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Irish Deputy Prime Minister promises equal marriage referendum by 2015

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  1. Have the civil rights of a minority group ever been put to a public vote in Ireland before?

    I know their constitution requires this but seeing as equality is not up for debate what is plan B in case this hideously offensive referendum fails (which is possible once the hate campaign against our community is launched by the anti campaign

    1. Arguably the 31st Amendment (on children’s rights), and maybe some of the ones on abortion and voting rights. Plan B is to try again in a few years time, I’d imagine. The government could always try passing same-sex marriage as an ordinary law, and hope that the courts decide that it doesn’t contradict “The State pledges itself to guard with special care the institution of Marriage, on which the Family is founded, and to protect it against attack.”

      On the plus side, depending on the wording of the amendment, it should enshrine marriage (same-sex or otherwise) as a constitutional right, making it very difficult to take away in the future.

      1. .....Paddyswurds 30 Oct 2013, 12:31pm

        Comments today by Enda Kenny that the Cabinet will decide next week on Marriage Equality would indicate that he intends to pass a law rather than go for referendum. The referendum in any case isn’t directly a question on Marriage Equality, but on changes to the present constitutional law on Marriage which does NOT mention Gender whatever, but is interpreted by some Judges as meaning A man and a Woman. The referendum is to clear any ambiguity and to copper fasten the gender neutrality already contained therein.

  2. Get ready for a massive homophobic advertising campaign-funded by organised religions and directed at the gay community.

    Get ready for increased homophobic attacks- both verbal and physical as a result.

    Remember Nazi Germany in the 1930’s when the Jews were portrayed in all sorts of anti-semitic ways in order to whip up hatred.

    Why a civilised country needs a state organised refrendum on the rights of a minority is beyond me.

    Haven’t we learned anything from history?????

  3. Robert in S. Kensington 28 Oct 2013, 10:52am

    And I thought we were dragging our feet in the UK, although I would have liked it if we didn’t have to wait so long before the first couple can marry.

    That said, the Roman cult (oddly not the state cult) will now be given more than ample time to mount a viciously mendacious hate campaign, not that I think it will get them far seeing how the CoE and the RC cults in the UK didn’t have any impact on the result, bu it’s so unnecessary. Ireland needs to reform its constitution and put an end to referenda on social issues.

  4. Kelvin Beer-Jones 28 Oct 2013, 10:54am

    I agree. Human Rights are not the same as Popular Rights. A referendum on whether minorities should be given equal rights will simply invite attacks against that minority.

    The vultures will now be circling round Ireland, and they will come from all over the world, their only aim – to vilify and denigrate homosexuals.

  5. On the subject of a referendum on equal marriage in Ireland:

    Help to sign: prenume=first name; nume=family name; oras=city; tara=country.
    Also can use Google to search “vrem parteneriat” and translate it into your language
    You’ll receive a mail and have to click on the link to confirm your signature.

  7. Robert in S. Kensington 28 Oct 2013, 11:15am

    It will be interesting see how much foreign intervention will emerge, perhaps from NOM in America as it did in France and a helping hand from the C4M lot in the UK, not that they achieved anything successful. It’s madness to delay this until 2015. Do it now, get it over with.

  8. Jock S. Trap 28 Oct 2013, 11:23am

    This should not be a referendum issue.

    If you expect all to pay taxes equally then have the decency to treat people equally, including marriage.

    It’s a disgrace, that love and human rights have to have a referendum, when it should be a matter of cause and be a given.

    1. In an ideal world, of course it wouldn’t be a matter for a referendum. However the Irish constitution contains language that could be (and often has been) interpretted as prohibiting same-sex marriage. Amendments to the consitution must be approved by a referendum. If the government wishes to pass same-sex marriage, it has three choices. It can do it through legislation and see whether the courts consider it unconstitutional, which they are quite likely to. Or it can put same-sex marriage to a referendum, as it is, and which I suspect will pass. Or it can have a referendum to allow the consitution to be changed in the future without a referendum. In principle I favour the latter, as I feel that constitutional referendums all too often put the rights of minorities to a popular vote. But in practice I do not believe that the Irish public would consent to such a change. So pragmatically I think the proposal of a referundum on marriage equality is the best strategy.

  9. It looks like Ireland has its own Stonewall in GLEN. I find the idea of people’s rights being up for a referendum offensive. It’s inevitable we’ll see the same kind of poisonous campaign from the Catholic church and other religious groups as they did here during the marriage equality discussions for England & Wales and Scotland. We’ll hear the same nasty old arguments of how gay people are unfit parents, even a danger to children, are morally corrupt, depraved and promiscuous. All of this will just boost homophobia as it has here and elsewhere across the globe where religious groups have campaigned against equality for gay people. The government is there to represent the people. That means ALL the people, not just the majority. People’s rights must be universal and NEVER at the mercy of what is currently popular.

    1. The Irish government is of the view that they cannot introduce SSM without amending a problematic section of the Irish Constitution, which requires a referendum. If they tried to introduce it without amending the Constitution, the law might well be struck down by the courts anyway.

  10. Tim Hanafin 28 Oct 2013, 11:52am

    The RC lot will be spewing hate from the pulpits, ordering the church members how to vote. Fortunately, they no longer have the grip on the population that they had following the tidal wave of child abuse scandals and cover ups. Irish people can think for themselves.

  11. Why don’t GLEN condemn the hideous idea that a vote is required to give equality in Ireland.

    A public vote on marriage equality makes ireland look as backward as the USA.

  12. I’m going to try and answer everyone’s questions a best as I can. In relation to steve’s question on a plan B the government is first going to make civil partnership as equal as possible under law (similar to the German system) then seeing that in a Republic all constitutional matters must go before a referendum there will be one. It is true that is annoying that I will have to ask 4.5 million people can I get married but when there is a yes vote (latest Milford brown poll shows 75% support) then my rights will be enshrined in te constitution making it far harder for them to be taken away in the future than if they were just protected by legislation. The catholic and Protestant churches have seen a collapse in their support in the last 2 decades especially the Catholic Church, in the recent abortion debates the church pulled out all the stops threatening tho excommunicate members of the Irish parliament (tds) who voted against the legislation. The legislation still passed.

    1. But IF the referendum fails what is plan B?

      Surely it’s not just to wait another 20 years.

      There is a plan B right?

  13. It’s like 10 wolves and one lamb voting on what’s for supper.

  14. Why should this be put to a referendum? Would they do it on any other ‘human rights’ issue? I doubt it very much.

  15. allwaysniceman 28 Oct 2013, 3:39pm

    The approval ratings of his party are at the moment 9%. Very nice perspective for success of gay marriage in the referendum next year indeed.

  16. Finding out they might delay it until 2015 was like a slap in the face. Usually when they announce a referendum, they set a date that’s only a couple of months away. I don’t understand why this should be any different.
    I’m not looking forward to the campaign of hate we will be subjected to and, yes, Americans will flood into the country to bolster the anti-equality side at their protests. The biggest threat to us winning this is that people tend not to turn out when the outcome will have no effect on them. We know all the bigots will vote, because keeping others down is what gets them out of the bed in the morning. We desperately need as many allies as possible to make the time to vote. We’re too small a minority to win this by ourselves.
    It would really suck if we lose precisely BECAUSE people know it’ll have no impact on them. That would prove our point but lose us the vote at the same time…
    If EVERYONE were to vote, we’d win easily.

  17. johnny33308 28 Oct 2013, 6:02pm

    Oh, yet another ‘referendum’ on Equality! This is what ALL the bigots say when they’re cornered by progress! Why not make it in 2020, or 2050 then? Just another feeble excuse to delay Equality! Since when do Human Rights get VOTED upon? This one’s been taking notes on how its done here in the US, taking his position as told to by his masters, passing as ‘religious’ leaders! In no way could this ever be ethical! What a DISGUSTING HUMAN BEING!

    1. Eamon Gilmore is the agnostic leader of the Irish Labour Party, which favours marriage equality. Who are these religious masters who are controlling him, and how are they instructing him to act? Could it be that you jumped to conclusions based on you assumptions regarding Irish society? Changing the constitution by referendum is the most effective way of enshrining same-sex marriage in Irish law. If it was done through legislation, it could easily be repealed in the future and its constitutionality would be challenged in the courts.

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