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David Cameron tells Stephen Fry: I share your deep concern about the abuse of gay people in Russia

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  1. The gaggle of LGBTories who usually post on Pink News readers comments will now go into MELTDOWN!!!

    1. Indeed! They should all be hanging their heads in downright SHAME!

      Cameron’s DARING to claim that “abuse can be challenged by attending, not boycotting the Winter Olympics” is deeply embarrassing, and not only for British gay men and women but for human beings everywhere.

      When the family next door is known to abuse its children, do you accept their invitation to come round and party with them this Saturday night, for f**k’s sake?

      Of course you bloody well don’t! And you KNOW that, David Cameron.

      Cameron did push for gay marriage in the UK but he’s showing now that he’s not prepared to do any more fighting for the plight of LGBT worldwide. And why? Because of his odious Tory rank and file. They won’t have it. We saw what homophobes are among them during the build-up to the passing of the Same Sex Couples Bill.

      1. Jock S. Trap 10 Aug 2013, 12:06pm

        And what of the competitors, Gay, Bi, Lesbian & Straight who want to go to make a stand and show support. Are they to be mocked too?

        It’s easy to hide after all., isn’t it?!

        1. bobbleobble 10 Aug 2013, 1:30pm

          Not mocked just kicked out of the games. The IOC will not allow political protests or shows of support. They will have to hide their opinions or risk being booted. There won’t be any shows of support, instead the games will go ahead, Putin gets his propaganda coup and then the world leaves and forgets about LGBT rights in Russia and it will get worse, not better.

        2. Jock, if you believe that Russia will tolerate any kind of notable or effective protest or gay-pride action in the course of the Winter Olympics, you’re hoping for the impossible. To attend Russia’s Olympics will be to have to toe the Russian line. And that, I am sure you will agree, would be unacceptable, or should be unnacceptable, for any LGBT athlete, not to forget any humane non-LGBT athlete.

          1. Jock S. Trap 10 Aug 2013, 3:19pm

            You forget that the Worlds media will be there to see all!!

            They will be unlikely to get away with their disgusting behaviour like they think they have up to now.

            By just admitting you are Gay can get you arrested and this will be highlighted. Russia risks a lot.

            But nowhere have I stated a ‘gay-pride’ or indeed your idea of a notable or effective protest, which may be very different to mine.

            The smallest gesture makes a point and sometimes the biggest.

            At no point can we dictate to those willing to go, that they shouldn’t. There’s enough of that already in Russia.

            People have a choice and are free to make their own decisions.

          2. Jock S. Trap 10 Aug 2013, 3:22pm

            I know of two people going who have no intention of going back in the closet, they are going to represent the UK to be themselves and they are more determined to go now than before.

            They are brave and I salute them.

    2. Stephen Fry did not suggest a boycott of the games but for the games to be moved elsewhere.
      David Cameron has made a switch and change response without addressing whether the games could be moved.

  2. Well there you have it; clearly this is a very, very, very polite way of saying ‘**** off’ to Stephen Fry.

    Given the fact that gay people are likely to be in danger by attending the olympics, it’s really hard to see how prejudice is better challenged by attending.

    All his pontificating about gay marriage is rubbish if Cameron allows team GB to attend.

    A gay person-be they an athlete, team worker, spectator is NOT going to feel safe in Russia; that’s obvious to anybody with half a brain cell!

  3. “I believe we can better challenge prejudice as we attend,”

    And how do you propose to do that, Mr. Prime Minister? Are you personally going to wave a rainbow flag from the bleachers?

    1. There’s an idea!

  4. Ok mr Cameron and mr Obama. We be tit, your not going to boycot the Olympics but can you tell us what you plans are to challenge what is happening. epmty words have no teeth.

    1. Oops. We get it, don’t you love auto correct.

  5. Rasputin, the mad monk 10 Aug 2013, 10:09am

    I wonder if these repressive laws will galvanise people and create a vibrant gay rights movement in Russia. I remember that by Thatcher’s time interest in gay rights had almost fizzled out, until clause 28 came along and really got everyone’s back up. The rest is history.

    Such laws , in being a beacon of injustice, sometimes create the momentum they seek to repress.

    1. Gay Russian kids have already DIED because of these laws.

      What the f* are you talking about?

    2. Have you seen recent violent actions by Putin’s mobs? Cameron doesn’t give a toss about the Disabled in his own country, and passed a Marriage Equality Bill with so many exceptions that I wish everyone ‘good luck’ on his McMillan Treaty, conceding the “Sudetenland” to the Nazis. That was a great success, eh?

      And Obama? He can’t even get Congress to do its job! Do you think he will stand up to Putin? I would not place money on it.

  6. Jock S. Trap 10 Aug 2013, 10:13am

    After hearing several competitors I have to say that it would be even better to have visibility and support for LGBT people at the games than just vocal outside Russia.

    I was for a boycott but it would be worth more to be there and be visible.

    However I do also think that we should heed to the warnings Stephen Fry was putting across.

    I was appalled at the amount of British people writing “Good on Russia” even when explained about the deaths of children.

    Being vocal here is one positive thing but being visual in Russia and showing support is another positive.

    1. No I am sorry I disagree: it would be madness for any gay person to go to Russia at the moment. It would be Russian soil, Russian laws and Russian thinking.
      Really, it would be crazy to go there at the moment. The West have condemned Putin’s actions and he will bite back stronger.

      Being visible is laudable but ultimately foolish.

      1. Jock S. Trap 10 Aug 2013, 11:17am

        Well the world isn’t telling the whole story now are they?

        Many are reporting the anti gay law but not the violence but it’s something the world will not be able to hide from when the world is there.

        Being vocal is one thing but easy for Russia to ignore. Being there to support and make a point is one Russia cannot avoid!

        Hiding gets us nowhere and where is the respect for the Russian LGBT community… the respect and support the western world can give is by being there and not hiding ourselves.

        It’s not foolish for Gay competitors to be there is brave…. and if anything should happen the World will not be able to ignore it!

      2. Jane McQueen 10 Aug 2013, 12:18pm

        Actually it’s not that straight forwards, most athletes and members of Team GB along with all the other nations, normally travel on diplomatic papers. Which effectively means it is very hard for the host nation to arrest them, as it would cause an international crisis.

        So there is the possibility that the western nations could choreograph some kind of protest at the opening or closing ceremony to show solidarity for LGBT people in Russia, and around the rest of the world where they face persecution.

        Something that couldn’t happen if you stage a boycott. Remember the last time an Olympics was boycotted in Moscow and then in LA it didn’t achieve anything. Apart from total dominance for the home nations.

        You achieve more standing up to intolerance and abuse than you ever do running away and hiding.

        1. Well then I predict the following:

          Team GB along with other nations will turn up on diplomatic papers and none of them will get arrested.

          Meanwhile, Cameron will do nothing, there will be no protest at the opening or closing ceremony. The event will have take place and nothing will have changed.

          Although there is no way that I think gay athletes should attend because, diplomatic papers or no, there’s some very homophobic people in Russia. It’s OK for others like Cameron to be brave-let’s be honest he’s not part of the persecuted group-but I think it’s a bit much to ask gay people to attend when it’s THEIR (metaphorical) asses on the line.

        2. bobbleobble 10 Aug 2013, 1:26pm

          The IOC have already indicated that they would consider any protest, even a silent one such as wearing a rainbow pin, a political act and since political acts are banned, any pro gay protests could result in athletes being ejected from the games. So there won’t be any protests, there won’t be any displays of solidarity. The games will come and go, Putin will have his propaganda coup and the LGBT people of Russia will continue to suffer.

    2. What visibility though? Everyone keeps saying that – but absolutely no-one is saying what they actually intend to do at Sochi to increase visibility. I think its just weasel words

  7. From Cameron’s dismissive ‘gay people’ reply it’s pretty evident that he hasn’t even read Stephen Fry’s open letter – either that, or he’s too afraid to mention the Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender parts of LGBT. However, I’m sure that in his own mind, our prime minister views himself as a type of Churchill when all along he’s more in the tradition of Neville Chamberlain. From what I can see, such an egotistical state of mind seems to be common amongst our politicians: who was it who said in years gone by such people would often labour under the delusion they were Napoleon -nowadays they think they’re Churchill…?

  8. it is clear western political elite wont intervene in sochi winter olympics. they know rusian authorities, despite the threatening language used by some of their politicians, will make sure that visitors and those participating wont be harassed or prosecuted, just to prove the critics wrong.

  9. homophobic bbc at it again; bbc breakfast showed more interest in the subject of brides making the speeches by having at least two separate substantial live discussions on the subject, while sochi olympics and russia’s anti gay law was discussed briefly only once

    1. They are too busy showing repeats of “Homes Under The Hammer” and “Saints and Scroungers”, but will give it 5 minutes on the Day of the Opening Ceremonies.

      There was chatter that the BBC were looking to dump the Olympic coverage, something I support, but why would they care? They already receive monies from our TV Licensing, so they will go Status Quo.

      And when the mass killings begin they will respond with “we didn’t see this coming.” And we have no one to blame but ourselves. Three parties, one message.

    Help: prenume=first name; nume=family name; oras=city; tara=country.
    You’ll receive a mail and have to click on 2nd link to confirm.

  11. Beresford Moyle Rosser 10 Aug 2013, 10:42am

    If the Winter Olympics ARE held in Russia we need a campaign to SWITCH OFF so advertising revenues plummet. I have already decided I will not watch the games if they are held there under the current laws. But, I still remain hopeful that the games are relocated to ensure the safety of athletes and spectators. It is obvious Russia cannot offer that guarantee simply because of the way the authorities are turning a blind eye to the current abuse of our LGBT community there.

  12. Wonderful though Stephen’s letter was, we should be taking our lead from the LGBT groups in Russia. They are the ones who will have to live with the consequences and they are the ones who we should listen to most. Apparently they do not favour a boycott but want support from participating countries.

  13. hfdhvfvhjsrtgggg 10 Aug 2013, 10:49am


  14. he gaggle of LGBTories who usually post on Pink News readers comments will now go into MELTDOWN!!!

  15. People such as Putin do Not respect pussyfooting around! Meet him & his Government Full ON!Take the Games away from Russia, in disgrace,in front of the World & make it clear that ANY of the other despotic so called governments with like policies will get met with Big penalties too! Move the Games to Vancouver,to a Civilised Country Canada! The Monstous Ungodly countries of the World in Africa,the Caribean , Saudi Arabia, Iran . All need to be Confronted! Oh soory i foregot that Saudi has OIL! & the Monster Mugabe does not have any so he is not worth bothering about!

    1. Jock S. Trap 10 Aug 2013, 11:23am

      Where though in Vancouver? Like here in London their Olympic Park has been assigned to other businesses and their apartments to residents.

      It’s not practical to move it at such short notice. There would be nowhere to able to house and host in time.

      The best we can do is make a massive statement of support to Russian LGBT by being visible and making a stand.

  16. Firstly, it’s rather odd that his answer to websites such as Ask.FM is to boycott, but when it comes to brutal anti-gay violence, the remedy is quite the opposite.

    Secondly, I’m fine with his suggestion so long as he turns up wearing something that shows solidarity with LGBT Russians and violates the “propaganda” law. If you want to challenge prejudice by attending then actions speak louder than words.

    1. Jock S. Trap 10 Aug 2013, 11:27am

      The biggest problem we have is that the media isn’t reporting the brutal violence coming as the result of the Anti-Gay law.

      It’s only reporting the Law.

      It’s dangerous to be so naive and yes it does make it look like the LGBT community doesn’t matter.

      However those people going are willing to do so to make a stand, to make a point and for that I certainly will support them.

      If one gets attacked, the world surely cannot stand idly by and ignore it. It will be provocative and I doubt even Russia will want that but by those being there they can show LGBT values and support.

      1. I think I made it very clear that I’m cool with people turning up, including Cameron, so long as they do “make a stand” as you suggest. Turning up and being silent is quite the opposite.

  17. Of course we should be shouting and screaming to stop this state and church sanctioned hatred but Putin will never ever allow himself to lose face he would rather press the ‘button’ and destroy the world than back down
    Putin pouts and sneers at world leaders and tells the Russian people that the ‘West’ is trying to tell them how to run their country. He is a spiteful man with a large and powerful following both in Russia and elsewhere. Even here and in the USA.
    My heart aches for those being persecuted by this evil regime. Many will suffer and die. We need to be clever if we are not to put them at greater risk – millions have died before believing they could beat, evade or ignore their haters.
    This is more serious than sport. These games will happen what ever we do and then be gone but the hate for LGBT people will stay and we need to consider what’s best for those who will be vilified even more because of our actions. Work with those LGBT groups in Russia so as not to harm them.

  18. I agree with Cameron, being there LOUD and PROUD under VERY difficult circumstances will challenge the Russian authorities. Of course we should do everything we can to help our LGBT brothers and sisters but boycotting the event plays into the homophobes hands. It would be fantastic to see LGBT Olympians Win and WIN… this can provide role models to LGBT people around the world. I understand why people believe boycotting the games would be a powerful symbol but I think LGBT people actually attending and winning in the harshest circumstances is an even better protest.

    1. Luke, please specify here what actions you consider appropriate at the Winter Olympics so that LGBTs are “there LOUD and PROUD”.

      And once you have supplied that list, please then write a paragraph assuring us why you believe those actions will be tolerated by the Russians and by the IOC.

      Thank you.

  19. That’s moronic. You don’t have to choose between the two. But then again, I don’t think your post is anything about protecting children, but more about conflating homosexuality with things that have nothing to do with it.

    And seriously, “you gays”? Idiot.

    1. You’re obviously incapable of thought because you ignored or didn’t understand my initial point. If one aspect of a law is wrong, you remove that aspect. You don’t have to remove the entire law.

    2. Robert in S. Kensington 10 Aug 2013, 12:22pm

      Chris, is there any way the idiotic loser Keith and all of the other aliases he uses in this post can be shut down permanently? There are software programs to track an IP address and block it. Alternatively, perhaps PN should consider acccount holders signing on only through Facebook or some other social media?

      1. Jock S. Trap 10 Aug 2013, 12:45pm

        Agreed. I have to admit I am getting bored of this site. I left before because of the failure to stop this idiot.

        To disagree is one thing, we welcome it but his comments are blatantly homophobic.

        Being that we have to fight this discrimination in life I don’t see why we have to here.

        I used to try to get PinkNews to change it’s pages before but it seems PinkNews care less about it’s readers than most…. a shame really.

      2. Chris Ward 10 Aug 2013, 1:23pm

        It would appear that PN have removed the posts, which makes my above responses to them look like an unreconstructed rant, sadly. :)

        As for banning people, trolls will always find a way. IP blocks aren’t effective. I think the best thing to do is use the report button and/or just ignore them. The latter of which I have failed dismally on today.

        1. or PN could delete both troll comments and responses to it

        2. Robert in S. Kensington 10 Aug 2013, 3:00pm

          Thanks, Chris. Perhaps removing his posts and those of a similar ilk is a good step forward. At least we won’t have to be subject to being constantly reminded of his presence. It’s a huge turnoff to have to confront his hateful rants. He contributes nothing to any discussion but negativity in an attempt to diminish PN’s readership. I wonder if StonewallUK gets as much hate-filled, illogical comments?

          1. Anyone can see he’s a very, very depressed and very confused/conflicted individual who’s posts are nothing more than a flimsly mask to hide is inner feelings.

            You need to understand he’s not trying to convince us of anything, he’s trying to convince himself. He knows what he says holds no water, and nobody will take it seriously, but he must convince HIMSELF every single day before he can sleep soundly at night knowing he is most definitley not in denial, nope. no-siree, not me, no denial, no way, no how.

        3. Beelzeebub 11 Aug 2013, 7:26pm

          The police need to be involved with this individual.

          My gay niece used to come hear looking for like minded people and advice only to find the same homophobia she found in general life.

          She killed herself and this rag still allows these freaks airtime, albeit with a pointless report button.

          Publishing 101: Do not allow in your stories and forums the denigration of your target audience and those your paying advertisers are targeting.

          Keep this up PN and you will have zero audience and thus no advertisers willing to pay your wages.

          Read the commentaries and understand that you are becoming a homophobic news outlet that gay people no longer wish to

      3. Message the moderators but don’t mention him in the comments section and don’t respond to his posts.

        It’s attention that he craves.

      4. Some of us probably don’t use facebook, twitter or other social media.

    3. keith, homosexuality like heterosexuality is a sexual orientation, not a choice.

      adult incest is a sexual activity and a choice. those engaging in it can be straight or gay, because it is a choice it can be open to all sorts of scrutiny

      keith’s educator

    4. Jock S. Trap 10 Aug 2013, 12:39pm

      Well I’ve always known I’m Gay, knew from a very young age. Many like me then know now at a young age.

      Why should they be ignored? It’s a shame that it’s the young, not just the other people whose Basic Human Rights are being taken away just because of blind ignorance.

      Ignoring these facts doesn’t make then lesser facts.

      Also what about the children that are being kidnapped, tortured, murdered…. just for suspecting they may be Gay.

      Do you have such little regard for humanity or life for that fact!

  20. Helge Vladimir Tiller 10 Aug 2013, 11:43am

    Here we go again : Homophobia is everywhere ! In all countries in the world. There are right wing fascist in all Europe- even in gay friendly Sweden, Denmark and Norway. Forget it ; No country will boycott this OL due to these horrible New LAWS in Russia- NO COUNTRY ! Please be realistic !

    1. Helge Vladimir Tiller 10 Aug 2013, 1:04pm

      THE MAIN ENEMY TO LGBTQ PERSONS IN RUSSIA IS THE ORTHODOX CHURCH ! Putin sides with The Church—and about 80 % of people in Russia do so when it comes to matters related to homosexuality ! Sad but true-

    2. You may well be right, Helge, saying that no country will have the gumption to boycott these games, but that does not say that we should not mount a massive protest movement and demand that they do, does it.

      Anyway, I hold out hope that Iceland, at least, may refuse to play on Putin’s appalling terms.

      Putin is like that father of the household next door who invites the neighbourhood in for a Saturday night party but promises that while everybody’s there having a good time he’ll make an exception and won’t abuse his children.

      1. Helge Vladimir Tiller 10 Aug 2013, 6:32pm

        Of course, Eddy ! I’m a 100% homosexual–and I welcome all righteous demos. for GAY and Transgender rights. No matter where in this hard World they are taking place. Be it London, Moscow, Washington or China ! Right now, a World Championship is going on in Moscow. Where are the demos. ? Where are the protests? Nowhere ! If I had the chance to push “a button” and make an end to this coming OL Games in Russia, because of these anti-gay laws , I would have done that in a flash !
        Nice thoughts to you, Eddy !

        1. Helge Vladimir Tiller 10 Aug 2013, 8:04pm

          No matter how these questions are being twisted— The best way to work for Gay and Transgender Rights is through political parties in ones own country. By influencing politicians and so on, through groups or as a single individual.

    3. Helge Vladimir Tiller 11 Aug 2013, 8:12am

      Eight times “minus” for this comment. I’m honoured ! ( As far as I know : No Olympic Committee has suggested a boycott .( In any country ) ! Not even a single C. member ! The contracts are signed- the deals ( with private companies) are done ! It is too late. But make protests against these laws. I’ve done that in 3 Capitals already ! ( Pride weeks )

  21. How on earth do we fight Russia’s laws by endorsing them? Weasel words and dodging having to do anything about bigotry


      “The Mail still can’t quite live with the shame that it has always, always been historically wrong about everything – large and small – from Picasso to equal pay for women.  Because it has always been against progress.”


      This is Stephen Fry’s brilliant response to the Mail’s attack on his support for LGBT Russians. Showing the Mail and the right for the nasty, bigoted, spiteful people that they are.

    2. We can still untwin all the twinned towns around the world, we have 16 here to untwin, and boycott all Russian products. We can still boycott the sponsors, although that requires more thought, as some are LGBT-friendly. We should not go there, because it puts money in their pockets, but if athletes want to, that is up to them, and I understand that’s a difficult decision for them. We can still stir up so much controversy that the games and Russian’s laws are highlighted to all the public, nobody is unaware of what they are doing. Athletes going is one thing, nobody else should, in my opinion. I’m quite sure they will fill the stadium even if they have to pay their own people to sit there, but their hotels should be half-empty – it should hurt their economy. The image should be one where Russia, the games, and the IOC, are seen to be tarnished.

  22. When the IAAF World Championships began at 6am this morning none of the BBC commentary team said a word about anti-gay discrimination in Russia.

    Don’t expect anything to change at the Winter Olympics in Russia, because you can be sure that even Clare Balding will have nothing to say about the situation. despite her tweet about the likelihood of being arrested there –

    Basically, with indifference on the part of the media AND the athletes, the only sensible way to combat prejudice in Russia is to boycott the games.

  23. Maggie Edmonston 10 Aug 2013, 12:33pm

    Grow a spine Mr Cameron!! Nuff said..

  24. keith whats with your stuttering keyboard?

  25. Cameron and Obama are both avoiding the real problem here! The main issue is not about gay athletes and/or their safety. It’s about violating basic human rights in Russia ! So… which decent person on earth would still believe that such a country deserves to host olympic games ???

  26. The only solution to this problem is to boycott the sponsors. The IOC has made it clear that they are desperately seeking an excuse to dismiss the controversy, suggesting people will be safe while not able to prove it, and ignoring the obligation we all have to Human rights in Russia.

    Cameron has done the expected, like a sniveling little snake he is, placating people with mindless bull containing no real meaning.

    Athletes are more interested in their own selfish glory and in boosting their inflated ego than they are interested in the Human rights of others in Russia.

    The only option left is to boycott the sponsors. We need to create petitions, start campaigns, protest loudly and make sure that they know that if they back the Sochi Olympics their brands will be significantly damaged.

    If we could shift the boycott of Stoli and start to pressure venues to replace Coca-Cola with Pepsi around the world, it will send a very significant message.

  27. Warren C. E. Austin 10 Aug 2013, 2:12pm

    Mr. Cameron’s attitude, the same exhibited by a goodly number other notables, is so Neville Chamberlain; and, we all know what transpired when that lame duck meddled in World affairs in the name of international well-being and fairness.

  28. The World Athletics Championships are currently being held in Moscow. Now we have the opportunity to see if there is any type of symbolic stand taken by athletes.

    Hopefully there will be, but I won’t be surprised if the championships come and ago without any mention or reference to the fascist treatment of LGBT Russians.

    Russian authorities will ensure that international athletes are safe for the duration of these Championships. The international community will then think a problem doesn’t truly exist in Russia and any concerns our pleads will be brushed off as being LGBT ‘hysteria’ or ‘paranoia’.

    1. Sorry, I seem to be prone to making spelling errors when furious about something! Second paragraph: ‘come and ago’ should of course be ‘come and go’.

  29. I don’t believe personally a boycott by athleteswould do any good. But I do believe that our politicians and heads of state should boycott the event to make a clear statement that they oppose Putin et als vile treatment of their fellow Russians.

  30. People like him enjoy the distress or anger they cause, to them a person behind a screen is not like a person at all, so they feel no need to hold back. People like him also enjoy the anonymity that the Internet brings, I doubt that most of these people would dare make these comments in public. I bet you many commenters on the Mail and Express site for example would be horrified to be thought of as a racist. It’s a bit like when friends with like-minded views make racist or homophobic comments in a room and then somebody walks in, immediately they go quiet and the coversation is replaced by embarrassed downward gazes to the floor. Once the person has gone however, the laughter and bigoted jokes start all over again.

  31. GulliverUK 10 Aug 2013, 5:26pm

    It made the news on Smooth Radio, but I don’t know if any of the print or TV news carried it.

  32. It’s all about the money, money, money.

  33. Cameron’s done more for me as a gay man than every other Tory PM put together. Give the man a break. He doesn’t think a boycott will work. I may not agree with him. But if we are not going to boycott then there has to be another way. So rather than ranting about how dreadful he is, why not come up with some ideas that might work now we know that BOA are not boycotting. Getting all anti-tory isn’t going to achieve anything.

    I think that Stephen Fry’s new idea is a good one, a sign of solidarity from the athletes.

    What if the athletes held pink triangles up when they collected their medals?

  34. Are you aware that Russians have more sexual freed/oms than Britain or America or is the hom/osexual angle your only interest and not freedom to practice c/o’n/s/e/n/sa’ul a’d’ult sex?
    In Ru/s/sia, D’e-fac/to po/ly’ga/my is legal, as is b/est’ality, co/ns’en/s/u/al adu/lt in#c/e/s/t and ho/mo’sexuality.
    Since you would be jail/ed for three of those acts in Britain and America and likely beaten up for two of them, do you now realize that America and Britain are more oppressive against non tradi/tional relationships than Russia?

  35. Russia taking leaps into fascism flirting with the dark ages and disregarding human rights should be of great concern for the rest of the world. Unfortunately there are also countries in and around Africa that have turned even worse with death penalty for being gay. Kind of ironic since gay rights have evolved so much around the globe in other countries lately.

    Religion mixed with power seems to be the lowest common denominator. An article in the newspaper today claimed that it was now scientifically proven that religious people are less intelligent than non religious. Makes you wonder doesn’t it… :-D

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