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Department of Health ‘concerned’ by rising HIV stats for gay and bisexual men in London

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  1. Drugs are bad.
    Bumming is bad.
    Must stop them.

    PS There’s no such thing as “anecdotal evidence”.
    Still let’s hope these gravytrain charities get more funding by promoting hysteria.

  2. “New research published today in The Lancet shows there has been a sharp rise in the number of gay and bisexual men testing positive for HIV”.

    The HPA publish 2 figures relating to new HIV infections “observed” infections which for MSM in London stand at 1307 whilst the “adjusted” figure (estimate due to reporting lag) is 1720.

    These figures are updated every 6 months & it can take 3 or 4 yrs for observed figures to provide a more accurate picture.

    Whilst there is a clear increase in HIV infections in London (6% increase if using the observed data) we really do not know how much of this is due to increased testing & the effect of party drugs on new infection rates – day to day experience at GU clinics suggests party drugs are having a significant impact.

    We need further good quality data to convince Public Health Commissioners to invest resources into combined HIV / Drug use services amongst MSM in London

    Now is not the time for funding cuts,London Councils must get a grip fast!

    1. Was this not the data you demanded when I dared suggest in a recent PN HIV forum debate that HIV rates were still rising sharply (ie. uncontrollably), W6?

      1. I personally do not consider 6% a sharp “uncontrollable” rise in one year – we need to look at the trend, which for “observed” new infections has remained fairly consistent in the past 10 yrs. This data is only reliable with the passage of time as it gets more accurate. In 2003 the figure for “observed” infections was 1131, today it is 1307 which is a rise of 15% over 10 yrs – this set against a backdrop of increased testing. It is a complex picture & requires an appreciation of the wider factors that influence the figures (rise in online / smartphone hook up sites, easy access to party drugs etc).

        As you oft say e statistics can be interpreted in many ways – I am pleased that the party drug / chemsex issue is being openly discussed, but & am concerned about how the interpretation of stats will impact on MSM as a population group – I suspect it may have a negative impact going forward!

        This is a complex set of circumstances that needs to be handled by experts!

      2. Treasure this unique moment ladies, gentlemen and inbetweeners.

        For once ‘twould seem that Mr. know-it-all-and-then-some W6_Bloke is lost for words…

        1. Going for cheap personal shots as usual eh Samuel? Whilst I may not know it all, I know a great deal more than you will ever know, despite the inches I have written here to try & educate you! Unlike you, I am able to form my own opinion regarding the statistics that have been released today & I am therefore not reliant on the Lancet nor the Independent or Guardian upon which to form my own opinion – you on the other hand for all your claims of “free thinking” will just have to follow like a lost sheep any particular story that happens to agree with your rather outdated & out of touch ideology!

          I’m guessing you are unable to interpret the HPA statistic tables for yourself & form your own opinion! Stick to the English language you seem reasonable well healed on using 10 posh words where one simple one will do!

  3. As some of my Twitter followers have pointed out there are 5 newly diagnosed MSM in London every day & the majority of them have not been asked about their drug use. How are we to plan services for MSM when we do not have good quality information upon which we can urge Local Councils to spend money on appropriate services for MSM – another health inequality in my view!

    1. “…we can urge Local Councils to spend money on appropriate services for MSM – another health inequality in my view!”

      That’s the problem, W6.

      The PN cohort are fed up to the back teeth hearing your view views on all matters HIV.

      Is that not why you set up your Twitter feed:- so that those who DO want to kneel and worship at your altar CAN?

      We don’t want you here spouting your endless drivel and that seeks only to defend the HIV sector you grovel and kow tow to without a shred of indignation for the utter shambles they have left gay men’s health after three decades of sucking up millions in tax payer funds.

      Your shameless promotion of your Twitter feed on these open public boards is an abuse of what these boards were created to provide:- a free and open platform for the PN cohort to discuss the multitude of pink-hued topics that air here daily.

      Yet you come here with one agenda only:- as an apologist shill for the morally bankrupt, redundant HIV sector.

      We’ve had enough already!

      1. What you mean to say Samuel Bass (who claims to speak for the PN cohort) is that you are allowed a voice here on PN but I am not! You are the one who decided to advetise my Twitter feed here on PN & it seems you have done me a favour because my followers keep increasing by the day!

        Rather than lambast me here is (yet another chance) for you to get involved with HIV & sexual health – complete the online consultation AND ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE rather than troll me, THT & other HIV organisations. Here is the link if you can be bothered to actually contribute in an adult manner!

        http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/policylobbying/healthadultservices/hivprevention/consultation.htm

        I (and note I speak for myself not others) am fed up to the back teeth of you, your lies & deceit & personal remarks, so back off you buffoon!

    2. Another shameless plug for your Twitter feed which surely contravenes the conditions of posting on an open, non-agenda-driven platform.

      And when people do view your Twitter feed you then accuse them of being stalkers!!

      Your barking, audacious impudence knows no bounds, W6.

      1. If you were to have your own Twitter account then that would be fine Samuel, we could engage in debate there. It seems to me very odd, somewhat sinister behaviour when an individual views my public Twitter feed & then transcribes out of context quotes to another medium such as PN. I assume you are waiting for some tit bit of information that you can use against me either here on PN or elsewhere! I really do not understand the interest you have in my Twitter feed, most of it is total drivel!

        I note that you fail to comment (or apologise) on the posting that the moderators have removed which was indeed defamatory. It seems you continue to troll me here making inflammatory remarks, & I note on a different comment page regarding the very subject of online abuse, you are totally out of step with other commentators ar as you like to call them “the PN collective”.

        Out of interest have you completed the London Councils consultation???

        I suggest it is you that is barking……………….

  4. I don’t really understand when everyone is complaining so much about health inequality, at the end of the day, we gay people have comdons thrown at us al the time, every pub, club have got them and they are there to be used. Straight couples do not have this facility. My sister is straight is she always asking me for condoms otherwise she has to pay for them. The matter of the fact is that people just can’t control themselves. I live in Norwich and I don’t see many gay men doing drugs, but in London things are different, I’m actually afraid to go out in London due to the ammount of drugs being used in clubs, and when I go to the toilet I check to ensure there is no needles around. Do people really have to do drugs to have fun? I’m 34 years old and tried cocaine once, it was just horrible so never touched again…..but I really find it difficult to understand why people have to do drugs, Actually I find it pathetic and disgusting.

    1. judgemental twat. E is good for people with MS so is weed so to find drugs pathetic and disgusting suggests you should stay in the sticks

      1. Sounds like it’s time you moved out – you sound like an affected sheep of the Vauxhall variety, what a sad sad individual.

        1. Actually MDMA can be used for certain benefits and drug use isn’t pathetic or digusting. Alcohol is also a very damaging drug that leads to lots of unprotected sex, but because its legal people think its not a drug. Sorry, it’s still a drug. Therefore if you think people who use drugs recreationally are pathetic and disgusting, then I’d like to see how many nights of clubbing, weddings, funerals, holidays, weekends or evenings you could go without a drink. Then maybe you can look down on them, because until then you’re just as much a druggy as the rest.

          1. Well. I don’t drink. I do a lot of clubbing, wedings, funerals and all without a drink, I still have a lot of fun. Drugs are still pathetic and disgusting in my view as long as it is being used as a “fun” and not pescribed by a doctor. End of

      2. Lol. You seen to be a very angry individual, maybe the drugs are affecting you as well. Grow up get a life.

        1. this site is full off assholes. Do you think if gay people act like middle class respectable people we will be accepted?

          1. Or maybe stopped acting like cliché bitchy little queens, James???

          2. How well you know me

  5. Maybe, just maybe we will slowly admit AIDS is caused by drugs, illegal and legal ARV’s and HIV test is just a Trojan horse. Hard pill to swallow I know.

    1. stop spreading that lie – it hurts real people

      1. I’m a real person as well btw.

    2. Hard to swallow because it’s not true. I’ve never been into recreational drugs and yet still became positive from a one time lapse of safe sex. It would be great if HIV would disappear if we got rid of all drugs but, trust me, it won’t.

      1. Hiv has nothing to do with Aids. There is not one documented case of Hiv + person getting Aids without using drugs. I only ask for proof. Only facts.

        1. If HIV was only about drug abuse then, given the numbers of people who take drugs every weekend (and more frequently) then there would be far, FAR more people being diagnosed with AIDS.

          What you’re suggesting is nothing new, and back in the 80s, when far less was known about ‘AIDS’, recreational drugs were considered and found NOT to be the cause.

        2. What peer reviewed proof can you provide to show that AIDS is caused by drugs?

          1. What peer review did Robert Gallo provide? New York Times article? You can be HIV+ for 50+ reasons. Including hepatitis B vaccination. Who is vaccinated more then gay man? Do your research.

          2. Take your denialist clap trap elsewhere. You are promoting fear & stigma, go away!

  6. Yes, even as equality with the mainstream reaches new heights, so does intoxification with noxious substances and correlated rises in HIV infection rates.

    Now try telling me that a sub-culture of “party and play” gay men resort to such hedonist behaviours because they are hard done by and victimised by society.

    No, they do so because they are selfish, self-serving and lacking in respect both for their own health and well being and that of those they partner with.

    Nuff said.

    1. You said it best, SAMUEL. It’s disgusting how reckless many gay men are. Yuck.

  7. Furthermore it is ludicrous that the Dept of Health is only now making the connection twixt rampant hard drug use and rising HIV rates.

    Indeed our homegrown independent resource lifeormeth.com was making the same correlations over a decade ago and being smeared and shouted down for its efforts by the London HIV sector.

    The chickens are surely coming home to roost:- I wonder if Sir Nick has jumped ship before the full extent of the sector’s wilful neglect and intransigence comes to light, and in the face of firm evidence that, if acted upon years ago, would have helped mitigate the dire situation this story reports on?

    And I wonder just how many of these extreme sex and drugs weekend warriors use the THT’a hardcell.org.uk and drugf@cked.org.uk web sites as there “How to…” shoot up and f@ck raw guides?

    1. You may find this interesting to read Samuel, a blog post from an individual who has clearly worked very closely with changing drug use trends in the UK

      http://londonfriend.org.uk/montys-thoughts/the-rise-of-crystal-meth-in-london/

      A well balanced blog not like your reactionary founder of Lifeormeth Gary Leigh. Had Mr Leigh undertaken the necessary work to capture high quality, empirical evidence rather than rely on hearsay, rumour & anecdote, then perhaps as you say, we would not have been where we are today!

      I look forward to your appraisal of the blog post (assuming you bother to read it)

      1. Tell me, W6, how your friend Monty’s “wait-and-see” approach usurps the proactive act-now approach Gary Leigh took over a decade ago?

        What the Life or Meth texts teach us – and indeed what time has proven to be correct – is that when the anecdotal evidence is so apparent you can see the smoke in the hills, you DON’T wait for the scientific evidence and academics to confirm that the approaching fire needs to be fought BEFORE it can spread and cause the catastrophic damage it would otherwise cause.

        The HIV sector’s wait and see approach instead of pre-emptive action is why we now have a hard drugs epidemic correlated to HIV infection among UK men.

        No, I don’t agree with all that Life or Meth says:- it paints gay men who use drugs like crystal as victims of society instead of stating outright the obvious fact that that sector of gay men are selfish hedonists.

        But there’s more truth and courage expressed on each page of that site than the HIV sector is capable of mustering in a year…

      2. No comment on this blog item them Samuel – thought not! Same old Samuel Bass totally wedded to an ideology that is out of date, out of touch & plain wrong…………

      3. There we have it yet again – Samuel Bass is correct, everyone else who has a view on issues associated with HIV is plain wrong. You are a slave to the alter of Lifeormeth, because all the stuff you spout here is taken directly from that site. Gary Leigh has mentored you well to come troll & discredit HIV organisations & people living with HIV. You have referred to me as a schill – well it seems to me that you are poacher turned gamekeeper, happy to schill for the personal blog of Gary Leigh!

        What you fail to realise that like it or not outcome based commissioning demands good quality metrics & statistics to back up claims.This is where the problem is, you rely solely on anecdote & discredit any form of science or statistical information, simply because you have a lack of understanding.

        You nor I will change the Commissioning process, at least I do as much as I can to influence the outcomes of that process. You could to if you were not so wedded to your ideology!

    2. As always it is very good of you to advertise THT resources here on PN – well done you Samuel!

      1. What, you mean like how your Twitter feed provides a platform for Gillead Sciences to boast total product sales of $2.66 billion between April and June this year, up, incidentally, 15% over the same quarter in 2012?

        W6, your shameless hypocrisy and cheerleading for Big Pharma corporate profits on the back of the hand-in-hand wilful failures of the developed world’s HIV sector seemingly knows no bound.

        Oh, and for what it’s worth my advice would be to ditch the dish washer! :)

        1. LOL very funny; you may think it a throw away line that I have OCD about dirty dishes, but then you have often ridiculed people living with psychological difficulties. The reason I share the link regarding Gilead is not to provide a platform, but to inform others who take their HIV meds know how much money they are making in profits – I happen to think that Gilead are a greedy company, one of the reasons I stopped taking their drug Truvada to reduce the cost of my care to the NHS! I used my Twitter account to campaign against Gilead recently, I note you don’t mention that, I wonder why?

          I will be at the forefront of advocating the use of generic HIV meds when they become widely available, because the NHS must make the best of the available £ to ensure good quality care continues for people living with HIV

          You really are one nasty piece of work – do you troll other people who have Twitter Accounts or is it just me? What is your obsession about my Twitter Account?

          1. W6, let us be clear:- you make your Twitter feed open to the public.

            Therefore how can I be trolling or stalking you, as you have claimed.

            Clearly whatever meds you are taking are inducing a significant degree of paranoia on your part!

          2. You need to be very careful what you are writing here Samuel Bass as your attitude towards me is nothing short than disgusting & you are now clearly making accusations which you cannot substantiate!

            I will take further advice on this particular matter, as you are clearly suggesting that I am making fraudulent benefit claims which is a very serious accusation for which you have no evidence to base this assumption upon.

            What evidence do you have that I am not in paid employment – none what so ever.

            I suggest you make a comment to retract your latest remarks or I will take appropriate action against you, mark my words you have defamed me once too often!

          3. You are the only individual who looks at my time time & then places that information here on PN. This is not normal behaviour & I class it as harassment & threatening behavior. You are the only individual here on PN that consistently goes out of your way to aggitate me & now you are taking information out of context from my Twitter time line & trying to defame me with your ridiculous allegations.

            I will now for the second time in 2 weeks have to change my security settings which I should not have to do, all because you are a spiteful & decietful individual who wants to stop me contributing here on PN.

            You are a bully & you should be throughly ashamed of yourself- I will be seeking appropriate advice! Watch this space

          4. Erm, persecution complex anyone?!?

            And that’s rich coming from an arch agitator, antagonist and agent provocateur such as yourself, W6.

            All I have to say to the above is bring it on, via Legal Aid no doubt.

          5. The problem you have here, W6, is that as a system server you are used to controlling the debate.

            However want you can’t get into your limited skull space is the fact that PN forums are an open platform for ALL views, not just your own.

            THAT is what you are really constantly railing against and throwing your toys out of your pram over:- and the key reason WHY you set up your Twitter feed.

            So that you can spout your claptrap ad nauseum to other system servers programmed to obey the tenets of PC, and control the debate by locking out those with opposing, independent viewpoints.

            THAT is why your posting on PN boards using the same alias as your twitter feed is unethical and shameless.

            You have NO RIGHT to invade these boards and harass, bully and smear those who exercise independent thought.

            You are a social nuisance with no “followers” on here to speak of, so just give up, grow up, and crawl back into the hole whence you came.

          6. I suggest you take up your complaint with Pink News directly – if I have broken any terms & conditions they are quite right to sanction me. The ironey here is that you just cannot see how you are trying to stymie debate & control what is posted on these comment pages.

            You are not the PN moderator & I will continue to post my thoughts about stories that I am particularly interested in. I suggest you check the many email accounts you have before you make any further comments on this matter!

        2. Please take note Samuel your defamatory comment has been removed by the Pink News moderator. I have asked them to remove my replies to your accusations in the interest of fairness.

          I will take this opportunity to remind you that you do not know me as an individual & as such you are making comments that you cannot substantiate. I WILL take whatever action is needed to prevent you making false accusations about me.

          I will not warn you again, I suggest you respect my right to have a fully open Twitter account & to be able to post comments here without being personally trolled & defamed by you. By all means argue the point, but your personal remarks, jibes & accusations have no place on the open comment pages here.

          It is individuals like yourself that spoil it for the rest of us who want open debate that is reasonable & has some basis in reality & fact.

  8. Barry William Teske 25 Jul 2013, 6:09pm

    Agreed.
    But shaming will not work.
    The job of helping the gay male party community find a better sense of self should continue to be the top priority.
    Not an easy task when one considers the mountain of hate piled upon us for, well, I for one have lost count as to how long it has been.
    Marriage is a great start.
    Nonetheless, let us continue to work together to reinvent ourselves, and foster a healing within ourselves and our communities.

  9. Barry William Teske 25 Jul 2013, 6:13pm

    If I left anyone out of my idea of community, please accept my sincere apologies.
    Change is hard, but change is good.
    I choose change.

    1. So did Obama and look at the deep shlt he’s now in…

  10. Michael Stevens 25 Jul 2013, 9:35pm

    HIV increases are usually driven my a multitude on interacting factors – recreational drugs are disinhibiting, but lots of guys can get wasted and still use rubbers.

    Think of the eye for detail you need to manage your drugs? It takes more effort than putting on a condom. We’re all pretty good at putting the cap back on a bottle of poppers, or knowing where our stash of whatever is and not spilling it even if we’re peaking – drugs alone don’t explain why men don’t carefully and consistently use condoms. They’re a factor, but not the only one.

    1. I like to use drugs (definitley not meth though!) sometimes to enhance sex, or occasionally on nights out, but the truth is no amount of drugs can make you forget to put a condom on, or tell the person you’re sharing a NEEDLE with that you are HIV positive. Unless, of course, you don’t know.

      If you don’t use a condom, or share a needle, that’s down to your own individual (very unwise) choice.

      In reality there is no connection of STI’s or AIDS to gay men, drugs etc.
      It all comes down the the 2 individuals involved, and how responsible they decide to be in their choices. If you roll the dice, you risk the consequences and it’s as simple as that. If you’re too weak to wait or take a rain cheque because you don’t have the adequete protection, or you are too dumb to forget, or too ignorant to acknowledge the risk, then you carve your own fate.

      Let’s not forget alcohol makes people horny and stupid too, folks. Don’t need drugs to be a fool.

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