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Terrence Higgins Trust: ‘Very few’ gay men will ever bug chase for HIV

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    1. Apologies for my post above…I was just a little bit stunned after reading this article

  1. @Cary James:- “Research has so far found no evidence to suggest that it’s practiced on any scale.”

    And what research is that exactly?

    My own research informs me you sponsor sex establishments – from saunas to
    extreme sex dens where condoms are abjectly shunned – with your “Play Zone”
    logo, seemingly designed to give such “playgrounds” an air of respectability
    while the safe sex codes attached to it are brazenly ignored.

    And don’t get me started on hardcell.org.uk:- funded by THT from the HIV prevention budget that initiates newcomers into the extreme hard sex world of barebacking, sc@t, bondage…

    THT has promulgated these wheezes via Boyz, QX, etc, thereby implanting the
    knowledge in the minds of youngsters susceptible to destructive behaviours
    exactly WHERE to acquire HIV.

    And when THT ads such as the THIVK campaign enforce the inevitability of
    contracting HIV in the minds of the vulnerable via NLP techniques, how then can you say no evidence of bug chasing exists?!!

    1. I’ve just looks at your hard cell link for the first time. It almost makes me want to take some crystal meth. Apparently is makes you feel –

      very horny
      euphoric
      more alert
      confident (sometimes invincible)
      impulsive
      less inhibited.

      Sounds good.

      And they recommend if you get ‘crystal dick’ (loss of erection), just take some viagra to ‘get over the hard on problem’ And also you should remember to wear more lube when on crystal meth, as sex is sessions will be longer and rougher (which I like the sound of), and condoms might break.

      There’s a sexy orgy pic next to it as well.

      I’m gonna research GHB next, but on first look, they’ve made that sound pretty appealing too.

      1. And now crystal meth is percolating within the underground hard sex/weekend-long “party and play” scene which threatens to spread through the mainstream UK gay club scene as has been recorded as occuring in the US and Australia a decade ago.

        We need to be asking some very important questions about those within the THT empowered and tasked to sanction HIV prevention initiatives and sites like hardcell.org.uk and drugf@cked.org.uk while ignoring gay men who need to be properly and effectively educated on HIV prevention.

        We need to know whether those with power over the HIV prevention budget and campaigns have conflicts of interest to declare about how they conduct themselves in their personal lives.

        Such inferences have been made on the http://www.lifeormeth.com web site, and if they hold true then the sexual proclivities and dalliances of a few have dictated HIV policy for the rest of us.

        And we are witnessing the devastation and fallout that has occurred as a result all around us.

      2. Crystal Meth “sounds” great sure, but I really wouldn’t advise it. I am a gay man who enjoys a bit of ecstacy every now and then, and feel it is sufficient as a “sex enhancer” in that sense.

        Do not touch crystal meth. It will ruin you

        1. Well the THT certainly enthuses about it on hardcell.org.uk.

          This from http://www.lifeormeth.com:-

          “From ’05 the physically emaciating campaign officer of one leading UK HIV charity who always said no to meth campaigns was a regular visitor to the north London home of the then main supplier of crystal into the gay community where drug-fuelled orgies often took place…”

          “Underground sex is fuelled by low inner confidence and is often sadistic, sometimes violent and occasionally deadly. It exists on the dark fringes of the scene and is covertly practiced by a minority of thrill-seeking, often older men… THT’s high-profile Hardcell.org.uk brought such disturbing, pathogen-facilitating acts above ground and into the mainstream gay scene for the first time:- its coverage in scene mags serving as a virtual recruitment campaign for under 25s.”

          Source:- http://www.lifeormeth.com/#/dirty-little-secret/4528808655

          Yes, THT has used tax-payer funds to create the very problems it now denies exist!

          1. You certainly are on a roll with publicising lifeormeth Samuel – if I was a conspiracy theorist I would conclude that you are a fully paid up schill for the organisation (now where have I heard that phrase before?)

            You could also be accused of being on the THT payroll as you are doing a great job of plugging their web based information services – well done you, keep up the good work ;-)

          2. If you’re quoting the hysterical lie machine that is lifeormeth.com then you really are thick.

        2. I was being ironic. It’s a shame the THT website I was refering to don’t give the good advice you did. They just make it sound cool and sexy, like i said above.

          1. That is the conclusion lifeormeth.com comes to:- that the instigators of such initiatives are allowing their private interests and activities to influence HIV policy, and the evidence is plain for all to see.

            THT has actively participated and encouraged the “sleazification” of gay culture, also by its refusal to make an outright stance criticising the proliferation of bareback porn, which a recent survey by GMFA concluded plays a major role in influencing and encouraging risky sexual behaviours.

            I think we need to start waking up to the fact that THT is very much the problem:- it most certainly is not the solution to our ills.

            It is time Nick Partridge and co. we’re held to public account for their betrayal of Terry Higgins’ name and their treachery wreaked on successive generations of gay men.

          2. I hardly need to add as an addendum why the THT would intentionally subvert its mission and create the very environments we now have today wherein gay men can lose their heads over a long weekend and be gang-f@cked by multiple partners whilst shooting up and slamming all manner of noxious compounds.

            Hardcell.org.uk was designed as a “how to” guide and now hundreds if not thousands of gay men know how to destroy their health thanks to this toxic site.

            The only beneficiaries of course being the profitable arm of THT – its HIV user services – and Pharma Co who can flog ever more drugs.

            And before W6 bleats “conspiracy theory”, any sane person can now see clearly that it is self-evidential fact.

      3. Carefully cherry picking from the advice on Crystal really is not very clever in my view, so for anyone who wants the full information THT provide on Crystal here is the link:

        http://www.hardcell.org.uk/en/lab/crystal-meth/

        There is plenty of balanced advice on the HardCell website, & I am very pleased to see you & Samuel B both advertising it so well, good on ya I say!

        1. If you think that website does anything to deter people from drugs or doesn’t fetishise STD’s, you’re living in cloud cuckoo land.

          Take the page on syphilis for example – a pic of 3 sexy guys ready for it.

          http://www.hardcell.org.uk/en/clinic/syphilis/

          I think pics like this would give people a better idea of what syphilis does to you –

          https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=syphilis&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48705608,d.d2k&biw=1600&bih=785&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=YBzcUayKKoOl0AXx4IGgDQ

          And the same can be said of all the other STI’s on the website.

          And as for the crystal meth page, please tell me the bit what would put someone off? In fact, when I write what the page says, people say, no don’t do it (even though I was being ironic) – tell that to THT – they need to get their message across better, because, with rising infection rates, it isn’t working. So the website you are defending is part of the problem. You need to wake up.

          1. I am just providing the balance to your argument about such websites – where should people get their information from? I do not subscribe to the view the scaring people will deter them, it may be effective for a small number of individuals, but posting the pics you have about syphilis is just extreme & is more likely in my view to make people switch off. Sexy Images get people engaged, why do you think there are so many in the weekly gay rags?

            If you read the complete information about crystal meth in both sections (Crystal Meth / Things To Know) any average Joe will realise that it is well balanced & factual – individuals then have to make their choices based on what they have read.

            There is plenty of poor information on the net about drug use & sexual health, where do you draw the line, do we just censor all this type of content? Open for debate I’m sure!

          2. W6 – the crystal meth page is not balanced. You’re lying to yourself if you think it is. Not once does it say that crystal meth will screw your life up. It doesn’t show any images of what crystal meth does to people. It advises you how to work with it, rather than tell you not to do it. It’s not about making something look cool and sexy and telling everyone how good it will make them feel and then say ‘make your own mind up’. This is why cigarette adverts are banned. And that crystal meth page is not far off an advert.

            I think the info should come from the THT, but they are failing – the evidence is in the figures – whoever came up with their advertising campaigns – and in particular that hardcell website should be sacked – (it almost looks like its been made as an offshoot of recon) – and a new approach needs to happen. And defending something doesn’t make that happen. If you defend that website, you are part of the problem and not part of the answer to cutting infection rates.

          3. We all have a right to our own opinions; ours differ widely. It is up to other people to judge which opinion they agree or disagree with. I certainly do not want a charity dictating to me what I can or cannot do in my life – sure provide me with the information & it is up to me to decide how to act on that information – personal responsibility no?

            THT may well be failing in your view, sadly that does not appear to be the view of the Department of Health & other sexual health commissioners who decide to spend public money with THT, that is how the system works in reality – go lobby your MP or your Local Director of Public Health, they are the ones spending your money after all.

            Do I think THT get it right all the time, no – but in the round I believe as an organisation they are doing a good job. Our HIV prevalence (0.2% of the population) rates are in line if not lower than many of our European neighbours.

          4. W6 – You’re right, it is sad that the department of health don’t think the THT are failing. They are. HIV rates are going up in the gay male population year on year. And you think the THT are doing a good job? Really? Cuckoo. Cuckoo.

          5. You are either extremely misinformed or your naivety betrays a lack of understanding of the intertwined revolving door nature of the relationship that exists between THT and the Dept of Health over the years, W6. and the conditions and terms under which THT was expected to adhere to and follow to the letter in return for lucrative DoH contracts.

            The clue is in the “Sir” as in “Sir Nick Partridge”.

            You don’t get two gongs in quick succession without having sold out to – and becoming a part of – the establishment.

            And where there are establishment figures there will always be shadowy corporate lobbyists waiting in the wings to bribe, corrupt and subvert.

            Come on W6, wake up:- you can do far better than that!

          6. Mark Y if you can provide specific evidence that proves that THT are a failing organisation then I am more than happy to withdraw my support of THT. As I have already mentioned HIV prevalence is 0.2% in the UK, which is in stark contrast to the US where it is three times as high at 0.6%. Does this not show that we are doing something right here in the UK?

            Why talk down the good work that is being done here in the UK to comat HIV?

    2. Agree – I worked on the helpline for 8 years and every time we got a call about bug chasing the 5th floor denounced it as nonsense – Research! – what research? they barely have the staff to conducted funded projects why would they spend time and money researching something that would give the HIV haters a perfect excuse to demand funding stop for all those (gays) deemed likely to have deliberated got themselves infected!

      Bug chasing is real and it is stimulated by young gay men who feel isolated and worthless (thanks society) – they feel part of a sub culture when they like so many others now are Positive and ‘Healthy’

      1. Must have been a good pay off after 8 yrs of service then JD (THT are a fair employer), but perhaps the redundancy wasn’t enough for you, so you have turned on the organisation that paid your wages for all those years.

        My experience when working as a volunteer for THT Direct would suggest that anonymous stats are gathered by both the the IT & manual systems, so a clear analysis of developing trends would be very easy to see, something the THTD manager should have been doing?

        Let us not forget all organisations have their failings, but I am sure you were happy to work within the organisation whilst they were paying you to do so.

        1. W6, you’d do well to consider the following statement from the above referenced source, because your time answering calls on THT Direct clearly didn’t afford you a great enough insight to know what at least partly influenced or motivated HIV prevention policy:-

          “Facing up to the unthinkable – that such double standards at the core of many sexual health agencies are contributing to a culture steeped in deceit and neglect, thereby fuelling the spread of the pathogens and correlated factors they are meant to be fighting – means casting aside the pious cloak of false concern that they invariably assume, and seeing through the veil of illusion that protects and enriches them at our expense.

          “It also means looking frankly at our own helplessness, gullibility and willingness to unhesitatingly accept and form of hypocrisy without question. Where the message being subliminally transmitted is to carry on barebacking regardless, to use meth and other disinhibiting substances with abandon…”

          1. You are missing the point Samuel – there are systems in place to capture information about calls into THT Direct & the management team would I am sure be using such information to back up their contract submissions – I simply do not buy into the collusion theory.

            I am guessing the quote is from Life or Meth – let us not forget that the owner of said site has tried in vain both here in the US to get funding for his project – all very admirable, but one has to ask why the owner was not successful in attracting a sponsor.

            I am surprised you are not asking JD why he didn’t try to change things from within THT – you have challenged me with this time & time again, & I was a mere volunteer – level playing field please?

        2. You’d do well to consider the following from the above referenced source, W6, because your time answering calls on THT Direct clearly didn’t afford you a great enough insight to know what at least partly influenced or motivated HIV prevention policy:-

          “Facing up to the unthinkable – that such double standards at the core of many sexual health agencies are contributing to a culture steeped in deceit and neglect, thereby fueling the spread of the pathogens and correlated factors they are meant to be fighting – means casting aside the pious cloak of false concern that they invariably assume, and seeing through the veil of illusion that protects and enriches them at our expense.

          “It also means looking frankly at our own helplessness, gullibility and willingness to unhesitatingly accept and form of hypocrisy without question. Where the message being subliminally transmitted is to carry on barebacking regardless, to use meth and other disinhibiting substances with abandon…”

          Too true.

  2. A 30 year old man known as ‘nick’ who is also probably heterosexual, and perhaps works for the sunday mirror?

    Although, I am aware of these ‘bug chasers’ and think they are stupid sick individuals who need serious therapy.

    But, I also don’t think that someone who ‘bug chases’ for HIV is not that different to someone who smokes and gets cancer, or overeats and has a heart attack, all paid for by the NHS.

  3. THT has no credibility as a HIV charity.

    It must sack its useless overpaid directors and be given a specific HIV reduction target, which if it fails to meet all government funding to it must stop.

    1. Are you saying that the Trustees & the Charity Commission are not over-seeing THT correctly? Why doesn’t the Government just remove all prevention funding if it believes THT are not performing? These are valid questions in my view, care to answer them?

      If THT was the sole provider in the UK of HIV prevention program then I think your assessment is a fair one – but there are many other organisations who also receive tax payer funding, are you going to hold them to account as well? In London THT are 1 or 6 providers contracted to provide prevention services at a cost of £1.1million a year, are you prepared to hold the other 5 to account?

      Like for like scrutiny is only fair don’t you think?

  4. You should have named and shamed the straight posh idiot who wrote this junk – Gemma Aldridge.

  5. I honestly believe that bug chasing is a myth. I don’t believe this is a practice that is persued often. If someone where to want to contract HIV as a form of self-harm it will be because he has allowed society to brainwash him into believing he is not worthy.

    1. So if someone has a mental illness it’s their fault because they are weak?

      That seems to be what you were suggesting when you typed out the following:
      “If someone where to want to contract HIV as a form of self-harm it will be because he has allowed society to brainwash him into believing he is not worthy.”

  6. The lesser spotted bug chaser is most often observed in it’s native virtual online habitat, seldom being seen in the wild, they are a very rare species in my view

    A few yrs ago, not long after my diagnosis I was intrigued by so called bug chasers, & took time to engage with them in online chat – the majority of them were fantasists, sitting at home getting off on the thrill of being “bred”.

    I called the bluff of 3 of them & arranged to meet, 2 confessed to already being +ve prior to meeting & the other was a no show – go figure!

    There is a nuanced debate to be had about those who just don’t care about contacting HIV (if it happens so what) & those who actively seek out infection, it maybe splitting hairs but I think it is an important debate.

    In my experience the majority of people with HIV most fear passing on the virus to another person & anyone who ever uses chat rooms will know that bug chasers get short shrift by those with HIV.

    It happens, not as often that has been claimed

    1. That is a very well argued post, W6, but similarly could it not be argued that a number of those participating in the rise of the extreme sex scene both at home and in commercial environments (I note another Recon party this weekend in London, for example!) – and who wilfully and indiscriminately allow themselves to be f@cked raw – are themselves bug chasing?

      They may well be negative at the date of their last test but have consigned themselves to the inevitability of contracting HIV as enforced in NLP-drafted HIV campaigns such as THIVK, and therefore give no thought to exposing themselves to the virus.

      THT through its subliminal messaging is virtually encouraging gay men to go out and seek HIV/bug chase so as to put an end to the fear and uncertainty of not knowing whether or not you might be infected.

      They may as well march around Soho announcing on a loud hailer:-

      “Contract HIV today and get on win your lives!”

      1. From the information I have about the party n play sex scene there is an assumption made (rightly or wrongly) that those who attend such parties are +HIV positive. Unless the “hosts” are explicit about this, then sure I agree that some negative individuals may assume otherwise, or consider it a risk worth taking for being “included” in the party n play circuit. Yes we have a problem with increased risk taking as a result of the sexualised drug scene, but we really ought to be looking at why people are playing russian roulette with their life.

        Muscle guys adorned with the latest body art are by far the biggest advert for the party n play scene, they portray the “ideal” that some individuals seek to aspire to – it is no good saying to a young gay guy don’t get involved when all he sees is a sexy hunks who looks great despite having HIV / HCV -that is how things are perceived by some.

        There is no easy solution to this problem, it requires a variety of agencies working well together!

  7. I’ve never heard the term bug chasing until I read this article. There may be a tiny number of weirdos out there who do this but certainly not many. I’m going a bit off topic but I really do question a lot of surveys regarding the gay community for a start how does anyone really know how man gay people there are? There are thousands and thousands of men out there who have sex with men and don’t even admit to it, never go on the scene to participate in these surveys, married men, curious men, bi men. When I read 1 in 10 gay men are HIV, I wonder how they managed to figure that out when possibly 5 in ten men who have gay sesx don’t even class themselves as gay or tell anyone let alone take a survey or HIV test in a gay club. There is a lot of scaremongering about and plain lies from all corners. I would like to see facts and how exactly people come to their wild and often exagerated conclusions.

    1. For your interest, Graham, THT was severely rebuked and censured when it became evident that they were colluding with their CHAPS partner Sigma Research to distort and misrepresent the findings of the annual Gay Men’s Sex Survey in order to portray THT in a favourable light so as to secure further contracts and funding.

      Rather than present the straightforward facts of he survey findings, statistics were instead distorted, twisted and blatantly misrepresented to serve the interests of THT and the compilers of the survey, Sigma Research, who received thousands in taxpayer funds to accumulate these stats.

      These sureys were purported to serve gay men by determining provision for future campaigns, but they ultimately served only the London HIV sector fat cats.

      That answers your question why they can’t produce a reliable or properly researched stat:- they are all plucked out of thin air!

      1. Please provide your evidence to support this claim Samuel, you are making accusations that I believe should be clarified & backed up with good quality evidence. Who “rebuked” THT, what was the outcome of the investigation?

        Please provide the evidence that supports your claim the THT have been awarded contracts on a false premise – if you can provide this evidence why have you not acted upon it? Reasonable question to ask I believe?

        All HIV surveillance comes from Public Health England (formally HPA) are you saying they are also providing incorrect information, if so please provide your evidence.

        That should keep you busy for a while me thinks lol

        1. With all due respect, W6, this is a matter of public record and the reason why the annual Gay Men’s Sex Surveys were stopped.

          Questions were even asked at Parliamentary level as to how public funds could have been allowed to have been abused in such a shocking fashion.

          You are either pretending to play dumb or are not as knowledgeable about the goings-on within the HIV sector as you profess to be, W6.

          I am sure a quick speed dial to your THT cohort will affirm this fact, unless they have sought to cover it up or are in a state of denial.

          1. Should be easy for you to provide a reference point then as we only have your particular interpretation on such matters.

          2. The only reference I can find on the net to what you are suggesting re Sigma Research comes from the life or meth site, so I think readers can come to their own conclusion about the alleged collusion.

            Te link provided on the Life or Meth site no longer works so it is difficult to arrive at an non biased view on this matter. If you do have other reference points I am more than willing to consider them.

  8. Yusef Azad, director of policy at the National AIDS Trust, said: ”It is hard to separate fact and fantasy when it comes to reports of ‘bug-chasing’. If it exists at all, it can only involve a tiny minority of gay men. Most gay men understand HIV remains a long-term serious condition, and transmission should be avoided.”

    Think this is a good example of NAT not really engaged in the very community it seeks to set policy for. “If it exists at all…”

    You couldn’t make it up.

  9. I think when the term Bugchasing originated it was questionable as to whether it was being practiced at all. However as this urban myth has perpetuated there is no doubt in my mind that some poor idiot will have bought into the concept and pursued it.

    My issues is that whether it is a myth or not, it represents a very strange shift in attitudes towards HIV. What does it say about the psychological impact the HIV epidemic has had on our community for this idea to arise in the first place?

    With regards to the THT, I don’t think it helps that when recent statistics revealed that HIV diagnoses were not decreasing, they launched a press release stating that an estimated 80,000 men had been spared of the infection. While the point may be true, the timing was poor and it didn’t help to combat this idea that the THT has become removed from the grass roots ideologies it was once revered for.

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/03/11/comment-hiv-policy-has-collapsed-and-gay-men-will-not-esca

    1. How do we prove that THT is failing on HIV? If they were the sole provider of prevention programmes receiving all the public money then fair enough it may be a correct assumption to make.

      If we drill down to the spend aimed at MSM specifically I would hazard a guess that THT receive about 30% of all funding that is earmarked for prevention amongst MSM specifically.

      THT currently receives £2.1million a year to provide the current “It Starts With Me Campaign” aimed at MSM & the African Community, it is supported by other organisations, notable Yorkshire Mesmac in the North of the UK. All other spending is currently in roll-over or been cut (as in London) as Local Authorities decide what prevention services to commission at local level.

      It is difficult to identify exactly what impact THT solely has on HIV infection rates & until someone can provide that data I will continue to support THT. I think that is a fair position to adopt.

      1. I think we’re better with them than without them, but that doesn’t mean they necessarily occupy an unassailable position within society where any, and all, criticism is invalid.

        We all want the same thing and a frank and ongoing discussion about the efficacy of numerous campaigns can only be a good thing in my view.

        1. I would agree with your comments, we should scrutinise THT & others, particularly in this age of austerity. We also need to scrutinise the commissioners & ensure they provide services to meet the demands we now see within Sexual health / HIV, Drug, alcohol & psychological well-being.

  10. what a strange article. I’ve only briefly skimmed the comments here and never let it be said Id be supporting the bull of a ‘Mirror’ journalist…..however, I used to work for a certain drugs charity in central London that dealt with men every single week who were so called, ‘bug chasers’ (first time Ive ever heard this term)so for THT to go so far to almost deny totally that this behaviour exists seems crazy to me….jus’ sayin’

    1. THT are not denying that bug chasers exist – which charity were you involved in, did they produce any research about how widespread the problem was/is? It would be interesting to get the charity perspective.

      I am sure there is no problem highlighting which charity was involved in this work

      1. W6, your attitude is entirely appalling:- people are not allowed to make any implicit or tacit criticism of the THT without you jumping down their throat and demanding evidence, and when they do provide it you then activate your well worn ploy of changing the subject rather than addressing the issue.

        Are you really naive or deluded enough to suggest the THT is beyond any form of reproach or criticism and should not be held to account for their wanton failures?

        You leave yourself wide open by appearing to be THT’s resident shill:- the overwhelming consensus on these boards is that THT is a discredited organisation masquerading as a “charity” and not fit for the purpose it purports to stand for.

        Deal with it, because your record has been stuck on the same groove since you started invading all boards of HIV relevance some 2-3 years ago.

        1. What is wrong about asking questions Samuel? You ask me plenty & more often than not I respond with a reasonable reply. You on the other hand very rarely take the time to research & provide factual, reasonable answers to perfectly reasonable questions.

          This is not a re-run of PMQ’s where only one person gets to pose questions, rather a debate on the prevalence of so called bug chasers amongst MSM. I am perfectly entitled to ask any question I like, unless you have now elevated yourself to official comment page moderator!

          There is scant impartial evidence to back up the claims you (& allegedly others) make about THT. At least have the decency to debate in a mature fashion rather than try to deflect & stymie at every opportunity.

          Leopards never change their spots, & thus I have changed my security settings on my Twitter account, I am not entirely sure of your motives & interest level.

          “deuce” is more than capable of answering my question without your input don’t you think?

        2. If individuals are going to make serious claims of wrong doing then the very least they can do is proved good quality evidence to back up such claims – I believe that is a perfectly reasonable to debate.

          Perhaps if you read some if my points rather than automatically voting negatively you will have noticed that I am more than happy to hold THT & others to account, all the way up the food chain. You prefer to stop at the monkey (in this case THT) & let the organ grinder (the commissioners) off without any such scrutiny – very odd in my view, we should be holding our Gov to account in the first instance don’t you think?

          1. There is nothing wrong with asking questions, W6, but you are clearly here with an agenda to refute all criticism of the THT come what may, no matter how foolish that makes you look in the face or irrefutable evidence of their atrociously inept policies.

            People should be mindful of the fact that you are pally with their bigwigs like Lisa (six-figure-salary-but-what-does-she-frigging-do?) Powell on your HIV Twitter feed, and therefore your contributions to PN HIV debates cannot be considered to be impartial because you come here not with an open mind willing to discuss their failings but with an unswerving “this-lady’s-not-for-turning” blind spot.

            In doing so you reveal yourself to be a part of the problem that seeks to disempower gay men and proliferate and exacabate the levels of base behaviours that our fuelling HIV rates and providing never-ending queues of user clients for THT’s profitable HIV services division.

            Deplorable, yet I know you are so much better than that.

          2. Forgive me if I get a little frustrated that when I pose very valid & reasonable questions yet there is never a forthcoming reasonable answer. You continue your personal broadside about my (now private thanks to stalker Samuel) Twitter account if you so wish

            Where is your open mind Samuel? Where is your believe that people should be free speaking, free thinking & free to make their own decisions in life. I do not come here to force my own special brand of conservatism, where everyone MUST follow the creed as dictated by Samuel Bass. Some people dislike using condoms, is this any of your business what others get up to in the bedroom, backroom or Recon party? As long as you consistently use condoms where is the problem?

            Safer sex for the majority of individuals is the norm, it is the best way to prevent HIV infection, some people choose not to follow this guidance – we should help, support, encourage, not treat those at greatest risk like lepers & outcasts!

  11. That bug chasing does and has gone on in gay communities in the developed world is an undisputable fact:- for THT to admit it occurs here in the UK would be a tacit admission of its failure to convey the true consequences of HIV infection and its inability – or willful indifference – to empower gay men to protect their health.

    I would advise everyone to watch the 2003 US documentary “The Gift” on You Tube which explored bug chasing and “gift givers” in San Francisco:-

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL73F495A8F56DA3F0

    They say we’re several years behind the US:- ask yourself, are the events portrayed in this disturbing documentary far different to the shocking stories we hear on a weekly basis today of guys participating in hedonistic “slamming parties” and the seeking of indiscriminate risky sex at events like Recon – given respectability by THT’s logo Hardcell banner splashed across its home page – and which are clearly directly correlated to the rise in HIV infection rates?

    1. Did you read the article Samuel – where has THT said that bug chasing does not happen here in the UK – as always is you embellish, mis-represent & consistently over egg the pudding. Lets be very clear here about the interpretation of a bug chaser – this is an individual who actively seeks out to become infected with HIV, I do not believe bug chasers are the same as an individual who has unprotected sex, there is a big difference. Bug chasers take steps to enhance transmission – I have heard of people using a toothbrush to damage the rectal lining to aid transmission as one example. Bug chasing is a form of self-harm

      Not all unprotected anal sex result in HIV transmission, MSM often employ strategies such as strategic positioning (being top), using plenty of lube, ejaculating outside the body, knowing that someone has an undetectable viral load, to help reduce the likelihood of transmission occurring – you may not approve, but this is what sometimes happens in the “real world”.

      1. W6, let me be unequivocal when I state that anyone – ANYONE – who makes a calculated decision to dispense with safe sex precautions is in effect bug chasing, or words to that effect (I will concede that the term bug chasing in itself seeks to glamorise potentially lethal behaviour).

        We need to accept that such is the extent to which the normalisation of bareback sex has seeped into our collective psyche and pervaded our culture – as aided and abetted by an HIV sector that ten years ago was pushing out HIV prevention ads advocating bareback sex (eg:- “Pull out and cum all over his back”) – that what was innocuously termed “bug chasing” in US gay ghettoes a decade ago is the prevailing pastime for a mainstream of gay men who today indiscriminately have unsafe sex with strangers they hook up with via digital media that didn’t exist back then.

        Every gay man today who wittingly has unsafe sex is, by definition, a bug chaser as influenced and indoctrinated by the policies of THT et al.

        1. That is your interpretation of a bug chaser – that is the spin you like to put on the term. Fair enough you are entitled to hold that view, however I am equally at liberty to hold my view on what I believe a bug chaser is defined as.

          What you are basically saying Samuel is that gay men who have unsafe sex are not entitled to make that decision for themselves – this is a pathetic portrayal of gay men, & it just underlines to me the control agenda you wish to pursue.

          Let us also be clear where your control & dictatorial agenda comes from – it is your irrational fear of acquiring HIV, you show classic stress signs of irrational thought processes when it comes to HIV. PN is not the place for you to seek therapy & have your conspiracy point of view validated by others – grow a pair for goodness sake!

  12. I think there are quite a few people, who for whatever reason, find it difficult to engage with safer sex messages. As a result, there is the idea that at some point, they will become infected.

    But that is a huge leap to call people bug chasers.

    The documentary mentioned, The Gift is a highly questionable piece of film making. Putting a few gay men in front of the camera, who say that there actively sought out a diagnosis, means diddly squat. And could certainly not be considered as evidence of reliable research.

    1. The situation in San Francisco a decade ago – and which “The Gift” attempted to convey (granted, not entirely successfully) – was that whereas in the 1980s HIV was a new disease that people were terrified of and those with the virus were routinely shunned and isolated, in gay communities – or “ghettoes” – across the US HIV has become the norm and it’s negative men who have become isolated and excluded from the “mainstream” and who face a pressure to dispense with condoms and bug chase simply in order to belong.

      This is a gradual process of assimilation wherein the human condition seeks comfort in belonging to the societal “norm” in order not to stand out and draw attention to one’s self:- to lose one’s individuality and freedom of expression to the prevailing consensus.

      Similarly we can see how hardcell.org.uk took what was an underground movement and popularised it via a web site that sought to titilate and normalise base behaviours, assimilating many into the extreme sex scene.

      1. This is your interpretation of the situation Samuel – a personal point of view, which you are entitled to express -however it is not fact, there is no data to suggest that Hardcell has changed behaviors in the way to suggest it does.

        Lets be very clear here, most of your material comes from the US, & all the conspiracy theory & criticism of THT comes from the much discredited Life or Meth web site – which far from being a reliable source of information is just a platform for the owner Gary Leigh to spout propaganda. Life or Meth is a fanciful blog & in no way reflects what happens in reality. If you choose to believe such drivel, then fine, but please do not come to PN peddling myth as fact & in the process defaming THT & other HIV organisations.

        We have limited resources, there are serious issues to be discussed, there is inequality in the health of gay men, yet all we get from you is the same old tripe – how are you helping? YOU ARE NOT!

  13. My my Samuel you have been industrious this morning – is trade a bit slow today at your ladies Boutique in the heart of Oxford Street

    1. To be honest it’s a little bit tiresome how stories about HIV become stories about Samuel B and W6_Bloke. Both of you now seem as bad as each other.

      He sounds like a creepy git stalking you on twitter, but maybe since you never seem to get the response you would like, you should stop banging your head against the wall by replying to him ad nauseam.

      1. May I correct you:- I am not and never have I stalked W6 nor anyone else come to that.

        Wherever did you get that bizarre idea?

        How does following a Twitter feed amount to stalking for heaven’s sake?

        This is not about me against W6:- as the point scoring system that PN utilises – and which W6 has attempted to manipulate to his advantage on many occasions, it is the entire PN collective against W6’s warped and misplaced loyalty to the London HIV sector, not just me.

        Glad to put you right.

        1. Since you discovered my Twitter feed you constantly refer to it here on PN, admitting to reading it every day, yet you refuse to open your own account.

          It is clear you have a personal vendetta against me & given your track record of online bullying you are not to be trusted with any personal information I post on Twitter.

          For you to make comments here on Twitter about my social network in the derogatory fashion you do only confirms to me you are a sinister person, who prefers to lurk on PN harassing people who do not agree with you & your warped view of the world.

          One last point it is you that have admitted to manipulating the scoring system – it is irrelevant but to you it validates your point of view, no conviction just hit air!

          1. W6, I mention your Twitter feed on each HIV-related forum to inform others that you come here with an agenda:- that is, to push the HIV sector party line and to stymie and silence all opposing opinion.

            You are a system server who repeats robitically the PC training indoctrination you have been programmed with by said system, which cleverly feeds you the illusion that you are right and us mere mortals are therefore wrong.

            I have attempted to appeal to your human side, which you display in droves towards your beautiful lurcher, Crumble.

            But when it comes to expressing compassion and humanity to your fellow gay man – or using your Twitter feed to advance the very real concerns expressed by many on these boards – you instead revert to form and really couldn’t give a damn as your allegiance to said system trumps all else.

            And clearly the health and well being of your gay brotherhood comes well below the level of dogs in your world.

          2. If you are so compassionate about our fellow gay men, why not put yourself out there & use social media to get your point over the the masses……….you have no compassion just self interest.

            Give me & the other readers one very good reason why you should not man up & show some conviction & get involved in the wider debate about the health of gay men, or indeed the health of society as a whole?

            Again we see your lack of attention to detail, Crumble is not a Lurcher, she is a Staffie/ Whippet cross & any interested party would know her sex which is self evident from some of the poses in the photos. You are the one to profess to be correct, yet on this most basic of observation you have failed miserably.

            I have no time for bullies, liars & those who think they are better than the rest of us – you have shown me all three of these traits on a number of occasions, so forgive me for not showing you the same respect I have for my dog, SHE has more balls than you will ever have.

          3. Let us also be clear you highlight my Twitter contacts as a spiteful way of point scoring & to garner support from a handful of others who are stupid enough to follow your lead when it comes to commenting on HIV related stories.

            I note you never mention the HIV clinicians, possessors & professional bodies I follow – are they all wrong about HIV science, treatment & expected outcomes? You are deluded if you think these eminent individuals have got it wrong.

            By all means believe the conspiracy theorists, but do not try to foist your hog wash ideology on those who don’t know any better – you are no better than the HIV denialists who have been responsible for countless avoidable deaths over the yrs.

            You are a shameful excuse of a gay man with no spine or balls!

    2. Sweetie, I wouldn’t be seen dead mixing with the Oxford St riff raff, even at the top end of the street.

      It’s Knightsbridge, dahhhhling, Knightsbridge!!

      And no, I wouldn’t be without my iPad mini bequeathed me by my wonderful area manager for the world, particularly when it enables me to stay one step ahead of you on PN boards twixt ladies’ apparel and men’s grooming accessories.

      At least I am getting out and about and socially interacting with the real world and not the faux but safe one you have invented in the ethers of cyberspace.

      Such a shame we always end up coming to blows like this as you are a likeable and thoughtful chap in every other respect, but your allegiance to THT and the autocratic policies of the London HIV sector is your major Achilles Heel.

    3. You are of course correct in your assessment Joss, we are as both as each other, neither wishing to yield to the others point of view – it must be very tiresome for other readers & at the same time it often shuts down serious debate.

      We should all be working together to help reduce HIV infection rates & that includes working with working alongside those organisations such as THT & lobbying for change where necessary.

      Samuel is not interested in making things better, he seeks to divide & rule with his agenda. Someone has to take him on & highlight the innacuacies & lies he peddles here on PN.

      I enjoy reasoned debate which can be seen where Samuel does not comment. He on the other hand is renowned for double digit negative ratings in many PN comments pages. He is a pest & not particularly in tune with reality. Nuff said!

  14. Common sense will tell you that only a very few would get infected to get more attention.

    Probably more than 99% would rather not put up with the daily drugs, the symptoms, the social stigma and the death associated with HIV.

    1. Under “normal” circumstances I would be inclined to agree with your assessment, Jean.

      But after two decades of HIV campaigns that have morphed from instilling fear about the consequences of contracting HIV to ads that glamorize, sexualize and fetishize the virus along with the supposed protectors of our health endorsing underground sex clubs and indoctrinating youngsters into that world via an A to Z web site that extols the thrills of myriad depraved, pathogen-fueling sex acts, why we are even having this discussion about bug chasing alas becomes all too self-evident…

      1. In your opinion……………………..only in your conspiracy led, pearl clutching, irrational fear driven warped mind. I know of no one else on PN who posts such irrelevant total Daily Wail style hog-wash!

  15. Benjy Bear 11 Jul 2013, 9:14am

    Thats why a record number of gay men were diagnosed with hiv in 2011 – source:
    PinkNews
    ACT UP LONDON – STOP THE COVER UPS

  16. Here is good quality evidence that confirms that unsafe sex amongst MSM occurs across Europe, & is not not just a problem here in the UK.

    http://www.aidsmap.com/Six-in-ten-European-gay-men-have-had-unprotected-sex-in-the-past-year-more-common-with-steady-partners/page/2689091/

    This is not the time to be cutting prevention funding, it is a false economy & will put additional financial pressure on both the NHS & organisations providing services for people living with HIV.

    As a population group MSM must work together to help reduce the incidence of risky sex, we must talk more openly about HIV & be less judgmental of those who find it difficult to consistently use condoms.

    1. For heaven’s sake, this counter-argument is trite and shameless even for you!

      You’re comparing apples with oranges.

      None of us here are concerned with European HIV rates:- we are concerned with how OUR health advocates are dealing with the spread of HIV on our home turf.

      GEDDIT?

      You forever use sleight of hand and smoke and mirrors to cover up for the despicable failings of your beloved HIV sector instead of addressing the problem itself.

      It’s clear you’re resorting to desperate manoeuvres to make whatever point you’re trying to make and failing miserably.

      Accept it:- you’re unable to process reasoned argument and when the truth gets too hot you resort to the tired old W6 ploy of deflectig the subject rather than addressing the issue.

      Your denialism in the face of irrefutable evidence makes you a key part of the problem, and that you promulgate your apologistic, whimpering views ad nauseum on your Twitter feed makes you a dangerous public menace.

      Despicable!

      1. Where is this evidence you keep referring to???????? I see no reference points to back up your claims, not one answer to my questions – how can you put forward a credible argument when the information you allude to is hear say, plagiarised propaganda, lies & out of date hog-wash.

        Get a grip, develop a backbone & grow a pair!

    2. Given that the UK is featured in this study – it is obvious you have not bothered to read it – in your very very stupid view every case of new HIV diagnosed should be laid at the steps of THT Gray’s Inn Road – what F@cking planet are you on????? You hate it when good evidence is put before you – resorting to the usual broadside we see in your last posting. The survey clearly highlights unprotected sex trends in Europe – we are part of Europe, HIV does not discriminate by border or country you total tool! How is this smoke & mirrors, the facts are there for anyone to see (all except you)! You are being completely naive if you think one organisation can bring down new infection rates – #OutOfTouch

      You must be completely gutted that PN is promotion HIV Prevention England at the moment – obviously the management of PN see the worth of the campaigns it is running this year – I hope the association continues into the future.

      The only person resorting to desperation is you Samuel Bass

  17. Back in the states it seems to differ from the UK peeps.. I have been asked over 20 plus times to seed someone. I will never allow this disease to be passed on to anyone.. Yes BC is still out there and going strong.. u should see some of the websites on FBand other places. .they are not hard to find them .. thanks so much for reading this.

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