Reader comments · Comment: Will LGBT people fall into matrimony with the arrival of equal marriage? · PinkNews

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Comment: Will LGBT people fall into matrimony with the arrival of equal marriage?

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  1. Peter & Michael 28 Aug 2013, 6:38pm

    Yes, we will be married as soon as the law permits, whilst in our 36 years together we have been ostracised by our community, refused a hotel room many times, mocked and spat at in the streets, but, no more ! Our Marriage will be a beautiful occasion and as soon as the law permits, we shall say ‘ I do’ !

    1. de Villiers 28 Aug 2013, 8:25pm

      It’s funny – I have a French PACS and would not want a marriage because it is too traditional for me. In France, of all the straight couples who choose to make formal their relationship, 52% choose a PACS.

      1. Robert in S. Kensington 29 Aug 2013, 12:03am

        That’s because French heteros had a choice of two different unions. Up until recently, gays didn’t. I expect the popularity of PACs to wane a little as more gay couples opt for marriage. Marriage still dominates no matter how many straight couples opt for something different. Alternate unions will never be the norm.

        1. Peter & Michael 29 Aug 2013, 6:44am

          Although a Civil Marriage for LGBT people will only be legal in England & Wales, anywhere else in the world this would not be the norm, until other countries accept SSM and bring forward legislation to recognise SSM from outside their region, we have still not achieved full equality.

          1. Robert in S. Kensington 29 Aug 2013, 2:56pm

            Well nobody gay or straight really has full equality if you use marriage as a single barometer. Divorced heteros who happen to be Catholic are forbidden a catholic marriage ceremony. Anglican divorced people where one is the instigator is also refused a religious ceremony.

            It’s not just marriage, but in the pay structure between men and women and the lack of parity between men and women in promotion to higher levels in the corporate sector. Just look at the political situation. How often do women become leaders of their countries? Men far outnumber women in elective office.

    2. de Villiers 28 Aug 2013, 8:26pm

      Sorry – 42%.

  2. Why is it that a gay couple getting married is considered “socially conservative” but a straight couple getting married is just a straight couple getting married?

    It strikes me as part of the prevalent “queer” shaming you get from people who decide that any GBLT people who don’t perform our GBLT-ness exactly as they do are somehow “selling out” or “not really GBLT”. And also part of how we can do nothing without it being analysed as part of a higher purpose – we can never just live. We can never just marry because we want to be married

    Does constant homophobic abuse – which is hardly limited to the past (certainly not the Tory party – were you asleep during their venemous rhetoric?) – make many of us wary of overall society? Yes, it certainly makes me wary. Which makes me MORE desirous of whatever legal protections I can claim, not less

  3. I’m actually hoping that the queer community will bring something grown up to the table of marriage; as in where a commitment to a person doesn’t mean you own them and therefore can within the boundaries of the personal rules of the relationship introduce other lovers or play partners. Hopefully we will still make our own rules as to what our relationship will be like,instead of following the Christian template, which is not the best one.

    1. ” as in where a commitment to a person doesn’t mean you own them and therefore can within the boundaries of the personal rules of the relationship introduce other lovers or play partners” What is the feeling of ownership is mutual? Personally I very much like the idea of belonging to someone ive fallen deeply in love with and vice versa, the idea of monogamy isnt something excusive to christianity and at a guess i would probably assume that it predated christianity.

  4. As soon as i am sure ive met the right person i will hopefully be marrying them, unfortunalty it may be difficult, within the gay community it seems to be the norm not to settle into a commited monogamous rationship.

    i am the sort of person who cant pretend to understand open relationships, i feel if you have met the right person than that should be it, you shouldn’t want anyone else. the whole idea of monogamy often seems to be met with hostility from many within the gay community and i worry that finding the right person to settle down with might be an impossible expectation for me.

  5. The irony being that U.K. has more openly-gay MP’s just in the Tories than the U.S. has openly-gay members of Congress PERIOD! Can gay people be conservative? Of course. But that is a subjective concept. Nobody thinks that radical left-wing men and women who get married are suddenly somehow “conservative”. The American right-wing does not give kudos to Barack Obama for being married as opposed to having a parade of “ho’s” going through the White House as if he were a rap star. Marriage is not, in and of itself, a statement of political stance. Plenty of right-wing people are promiscuous (albeit secretly in most cases) while plenty of left-wing people are committed domestics. LGBT people in the U.K. will now just be able to make the same decisions that straight people have always been able to make.

    1. It’s worth bearing in mind that the UK has nearly as many Tory MPs as the US does members of Congress – our legislature has lots of members by international standards, while theirs is quite small.

      1. You have 304 Tories in the Commons, out 650 seats, which *is* a very large chamber. Our House of Representatives has 435 total seats, plus there are 100 Senate seats. But my point still stands, just the Tories in the Commons have more gays than our entire Congress. Add in Labour and the Lib Dems and the contrast starts to look almost comical.

  6. Robert in S. Kensington 28 Aug 2013, 8:20pm

    Yes, there will be some, perhaps many gay people who will not want to marry, but there will be many who will.

    I don’t defend the Conservative Party but it wasn’t solely to blame for homophobia and discrimination. Prior to 1967, both Labour and Liberal Parties weren’t much better either and weren’t doing much to make our lives better. I give credit to Cameron for sticking his neck out against fierce opposition from within his own party. It took courage and integrity as well as leadership.

  7. de Villiers 28 Aug 2013, 8:23pm

    > One of the great flaws in Marxism is that it focuses too much on explaining history in terms of money and property, and too little on the many other things that contribute to human happiness, well-being and motivation.

    Yes. The other main flaw is that it does not work and is economically illiterate.

  8. Tom in Sussex 28 Aug 2013, 10:21pm

    A very interesting article by Gary Powell – lots of food for thought. It is written very much from a middle aged perspective (I don’t mean to be rude here) as the views were obviously shaped by a very different world and society than anyone under 40 has grown up in, e.g. the references to the conservative government of the 80s, which doesn’t mean anything to gay people born in the 80s and 90s – conservatives gave us all equal marriage – that is what is important today not the politics of 30 years ago.

    1. sorry I disagree that it is not important (although it may not be important to you personally)

      nearly half of gay people alive are over 40, so it does matter to them

      furthermore history is always important because we can learn a lot from the past about why things are as they are today

    2. Most of those of us who were born in the 80s and 90s would have been at school while section 28 was in force, and most of us were adults by the time the Tory front bench stopped being overtly homophobic.

    3. the Tory government of the 80s, when I was born, laid down section 28 that almost drove me to suicide

      And no, when LESS THAN HALF the Tories supported Equal marriage while the rest championed some of the most vehemently homophobic rhetoric we’ve seen in a while, we can’t just sweep Tory homophobia under the rug. Especially since fighting to keep section 28 is not something the Tories did in the distant past – it’s something they did in the last 10 years. And all of this “distant past” homophobia which is somehow irrelavent was perpetuated by people who are now in the Tory front bench

  9. While I respect that some LGBT couples want to marry, and as a result applaud the coming of same sex marriage, I have no desire to marry or be part of an assimilationist LGBT movement.

    1. assimilationist? Why do we have some sort of obligation to be different? many of us just happen to be gay and that’s it, nothing more. i dont like the idea that that means that i have to have a different lifestyle to everyone else and not be able to just settle down and make a commitment with a partner whom i love.

    2. Paul Essex/London 29 Aug 2013, 5:36pm

      “assimilationist LGBT movement” the term could just as easily be applied to some of the culture that pervades Old Compton St and Canal St.

      I may get married, I may not, but the reason for that choice will not be because I feel the need to pick a ‘lifestyle’ – I’ve spent too long on truly understanding that my sexuality isn’t one.

  10. Elston Gunn 29 Aug 2013, 2:02am

    This article seems unrelated to marriage. Rather like #Solidarityisforwhitewomen, we cannot ignore the fact that uniting under a label of sexuality is fraught with generalisations. My only plea is that we keep open minded and we let people follow their life path without judgement, but that we unite for the struggles that we face. So much about Gary’s piece was his need to define himself as respectable in opposition to others in the community (e.g. monogamy good/promiscuity bad). The scene doesn’t dictate life for all those who come into contact with it as if they were tainted – that would be a peculiar generalisation. Furthermore, is social conservatism an ideology that fits with our individual experiences? It seems to me that in embracing social conservatism (as an ideology entirely separate from marriage) we are just pulling up the ladder behind us. I fear a split is coming in the community, its been simmering there a while, and I wonder what the repercussions will be.

  11. We’ll be upgrading to marriage as soon as the law permits. It has to be said though that all our friends and family refer to what we have as a marriage already.

  12. It seems to me that those who have felt victimised by society all their lives have a reason to hang on to their anger, and the identity or way of life they built for themselves as a reaction to feeling ostracised. However, for the younger generation who perhaps never experienced anything particularly negative from their society, there was no reason to create or join a counter culture. I suspect there will be a divide, and the majority of those rejecting marriage will be older people whose wounds from an older society can’t be healed by a new one. And that’s fine. The mistake, I think, is lumping everyone together as the “LGBT Community”, when the very concept of that community, and its relationship with the rest of the world, means something different to each generation.

    1. Paul Essex/London 29 Aug 2013, 5:40pm

      Very well said.

  13. Jock S. Trap 29 Aug 2013, 11:24am

    Surely the only thing that matters is we now have the choice.

    What we do with it is just like everyone else… Choice!

  14. FWIW indications are that the BBC might NOT be looking out for same sex couples to get married in next year’s Marrying Mum and Dad

    Closing date for applications is 30th September 2013 –

  15. I think this is a rather pointless piece, I have to say.
    Why does it matter what individuals choose to do? Are we supposed to feel some form of “obligation” to marry now?

    I have no interest in a traditional marriage, just as many millions of heterosexual couples have no interest in it.

    For people who do, that’s great, more power to them and I’m glad they now have the opportunity. But I don’t foresee any miraculous or incredible changes in our culture, and why should there be?

  16. “in the 1980s, I remember the institution of marriage being regarded by many gay and lesbian people as a “petty-bourgeois” and patriarchal institution ”

    I was a young gay man living in the Castro in the ’80’s. The lack of marriage equality meant that my friends died alone and their partners lost their homes, their savings, their personal belongings and their dignity. The dream world Mr. Powell lives in where political posturing is more important than day-to-day life wasn’t the one we lived in.

    Stonewall, PN, G-A-Y, HRC all have a vested interest in perpetuating the “commercial gay scene” and will put the same effort into doing so that Welby puts into continuing the CoE.

    Meanwhile, my husband and I (33 years together) just want to get on with our rather average suburban lives in harmony with our neighbours.

    1. Peter & Michael 29 Aug 2013, 4:15pm

      You are quite right, the stark reality in those days that although Harvey Milk fought for those Gay rights and had been elected to the Council and then being shot dead because he believed that Gay people should have rights over each others property within a relationship. It happened here in the UK too, even on the eve of UK Civil Partnerships coming into force in December 2005, our friends partner died and the family came took possession of the body and threw the bereaved partner out of the house, leaving him with nothing.

  17. We’re not a monolithic block who all think the same. I’m about your age, and your experience of being gay doesn’t reflect mine or most of my gay friends. Like most people, gay folk just get on with life, hopefully challenging wrong when they meet it. Please stop from saying “we” when you mean “you” – most of us are happy and healthy, and if we want to marry, just like straight folk, we will.

  18. Mike wallace 31 Aug 2013, 6:55am

    Excellent article. The marriage laws I suspect will affect the generations differently. As a gay man pushing 50 I never suspected that such a law would make much difference in my life. Incredibly I felt extremely emotional. Despite all my confidence and bravado as a gay man underneath somewhere I think I felt not good enough. The message from world leaders that yes we are equal has taken that insecurity away. Being in the short-term satisfaction bracket, I doubt I ever will get married. But at least now I do feel equal and yes assertive and proud. And somewhere underneath all that is even a little bit of anger that I was made to feel inferior, albeit in a very small way, for so long.

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