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Taiwan: Biblical scholar says being born gay does not make it ‘natural’

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  1. Gee — another Biblical scholar who’s also an expert in genetics, evolution, and mammalian biology.


    1. Immanuel Chih-Ming Ke’s mind has been infected with a parasitical religious meme and it is overriding his faculties of logic and reason, tragic really.

  2. ” “A person can be born with a cleft lip, or just one hand, but you cannot say he is natural just because he was born like this.””

    Oh yes you can…… Ask any doctor. Twat.

  3. The fellow’s an idiot. Clearly

    1. Especially as he just shot himself in the foot. Following his “reasoning” people with cleft lips or just one hand should not be allowed to marry? What about people with glasses?

      Or just idiots like him? He has actually disproved his own point.

  4. Robert in S. Kensington 10 Nov 2013, 12:07pm

    Religion isn’t natural or growing up to be a bigoted hate-monger either. Both re extremely mutable. What a dumb arse!

  5. I should have stopped reading at ‘Biblical scholar’. Nothing rational will come for this idiot’s mouth.

  6. Just because someone is clever doesn’t mean they can’t be an idiot.

    1. In Fact, Fister many experts and genius’s are idiotic –

  7. I love it when people who purport to be intelligent use the word “unnatural”, because they expose their own ignorance.

    If something exists in nature, it is, by its very definition, natural. It would be correct to call orange Unicorns unnatural, because they do not exist in nature.

    This man is a moron. He should be fired for simply being so unintelligent he doesn’t understand what he’s saying, let alone being a bigot yo boot.

  8. Helge Vladimir Tiller 10 Nov 2013, 1:01pm

    Move to Russia ! They need you. Not The People, but Putin and his crew.

  9. Ironically – VIRTUS CUM SCIENTIA – Power with knowledge (science), is the moto of the Catholic Providence University in Tiawan.
    Religion seems to make people stupid and to twist reality to conform to their belief, rather than intellectual curiosity and reason informing their view of the world. the antithesis of knowledge; sad, and dangerous when used to demean people and “seperate” them from others for no reason other than to conform to your religion. Such attitudes lead to persecution and worse. Shame on the man.

    1. “When isolated people have delusional beliefs, it’s labeled mental illness.
      When limited numbers of people have shared delusional beliefs, it’s labeled a cult.
      When large numbers of people have shared delusional beliefs, it’s labeled a religion.”

      It’s not pretty watching a religion come apart at the seams.

  10. Christopher in Canada 10 Nov 2013, 2:05pm

    Can’t get over the glaring oxymoron that dwells within the first three words of this headline.

    In the land of Shintoism, et al, here is someone of supposed higher education embracing an enforced imported religious philosophy.

    1. Shinto is Japanese.

      1. Nevertheless, Taiwan can be considered a land of Shintoism as Christopher said, since at least a third of the population practices it, while another third practices Buddhism.

  11. He acknowledges that homosexuals are born this way and yet calls homosexuality and anything else that does not conform to his idea of the world as unnatural. I find such utterances both dangerous and deeply offensive. Who is he to define, in the name of religion and “academia” what is “natural”? Remember that the Nazis also adopted such narrow definitions.

  12. This Bozo was born with an obvious mental handicap but yet we show tolerance toward him.

  13. Jock S. Trap 10 Nov 2013, 3:00pm

    They just keep digging themselves a massive hole don’t they.

    Is there anyone they will not abuse and discriminate against.

    More proof religion is evil and all that is wrong with this world.

  14. The definition of ‘natural’ – existing in or derived from nature; not made or caused by humankind – so being born gay is In Fact Natural – and conforming to a superstition like believing in ghosts or Gods or the Easter Bunny is by nature UN Natural –

    here endeth the lesson – Biblical A hole!

    1. JD – read my comment above _ This university was founded by Catholic nuns in China and fled the communists to Taiwan in the 1940’s. It is a catholic based University which would account for the nature incredulity – when catholic “scholars”
      refer to “nature” they tend to try to big themselves up by not mentioning they are referring to the “Doctrine of natural law” which has no connection to REALITY, think Copernicus and Galileo ! If this is what he is doing it is les than disingenuous.
      and makes him appear even more of a fool in trying to apply Catholic Doctrine in a country which is of 70%+ Taoist and Buddhist. Either way he is in error and should hang his head in shame.

  15. white squirrel 10 Nov 2013, 4:24pm

    what is it about the bible / quran that warps peoples thinking in such an unatural way

  16. I know one shouldn’t judge a book by its cover, but that man’s stance, his expression, is just so familiar to me, so indicative of the opinionated homophobic heterosexual. He’s a good-looking man – I think he has “personal issues with homosexuality”. Know what I mean?

  17. So much “self-abuse” from one who supposedly does not identify as gay but obviously is SO interested in it.

  18. Helge Vladimir Tiller 10 Nov 2013, 5:28pm

    Chih-Ming, you have a sister in Norway ! Last week, a woman here in Oslo wrote in the Newspaper I buy every day ! “Homosexuality is against Nature”. As an answer I wrote, “Everything is created by You , dear God ! Bisexuals ,homosexuals and lesbians. Heterosexuals , transsexuals and transgender persons -transvestites and gender- queers. Drag kings and drag queens. We are happy people ! If He has not made a full stop yet , He is still creating.” Why didn’t the lady return an answer ? Maybe she is praying for me all day long , and have no time ? Well, let her pray. And at the same time, God- make her aware of the fact that thousands upon thousands of young boys and girls have committed suicide because religious persons have damned their Love Life.

  19. Tim Hanafin 10 Nov 2013, 5:37pm

    Natural = of nature. Where the f*ck does he think I come from – the land of Narnia. Coming from a ‘professor’ of mythology it’s rich,

    1. GingerlyColors 11 Nov 2013, 9:21am

      If he comes from Narnia then he must be well inside the closet and not prepared to accept himself for the way he is!

      1. GingerlyColors 11 Nov 2013, 9:24am

        The scholar I mean, not you Tim – I should have read “I” instead of “he”.

  20. Trying to be generous I’m thinking he might have a language problem or maybe something has been lost in translation.

    Perhaps he is confusing the word “natural” with “normal” (as in common).

    That said it is just as normal for a gay person to be gay as it is normal for a straight person to be straight or for a bisexual person to be bisexual. Straight, gay and bi are considered by all legitimate medical and scientific bodies to be normal, natural, human sexual orientations found in every human population everywhere.

    Whatever, he is certainly not making any logical sense

    1. Prior to the 70s and 80s these legitimate scientific and medical bodies considered we were mentally disordered and diseased. Regardless that they finally changed their expert opinions along with religion they must share in the blame for entrenched homophobia within our society. I wonder how long we will have to wait for an apology from these same bodies.

      1. At the time you are referring to, those institutions were using faulty studies.
        The sample group of homosexuals available to researchers were already presenting for medical/psychological problems or were already within the criminal/penal system, I think it has been well established and acknowledged that the conclusions drawn from research based on this sample group were entirely skewed and flawed.

        1. Re-read my comment. Of course they were flawed. However, psychiatry, psychology, medicine and science stating that homosexuality was a mental disorder or a disease for generations has helped to entrench homophobia within our society. Or do you believe that only the religious are bigoted? I know alot of people who profess to be atheists/agnostics that are just as bigoted as their religious counterparts. And as stated above, I am not aware that these institutions ever apologised for the misery and grief caused to countless gay men and women.

  21. Christopher Coleman 10 Nov 2013, 6:10pm

    A scholar should know the precise meanings of the words he uses. This scholar uses “natural” when he ought to use “normal” or “usual”. We think in words and if a scholar does not use words accurately, his work will be sloppy and untrustworthy.

    Many things exist in Nature, both good and bad. What matters is the degree to which any natural thing can harm the human species. It has yet to be shown that being homosexual causes harm to the individual or anyone else he interacts with — “harm” that is beyond and different from the usual harms that people visit upon each other.

    This biblical scholar would do well to compare the history of the Jews in the Bible with the histories of other peoples, ancient and modern, written by themselves. He might also compare the Bible’s mythological passages with the myths of other religions, living and dead. He might then say something worth hearing. However, there are two essential prior study requirements: logic and language.

  22. The statement, “being born that way is not natural” is truly an oxymoron whereas being born this way is a variant of natural human sexuality. Then there is the aspect of “sin”. The key critical component that is the foundation of sin is choice. So if one is actually born this way, the aspect of choice thus becomes removed and there is no sin. God put the same base root instinct inside of gay people’s hearts as He has placed in the hearts of heterosexuals and this is the desire to be sexually intimate with and bond with that one special person. In these facts, it is totally and utterly unfair for straight people to be able to fulfill their base root instinct while telling us to just, as the phrase goes, “suck an egg” and deal with it. That while their lives are fulfilled we must remain permanently celibate for life, something that they are totally incapable of doing themselves. Expecting us to be celibate like this is truly a form of cruelty.

  23. I’m not sure scholar is a good word to describe this imbecile.

  24. One of the most idiotic arguments I have heard. The definition of natural is “existing in or derived from nature: not made or caused by humankind”. Hi argument is very strange given that he accepts people are born Gay. As some have already pointed out, had he said “normal” that would be different. Using the same silly theory you could argue that being ginger isn’t normal.

  25. Francis Gallant 10 Nov 2013, 11:04pm

    Just say you would compare being born gay to someone being born with a cleft lip. I think that two people with a cleft lip could fall in love with each other and not have to face having it shunned by society. People with a cleft lip should not be fired from their job. People with a cleft lip should be allowed to kiss in public. People with a cleft lip are possibly not going to go to Hell and are eligible to get into the Kingdom of Heaven. Are you claiming that people with a cleft lip have been created by this god you speak of? So where did gay people come from that they should be deprived of the same rights?

  26. What a warped bigot. People are born gay. They are NOT born religious.

  27. Francis Gallant 10 Nov 2013, 11:09pm

    Excuse me while I go and look up the meaning of scholar.

  28. The idea that thousands of people worldwide make livings out of being ‘biblical scholars’ is hysterical to me. It’s as ludicrous as someone being solely employed as an expert on Peter Pan. It’s hight time we relegated religious nonsense to the home, where it belongs along with other personal ‘belief’ preferences such as vegetarianism and homeopathy.

  29. michaelandfred 11 Nov 2013, 12:55am

    “Biblical Scholar.” Why not ask a horticulturist, or mechanic, real estate salesman or musician. In what capacity is this person who studies the bible qualified to speak on what is or is not natural?

  30. I’m so very sorry to see this kind of news from Taiwan made its way to PinkNews :( Hopefully in a couple months it will be the news of marriage equality from Taiwan makes it here. :)

    1. There is one crucial fact missed out from the article, this is a “scholar” at a University founded by *catholic nuns* in China and relocated to Taiwan to flee the communists, the disheartening thing is that he appears to be using the term natural in the “Doctrine of natural law” catholic sense but attempting to delude his audience. The nature of the beast – it took them quite a long time to apologise for Copernicus and Galileo and still they are attempting to conflate and confuse, at least they are consistent – consistently wrong and deluded.
      Most of the Taiwan population are Taoist or Buddhist, it is just rather sad that this nonsense is being spread in this country with the usual deception.

  31. Judge not lest he be judged. He is only giving his opinion. It really says a great deal about him. My God would never do this and he/she loves us all. Even him. There are just too many of us to be ignored anymore. Biblical interpretations are just silly/selective. Try “Love thy neighbor”. Affection, respect and support is what God does.

    1. Closet cases will ALWAYS use whatever means they can to support their self-loathing. In this man’s case, he selectively uses an old novel. If there was no biblcal hatred of homosexuality, there’d be no homophobia. Ergo: ditch the old book – live happily.

  32. GingerlyColors 11 Nov 2013, 9:19am

    Talk about contradicting oneself! Of course being born gay is natural. Being gay is just one of nature’s many anomalies and cleft lip is another. Cleft lips and palettes can and do cause children born with the condition problems and happily these can be corrected with minor surgery. Homosexuality on the other hand cannot be cured. And there is no cure for Downs Syndrome but people affected can live fulfilling lives.

  33. St Sebastian, the humanist 11 Nov 2013, 10:24am

    He is entitled to his opinion, but he is not entitled to any credibility without scientific credibility. He does not appear to provide any evidence (only his opinion) that can be subjected to scrutiny, so it is not worth even a moment of examination.

    It is also a religious opinion so there is no objectivity because religion requires faith, i.e. requires suspension of scrutiny. Given the requirement of faith, any further extrapolations are equally suspect.

    Furthermore, his opinion is completely irrelevant because I have no religious beliefs it simply doesn’t apply to me. Religions can only make rules for their followers and no one else. Each person can decide whether they believe and be prepared to subject themselves to their rules.

    He is therefore an irrelevance to everyone who does not have the same religious beliefs/sect

  34. Join us to speak out this man was wrong

  35. James Campbell 13 Nov 2013, 12:17am

    I am surprised at the attempt to compare cleft lip with homosexuality – but then again, I am not, as what can expect from a poorly educated religious idiot?

    The upper lip develops from three parts and the palate develops in two halves, which then join in the middle. Clefts happen when they fail to join normally. Sometimes, if the process of joining begins and is not completed, the gum may not be affected. In many cases we do not yet know the cause of cleft lip. In some case there is a genetic link. The gene involved in ‘van der Woude syndrome’ (a cleft-related condition) has already been identified. Cleft lip is a fault which, untreated, does not allow the patient to live a full life. Compare this to the full life enjoyed by gay people (if allowed to by others). The only similarity between the two is that neither is a choice.

  36. In this program,talk about same-sex marriage in Taiwan.

  37. white squirrel 16 Nov 2013, 10:02am

    this is on a par with saying
    ‘being born human does not make it natural’


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