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Pope Francis urges French delegates not to follow ‘fashionable’ ideas

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  1. ‘religious reality’

    Now here’s an oxymoron.

    For those folks who were starting to warm up to the pope after the last few items in the media… Why not ship yourself to the edge of the earth and stand in its corner for a while?

    It seriously is never going to change, the Catholic Church…

    1. GulliverUK 15 Jun 2013, 9:05pm

      I wish there was an edge, then we could all push them off it ! :)

      I’m quite happy if they never change at all, they’ll move further and further in to obscurity and eventually people will end up asking… “what ever happened to the Catholic church?”. The leadership is already singing from a completely different hymn book than their followers – yet again another survey of Catholics in the US confirm that the majority are in favor of full equality including equal marriage. Most people joined the church to do good things, to help people, and you have to be a particularly sociopathic twisted follower to want to do bad hateful things to people and claim that it’s Christian.

      Oooooh, I do remember that in 1992 they issued an apology to Galileo, even though he died in 1642 ! So they do change, but very slowly !

      1. GulliverUK 15 Jun 2013, 9:11pm

        Oh, and they don’t burn witches any more, … and even though we think they’d still like to, they can’t. And the old (nearly dead now) Pope (who apparently won’t now be arrested for Crimes Against Humanity) relaxed the use of condoms, in a very unclear way, possibly only if men are committing adultery with a prostitute !?? although many of his bishops are still going around telling people they cause HIV, or that they don’t work at all.

      2. I’m sort of with you here, that eventually they, and their ideas, will just die out but I’d honestly rather see them change, get rid of the doctrine and become compassionate. Would be the nicer route, no? Let’s also not forget that while their influence here is small (yet considerable) they hold massive influence in many other nations.

        I continue to struggle with religious folk who identify as whatever their faith yet object to (part of) its doctrine. Nice, but you’re still a +1, and therewith help them continue to have their power. I understand people having faith, but I will never understand being part of any of the major religions. They go completely against human nature, not only on LGBT matters.

        1. The route to compassion is via a rejection of superstitious twaddle. The punishment/reward god construct leads to fear, judging and shame, not love, acceptance and understanding.

        2. The “moderates” provide the power base even if unwittingly.

          They can believe the moon is made of cheese if the wish but they clearly want to impose on and influence civil law, even in secular societies.

    2. Pope Francis has had to accept a whole new level of “religious reality”. Frank Bruni’s op-ed in today’s NYT puts the focus where it should be:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/opinion/sunday/bruni-the-popes-gay-panic.html?hp&_r=0

  2. By suggesting the avoidance of “fashions” Deluded Francis is actually suggesting the avoidance of democratic will in favour of the lunacies of “religious spirit”.

    This man (who believes in a great big invisible pixie) has actually here spoken against democracy. But, of course, he would, wouldn’t he!

    1. The catholic church is still opposed to the “fashion” of women being seen as equal to men. When will we men put them back into the second class carriage and follow the “religious spirit”?

  3. PeterinSydney 15 Jun 2013, 10:08pm

    At least Francis has not used the vitriolic language of nasty old homophobe, Benedict. He could have endorsed the viciousness of the French Bishops. But he didn’t, thank goodness.

    1. He decided to soft peddle all the phobias so that hopefully people will just ignore him and he can get back to his boys !

  4. there is no excuse for having such out of date, unintelligent ideas about gay people, women, science, health care, care for children.etcetr

  5. I have a better idea, the Catholic Church should stay away from interfering with our civil rights.

  6. In other words…”Just let yourselves go”
    Pope Francis has certainly done that, what century is the poor old girl living in?

  7. ‘Spiritual leaders’ should stick to their job description and stop meddling in worldly affairs. Even though there might be two billion catholics that is still a minority of the world population, keep yer nose out Benedict

  8. oops Francis. Im sorry, they all look the same to me.

    1. Yes totally, old grandma’s wearing removable sofa covers.

  9. He says the church “would like to offer specific contributions on profound issues…” Please do. Please help solve world hunger, homelessness, child abuse, cancer, Alzheimer’s, heart disease…the list goes on.

    But marriage equality is not a profound issue – it’s a very simple issue – an issue of civil rights, equality. There is no need for the church to make this a profound issue. So stop meddling where your bigotry leads you.

  10. Being brought up a catholic and having a spiritual side to me it genuinely upsets me to hear this. It’s that fact that a massive part of my younger life is condemning me the right to marry the person I love.

    1. Unfortunately, you will have to suck on that.

      Your religion hates you.

      Your pope hates you.

      Your priests are told to hate you.

      You have suffered indoctrination. Your parents forcing THEIR religion onto you when you were a child as THEIR priests told them to do.

      See any patterns yet.?

      My Civil Partner of 8 years is only just realizing this despite education to the contrary.

      You can still have a spiritual side. Just divorce of it from that corrupt band of old men in Rome.

      1. Colin (London) 16 Jun 2013, 10:52am

        or any organised religion. Sect. …Spot on Sir

        1. Beelzeebub, I would go just a little further, and suggest to Paul that there’s no value in or need for “a spiritual side” at all and that ridding oneself of all “spiritual” nonsense does not mean that one cannot revel in and be satisfied by human feeling and appreciation of all this world’s many wonderful facets.

          Jettison the nonsense, Paul. They’ll pity you and say you have “lapsed”, but you will know you haven’t “lapsed” at all, that instead you have superceded the mumbo-jumbo and gobbledegook of religious delusion.

  11. Yes, because nothing says ‘religious spirit’ like taking away the rights of minorities.
    Bear in mind, your time will come, you backward loons. It won’t be long before you’re pleading for minority rights. History will remember your crimes against humanity.

  12. Wasn’t it ‘religious spirit’ which burned and tortured people during the Spanish Inquisition and the reign of Queen Mary Tudor??? Oh, and the Crusades of the Middle Ages.

  13. . . . the Pope stated: ”The church would like to offer specific contributions on profound issues … not only in an anthropological and social circles, but also in political, economic and cultural ones.”
    What the Pope is saying: He wants the rc church to be directly involved in the politics and policies of all countries, especially France.

    That should spell the end of the rc church’s tax exemptions. Tax the sh*t out of them.

    Headline from: National Secular Society, “Zapatero tells Pope ‘Spain is secular’” Published Fri, 12 Nov 2010. “The Spanish Prime Minister Zapatero reminded the Pope last week that Spain is a secular state after the pontiff attacked Government legislation on abortion, gay marriage and divorce.”

    I believe a Canadian Prime Minister also had to remind a pope that Canada is a secular, democratic country and to keep his nose out of Canada’s business.
    Are there any leaders who will stand up to the churches and religion?

    1. mmmm, if a Canadian Prime Minister said anything like that, it was quite a few years ago. We’ve been stuck with Stephen Harper for years now and that vile man is a religious fundamentalist who takes advice from evangelical preachers. He’s one of those nut-jobs who believes that once all the Jews are in Israel, the end of the world will happen and he will be physically lifted up to heaven.

  14. I wondered how long it would take before he started gay bashing. He might not have been explicit, but everyone knows what he is talking about. Still waiting for an apology for all the harm the Catholic Church has done to gay people all over the world.

    1. Colin (London) 16 Jun 2013, 10:56am

      Remember the catholic church is in it for the long term.

      Behind the scenes they are busy fighting back and using their influence worldwide with rich and politicians to maintain power. Do not underestimate its power.

      Only people power will show it for what it is. Walk away but keep your spirituality. That’s personal to each of us.

  15. The real question here is why are French legislators going to Rome to meet with him at all? Are they going to see the Dalai Lama as well? Or to Mecca or Jerusalem?

    And when they get all the input from all the conflicting world religions which laws will they go for?

    Public floggings? No women drivers? Throwing gays off tall buildings? Banning divorce and abortion?

    Or loving your neighbour as yourself? There are just so many options available.

  16. See, the reason the French are deeply secular is that they learnt the lessons of their past. Richelieu, a powerful cardinal and religious leader in France exerted excessive power over the French throne. Consequently, whilst being a very religious people, the French chose to separate state from religion.
    In doing so, I believe that they have created a much better society based on human and civil rights, where religion plays no part beyond personal belief.
    Francis… you’re a dying breed; accept that you don’t have the power over the masses any more.

    1. I have mixed feelings on the merits of French society, Daniel. Like you, I see a great deal in it that is superb. But everything I have believed about the French system has been rather blown apart by the recent ferocity of their homophobic element, a minority for sure, but a large one and so vociferous that one young gay man has been killed and others brutally attacked. French secularity doesn’t mean there’s as much rationality as one might suppose.

  17. Robert in S. Kensington 16 Jun 2013, 12:16pm

    Religion to be considered in lawmaking? I think bloody well NOT! Who does he think he is? France has separation of cult and state so it just f_ck or or just shut up. It’s bad enough with 26 anti-democratic loons sitting in the Lords.

    Describing equal marriage as ‘fashionable’ is offensive and proves how much contempt they have for gay people, our lives and especially our relationships.

    If he really is a christian which I doubt, I challenge him to sell off all of the cult’s assets and give the proceeds to the poor. That goes for Welby too.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 16 Jun 2013, 12:25pm

      ….so he should just f_ck off….

      http://www.LobbyALord.org

    2. justusboyz 16 Jun 2013, 1:57pm

      Well said Robert!

  18. “fashionable ideas” Like equality, women having control over their own bodies and the sciences exposing the fraud that is your bible..

  19. Robert in S. Kensington 16 Jun 2013, 12:24pm

    Religion to be considered in lawmaking? I think bloody well NOT! Who does he think he is? France has separation of cult and state so he should just f_ck or shut up. It’s bad enough with 26 anti-democratic loons sitting in the Lords.

    Describing equal marriage as ‘fashionable’ is offensive and proves how much contempt they have for gay people, our lives and especially our relationships.

    If he really is a christian which I doubt, I challenge him to sell off all of the cult’s assets and give the proceeds to the poor. That goes for Welby too.

  20. The Pope warns against fashions?

    IE – Same Sex Love.

    But yet here he is in the same day blessing a load of Harley Davidson motorbikes in Rome.

    http://news.yahoo.com/pope-blesses-hundreds-harley-davidsons-101554640.html

  21. Jock S. Trap 16 Jun 2013, 2:53pm

    Er NO!!!

    Religion and state should remain separate. The religious violence against us in France is proof of that.

    They need to remember religion is a choice. Being Gay isn’t.

  22. Deanna Joy Hallmark 20 Jun 2013, 3:17am

    My god and for christ’ sake, the Pope, who is also the Official Head of State of the Vatican, has no business to overtly or covertly” warn{ed} against the deeply secular French legal system disregarding religious belief or even to French law-maker’s “to make their decisions based on “a spirit, a soul,,,” when he covertly, as the Pope, means “Christian religious” values, in my opinion.

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