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Religious leaders urge David Cameron to drop equal marriage bill before Lords debate

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  1. Robert (Kettering) 1 Jun 2013, 7:12pm

    It was pointless engaging with religious bigots so no Dave, tell them to get well and truly stuffed!

    The days of religious bigots telling the people what to do and now to order THEIR lives is well and truly over.

    1. This must be the first time 50 “faith” leaders have agreed on anything. They are normally too busy disagreeing with each other. At least we can be satisfied we have brought some harmony to the world.

    2. Hey . . . well not all faiths / religions / organisations are anti-same-sex marriage:

      http://www.rainbow-citizen.com/religion-and-spirituality.php

      1. Midnighter 2 Jun 2013, 11:23am

        A fair point, and yet they have their work cut out for them if they want to offset the hateful bigotry which grabs all the headlines.

        The BBC is quite happy to give Carey big headlines – it grudgingly included mention of the contrary views of the Bishop of Salisbury but the negative headline and the first 2/3 (literally, by word count) of the article are giving his views priority.

        My advice to supporters within faith groups is to take stock of your religion – look at how it is hijacked by the unloving and intolerant. Whatever the outcome of equal marriage, there are those in your community who poison it with hatred; wolves in sheep’s clothing. These are not obscure and isolated back-room figures, they are people like Carey.

        My personal tolerance for religion is at an all time low as a result of the views expressed over this debate, and I’m now inclined to oppose it on principle wherever I can.

  2. The Roll of Shame – let’s see all the names of these bigots and liars, then!

    What’s this got to do with religion anyway?

    1. You can see the list at the end of the article here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10092404/Faith-leaders-demand-gay-marriage-rethink.html

      It makes grim reading, an unholy [sic] alliance including many who’d be at each others’ throats at any other time.

      “John Beard, Buddhist” – who the hell is he to speak for Buddhists?

      1. Possibly no one… but I don’t elevate Buddhism to a place where it is exempt from criticism either. They just tend to be quieter fanatics.

        1. No-one should be exempt from criticism! But “Buddhists” [a European definition that has no direct parallel, as far as I know, in Asian languages] have fewer bases for discrimination than most other belief systems.

  3. “Marriage between a man and a woman is the fundamental building block of human society” – bunch of bigots – look at the numbers of children in institutions worldwide, unwanted and maltreated ….yea for heterosexuality as the building blocks of humanity!

  4. Midnighter 1 Jun 2013, 7:16pm

    These people simply do not realise what harm they are doing to the credibility of their religions in a modern society. Recycling the same empty arguments while prophesying a slippery slope to doom, united only by irrational hatred and bigotry.

    Any group that feels they should have special privilege to impose their views on others is by definition anti-democratic. There lies the true danger to society.

  5. The Kitty Channel 1 Jun 2013, 7:22pm

    The usual dinosaur arguments from a bygone swiveleyesation. For a start, we are not in actual fact a theocracy. Secondly, religions do not so far as I can tell command the loyalty of a majority of the population (19.9% CoE; 9.3% no denomination; 8.6% RCC; the others – negligible; 50.7% no religion). Thirdly, there is a good explanation of the SSM polling results at http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/4984 .

  6. Why on earth would Cameron stop a Bill that has gone through 3 readings and committee hearings in the Commons and got voted for by a cracking two thirds majority?

    Do these people not understand government?

    1. Midnighter 1 Jun 2013, 7:40pm

      I’m quite sure they understand it, they simply believe they know best.

      Arrogant doesn’t begin to describe them.

    2. Simply -NO

      They do not understand freedom of religion either!

      It does not give a license to impose on others (particularly by law) their doctrines and delusional insanity or to harm others by the excuse – god told me or ” I deeply and firmly believe”, “its in my holy book- its gods word” – Nah, freedom of religion means we’re not going to lock you up today for spouting crazy mad nonsense and claiming to hear voices unless you really, really annoy us and harm other people or infringe on their similar rights. No privilege granted or accepted.

      Lets not forget these loons are instrumental in excusing and often directly instigating child abuse and homophobic bullying and causing numerous young people to have such low self esteem that they kill themselves.

      - Why would most reasonable people listen to the religious crazies, bigots and hypocrites?

      Why would our Prime-minister listen to them?

  7. “Marriage between a man and a woman is the fundamental building block of human society,”

    And same sex marriage is that shiny new extension that’s been wanted for so long!

    1. shinnnny!! sweetie they have problems with the word marriage it is not gender specific in the bible eg. marriage supper of the lamb ( Jesus ) and His Church ( His Bride) which includes male and female!!

  8. Jan Bridger 1 Jun 2013, 7:40pm

    Will the same people acknowledge their roll in the high level of mental health problems, attempted and completed suicides amongst LGBT youth?

  9. The Bible is also against mixed race relationships if you read it right.

  10. Please Mr Cameron, we beg you, in the name of justice and fairness, to submit to our demands for bigotry and deny people equal rights.

  11. What chutzpah!

  12. Faith in Marriage, I hope you’re reading and responding to this. How many members of the clergy do you have supporting you now? I know there are a number of denominations from various faiths which strongly support equal marriage.

  13. The “debate” from their side always goes, “YOU can’t get married – it’s against MY religion”
    Really, how long can you stretch out that “debate”

    1. Thanks Pavlos – the best comment I’ve read on this!
      sorry – this will not allow me to give you 10 up votes

  14. If I hear another homophobe talk about the Bill being rushed through I’m gonna let off some serious steam. The Bill has gone through careful planning and won a majority vote in the Commons. This Bill is long OVERDUE and those faith leaders in question have no interest in the gay community or our welfare.

    The so-called Sikh faith leader is a charlatan. Sikhism is a religion of love and community and makes NO mention of hurting, isolating, castigating or denying gay people the right to be together. Canada agreed with this when they brought in Gay Marriage. Too many people are projecting their own homophobic opinions in the name of our religions: 

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism_and_sexual_orientation

    1. I called the Sikh chap Mohinder Singh this afternoon to find out why he is interfering in something that does not affect Sikhs. I propositioned him that there is nothing in the religion that requires him to add his objections to the Bill. His response was that he is personally against it and that should he not make a stand then they will soon want to hold ceremonies in his place of worship. I explained the Bill protected places of worship and this was not the legislation’s plan. He was idignant that they would be forced to do so once it came into action. I knew straight away I was not talking to a reasonable man, but rather somebody driven by fear. This is what these people are really protecting. I encourage everybody to make some calls if possible. It would be good to challenge these people in the safety of their pulpits to be answerable to their stand.

      1. Midnighter 2 Jun 2013, 3:30pm

        Very well done Alex. Even if there is a tiny chance he might reflect on your conversation and change his mind, it was worth the effort.

  15. Aren’t they desperate? They know is inevitable.

  16. i dont know why they are sending a letter…when they are exempted..bigotted views in action. it no longer concerns them i dont think…

  17. This letter is such a lot of complete rubbish I don’t know where to begin …

    The governement has been consulting endlessly over several years with all the religious groups, lead by the Church of England. Sadly there is no room for debate – the traditional religionists wouldn’t touch gays with a holy barge pole.

    The Bill is basically a one liner but the Government allowed the C of E lawyers to write in all the “protections” they wanted, & the C of E have stated that they are satisfied that these will be effective.

    The govt have bent over backwards to accommodate and involve the religious lot but these folk don’t know the meaning of compromise – in the end their views are irreconcilable with the modern undertsanding of the world & the govt had no choice (if it was not going to give in to their moral blackmail) but to proceed.

    We may expect next week to see 26 unelected Bishops, plus a few retired ones, troop into the Lords and vote against our riights. Apparently its democracy

  18. What has religion got to do with legally binding marriage contracts? Lgbt people must be the catalyst to bring religious loons together who would normally be at each others throats desperately recruiting.

  19. I bet these bullies said the same thing when women were give equal rights, then repeated the same line when homosexuality was decriminalised, then again when gay couples were given CPs and adoptions rights and so on…

    Funny the world never came to end when these things happenned and in fact in my opinion society, family life and human rights are far better now than they ever have been and once we get equal marriage then I suspect society will be a much richer place knowing that LGBT people have equal rights and no-one else’s rights have been affected one bit!

    1. And I bet they will be saying the same things in the far future when we grant robots and extraterrestrials equal rights and different-species marriage.

  20. Haste? What haste? They’re still faffing about after three whole years !

    This must surely be the slowest and most consulted-upon legislation ever.

    IIRC France achieved equal marriage within a year, and Minnesota did it in six months.

  21. Haha. They’re sending letters like the consultation is still going? :D

  22. The united ugly face of religion, once more, in plain sight. You might be untouchables for now, but it will not be so for ever. One day you all will have to pay for your crimes against HUMANITY. At least for those who still could have any doubt, the face of our enemy is there for all to see :-)

  23. Christopher in Canada 1 Jun 2013, 9:30pm

    Ridiculous!! It could be translated that Britain, if equal marriage does not pass, will transcend to heaven, while Canada will somehow be severed from the rest of North America and go down in flames…

    These religious leaders are dumb. In fact, why any theology degree is recognized by any university this day in age baffles me.

    1. Helge Vladimir Tiller 2 Jun 2013, 9:31am

      GOOD COMMENT from Canada !

    2. Christopher Coleman 2 Jun 2013, 5:29pm

      Theology degrees will continue to be awarded as long as there are people willing to pay good money for years of instruction to universities that are keen to keep their income levels as high as possible.

  24. The concept of marriage pre-dates all these religion so they have no right to own it or define it.

  25. I well remember Iqbal Sacrranie telling Eddie Mair on the BBC PM programme that “gay people spread disease”.

    Now-where have I heard that kind of argument before? I reckon that guy from the Boards of `deputies of the British Jews better think long and hard…………….

    1. sacrannie and ilk are an infection of hate.

    2. That argument against gay marriage always strikes me as stupid but on a different level. They’re against gay monogamous marriage because it’s implied that gay people spread STDs.
      Even if we accepted the bigoted premise that STDs are exclusive to gay people which they’re not, doesn’t committing to one person for the rest of your life REDUCE the likelihood of sleeping around with multiple partners, at least in theory?
      Suggesting we should be prevented from making a monogamous commitment because of STDs is like putting out a fire with gasoline.

  26. The people who are here to make our laws are the democratically elected representatives of the public, not a bunch of taxpayer-funded bigots with waning support who want to impose their views on everyone else

  27. Someone forgot United Kingdom is not a theocracy, of neither belief system. If you’ll be only comfortable living on one then what the hell are you doing in the United Kingdom ?

  28. GulliverUK 1 Jun 2013, 11:15pm

    They don`t speak for anyone except themselves and a few extremist members of their group. Most people, religious or not, agree with equal rights, a fair chance. Even many if not most of the clergy including many bishops are in favour. Do these 50 really expect him to take any notice of them?

  29. Hopefully there will be a response from pro marriage religious groups , quakers, Unitarians, liberal jews, wiccans etc , not that I value religion but it may have an impact.

  30. Rushed through? They got passed by Uruguay, New Zealand, France and a couple of US states in the process.
    These people are embarrassing.

  31. Well I see that Cardinal Keith O’Brien hasn’t signed the letter, so it doesn’t have the backing of Britain’s most senior Roman Catholic.

    1. casparthe good 2 Jun 2013, 8:46am

      I’m sure he has his hands full elsewhere just now :-)

  32. Εκηβόλος 2 Jun 2013, 1:27am

    If there is God it’s sure that has not any relation with these religious terrorists , racists and misanthropes …they are not the representatives of any god .
    During centuries these religious swindlers and bigots killed millions of innocent persons for an illusion and ofcourse for the power and the money ! They are the real danger for the human dignity and human rights , for the scientific truth and progress , for the progress of the humanity .
    PUT THEM ALL in prisons NOW !

  33. Instead of banding together to oppose gay marriange, perhaps they should band together to apologise to gay people for the misery they have caused us over last few thousand years and retract the lies and misinformation they have disseminated about us.

    1. Eκηβόλος 2 Jun 2013, 2:30am

      The religious BIGOTS {like these charlatans} never apologise to their victims ! Don’t wait in vain…
      Greetings from Greece.

  34. It says everything we need to know about their pointlessness that the only time they can ever take time out from slaughtering one another is when they’re hating on us.

  35. “Fifty British faith leaders have come together to sign a letter”

    Although whether or not they were smart enough to read it is open to conjecture:)

  36. I am a Buddhist and had never heard of John Beard to call him a leader of the Buddhist faith is at best erroneous. I am emailing the Birmingham Buddhist Vihara. To formally complain. they do not speak for the vast majority of Buddhists that I know and this guy is not even a monk!

    And I will have one simple question. Who the hell does he think he is. at best he speaks for a very small number of Buddhists in the Birmingham area and even then he is a Trustee not the as far as I could see on their site their spokesperson.

  37. I think these people really over estimate the number of people they are speaking for.

  38. David stick to your guns, show everyone what you are nade of. Please do not waiver in anyway. You are doing what you are doing for the good of the people of Brtian and world. The world is watching. Be a real leader and stay with Equal Marriage. Leave the hate mongers to do their hating.

  39. Helge Vladimir Tiller 2 Jun 2013, 8:36am

    I wish all the religious supporters we do have in UK could make a list totally crushing these fanatics,both when it comes to contents and number of protesters. Take action !

  40. None of these religions speak for me, please David Cameron acknowledge these differing leaders only wish to prolong divisiveness.

    Has the list of these leaders been published – online?

  41. keith francis farrell 2 Jun 2013, 10:47am

    I am not sick, I dont need a cure. I am a person and I pay tax, follow the law, and expect the same equal rights that straights enjoy

    1. very well put!

  42. Jock S. Trap 2 Jun 2013, 11:18am

    Clearly Religious Freedom only extends to those opposed to better marriage equality not those religions supportive.

    This is shameful as it not only openly discriminates against Gay people but also our families and children…those of us that have them.

    What right have these bigots got to downgrade my family, my child because their tiny little narrow minds cannot accept anything other than pure bigotry.

    The whole argument by the opposed during this debate has been appalling. Not once have they considered who they are talking about and who is listening.

    Their hate is truly up for show and will remain so in history along with their support for the downgrade of womens rights and black rights and support for slavery.

    Religion eh? Who needs the hate!

    1. Well said, Jock. I don’t know if these people are purposely malicious in what they say or if they’re just too stupid to think of the effect it might have on those LGBT people listening – particularly those who are younger or unsure of themselves.

      And, of course, “religious freedom” only appliies to THEIR particular religion. They must have a very inflated opinion of themselves – their religion deserves special treatment (ie special rights to discriminate), and they themselves are special and so marriage is only for them. Even civil marriage that has NOTHINg to do with any religion whatsoever.

  43. these Lords who will deside our future and equality with heteros is dependent on liars and fraudsters – men who will sell democracy for a fee – how dare they also decide the fate of gay marriage!

    these criminals have a vote –
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22742327

  44. Beelzeebub 2 Jun 2013, 5:40pm

    One would have thought that the only “religious” “LEADER” in christianity was JC himself.

    Just who do these self appointed pious men think they are.

    JC mentioned nothing of hierarchies within his church.

    The same holds true for the other “religions” and whichever deity they bow down to.

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