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Video: Dan Savage launches his ‘Not All Like That’ project for Christians who support gay rights

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  1. Very good …. but you took a LONG time to get here ….

    1. Really? There’s nothing here that wasn’t pitched by MCC churches 40 years ago. Affirming churches have failed to attract more than a handful of people – not because Christians are more anti-gay than anyone else but because Christianity isn’t pro-gay.

  2. In his Bull- remark, he was quite rightly pointing out that christians can quite happily disregarding instructions such as stoning women to death if they are not virgins when married, while clinging to a verse in Leviticus as if unalterable and inevitable truth.

    In short – he called them out for their cherry-picking. And, like a lot when challenged to defend their manifest intellectual dishonesty, a whole lot walked out… (Much more comfy in their echo chamber, after all).

    As for this project – Any reason why christians needed their hands holding? Why not do this themselves? Telling people like Dan Savage that they are “not all like that” is all well and good – but they simply don’t seem to dare confront their own lunatic fringe. And that is LONG overdue (and not just in terms of LGBT issues, but for women’s right, exploitation of poverty etc etc etc)

    1. The ‘lunatic fringe’ also consists of the ‘plain pig ignorant’. It is almost impossible to confront someone on the illogicality of their ‘belief’. They are, by definition, ‘believers’. If they have been told, since infancy, that ‘god hates fags’, they are going to find it VERY hard to undo that conditioning. And, admirable though this guys campaign is, I don’t envy him his task. ‘Believers’ believe they are right and everyone else is wrong. They are not easily disuaded from their ‘belief’ – even when the grossly hypocritical and selective nature of that ‘belief’ is called into question.

  3. Godric Godricson 4 Sep 2013, 5:01pm

    FFS why should we take any notice of this call for forgiveness from straight people? let them engage with Christians and especially the beardy-weirdy sector.

  4. LGBT people come out risking ridicule and rejection. Dan Savage is offering those quiet, straight Christians who claim they don’t hate us like their fundamentalist brothers and sisters to jolly well prove it and risk their reputations too. Be interesting to see how many do.

    1. Since the NALTs like to come to blogs like this to express their NALTness, and ignore their real audience, I’d say that the ball is now clearly in their court; they can’t ignore it.

      I’m skeptical that this will go anywhere because I don’t believe that NALTs really have the courage of their convictions, or the integrity to make it public.

      At best, when they come here to harass us, we can point them to the option.

  5. If they’re not all like that then maybe they need to address the denominations that ARE like that. Maybe they need to quesiton why they’re “not like that” but happy to remain parts of churches that ARE like that

    Because am I supposed to care when a Catholic assures me they’re not “all like that” while supporting one of the biggest forces of anti-gay bigotry in the world?

  6. Elston Gunn 4 Sep 2013, 7:31pm

    Is this actually set up by Dan Savage or is he just endorsing it? If it has been, then I agree with the above – shame this wasn’t set up by the Christians themselves. I’m not entirely convinced about the “it gets better” idea, perhaps too early to ascertain whether its had a beneficial change. Also find it funny to hear Savage say lgbt, cos normally he’s only banging on about the “g”, didn’t he get criticized in the past for claiming bisexuality wasn’t real or something? Ah yes that’s right, he, along with certain unscientific researchers, thinks that the way you can tell male sexuality is by attaching electronic equipment to their genitals and making them watch porn – I mean who wouldn’t get turned on??

  7. Quite frankly those christians who claim not to hate gay people are generally very weak and ineffectual in countering the lunatic extremism of some of their fellow cultists.

    Although maybe that is the fault of websites like Pink News which so actively promotes homophobic extremism through its relentless and depressing obsession with reporting every last word some religious nutters say.

    1. Sebastian Pinder 4 Sep 2013, 10:14pm

      There are many Christians including Catholics myself included that are members of LGBT groups and are out as gay. A lot of people on here mix their scripture up. Stoning women for adultery is Old Testament written for the Jews to follow, the New Testament is the Section Christians follow.
      By the way Jesus never commented anywhere about homosexuality.

      1. Justusboyz 4 Sep 2013, 10:40pm

        Explain Sebastion? With all due respect, if you believe in god and the bible then surely that’s all of it? The entire thing? Not just selective bits.
        My understanding from my short period of brainwashing is that your place in gods kingdom is assured on the basis that you bring people to god, which fanatics don’t !
        They believe they are perfect and without sin.

  8. What is often not realized is that Christianity retains so much influence in post-Enlightenment societies in part because of large numbers of people who remain loyal to churches through sentimental and historical association, yet are in reality indifferent or even ignorant about what they teach and encourage. I once knew a woman who attended an Evangelical Anglican Church because of the ‘lovely community spirit’ and was shocked when told they condemned homosexuality. Religious feeling is far more personal, lazy, incurious and self-indulgent than often realized. But the serious bigots and ideologues are supported and even funded by that side of it. Religious influence declines only as the unreflecting cultural subsoil it feeds on declines.

  9. Christopher in Canada 5 Sep 2013, 2:32am

    The best recommendation for the religious still comes from the lyrics of John Lennon’s IMAGINE.

  10. He is a filthy racist pig

    “I do know this, though: I’m done pretending that the handful of racist gay white men out there—and they’re out there, and I think they’re scum—are a bigger problem for African Americans, gay and straight, than the huge numbers of homophobic African Americans are for gay Americans, whatever their color.

    “This will get my name scratched of the invite list of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, which is famous for its anti-racist-training seminars, but whatever. Finally, I’m searching for some exit poll data from California. I’ll eat my shorts if gay and lesbian voters went for McCain at anything approaching the rate that black voters went for Prop 8.”

  11. BlokeToys 5 Sep 2013, 1:29pm

    It may be true that not all Christians are hateful, bigoted people, but unfortunately there are so many Christians that are, it makes much more sense to be suspicious of all.

    If you are constantly attacked by a group of people, all your life, then it’s to be expected that you learn to despise and distrust all of those within that group.

    We might all wish it were different (and I do too) but I have grown up in a world where every Christian I have ever met has been closed-minded, hypocritical, vindictive, passive aggressive, domineering, demanding, snide, insincere and generally not worth my time.

    When I meet a Christian who doesn’t make me want to flee from the room in a rage, maybe my opinions will change. Until then, I neither need nor want to try to understand religious people who claim to be rational while still muttering “you’re still going to Hell!”

    1. Christopher 6 Sep 2013, 3:32pm

      I was sorry to read your post. I had a similar experience myself growing up and found that too many religious people are bigoted and backward. During the AIDS crisis of the 80s they reacted with glee to the report that HIV might become airborne and that this would destroy the sinners. I decided to study Theology at college to disprove what I suspected was untrue propaganda from such people.

      The great news was I met lots of Christians who were not the bigoted hypocritical, vindictive, passive aggressive people you have, like me, encountered in life. My local church is entirely supportive of all and welcoming and known as an inclusive church. Its work is focussed on helping the less fortunate members of our community, providing cooked meals for the homeless, knitting them warm clothes, providing cheap fruit and veg via a cooperative. This to me is the work of Christians. Nobody there has any time for any form of discrimination or hatred and indeed it wouldn’t be tolerated.

  12. The “bad apples” argument falls flat when it comes to religion. If you identify as a “Christian” or “Muslim”, you accept the consequences that comes with that label. You must accept, like we do, that people are not going to “agree” with your “lifestyle” and will call you out on it.

    If you are a member of these cults, but don’t do anything to challenge the extremist views in your Church, Mosque, peer group of family – you are a bystander and you are NOT absolved of responsibility.

    It’s like me joining the Nazi party and saying “Well, there are some bad apples in the group, but I haven’t killed anyone! I just turn up at the meetings and clap when I’m told to!” – ridiculous

    The Religious folk who do challenge the hateful and prejudice views, those I can respect. Otherwise you’re just a bystander, and I hate bystanders.

  13. Christopher 6 Sep 2013, 3:19pm

    It is simply wrong for Christians to be anti-gay. Scripture emphatically tells us not to be judgemental, to love our neighbours and never once does Jesus even talk about sexual orientation. It is contrary to scriptural teaching to make statements against gay people, to leave gays open to any form of violence or discrimination, or deny them a bed in a bed and breakfast. As Cliff Richard said, he would leave the judging to God.

    1. If scriptural teaching is the issue, then its is simply right for Christians to be in favour of slavery and absolute monarchy, the subjugation of women, and to believe that angels disturb pools of water, amongst many other things. Sorry. It is all a lot of irrationally selective supernaturalist nonsense. And the folk in your church could do all the kind things they do without believing a big spook has told them to do it. Being an empathetic social animal is all you need.

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