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Chief Rabbi abstains in House of Lords equal marriage vote

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  1. GulliverUK 5 Jun 2013, 2:34pm

    He doesn’t speak for Judaism, only a tiny branch of it. Liberal and Reform Judaism does do it, furthermore …“Rabbinical Assembly’s Committee on Jewish Law and Standards, which sets halakhic policy for the Conservative movement, has voted unanimously to provide the approximately 1,600 Conservative rabbis with guidelines on performing same-sex marriages.”
    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/conservative-movement-sanctions-same-sex-marriage-1.433911

    and Jewish leaders signed an Amicus brief in support of equal marriage, … so stick that in your teapot and smoke it.

    1. His branch of Judaism is by far the largest in the UK.

      1. GulliverUK 5 Jun 2013, 3:49pm

        Most of us have grown up being told bigger is better, but most of us have now realised that is entirely wrong. Small businesses, for example, are far quicker to develop and innovate — until they get taken over by big greedly capitalistic tax-evading big ones. Small groups of like-minded people can often achive great things that big organisations can’t. Bigger is not always better – often it can only maintain order by authoritarian dictatorship. Many religious groups thrive by having local management of their group, including wide-ranging powers to interpret thinks locally, like the Quakers.

      2. Yes, but UK United Judaism is hardly the biggest branch of Judaism in the world. In the US, with its much larger Jewish population, the balance is the other way around, with Orthodox Judaism being the minority and US Reform Judaism being the largest group.

  2. Those who abstain are cowards!

    You are either for something or you are not. Nothing good ever comes from sitting on the fence.

    1. On the Other Hand 5 Jun 2013, 3:44pm

      You sound like President Bush.

  3. On the Other Hand 5 Jun 2013, 2:41pm

    From the list on Hansard it looks like 10 bishops plus Carey voted for the wrecking amendment, despite being asked to only have six there and saying they would abstain. Also strange that on TV I could only see 7 of them there in their garb. It’s a shame that the one who spoke out recently in favour of equality wasn’t there to vote.

    1. GulliverUK 5 Jun 2013, 2:55pm

      That is absolutely disgusting and what I feared – there will be blow-back against the Church of England, and particularly Welby, for decades. Welby is absolutely hopeless. He’s no intellectual, hasn’t got much of an idea about theology, is easy manipulated by traditionalists and evangelicals and is far too homophobic and intolerant. Regardless of how the vote goes people want, by a majority, those Bishops OUT of Parliament – they have absolutely no right to be there, not that most of the others have any sort of right either. I saw 10 there in the debate and wondered what the hell was going on — Jack-booted Nazis all dressed in smocks, like thugs at a football match. My feelings about the Church of England are real anger now. I rarely feel real anger but now I do. And all this when there are still more child abuse scandals rocking the Church of England.

      1. On the Other Hand 5 Jun 2013, 3:42pm

        I agree that they shouldn’t be there, or at least limited to 1 representative like other faiths, and add notable atheists and agnostics too, but I don’t see this guy as homophobic, I think he is genuinely sickened by homophobia, but at the same time can’t see perhaps that he is being manipulated by homophobes. Unfortunately it also seems he is willing to put dogma before humanity.

    2. Christopher Hobe Morrison 5 Jun 2013, 3:42pm

      This is truly disgusting. The bishop who spoke in favour of equality and then didn’t show up probably had something better to do, like maybe a root canal. But this is an amendment that said the same sex marriage bill had no merit whatsoever and didn’t deserve to be in Parliament so this goes beyong mere opposition. Nobody had any excuse to vote for it.

    3. Paul Halsall 6 Jun 2013, 10:16am

      The bishop who spoke out recently does not yet have a seat in the Lords. 26 do, so most did abstain.

  4. On the Other Hand 5 Jun 2013, 2:43pm

    So it looks like the CoE used its block vote to try and overrule the House of Commons. Hmmmm.

    1. That There Other David 5 Jun 2013, 3:02pm

      They need to be ousted. Disestablish now!

  5. On the Other Hand 5 Jun 2013, 2:51pm

    The Bishops voting to wreck the Bill were:

    Birmingham, Bp.
    Bristol, Bp.
    Canterbury, Abp.
    Chester, Bp.
    Coventry, Bp.
    Exeter, Bp.
    Hereford, Bp.
    London, Bp.
    Winchester, Bp
    + Lord Carey (former Apb.)

    1. Flying Goose 5 Jun 2013, 3:28pm

      However the former Bishop of Oxford, Richard Harries voted in favour.
      The Bishop of Salisbury, who is in favour (see comment above), is not yet eligible to sit in the house.

  6. “In Judaism we don’t do it” has got to be one of the silliest answers around. He wasn’t being asked about modifications to Jewish law or custom, but for UK civil law.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if “In Judaism we don’t do it” was the sort of argument used by people to oppose women becoming MPs or judges too. Time that sort of thinking was shelved.

  7. “…in Judaism we don’t do it.” Yes but you do the barbaric mutilation of small boys genitals and the ritual slaughter of animals.

    1. Christopher Hobe Morrison 5 Jun 2013, 3:46pm

      I voted against this post.

      1. COmmander Thor 5 Jun 2013, 5:24pm

        Go get your d!ck mutilated then.

        1. That would be because I told the truth then.

          The Rabbi said his belief system “doesn’t do” equal marriage; but his religion is happy to encourage and continue obscene practices.

    2. GulliverUK 5 Jun 2013, 4:45pm

      And Orthodox Jews is Israel throw stones at women and her children for wearing the wrong type of head-attire ! But there is a massive blow-back against their bigotry and intolerance also. Most people in Israel aren’t religious. They have gay rights and accept gay partnerships – although they do have a weird system where even heterosexual couples who want a non-religious marriage have to leave the country and get married and then come back in and their marriage (from another country) is recognised as marriage !

  8. Christopher Hobe Morrison 5 Jun 2013, 3:38pm

    In one of the great moral debates of this day Rabbi Sachs has voted neutral. The people who shun those in their community who report child molesters to the police would probably approve his morality.

  9. Deluded Coward – like ALL so called ‘religious’ fools they hide their hatred and prejudice behind out dated, irrelevant superstitions.

  10. Robert in S. Kensington 5 Jun 2013, 6:10pm

    If Rabbi Sachs believes that by abstaining it exonerates him from being labelled a homophobic bigot, then he is very much mistaken.

    I’ve never understood having a vote to abstain from something. It’s either yes or no, no exceptions. Abstentions are nothing more than a coward’s way to say ‘no’.

    I received a direct response from Welby yesterday after I’d reminded him that disestablishment is going to be a topic of increasing interest in the next few months after this Bill passes and pass it will. He didn’t acknowledge my reference to disestablishment but thanked me for taking the ‘careful trouble’ to get in touch with him whatever that means.

    Go to the http://www.LobbyALord.org and contact him directly from the list provided. Let him know you support disestablishment.

  11. Are we supposed to praise his abstention? He’ll speak out against our rights and he will vote for indifference on whether we get our rights or not.

    yay?

    I’ll keep ducking Abrahamic religions – and quite a few outside it. They have nothing but rejection for me and mine

  12. Nice of Rabbi Sachs to confirm that he doesn’t think Reform Judaism or Liberal Judaism actually exist. Liberal Judaism in particular has been blessing same-sex unions since 2005, and has been campaigning eagerly for equal marriage. It’s a pity the media are only interested in quoting the bigots.
    http://www.liberaljudaism.org/life-cycle/marriage-civil-partnership.html

  13. I’m sure I’ve heard this guy nattering on and on in “Thought for the Day” on R4 and always trying to present an image of himself as “with it”.

    Seems he’s not at all “with it”.

    Shame on him.

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