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Kaleidoscope Trust: Equal marriage could make ‘life worse’ for gay people in developing countries

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  1. Perhaps this is true. The arrow minded will always try to misuse good and use it for their own twisted reasoning. But should we deny ourselves rights for fear of how they could be used elsewhere? I say “no”!

    1. That was “narrow”‘ not “arrow”! Damned autocorrect!

    2. Well that’s exactly what he is saying to not do! To quote the article…

      ‘Mr Stewart said: “Of course, no one is saying that battles for same-sex marriage shouldn’t be fought in the West and victories celebrated.
      It would be nice though, that as we toast the successes at home, we don’t forget that the struggle for equality, rights and dignity continues elsewhere, and that it is not a struggle that is apart from our own”.’

      Those are very wise words. It’s all too easy to forget that whilst we may fight against injustice in the UK and the rest of the West. There are plenty of places where being LGBT is a living hell. These people deserve all the support we can give, especially those who are brave enough to stand up for the rights of all LGBT to live open honest lives with dignity.

      I often think what my life would be like if I were not lucky enough to be born in one of the more socially progressive, tolerant societies in the world. I’m sure I would cherish any support offered.

      1. I never stop thinking about those poor LGBT who weren’t lucky enough to win the lottery and be born in one of the few places they might actually have a decent chance. I never stop thinking of them. To be honest I found it laughable we were causing such a fuss over equal marraige when there are millions of people out there who are cuasing a fuss just for the right to live!

        1. Voted down what a surprise, apparently thinking about the lives of others in danger whils’t debating the privelege of marraige makes me a bad person

          1. vversatile 18 Jul 2013, 8:27pm

            It’s perfectly possible to celebrate our victories AND be concerned about the lack of civil rights in other countries. It’s not an either/or situation.

            That’s why you were voted down.

  2. While I see where he is coming from, the sad fact is that those countries who deny their LGBT citizens the rights we take for granted, are going to do it anyway.

    So does it make a difference what happens here in the UK and other countries?

    1. What the Kalaedoscope Trust doesn’t mention is that through the internet and social media activists and individuals will be inspired to know that a growing number of humanity see LGBT rights as human rights. They will see that Maori, Native American and Zulu culture can embrace the rights of same sex people. They will see that Lebanese Psychiatrists have declared homosexuality as a normal human condition that cannot be changed.

      Of course they are right that US evangelicals will seek to support repressive regimes as will the spread of islamism. But information and global communication is now almost within everyone’s reach, that means the truth about LGBT lives and love is almost impossible to suppress.

      1. I agree. The more countries who legally celebrate LGBT equality (marraige for example) the more pressure there is for those countries who don’t to re-think their position. These countries will soon find themselves alone in the international community and this might prompt them to think again.

        The internet of course has played a huge role in LGBT equality. Never before have people been able to talk so openly without censorship or oppression. LGBT who are suffering abroad might come on the internet and see how the other side live and be empowered.

  3. bobbleobble 18 Jul 2013, 3:17pm

    I’m not sure what to make of this. Whilst he may be right, what would he have us do? And the snide comment about gift registers at John Lewis was uncalled for, unkind and unworthy of a representative of a body that does such good.

    1. Quite. Advancements in Gay rights in the UK meant that I could get a civil partnership with the woman I love rather than see her have to return to her own country 2,000 miles away. I couldn’t give a flying f&*k about John Lewis and I don’t think we could even afford invitations.

      I do care very much about human rights all over the globe however, and the implication that people in the West don’t give a sh¡t is insulting. The current boycott of the Orson Scott Card film proves that people are aware that people like him are p¡55ing on Africa now they’ve lost the battle on the homefront.

      France had to contend with the American lunatics and Ireland will soon be inundated with them too if they aren’t there on mass already. So it’s not just the “developing” nations these American Psychos are targeting, they’re here in the EU.

      1. en masse ffs

  4. keith francis farrell 18 Jul 2013, 3:18pm

    This is so sad but true, what we need to be doing is making sure that all countries have equal rights, they don’t all need to have marriage equality to be part of the world, but we cannot allow those with gay hate laws to be part of our world. The only real way to get our message across is to withhold aid, and make sure that their leaders don’t have access to the international network, in other words travel restrictions. People like Mugabe should never be allowed anywhere within the EU, he34 should have been arrested as soon as he landed in Rome, for crimes against humanity. The same with that madman Putin, when he comes into any country of the west, he should be arrested as soon as he lands, for crimes against humanity. It is time that we make our governments take action.
    The commonwealth games are coming to Glasgow. Nothing is being said against those members of the commonwealth who have gay hate laws. It is time that this government woke up.

    1. Totally disagree. The more we impose our ‘rights agenda’—however correct it is—the more the West will be seen as evil colonialists corrupting local morals. Governments will seize the opportunity to whip up anti-Western sentiment. Most people in developing countries won’t care if gays have more or fewer rights, but they bloody well will care if they lose what little money they’re getting from foreign aid. Consequence: backlash against gays.

      1. Cutting off foreign aid won’t help make life better for the LGBT people in these countries though. The only thing that will help is improved education and higher living standards.

  5. Gay rights can’t be exported. They’ve only been able to advance in the West because of the individual rights revolutions of the post-War era of affluence. Elsewhere in the world the context is completely different.

    The most we can do is not stand in the way of countries developing, and hope their citizens become wealthier and more individualistic. As China, Brazil, and others show, that’s often a recipe for all sorts of liberations—gay rights included.

    1. Absolutely true and I’ve tried to make this point before. It’s no coincidence that the advancement of LGBT rights is linked to an improvement in living standards and education, at least here in the developed world. In the developing countries, particularly Africa, the power of the church holds sway and it was the European colonialists that spread the intolerance of Christianity here. Many African cultures were tolerant of homosexuality before they adopted Christianity and European laws.

      While many developed countries are throwing off the shackles of religion, the legacy of the missionaries conversions in Africa persists. The life expectancy in some African countries is below 50 years and illiteracy is a major problem, are we surprised that these countries don’t have the same progressive ideals that we do?

      1. I agree that applying pressure to anti-LGBT governments would be counterproductive and I’m also a bit uncomfortable with cancelling aid arrangements for similar reasons.

        I think the place where we can play a part is against the western-based religious organisations that sponsor much of the anti-gay sentiment (and sometimes legislation) in these countries. I don’t understand why they do it though. I mean what do they have to gain. I refuse to believe its motivated solely by principle; they’re must be something else- financial reward perhaps?

  6. Colin (London) 18 Jul 2013, 3:27pm

    It is time for religion to match the courage of the people, politicians, educators, business, etc who have stood up for Gay Equality and rights.

    The leaders of religious groups must stand tall, call for a halt to violence, disassociate themselves from their followers who do, and admit that 6% of the world’s population are born gay.

    Also that we are as worthy as anyone and contribute to this planet as much as anyone.

    Further and this is a difficult one.

    Leaders of the UN both together and separately in their countries must stand up to religion and hold it to account both at senior levels ie heads of the various religions, their supposed states etc at party level, at constituent level, at workforce and generally state religion will not be allowed to hold a progressive society back.

    History and where religion came from must not be allowed to hold this planet back.

    Name and shame those who stand by in silence as people die. Name those church leaders who are silent.

    1. Colin (London) 18 Jul 2013, 3:38pm

      catholic church, church of england and other religious groups, schools etc. And your followers

      You are squalid little people who hide away, bleet about your rights and ignore almost all the suffering in this world. You guys created this..al the death religion has caused lie at your feet….shocking, disgraceful and so wrong…modernise please…live in the world

      1. Colin(London) 18 Jul 2013, 5:22pm

        This includes the Queen, the Duke of Edinburgh, most heads of african states etc. It is time for a concerted effort by those who wish to be respected to face this and admit to the world that the past cannot and should not continue.

        We gay people at 6% of the planet population of 7 Billion = about 420 million people. almost 1.5 times the population of USA, over 7 times the population of the UK., equal to the entire population of Europe.

        I implore you the leaders face this and many issues on the planet will be so much easier.

  7. “American Evangelical Churches are abandoning the fight against equality at home, in favour of supporting homophobic laws abroad,” he said.”

    They know that they can’t combat reason. rationality and science so they seek to exploit the less privileged and less educated. Despicable.

  8. Is adultery criminalised in these countries that are referred to? Not a rhetorical question, I would be interested in knowing as adultery is condemned in the New Testament or does the usual cherry picking apply?

  9. Jacob Dugan-Brause 18 Jul 2013, 4:30pm

    No, I haven’t forgotten how it is around the world, but I offer another perspective.

    My former home of Alaska passed the first constitutional amendment banning ssm in the USA in 1998. Alaska has no state protections in employment, housing or public services and few protections at local level for lgbt people. What changes occur happen largely due to federal law.

    Yet in travelling the US, I found many LGBT activists unaware how often fundamentalist religious beliefs became cultural policy where I lived. Yes, these beliefs are now exported around the world, but they still have a home in all too many places in America.

    Because of this fact, Alaska will be one of the very last states to change, and it is in the ‘developed’ west.

    Let’s not make assumptions about inevitability anywhere, please. We all have work to do, and in some countries it’s terrifyingly difficult.

    I won’t forget that fact. Not for one moment.

  10. That’s some terrible victim blaming there, Kaleidoscope Trust. It is not our rights that cause persecution – it is bigotry, enraged bigotry, furious bigotry, hateful bigotry

    Wording it like this blames us for daring to be equal. It’s disgusting and I had thought better of the trust

  11. Robert in S. Kensington 18 Jul 2013, 8:16pm

    The fact of the matter is, with or without equal marriage, 76 countries have treated and continue to treat gay people very badly. They were bad long before The Netherlands became the first country to introduce equal marriage. I’m not so sure if I agree with him.

  12. All the more reason for the UK and other civilised countries to be a beacon for democracy and be a guiding light for other nations. We should be opposing and exposing hate and bigotry with extra vigour. Instead, our media fawn over religious bigots, never exposing the sinister ambitions of the equal marriage opponents. Our head of state drinks tea with Arab dictators. Peaceful protesters are carted off by the police when the Chinese are in town.

    LGBT people in the middle east and africa are suffering because of a revival of powerful fanatical faith. The free speech protection internet and social media is crucial for helping minority groups to make their case, mobilise, connect, and fight back.

  13. Neon Genesis 19 Jul 2013, 6:17am

    Christian extremists have been forcing their religion in developing countries for centuries so I think it’s silly to blame this on societal progress. What would this charity have us do? Give the victory to the bigots?

  14. Dimitris T 31 Jul 2013, 4:07pm

    This is a true concern, because a prominent argument, that homophobes use is: “look where this is leadind to”.
    Nevertheless -and I am writing from Greece, which is not famous for lgbt rights- how could somebody transfer the responsibility for atrocities with certain perpetators to those fighting against! That would be disgusting. I know where it is worse, we are in the middle. But the way must remain upwards.

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