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Archbishop of Canterbury: ‘My stance against equal marriage can be seen as wicked’

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  1. It can be seen as wicked because it is wicked. Just like his predecessor, just like his church.

    All the anglican church has ever brought gay people is cruelty and wickedness. but they do try so hide to cloak it and hide their hate as best they can

  2. “All the way through the debate on same-sex marriage, those of us in favour of the change always maintained that churches, synagogues and mosques should be free not to opt-in to same-sex marriage”

    Speak for yourself Benjamin Cohen. If an organisation gets to be bigoted then it needs to be penalised and ostracised. I won’t sign off on the “morality” of bigotry – especially on the Anglican church that is supposed to be “established”

    1. Few people have helped more than Benjamin Cohen to make marriage equality achievable.

      1. And that doesn’t change that I disagree with that statement and he isn’t speaking for everyone who fought for equal marriage

    2. I agree…religious institutions retain a privileged status in society in that they are tax exempt ie subsidised by the tax payer. By refusing to marry gay couples they are preaching we are not equal in their eyes. They do not have a right to preach discrimination, hatred and bigotry particularly when they are tax exempt.

      Welby and his cohort had a chance to play fair and they chose not to. I don’t believe for one moment he is repentant with regards to the way we have been treated over the centuries.

      Like the CEO of any organisation his prime concern is profit margin. And money is power. I think Welby is concerned, not because there has been a shift in how society views sexual behaviour but because there has been a fundamental shift within society against religion. As Henry VIII, and his Protestant successors, being the State, deprived the RCC of its privileges and position, so too now should the State deprive the C of E and all religious institutions of their privileges.

      1. I agree. Hats of to Benjamin for his sterling work for equal marriage but churches should not retain a right to discriminate as long as they are public institutions. Their tax privileges define them as such.

  3. Beelzeebub 28 Aug 2013, 4:48pm

    Ka-ching.

    The penny finally drops.

  4. And the Church get to pay no tax on any profits it makes so why has the Church any say in the matter? Because of outdated tradition.
    Plus, it is incredibly arrogant for religious institutions of any kind to claim that they define marriage. Are they they also saying that secular marriage is null and void?

  5. ‘ All the way through the debate on same-sex marriage, those of us in favour of the change always maintained that churches, synagogues and mosques should be free not to opt-in to same-sex marriage. This is their right.’
    If it’s their right they should be paying full taxes like others.
    I think, on that Benjamin, you are wrong.

    1. Faith schools should not receive any public funding

  6. Oh cut the crap Welby. Our community has been sick of you and your cult for decades. Fortunately, the rest of the population have now well and truly woken up to how pathetically stupid your church is. It’s no good repenting now. You had the chance to make a difference and you didn’t. You failed us all. You are nothing but a two-faced apologist. Deeds not words, Welby. Put your money where your mouth make a public apology for your disgraceful behaviour during the equal marriage debate. Until that day, just shut up about our community.

    1. *put your money where your mouth is and

      1. David Waite 28 Aug 2013, 7:54pm

        Sorry. Accidentally reported you while trying to thumb you up.

  7. I find it almost comical to watch the Church to struggle to find accordance between their antiquated teachings and the modern world philosophies of Libertarianism and Kantianism. Liberty and universal morality eclipses them hands down every time.

    1. Erm… people follow Kantian ethical code? For any non-sociopathic human, that’s practically impossible to even enforce >_>

  8. GulliverUK 28 Aug 2013, 5:11pm

    Religion is the root of homophobia. John Boswell talks about this on his Youtube video, and it happened around 1150 to 1250 AD, when the church suddenly turned on people who were gay. They did exactly the same to the Jews.

    Regardless of his softening no religious organisations should be allowed in the House of Lords, and the church should be disestablished. Nothing will change that. I felt that before the equal marriage debate, I’m even more convinced now.

    Welby has made himself very unpopular very quickly with the LGBT community and he’ll have to row back very fast and very far to have any hope of people taking him seriously. He voted against something which has no impact on the CofE and tries to stop religious freedom for those religions that did want equal marriage.

    Let’s see if he really does do something about homophobia in schools – in my view that was all talk. He’ll do nothing.

    1. I think you are right Gulliver,
      Welby is a business manager, he’s protecting his brand first and foremost… hence all the rubbish about listening carefully while insisting at the same time he is not changing his mind. “I’m listening carefully and I’ve got my fingers firmly blocking my ears”
      Religious pomp and prejudiceI…what an insufferable man.

  9. Furious back-peddaling has a very distinctive odour. Me thinks I smell it – plus a whiff of defeat. I, for one, will NEVER forget or forgive the homophobic persecution which has so mercilessly been handed out by christians over the years whatever pretend concilliatory noises they might make. The world is much better off without the divisions created by religion.

    1. David Waite 28 Aug 2013, 8:00pm

      Can I get an Amen! for the truth?

      1. Amen :)

    2. and another amen. We should never forgive or forget the fight against our rights put up by the Christian enemy.

  10. Welby, If some one was to ask, I could say the church of england is institutionaly homophobic as to whether your position is wicked, that is something you will need to decide through genuine introspection and examination of the real harm you are allowing to take place in the name of your church.
    To misquote a phrase you probably know quite well – By their misdeeds will you know them.

  11. Said by the head of an organisation who is paid a tax free income, an income paid from the taxes of hard working people who have no choice in paying their tax money to him. and head of an organization with billions in the bank, an organization that is free from annoying trivialities such as VAT. All profit, all mouth, and non-productive. Unlike the British tax payers, who are productive and hardworking that he an his organization hoover in their funds from. It’s called parasitism.

  12. PLEASE, SIGN TO SUPPORT EQUAL MARRIAGE IN ROMANIA
    http://www.petitieonline.com/vrem_parteneriat_civil_in_romania
    Help: prenume=first name; nume=family name; oras=city; tara=country.
    You’ll receive a mail and have to click on 2nd link to confirm.

    1. DCBrighton 28 Aug 2013, 6:48pm

      Enrique,

      What you are trying to do is commendable, but the way you are doing it is annoying and spammy. Perhaps reconsider your approach.

    2. Enrique, why do you persist on spamming every single news article? Do you not read the numerous complaints about your posts? The problem is not what you are doing – what you are wanting to do is fantastic, and should be applauded. However, we don’t like posts that have absolutely no relevance to the story in hand. I suggest you write to pinknews and ask for them to do an article about the issue of equal marriage in Romania. Please stop spamming now!

      1. Sorry if that sounded harsh, but I think it’s fair.

  13. de Villiers 28 Aug 2013, 6:40pm

    At the time of the gay marriage voting in the Parliament, I said that Archbishop Welby’s speeches were paving the way for him to alter the official position of the Anglican Church on homosexuality.

    What he has said here is entirely consistent with the direction in which he seems to be travelling.

  14. A cynical attempt at damage control from a man who has pretty much torpedoed his own ship. The message of intolerance and discrimination broadcast by him and his organisation in the run up to equality legislation being passed has received a wholesale thumbs down from society. Now with weasel words he tries to justify his opposition to equality. What a pity his message of love and inclusiveness is dripping with the homophobic sentiment that he still believes gay people should not be granted equality. Although, not that much of a pity. Anything that causes the CoE to haemorrhage members is 100% a good thing for society.

  15. Outrageously to paraphrase a popular jingle against Queen Caroline (estranged wife of George IV):

    O Justin, please,
    We thee implore
    To go away and bleat no more.
    But if that effort be too great
    Just bugger off at any rate.

  16. Openly Fabulous 28 Aug 2013, 6:49pm

    First we get Rowan Williams saying that his gay friends think he ‘let them down’ and now we have Welby saying the church should ‘repent’ for treating gay people badly, despite having just made one of the most bigoted speeches during the equal marriage debate!. What do they actually do to redeem themselves properly? Nothing. They do absolutely bloody nothing because everything that comes out of their mouths is hot air. Disestablish the Church of England now. We lobbied the Lords – now it’s time to lobby the MPs until this insane church is confined to history.

    1. DCBrighton 28 Aug 2013, 6:59pm

      Absolutely this! We will know them by their actions not their words.

      Why can’t Justin Welby hold a press conference right now saying “We have treated gay people appallingly. This is not the way of our religion any more, we are disgusted with our past and we embrace marriage equality”

      1. Openly Fabulous 28 Aug 2013, 7:35pm

        Exactly. He is a very weak leader and has very weak ‘principles’, if they can even be dignified with that name.

    2. Beelzeebub 28 Aug 2013, 9:39pm

      None of these edifices are churches.

      They are human constructs created to perpetuate power and control.

      This latest manager of this atrocity in this specific version of their cult, IE Welby sees the turning tide against his means of income and is back tracking on his verbal spewing.

      He is no different from the war mongering Imams in the middle east.

      He just has royal approval.

      Nothing more.

  17. Robert in S. Kensington 28 Aug 2013, 8:07pm

    Does anyone believe Welby’s faux concern about the way the CoE has treated us for almost 500 years? He has the gall to tell his followers to be repentant yet why has there been no formal apology from him for the centuries of discrimination, harm and violence towards us? Empty words in my view. Action speaks far louder than words but I won’t expect anything more from him.

    I sense he is feeling the heat after an overwhelming defeat in the Lords, the last place he thought the Marriage Bill would have resounding success and by the equally overwhelming support up and down the country.

    Marriage has NOT been redefined. All that this new law has done is expanded an already existing law to include gay couples, nothing more. It doesn’t alter the nature of hetero marriage one iota nor will it deter heteros from marrying in the future or procreating for those who so choose. Bloody loon.

  18. Homophobia isn’t wrong because society has changed its views on gay people. It was ALWAYS wrong, even when it was the norm in the same way that racism didn’t BECOME wrong with societal change relating to race. Racism was ALWAYS wrong!

    This man is trying to soften the image of his church with rhetorical gymnastics. He is very aware of how future generations will view him and the CofE. This is his attempt at rewriting his place in history books in advance.

  19. Justin Welby is a bigot in sheep’s clothing.

    His opinion on equal civil marriage is unwelcome and unnecessary.

    He can f*ck right off with his ‘god’ rubbish. Those type of superstitions have no place in determining the equal civil rights of other people.

    When is the Church of England going to be disestablished as the official state church, and those useless CoE bishops expelled from the House of Lords, when that rotten, undemocratic institution is also abolished?

    1. Jock S. Trap 29 Aug 2013, 11:31am

      Ironically he’s a bigot in a frock… and not the most flattering one ay that.

  20. I was initially unsure whether he was using the word “wicked” as its original meaning or if this was just another cringe-worthy, misplaced attempt by a member of the religious establishment to get down wiv da kidz in norff London, innit blud?

  21. ““If the same thing happened again I would vote the same way as I did then but I am continuing to think and listen very carefully…”

    Spare us the half-baked and windy excuses Welby. What exactly is the use of claiming you will be listening carefully when you’ve already said you will not be changing how you vote?

  22. “Earlier this month his predecessor, Dr Rowan Williams admitted he regularly questioned whether he had let gay and lesbian people down during his time in post.”

    “I know that is what a great many of my gay and lesbian friends would say that I did,” Dr Williams said…”

    He was a complete traitor to his friend Rev Jeffrey Johns who was forced to step down for being in a gay relationship just as he was about to be made Bishop of Reading… badly done Rowan, you’ve shown you are strictly a fair weather friend to gay people and when the going gets rough you have no qualms about abandoning those gay friends.

  23. He is a mental patient who participates in a mass delusion. Get a therapist.

  24. “Justin Welby told an audience of traditional born-again Christians on Wednesday that they must “repent” over the way gay and lesbian people have been treated in the past….”

    And still ARE being treated terribly by so called nice, religious people, forget the word past, all the churches are still in the present persecuting LGBT people for what they are are

  25. Of course what the Archbishop is seen as wicked; just as pretending to speak on behalf of God and thereby accummulating earthly power and political control can be seen as wicked. The whole instituion of the Church and the hierarchy of bishops are all instituionally wicked and anti-christian (in the same way that they are instituionally homophobic),

    The Bible is quite clear about all that.

    But being wicked can be great fun and plainly JW has no intention of changing anything.

  26. Jock S. Trap 29 Aug 2013, 11:29am

    Oi, do one Welby… there’s no “could” about it, it was plain and simple bigotry for all to see.

    All it’s done is make your church even more irrelevant.

  27. I absolutely LOVE the brainteaser the religious get themselves into, it’s excellent!

    They are so desperate to keep their closed-minded traditional interpretation (of a book that’s been rewritten more than 20 times by various people in power over the last 2000 years) but know that society is evolving to make them irrelevant.

    It’s excellent to see it happening, their influence diminishing, their followers on the decline, their preaching falling on deaf ears…

    He’s absolutely right, many young people cannot abide the cherry picked BS the religious use to beat people with, and they find it disgusting. But the religious cannot move on, they are trapped in a draconian and outdated club that can only go one way as society evolves.

    I long for the day when the religious are no more plentiful or powerful in the national landscape than stamp collectors.

    I hope they stick doggedly to their homophobia, because it will only hasten their decline into irrelevance!

  28. “Justin Welby does not make it better by saying on the one hand that he deplores homophobia and five minutes later practising it in the most disgraceful manner.
    If you put yourself up as a moral arbiter, you had better be consistently moral yourself. Mr Welby hasn’t got there yet.”

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