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Irish Prime Minister: We will make our decision on equal marriage soon

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  1. If there is a referendum on equal civil rights then Ireland deserves loud condemnation.

    fair enough the attorney general says that a referendum is needed as marriage equality requires a constitution change.

    but that simply means that the irish constitution is a disgusting document created to discriminatie.

    A referendum on equal civil rights is absolutely unjustifiable and it is shocking that gay rights groups bin Ireland are not loudly condemning this disgraceful situation.

    1. I am a little disturbed by the way you describe the Constitution of my country as “disgusting”. It is, in fact, defined as a “living document” which keeps pace with the modern world.

      Presently, a equal marriage bill like the one of England & Wales could be rammed through our Parliament. However, its constitutionality could be questioned later because the Constitution of Ireland lacks a definition for marriage.

      A referendum is needed to rubber stamp a definition so there will be no legal issues in the future for same sex couples.

      Yes, it can be a long winded approach but I prefer us, the Irish people, having the right to vote on International Treaties & major constitutional issues than a Parliament who could the same on the whim of the government, like most in the world including the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

      1. Not as disturbed as by the idea that equal civil rights can be subject to a vote though.

        If the constitution requires a vote to allow equal civil rights then it is clearly an appalling document.

        Equal civil rights should not be subject to a vote.

        Considering the massive money that will be spent by the no campaign demonising our community as child abusers there is no guarantee that this will pass.

        What then?

        There is no plan B.

        And that GLEN group seems to be as useless as Stonewall in the UK.

        1. Robert in S. Kensington 30 Oct 2013, 5:31pm

          You raise an interesting point. What if the referendum fails? What exactly is plan B assuming there is one which I doubt meaning equal marriage will be set back for years? Kenny needs to clarify if the worst case scenario unfolds. Perhaps someone with expertise in the Irish Constitution could elucidate?

      2. .....Paddyswurds 30 Oct 2013, 3:45pm

        Ignore him Martin.It is a troll with a hang up about Ireland in particular. It would appear from Kenny’s comments that a law is in the offing. As you probably know the referendum is NOT on Marriage Equality, but to clear up an ambiguity in the piece of the Constitution concerning Marriage which is in fact neutral and does not mention men and women. However judges have been interpreting it as meaning man and woman because that was the norm when it was written. The need to clear up any ambiguity came about because a judge in the future could attempt to rule Marriage Equality unconstitutional.

        1. Wrong. My parents are Irish. I have a genuine interest in Ireland and a complete revulsion at the idea that equal civil rights be determined by a vote.

          And if you seriously think those US churches who will be funding a ‘no’ campaign will regard this as anything other than a vote on marriage equality then you are deluded

          The campaign against equality will link marriage equality to paedophilia. This is a standard tactic of those nuts. And the absolutely vicious demonisation of gay people means that there is no guarantee that the vote will pass.

          And there is no plan B.

          Why on earth not.

          Your dismissal of these points is mirrored by the complacency of GLEN. And that is certainly very worrying.

          1. SteveC, the passing of equal marriage legislation also passed into law because of a vote. Please tell me what the difference is as I am lost to your pretty stupid arguments. Time and time again on here people have stated the situation regarding the passing of equal marriage into law in Ireland, and time and time again the same people just throw their hands up and declare the country/people/constitution a farce. Please explain how politicians in Westminster and in the house of Lords are better qualified than the voters in England and Wales. You elect politicians to make certain decisions for you. Just accept that in other countries a different system may apply and in Ireland the Constition supercedes politicians and can ONLY be changed by the WILL of the PEOPLE. Not elected politicians. Not supreme court judges. Not interested groups. I fail to see what the problem you have with this system is. Just 10 years ago we wouldn’t even be having a discussion about equal marriage

          2. Human rights and civil rights supercede a constitution. Otherwise pretty much any human or civil right can be put up for debate or for a vote.

            Same-sex marriage equality affect no-one but same-sex couples or those who may want to marry a same-sex partner one day.

            Therefore it is wrong to say that it’s acceptable that a minority’s rights to be determined by the will of the people

            And there’s the awkward possibility that the referendum may fail (see my comment below as to how this may happen.)

            What then?

            If the referendum fails are you seriously arguing that gay couples should wait another generation before becoming equal citizens?

  2. Robert in S. Kensington 30 Oct 2013, 1:59pm

    I wouldn’t describe our country’s decision to introduce equal marriage merely as a whim if that’s what you’re implying and correct me if I’m wrong. It was taken very seriously, had the longest public consultation in history, was given expansive scrutiny in both Houses, debated at length in both chambers and was passed overwhelmingly in both. The legislative process in my view is a lot better than putting social issues to popular vote which in my view is utterly wrong, tantamount to mob rule even if such a result favours LGBT people. If that had been the case in America, black people would still be second class citizens today and interracial marriage forbidden and no LGBT rights either. If CPs had been put to a referendum in the UK, it would probably not have passed.

  3. The Irish government needs to legislate for equality.

    If this referendum fails then Ireland is condemning the gay community to 2nd class citizenship for another generation.

    The idea that the mob decides on civil rights in Ireland is absolutely chilling.

  4. Putting to 1 side the horrific reality that minority civil rights are determined by popular vote for 1 moment, let’s look at the current figures.

    Currently support for marriage equality is at about 70% in Ireland.

    You’d think that this is a safe enough margin for victory.

    Well in the divorce referendum 6 months before that referendum support for allowing divorce was even higher than the current support for same sex marriage. The anti-divorce campaign (who will be the same groups as the anti same-sex marriage campaign) ran a completely dishonest advertising campaign basically saying that if divorce was introduced then fathers would lose all access to their children. Even though it was patently untrue their campaign of lies, slander and disinformation was so effective that divorce squeezed through by only 50.1% in favour versus 49.9% against.
    (continued below…)

    1. The anti same sex marriage campaign will not mention religion at all as they know that Ireland doesn’t care about that any more.

      Their campaign (which will be massively funded by US christian groups posing as Irish groups – Youth Defence, Society for the Protection of the Unborn Child – SPUC; Coir etc) will focus their attention on linking homosexuality to paedophilia and the alleged dangers that marriage equality will mean to children.

      While we know how dishonest and ludicrous these allegations will be, the poisonous drip, drip of lies and slander for months before the referendum will be massively damaging. And failure in the referendum is a possibility that is being discussed by no-one.

      There is no plan B for marriage equality if this referendum fails.

      Why not?

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