Jedi it is the fastest growing made up newest nonsense you know? Much more believable than the old nonsense you currently spout.

          2. floridahank 14 Nov 2013, 7:00pm

            Hey Tam, you say, “You know nothing at all about me, but I know everything that I need to know about your brainwashing.”
            Are you a mystic, a shaman, a psychic, or some reincarnated god like your fantasy Force power? You know very little about human sexual development and its abnormalities — you simply live the sexual urges you have and have a very limited one-dimensional worldview. You have a closed mind and are afraid of any challenges made to the homosexual lifestyle.
            I visit this site to read the homosexual mindset — it is very different than 98% of society. Since you know nothing about the principles of Jesus Christ, you are foolish in closing your mind to Him.

          3. You really are a prize dumbass, like most of your fellow delusional people of “faith” you have no idea when you are being mocked with like for like nonsense. The Jedi is a fiction, a creation made to entertain and make money. Christianity is a fiction made to enslave and make money. However, dear “Florida Plank” everyone can see how idiots like you are literalists incapable of reason beyond your own closed brainwashed false reality. Have a nice day ya’all. Krishna, Hari Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hari Krishna ching, ching, ching.

          4. floridahank 16 Nov 2013, 12:05am

            Hwy Tam, putting all your nonsense aside, has there been any acceptable, unbiased studies on a continuum of homosexuals and their self-acceptance or rejection of their lifestyle? Do you think 100% of homosexuals are totally happy with their sexual behavior? Or in sexual behavior are there any homosexuals who dislike their orientation and would prefer not to be homosexual — the feelings of sexual behavior is complex and much more studying is needed.

          5. Hay Hank putting all your delusions aside are you still going to be such a total tosspot? Do you think 100% of Heterosexuals are happy with their sexual behaviour? Especially those hetero’s shagging behind their wives backs eh? I haven’t seen many laughing in divorce courts either? Do they ever think “maybe this heterosexual stuff is not really for me, I must get me off to a pretend therapist to change my orientation?” You go beyond absurdity with your schtick and all you ever do is proclaim what dumbass you are to believe in such nonsense. This is the last post I am going to make regarding you, because there is nothing that can be done for you. Now don’t forget the fictional character called jesus loves you, and the equally bogus church you go and holler your throat out in every week, loves your money. Praise cheesus and pass me your credit card!

          6. floridahank 16 Nov 2013, 4:49pm

            Hey Tam, when you say, Do you think 100% of Heterosexuals are happy with their sexual behavior?” …you make my point exactly. Also with homosexuals there are people on the low end of the continuum curve that are unhappy with their sexual behavior and would like to change it entirely, but with all the propaganda saying, “homosexuality cannot be changed” you are killing all their hope of stopping the homosexual lifestyle. And disillusioned psychiatrists say they cannot be “cured” which is a disgrace. Why do psychiatrists practice with mentally people who want to change if the pseudoscience can’t help them? There is a was for certain homosexuals to change their desires and practices — and it’s called accepting Jesus Christ — the creator of all things and can solve all sinful behavior and give peace and joy when people truly repent. I don’t await your comment because you have none that is based on reality, just your deluded thinking.

  18. Perhaps one of the panelists will ask why Christian Concern repeats the lie on their website that gay men will have their life expectancy reduced by twenty years? Or why all the money spent on the anti-equal marriage campaign was wasted? Why her organisation is ineffectual? What are its links to the Alliance Defence Fund? And where, exactly, does it gets all its money where £30,000 spent on fighting a losing battle to get an advert on a bus is seen as the Christian thing to do?

    Perhaps they will ask her why society has not collapsed in countries where marriage has been equal for many years?

  19. Since equal marriage wont affect Andrea Minichiello Williams, I dont see how she thinks shesqualified to utter an opinion!!

  20. Since equal marriagewont affect Andrea Minichiello Williams, I dont see how she thinks shes qualified to utter an opinion

  21. If readers would like to see what Andrea Williams obsesses about, see:

    http://tweetpsych.com/?q=a_minichiello

    No surprises there…

  22. Colin (Queenstown) 12 Nov 2013, 8:23pm

    My mum says…we (her kids) may have education and money but she has common sense. A woman semi-paraplegic at 29, 5 kids the youngest then 2. In a council house. No social services. She and my dad struggled but today we all work, own houses, have options in life etc. My sisters kids are all thriving and working. My parents have religion. None of the rest of us see it’s relevance.

    The woman may have education and money but no common sense. eh We need to attack her funding.

    I’m also wondering why the debate at all. I don’t see from the article why the debate is happening. We have gay marriage.

    Next is balanced education on the subject of gay kids in EVERY school in the country regardless of religious bias. Same message of acknowledgement, understanding and that gayness has been around since man walked this planet. It’s religion that perverted it.

  23. Lots of bizarre comments on this thread. Why are people on PN always so afraid of opposition?

    The mainstreaming of homosexuality – esp. male homosexuality – is historically a sign and symptom of social decadence. Same-sex marriage is a leap into the unknown: the phenomenon existed on the periphery of Roman society and was the prerogative of decadent emperors, but no society has ever attempted to do what we are doing. And the idea that people are “born gay” and that sexual orientation is as unchangeable as people’s eye colour is complete scientific nonsense.

    I’m not a Christian and I neither know nor care who this woman is, but some people on here need to grow up and grow a spine.

    Thank you.

    1. You may not be a Christian, but you are surely an idiot. Don’t understanding and or misquoting and misinterpreting sience is not “growing a spine”. It is pathetic stupidity and or spreading hate by telling lies.

    2. floridahank 13 Nov 2013, 12:46am

      The science studying the brain, and of the abnormal patterns is in its infancy.
      More and more people are sitting in psychiatrists’ offices, describing their problems and issues; while psychiatrists make more and more unscientific diagnoses of mental disorders while preprescribing more toxic and dangerous drugs to patients.
      Worse yet, there’s major conflict demonstrated in many articles and lectures, that psychiatry is a pseudoscience. The 300 officially certified distinct mental disorders are all theoretical. There is no physical diagnostic test for most of them. They are menus and collections of behaviors drawn up by committees of psychiatrists—and then stamped with labels.
      The study of homosexuality has a long way to go for definitive answers.. There has been no longitudinal studies about the varying degrees of homosexuality and their behaior. Simplistic labels used for sexual behavior does not ans

      1. However, studies have shown conclusively that “people of faith” are delusional and depending on how strong their “faith” is stated to be determines how delusional they happen to be. Simple! Feel the Force Luke, Feel the Force.

    3. But none as bizarre as your own. The opposition isn’t feared at all it is simply recognised, understood and accurately described for what it is. Hate pretending to be scientific is just plain unreasoning hate. Christian Fundamentalists are just mad people at war with reality and they are getting madder by the day because reality is always going to win, and deep down they damn well know it.

    4. No replies to trolls

    5. Robert in S. Kensington 13 Nov 2013, 12:17pm

      And of course you would have the definitive evidence that sexual orientation is mutable? Facts please. One thing we all know. Religious bigotry and hypocrisy are mutable, a chosen lifestyle. Nobody comes in the world that way, all learned behaviour and nobody gives a damn if you’re an atheist. So what, why do we need to know….perhaps to avoid being called a religious nutter? You’ve already proved that you are. While I’m at it, please provide us with irrefutable evidence that heterosexuality is also mutable? Only then will your statement hold water.

      1. floridahank 13 Nov 2013, 4:27pm

        Hey Robert when you ask the question of mutability of homosexuality or heterosexuality, our moral scientific process does not permit us to test it physically such as Hitler might have done with experiments on human beings.
        We cannot take a baby and try psychological/sociological experiments on him to see which kinds of factors are determinant of sexual outcome. But I do not accept unquestionably the statements made by a group of psychiatrists who have no scientifically accepted research to label over 300 mentally/psychologically behaviors as universally proven. One can see the opposition of expert witnesses in court cases about human behavior — they produce totally conflicting theories and they are the experts — it truly is a pseudoscience that the public is brainwashed into accepting as fact.

      2. floridahank 13 Nov 2013, 6:01pm

        Slightly redirecting Shakespeare’s Hamlet, the quotation “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.” can apply to a group of homosexals who continually throw around the word homophobe.
        That’s why is essential that we study the varying degrees of homosexual feelings about oneself. There needs to be a longitudinal study to see how many of them have hollow acceptance and disapproval of their homosexuality. Some may feel jealous of heterosexuals who find great attraction in women while they themselves cannot feel any sexual desire for the opposite sex. and desires to change from homosexuality to heterosexuality.

        Human sexuality is very complex , so when you consistently use the phrase homophobe it can really mean that “what you insist so passionately against — something as not being true, that people suspect the opposite of what you’re saying and that you unconsciously are anti-homosexuality but are afraid to adm

  24. Helge Vladimir Tiller 12 Nov 2013, 11:25pm

    Did this Williams person inject Botox into her brain instead of her skin ? I’ve heard rumours that Putin in Russia made the same mistake. Scientists say this might bring them in contact with the spooky monsters of the underworld ! Poor creatures-

  25. you have great companies and people trying to help with AIDS other heaping where there ben disasters and this woman self appointed homo hater – can she not do something far more positive with hear life? I alway think theres something wrong with people like her that so so obsessed with gay men

  26. Is she eating a massive, invisible corn-on-the-cob?

  27. No doubt she’ll make a complete fool of herself as per usual.

  28. I am a lawyer involved in LGBT issues in my workplace but I point blank declined to attend the debate. it’s the same principle as giving airtime to creationists by debating with them, which is why Dawkins will never do it.

  29. Is there a ‘cure’ for being a bigot? Probably not – especially where religion is the cause of the bigotry. So, the best way forward is for you not to try to convert us … and we’ll leave you to your vile ways of thinking.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 13 Nov 2013, 3:11pm

      Except that you don’t always have to be religious to be a bigot. There are plenty of non-religious who are just as bad although I would concede and agree that religion seems to have a monopoly on most of it.

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