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Germany: Birth certificates to gain third gender option

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  1. The problem with this is not for those born with characteristics of both genders (which is 0.1% and 0.2% of live births). This will primarily be used by this growing group of silly fad parents who want to raise genderless babies. Later the child can determine what sex he/she is.

    1. Medically intersex is defined as not having distinguishing features of male or female – I’m not sure if that’s what you’re getting at, but I don’t see that applies to transgender individuals.

      Intersex can be determined at birth, and can, with this change, be recognised as such. However it’s really going to be up to the parents to decide, at that point, whether they feel choosing such an option will make issues more problematic, usually perhaps for them, and also whether to decide on so-called “corrective” surgery, thus potentially creating problems later on.

      Since gender identity is brain-based, then making some virtually arbitrary choice to ‘make’ someone physically male or female may then result in transgender issues later on, i.e. you can’t know the gender identity at birth of an intersex person, and so it’s really impossible to make valid medical surgical decisions until that gender identity emerges.

      1. Helge Vladimir Tiller 18 Aug 2013, 1:12pm

        Very good comment on this issue, GulliverUK ! An intelligent guy you are-

      2. Caveat:You are right about anatomical anomalies being discovered at birth however genetic intersex conditions generally manifest themselves later in life.

    2. “silly fad”= transphobia

      1. oh go away

  2. This is a decoy tactic from the real problem in Germany, the failure to give LGBTs basic legal equality.

    Considering Germanys well known history of violence against gays, I am not buying this decoy tactic.

  3. gentlemind 18 Aug 2013, 6:06pm

    It is not the job of man-made law to register us according to our emotions – only to physical reality. After all, if we give people the legal right to lie about their sex, then why should somebody not be able to “correct” their birth certificate so that it more accurately reflects how old they “feel”?

    And why should all men have to have the physical reality of their body legally ignored just so that a woman can lie about the physical reality of her body??

    If a woman can be a man in the same way that a man can be a man, then there is no need for three options. No need for two either. EVERY BODY would have to be a blank.

    The contradictions of Gender are beginning to make themselves clear.

    1. GulliverUK 18 Aug 2013, 6:38pm

      All laws are man-made, there are no other laws.

      You don’t appear to understand the term “intersex” Here you go, have a read, educate yourself;
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

      There are a large range of issues, as I tried to explain in my previous comment, particularly if a baby is intersex and a decision is taken to surgically alter their physical parameters without actually knowing what their gender identity will be – might as well flip a coin since you have a 50% chance of choosing the right gender identity.

      Someone who was born intersex could remain so for life, regardless of what gender identity they discover they are, or at that point chose gender assignment surgery (as opposed to re-assignment). In order to correctly manage society governments should be recording all pertinent information for planning purposes, and to identify individuals who may require particular legal protections and/or specific legislation provisions.

      Most of your post was gobbledegook

      1. Hello again GulliverUK. Nice to hear from you, but you are falling between two stools. You are not alone :) Gender, as a political invention, affects everybody:

        1. Everybody was registered according to Sex (physical), and nobody was registered according to emotion.
        2. Everybody is registered according to Gender (emotional), and nobody is registered according to Sex (physical).

        Gender currently demands that adults ASSUME an identity for a child. We might as well add a box asking the adults whether the child will be for or against staying in the EU. The assumption has to be removed, hence the introduction of a blank box. “Intersex” is a red herring.

        Logically, male and female have to disappear:

        If a woman and a man can (legally) be a man and a woman in the same way that a man and a woman can (legally) be a man or woman, then men and women are legally the same thing: how can we then be given a choice between two things, when the two are the same thing???

        1. PS: a man-made law can be broken and/or changed. The laws of nature cannot be broken, and so cannot be changed. Case in point would be the fact that no male can break the laws of nature to become a woman. Similarly, no two people of the same sex can sexually unite in marriage. And so on.

          Natural laws are the laws we should care about, since if our man-made laws contradict the laws of nature and nature’s God, then, by definition, it must be the man-made law that is wrong. Nature does not get it wrong.

          1. You can dress up what you’re saying as nicey nicey as you like, closedmind. Reality is, you’re a bigot.

    2. You come across as a sexist, misogynistic transphobe.

      Not welcome here!

      1. The example I gave was of a woman wanting to (legally) be a man. The same would apply to a man wanting to (legally) be a woman.

        1. It is not your example that makes you appear such, it is your pejorative language.

  4. Great move Germany!Bravo!

  5. At the risk of sounding rather radical, why should a birth certificate say the sex of any child?

    1. Planning purposes. Do you want to your government stats to say there are 60 million people in the country – we have absolutely no idea what percentage are male and female?

      If not on the birth certificate, where? That data needs to be collected for obvious reasons.

      But I like radical, so I’m giving you a thumbs up just for having the balls to raise the question. It’s obvious to me, but perhaps you are thinking outside the box and I’m not :)

      1. There are a lot of statistics that are useful for planning purposes, and I’d argue that the language the parents intend to raise the child speaking is perhaps more relevant to the government for planning purposes. After all, the government isn’t going to go far wrong if it assumes that half of children are girls and half boys. But in any case, the census exists to gather the statistics the government needs, and it can do it in much more detail.

        I’m am, to some extent, being devil’s advocate. But not entirely. As of next year, I’ll be able to marry anyone, irrespective of their sex, and I can become a parent with them. I can apply for pretty much any job I want, irrespective of my sex. The days of men-only pubs is long gone. It seems that my sex is increasingly irrelevant for official purposes. I would be shocked if my birth certificate recorded my ethnicity. Why should it record my sex?

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