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Angela Merkel told to equalise tax benefits for gay couples by Constitutional Court

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  1. Michaelandfred 6 Jun 2013, 2:06pm

    Not quite correct on the adoption front. Gay couples still cannot adopt children together.

  2. Enrique Esteban 6 Jun 2013, 2:29pm

    Pls, sign to support equal marriage in Romania.
    Help to sign: prenume=first name; nume=family name; oras=city; tara=country.
    You’ll receive a mail and have to click on 2nd link to confirm.

  3. They’re not bigots, they’re “conservatives”, why all the euphemism?

  4. GulliverUK 6 Jun 2013, 3:11pm

    Germany is no bastion of equality and liberal attitudes, …. like I thought they were. I’m ashamed they haven’t learnt from history, their behavior has been reprehensible. If you want to see a society which truly values all people look at those who’ve legalised equal marriage rights – Germany is nowhere near that. I had always thought much more highly of Germans than I should have – I thought their role in WWII had taught them of all people that there must be no inequality, no unfairness, no one hint of their historical past. Clearly they’re not smart enough to learn those lessons.

    1. Lord "I'm not homophobic" Thug 6 Jun 2013, 4:17pm

      Germany saw the birth of the struggle for gay rights with the Hirschfeld institute in the 19th century. But the books, and I think the Institute, were burned by the Nazis.

      East Germany, briefly, legalised gay marriage in the chaotic period just before the Wall came down.

    2. Maybe you expected more from Germany, but I think you make it look worse than it actually is. Yes, we don’t have equal marriage, thanks to Merkel and her CDU/CSU, but with the latest decision of the Constitutional Court the only remaining significant difference between civil partnership and marriage in Germany is afaik the right to adopt children as a couple. And that’s probably the next thing the Constitunal Court will change. Then the only difference will be the name. Of course it’s a shame that this and other decisions had to be made by court instead by parliament. However you are somewhat lucky in this regard too to have someone like David Cameron as leader of your conservative party…with someone else things might be different in the UK too. With regard to the ILGA rating you quoted Germany was No. 2 behind the UK in 2012. In 2013 Germany has fallen back, which is a shame, but still “only” 8 countries scored significantly better.

      1. Actually a civil partnership system alongside a marriage system is never fully equally. Without marriage equality registered German same sex couples remain second class couples. Try getting a German civil partnership recognised internationally, I think you would find it has limited currency.

    3. Your focus on Germany feeling shame for its past doesn’t really enlighten anyone on the day to day lives of German gays today, in comparison to those in France or the UK for example.

      I’m not entirely sure that many gay people with experience of living in the UK and Germany would particularly agree with what you’ve stated here. Equal marriage is a large part of acceptance, but the blunt reality is that for decades Germany has been lightyears ahead of the rest of Europe when it comes to basic, dignified societal acceptance for LGBT people. E.g. walking down the street without having abuse hurled at you.

      Put simply, people comparatively don’t give a damn who or what you are.

      It should be remembered that it is a federal government with power in the federal lower house that cringes at the thought of tackling this issue. 12 left-wing-governed states like the idea. The federal upper house likes the idea. I don’t really understand why you’re laying this at the feet of the population?

      1. I am always suspicious of self ratings but really Germany – light years ahead of Europe ? I am interested in your non anecdotal evidence ?

        More generally regarding the wider picture of equality – have a look at measured of gender equality. You will find Germany has pretty mixed results, that despite having a female leader, in general the average women in germany does not do so well in terms of equal opportunity.

        Germany for all its wealth, could be doing better in terms of promoting equality. The Foreign Minister is right – it is time for policy to catch up with the reality of of modern day Germany.

        Perhaps what may be helpful is for German gay people to be less defensive and accepting of where their country is at and more demanding of equality. Global teh march for gay equality is on the move but it still takes activism to reach results.

  5. Robert (Kettering) 6 Jun 2013, 3:47pm

    I totally agree Guliver and had the same thoughts myself.

    Considering that tens of thousands of Gays and Lesbians were murdered by the N@zis you would have thought that they’d learned that lesson. Clearly they have not. Shame on you Merkel and your party of neo jack booted bigots.

    1. Of course… see “Germany” in a news headline and come up with WWII as reference, no matter how ridiculous the comparison is. In fact, I think this comparison is an insult to the victims of WWII.
      I’m a gay German living in the UK and all for equality, but I find it unbelievable how many Brits can’t help but pull this comparison at every opportunity. It’s time for a new stereotype.

      1. GulliverUK 6 Jun 2013, 4:19pm

        Prejudice against certain groups was how Germany got in to that mess in the first place — and pray do tell me, because I made that reference, how it is a ridiculous comparison. I’m the last person to use that reference normally but it is clear that the German government and some German people haven’t learn the lesson. After the atrocities of WWII, which is fully acknowledge by most German people, it is stupid and ignorant to still be treating some people as second-class — you people of all those in Europe I expected to have had a wake-up call and to be the MOST enlightened and tolerant. I was shocked when I realised you don’t have equal marriage, let alone proper Civil Unions. I had an idea of how I though Germans should behave, if I had been in their position, and I assumed they were completely tolerant, but now I learn they aren’t even as inclusive as we in the UK. I’d rather not bring up the war but it is the reason why I thought Germans would be far more tolerant.

        1. GulliverUK 6 Jun 2013, 4:23pm

          Also, do you think I can rally against those hate-mongers in Uganda, Nigeria, etc., and somehow just ignore the fact Germany doesn’t treat gay people as equals? No way. You might be part of Europe, but countries which are and don’t respect all their citizens will not find a friend in me. I held Germany in some high esteem before I realised, and was shocked to discover, they weren’t deserving of that level of respect. Mind you, on the ILGA scope they do badly, so I should have known sooner, but I’ve only really realised in the last six months.

        2. I agree with Eric. It seems that the history of Germany is brought up time and again when dealing with any issues like this. German rights have been light years ahead of the UK over the years.
          Let’s face it Gulliver, if you want to point fingers at the worst atrocities through history, you need look no further than the UK. The UK’s history is blood drenched, and yet it is never mentioned when bringing up matters of equality. You’d think that the UK had ALSO learnt from its history.
          Having spent many years in Germany, I find it a truly wonderful country, with infinite tolerance, open hearts and a warmth between people that I’ve never found in the UK.

      2. B. Fawlty 6 Jun 2013, 4:23pm

        Yes, don’t mention the War!

        1. GulliverUK 6 Jun 2013, 4:29pm

          I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it !

          I actually like Germany as a whole, but then I actually liked Merkel until I realised she was opposed to equal rights – now I hate her.

    2. They say countries like Spain and Portugal accepted it so quickly because they were trying to move from facism and rid themselves of that reputation by showing the rest of the world they are tolerant. Germany is the same, 75% support equal marriage; it just isnt reflected in the polls because the govt doesnt listen to the people, its the same in Finland

  6. Richard Mehringer 6 Jun 2013, 4:52pm

    Obviously it is time for Germany to move from civil partnership to legal marriage.
    Related: I wrote to Deutsche Welle, the international German tv station, about their non-reporting of gay issues. I have not received a reply so far.

  7. GREAT! But when is marriage equality gonna come in Germany? 74% GErmans support the idea! I urge German lawmakers to follow France and the UK

  8. GulliverUK 7 Jun 2013, 10:44am

    They’ve given in, no appeal, they will put forward legislation with the hope of passing it in time for September’s elections.

    Still don’t believe in equal marriage tho, so still many years behind other countries. Hardly progressive but getting there.

  9. Das ist sehr gut!!!

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