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Scottish Archbishop: Catholics may need ‘two weddings’ as a result of equal marriage plans

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  1. Colin (London) 30 Sep 2013, 1:33pm

    Oh the catholics are at it again! sigh sigh Where is my teacup?…

  2. Robert in S. Kensington 30 Sep 2013, 1:44pm

    It’s all about losing power. About bloody time the entire UK do what most EU countries do, make civil marriages the only legally binding one and have an option for those who want a religious component in a church or whatever. Get rid of this anachronism of religious denominations interfering in civil matters and Scotland doesn’t even have state religion.

    1. Colin (London) 30 Sep 2013, 2:28pm

      Well said Robert well said.

      1. Robert in S. Kensington 30 Sep 2013, 3:43pm

        It boils down to common sense, don’t you think Colin? I don’t know why MPs and MSPs can’t do something about it. Our parliamentary system is the only one that allows unelected clergy to sit in an unelected chamber and there is one other system I know of that allows it, Iran. It should be an embarrassment to the UK and to democracy.

        1. You answered your own question, Robert. When have you ever known a politician to use common sense!!!

  3. Excellent idea. The state can marry people. And the church can do whatever mumbo-jumbo that it wants, so long as it does it behind closed doors without interfering with normal people.

    1. That There Other David 30 Sep 2013, 3:09pm

      I wish I could upvote that twice :-)

  4. I think this is a great idea! We have civil marriages for everyone and religious for the few. Brilliant! And we have the Catholic church to thank for it! Way to go!

  5. Is that the Brooklyn Bridge behind him in the photo?

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 30 Sep 2013, 3:52pm

      The blue one I believe is the Manhattan Bridge, the brown one, Brooklyn Bridge at least both were when I was last there in May for a holiday.

  6. Less than 3% Catholic marriages are performed in the UK and their number are falling dramitically each year…. Who cares what the Catholics chose to do in Scotland? No-one is forcing them to do anything..

    1. GulliverUK 30 Sep 2013, 2:23pm

      There are more Humanist weddings in Scotland than Catholic ones, and they have to get married in a registry office first, so there is no reason Catholics, or the CofE, should have any type of privileged ‘special’ role in marriage.

      I do feel sorry for their congregants, most of whom do support equal marriage, and are being, yet again, ignored by the Catholic leadership. The only real way to deal with the problems of the stubborn, unwilling-to-compromise attitude of Catholic leaders is root and branch expulsion and replacement of them.

      1. I understand your sentiment, Gulliver, but I can’t share your sympathy for catholics who may believe in gay equality but continue to attend mass like sheep, saying nothing and letting the homophobia in the church flourish. If they don’t want the leaders of the church to be homophobic then they’ve got to speak out.

  7. There’s absolutely no reason why the practice in France and other European countries – of having separate legal and religious marriage ceremonies – couldn’t be perfectly workable here. High time, if you ask me.

    1. or how about the practice in Canada?

      there’s only one ceremony.
      in a church if you are so inclined… or at the city hall if you prefer a civil ceremony.

      We DO have quite a few denominations here that are open to celebrating marriages regardless of the gender of the partners. And they are allowed to do so, as they please. The celebrant is enacted by government to also perform the “civil” part of the contract (it adds like 2 minutes of signing, witnesses, and legal stuff to the religious ceremony).

      It’s so funny, but, in ALL the years that Canada has had full marriage equality, there hasn’t been a single case of anyone insisting to be married in a Roman catholic church, or causing trouble for the Roman sect because of their non-belief in equality for all.

      Probably because there are a BUNCH of other denominations that are MORE than happy to welcome LGBT people into the fold.

    2. If anything, it gives the religiously inclined the opportunity to party twice on the same day.

  8. GulliverUK 30 Sep 2013, 2:19pm

    I’m happy we move to the France model – you get married, legally, in the registry office, then if you … really must ( :D ) … go and get a non-legal wedding ceremony in your favorite religious venue.

    The only bit which matters to me is the legal recognition, and I would never go in to a religious venue, not unless my partner wanted to. Even then made-up religious nonsense has no meaning to me. If the Catholic church want to refuse to carry out the legal process, something they fought hard for, in protest, they will be hurting themselves and their congregants – not us.

    1. The established organised religions are rapidly hand-wringing themslelves onto the scarp-heap of history. Simply because they have enjoyed a monopoly over ‘marriage’ for so long, they think they can retain their position by bellyaching. They do not ‘own’ marriage. Marriage is a CIVIL contract. If someone is so inclined as to want some sort of ‘blessing’ from their particular sky fairy, fine. Let them have it. But religion should be a secondary conderation to the STATE’S legal endorsement of a CIVIL partnership.

  9. Robert in S. Kensington 30 Sep 2013, 2:25pm

    Well, they’ve run out of other red herrings, polygamy, incest, and bestiality none of which defeated the bill south of the border but resulted in overwhelming support and passage. Pathetic loon is craving attention to be relevant when quite the opposite is happening by acts of crass stupidity such as this. Pointing my fingers laughing and the fool. Come out and do yourself a favour Cushley, you’ll be a lot happier and fulfilled.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 30 Sep 2013, 2:26pm

      …laughing at the fool… I meant.

  10. Yet more irrelvant waffle from an outfit past its sell-by date. WHO CARES what they think!? Either get onside – or get the f**k out of it! But stop trying to big-up and perpetuate your position in society. Religion is becoming a minority interest pastime. Giving credence to its views is like asking The Home Aquarium Society to comment. Totally irrelvant – and getting more so by the day.

  11. Stupid is as stupid does.

    Many catholics are quite used to the idea of having a registrar marriage, given the second marriage and other mumbo jumbo restrictions to catholic church marriage.
    I suspect even more of them will just opt to not bother with the church as well, great, less money for the frocked lot, and all so they can whine persecution, because of their OWN actions.
    Of course they could just go for a humanist , all in one, ceremony, and have the choice of lots of stunning locations of their choice for their special day, Humanists celebrants will agree the form and content (as long as its not religious) of the vows etc and the style of the event with the couple beforehand and will marry anyone religion or none gay or straight, without discrimination, and its more personal than a registrar office.

    So frocked ones go for it, all so you can whine you are being persecuted because of your OWN choices, again!!

  12. How generous of him to take time away from raping children to share his views.

    1. That There Other David 30 Sep 2013, 3:13pm

      Indeed, and completely unrelated to that why exactly isn’t Keith O’Brien being allowed by The Vatican to ever return to Scotland? I’m sure they have excellent reasons that are nothing to do with the circulating rumours about that Benedictine school in Fort Augustus….nothing at all.

  13. That happens in Mexico and nobody has died because of it.

  14. Paul Essex/London 30 Sep 2013, 3:15pm

    Before the SSM debate kicked off a couple of years ago I would have wholeheartedly supported the Church’s right to continue conducting weddings for those it deemed eligible, after all it’s not for me to interfere. But after 2 years listening to never ending tripe based on the fallacy that Religion (in particular the Church) is intrinsically linked to every single person’s marriage, despite the fact that more people opt for Civil ceremony’s than Church ones, I’m really not that bothered if it looses its power r.e. State Marriage, which it’s abused by purporting to have some monopoly on. The only reason why it hasn’t lost it before is that for the last 150 years the majority of people have been allowed to opt out of the Church when getting married and can ignore whatever rubbish the Church promotes about its involvement in their relationships. It’s time the Church (and it’s members) woke up and realised that most of society has been humouring them like the local harmless busy-body.

    1. It’s amusing isn’t it? Even Henry VIII of England was forced to set-up his own ‘church’ in order to get round the catholic monopoly on marriage. I simply cannot fathom why we give such deference to these people. They run a ‘club’ – whose membership believes in talking snakes and men who come back to life after they die. Yet governments and ‘the establishment’ cowtow to this ‘belief’. I just don’t get it. It’s HIGH time church and state were disetablished. Then we can marry who we want in a CIVIL ceremony without religion bleating on that IT has a RIGHT to interfere. IT DOESN’T!!!!!! It’s a CLUB – with members. I don’t want to join their club, so why should their club rules be imposed on my life?

  15. muscletongue3000 30 Sep 2013, 3:22pm

    great — take back marriage and give it back to the state where it belongs. separate the church from the state. follow the example of so many european countries!

  16. Robert in S. Kensington 30 Sep 2013, 3:50pm

    Almost 70% of marriages in England and Wales are civil, some of which include divorced catholics. You would think with such an ever increasing trend, it would prompt government to consider abolishing the legal standing of religious marriage and make all legally binding marriages civil.

    Of course, I’m all for disestablishment of the CoE but if not, then at least make all marriages civil.

  17. Christopher Coleman 30 Sep 2013, 4:37pm

    The archbishop’s suggestion is the right way forward. In France and Mexico, for example, civil marriage is required. A religious ceremony may follow for those who want them. The system should be introduced in Britain. It will then become clear to all that marriage is no more than a secular, social custom. When that happens, homophobic reactions to same gender marriage will become quite pointless.

  18. I thought all marriages were civil, it’s just that the priest is also the registrar in a church. So it’s the same now.

    1. Christopher Coleman 30 Sep 2013, 7:00pm

      Very true, but it makes many people think that marriage is a purely religious affair. Tat is why separating the two functions will be a forward step.

  19. Seems to me that there was recently another Scottish Bishop that pushed a lot of homophobic and anti-marriage equality scaremongering. Funny, we don’t hear much from, or about, him anymore. Why was that again?

  20. Barrybear1980 30 Sep 2013, 8:13pm

    So that would make the Catholic Church the same as every other religion in the UK apart from church of England/Scotland weddings then.

  21. Is there no end to the stupidity of these scare-mongering priests?

  22. He’s trying to use this to scare people into opposing equal marriage, but he doesn’t realise that a lot of people would support such a move – the removal (whether voluntary or not) of a religion having the legal right to perform marriages.

    Last week the newspapers released data from the 2011 census in Scotland and it seems there is a big decline in the number of religious people in Scotland.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/census-reveals-huge-rise-in-number-of-non-religious-scots.22270874

  23. Ohhhh no! The Catholic Church is so desperate and so cheap… I just lost my respect!! They are dragging their feet at the lowest level. How pathetic!!!! If they wanna have a dual wedding for their own members, then let them have it. HAHA. The Catholic Church will FAIL MISERABLY on this issue!

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