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Scottish Parliament told that parents should be able to withdraw kids from equal marriage lessons

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  1. That There Other David 26 Sep 2013, 5:56pm

    Are they actually inferring that homophobia is becoming a problem because of immigrants?

    Wow. That’ll make some Daily Mail readers heads explode.

    1. Glasgow Oliver 26 Sep 2013, 9:27pm

      1 in 10 young people (under 25s) in England are now Muslim. You’ve seen what Muslims do to gay people?

      1. What dop Muslims do to gay people?
        I know several Muslims, and none of them have ever done anything to me!
        I grew up with two Muslim friends at school, they were lovely, and their religion never affected me at all.
        I worked with several Muslim people in the last five years, and all have been lovely.
        Christians that I know, on the other hand, have been entirely different, inflicting their opinions on me, desperate to judge me, snide, arrogant, deceitful and two-faced.

        When it comes to religion, my personal experience of Christians is far more negative than my experience of the many moderate Muslims I’ve met.

    2. No no, they’re inferring that homophobia is totally awesome (and thus not a problem), and is because of immigrants. Seems like they’re trying to cover themselves either way.

  2. Clause 28 by any other name.

  3. So he is saying that we should do nothing to tackle bigotry being passed on to the next generation because people of adult generations are bigoted?
    Surely, if immigrant families are bigoted (and I don’t for a moment believe him on that), then that would be the exact reason why sex-ed must be made by law to cover LGBT issues

  4. Scottishguy 26 Sep 2013, 6:19pm

    Absolutely not! If you don’t like values of our society…f@ck off back to wherever you came from!

    Children need to be taught that the views of their parents are not always the only ones. How else will the cycle of bigotry ever be broken.

  5. Robert in S. Kensington 26 Sep 2013, 6:21pm

    Not going to happen. It will probably mirror the bill for England and Wales that the legal position of marriage for both orientations must be taught and not the teacher’s personal opinion. In other words, pupils will be taught what the Marriage law now means. Allowing religious teachers in state funded non-religious schools to teach their personal opinion against SSM would not be workable and actually cause problems for pupils who are gay.

    1. I hope you’re right, Robert, but I fear catholic state schools in Scotland will be allowed to teach what they want, even it effectively means a return of a Section 28/Clause 2a type law in catholic schools.

  6. Michael Calwell is well-known as a homophobe and his gay-hating posts are all over the internet. Type ‘Michael Calwell homosexual’ or ‘Michael Calwell Bigot’ into Google and you’ll find some very unpleasant stuff.

    He’s a rabid Catholic who’s also claimed that gay men ‘can’t have sex’ and that equal marriage is a ‘Marxist plot’.

    His organisation lies about safe sex in order to promote the discredited abstinence policies that have failed so badly in the US.

    The only question is, why a national parliament saw fit to take evidence from someone who will not, in any objective way, be affected by equal marriage.

  7. PantoHorse 26 Sep 2013, 7:29pm

    It is not the obligation of the state to provide education based upon the ideologies of any one particular group. We’re not living in a fascist state, nor a dictatorship. The state should be reflect of a broad range of opinions, but representative of no one in particular.

  8. Then surely they would respect the right of irreligious parents to take their children out of religious education which is currently mandatory. I went to a catholic school and most students were very accepting of the LGBT community and most quite frankly dislike religious education, they believe it’s useless, contributing nothing to their grades, and view it as a waste of time.

    1. Glasgow Oliver 26 Sep 2013, 9:33pm

      I don’t believe kids in state schools are taught religion ‘as truth.’ I think they’re just made aware of the religious background and customs in this country. What’s wrong with that? I think it’s essential for a proper understanding of our cultural heritage. Kids are simply being informed and educated, not preached to (not unlike sex ed. classes).

      1. In Scottish catholic state schools pupils are certainly taught catholic dogma – I know I was. But most politicians in Scotland are too scared of even discussing catholic schools, so they back them, and the catholic church’s bigotry, to the hilt.

        1. Glasgow Oliver 26 Sep 2013, 11:41pm

          Sorry, I meant secular state schools. I should have been more specific.
          Interestingly enough, I went to a Scottish Catholic school myself (2005-2009). There was far less bullying in my school than in the secular schools my cousins went to. I was often teased about being bi, but never anything malicious or spiteful. Whereas some of my cousins were frequently menaced, intimidated and even assaulted for no particular reason. From my experience, individual Catholics, even practising ones, are usually quite pro-gay. It’s the men in the frocks who are @rseholes.

          1. I must admit to having had a fairly good experience at school, but I wasn’t out at the time.

            Homosexuality simply wasn’t mentioned at all, and there was no heterosexual sex education to speak of – apart from a brief lesson in reproduction in science classes.

            I can’t remember being taught about marriage or relationships at all. If these people are so worried that they’ll have to teach about same sex marriage, does that mean they currently teach about mixed sex marriage? The whole thing seems a bit strange to me. Teach sex education and sexual health, but why the need to teach about marriage at all? But whatever they teach, it should cover everything – no opt outs on gay sex education should be allowed.

          2. I forgot to say that I went to catholic schools too!

            As for ordinary catholics who disagree with the church’s teachings on issues such as homosexuality, simply disagreeing while still going to mass doesn’t really help. They need to start speaking out or stop going to mass.

            Of course, I also wonder why people practice a religion which they disagree with. Probably out of habit, but it’s not very rational or logical.

  9. …. and for gay students …. will they be able to opt-out of discussions about heterosexuality for fear it will ‘confuse’ or cause offence? WHY do we pussyfoot around in this pathetically childish way? JUST TREAT US AS EQUAL for f**ks sake!!!!!! You’ll be AMAZED how quickly kids just accept it. That’s providing the whinging, divisive christian Taliban keep their interferring noses out. THAT hate speech is what confuses them.

  10. If parents want to pick and choose what realities their kids learn in school, they should be made to home school their kids entirely.

    This is not acceptable. You cannot lie to your kids about the world, no parent should be able to pick and choose whether their kids learn the truth or a fictitious version of the world through publicly funded education.

    This group should be told, in no uncertain terms, that if you want your kids in a publicly funded educational system they will not have the choice to tailor the education their child receives.

    If these people do not like their kids being told the truth, they should pay for that education themselves and hold responsibility for it when their kid comes to them at the age of 20 and tells them how much they hate them for limiting their development.

    1. Totally correct! Sadly, faith schools have been telling children lies and nonsense for centuries. Talking snakes and women created from a man’s rib? God parting seas? People coming back alive after three days? WHY do we allow this childish yet dangerous brainwashing of our young people? The Kenyan siege is ALL as a result of this.

      1. I agree with Bloke Toys and truth. Unfortunately, catholic state schools in Scotland are going nowhere. Almost all politicians in Scotland are too scared to even raise the issue, except to say they fully support them.

        When one MSP, John Lamont of the Conservatives, suggested that catholic schools were part of the sectarian problem during (I think) a debate on the Offensive Behaviour at Football Bill, the other MSPs were shocked at what he said and simply dismissed it. The homophobic Scottish government minister Roseanna Cunningham of the SNP actually screwed up her face in disgust while he was speaking, before shaking her head and laughing at him.

        The catholic church also said quite recently that anyone who is against faith schools is anti-catholic and no politicians challenged that view.

        So with that kind of attitude, I’m afraid catholic state schools will be around in Scotland for a long time and they’ll be allowed to continue to teach (or not teach) whatever they choose.

  11. Will gay parents be allowed to withdraw their kids from anything with heterosexuality in it?

  12. “You have to be mindful of the way Scotland is changing, particularly with the inflow of people from very strong pro-family, pro-marriage cultures,”
    All the more reason to insist on equality education.

    1. That remark really annoyed me too. Are they saying gay people aren’t pro-family and pro-marriage? My nieces and nephews cost me a fortune at birthdays, Easter and Christmas! Not to mention the mind-numbing hours I’ve spent watching Peppa bloody Pig while visiting or babysitting!

      Marriage equality will only make gay people more pro-family and certainly more pro-marriage, so their argument doesn’t make sense.

  13. ItchycooMark 27 Sep 2013, 3:00pm

    what about the strong number of immigrants who will benefit from equal marriage? I know quite a few who are in the UK because of our comparative freedoms.
    Can people withdraw their children where race and disability equality is discussed too???
    How many of those children will grown up gay, leaving another generation of confused, self loathing kids afraid to tell their bigoted parents about themselves

    1. Obviously they don’t want to mention LGBT immigrants as it doesn’t suit their argument.

  14. And that’s what those parents should have done at conception cause they don’t deserve to have kids.

  15. A simple solution. Make immigrants sign a form at the point of immigration that they are not religious homophobes and that they will allow their kids to be educated about equal marriage. No sign – no entry.

  16. Scottish Parliament told that parents should be able to withdraw kids from pseudo marriage lessons.

    Shock horror – parents have the right to educate their children how they want and not the way the State wants (bowing to the Metropolitan elite and their distorted parody of marriage) .

  17. …it’s so annoying to think people wish to continue to ignore the facts of life—homosexuality being one of them. Every single human being in the world should be taught in schools there is nothing WRONG with being GAY!!

  18. Colin (London) 8 Oct 2013, 10:47am

    This man is simply another religious nutter and adds nothing to the planet. So he tries to blame it on immigrants now.

    There is nothing good about catholics. I too went to a scottish catholic school. The state should not fund religious schools.

    Children have a right to learn about the real world, sexuality etc not have it hidden and projected by people who need something to believe in as they cannot handle death. They create fairy gods.

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