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Scotland: Trans woman threatened with ban from shopping centre for using ladies’ toilets

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  1. I hope you have the determination to sue AND to bring a discrimination case under the equality act for this disgraceful behaviour by shopping centre staff and infringement of a very basic right.
    You DO NOT have to have had gender reasignment to use the appropriate toilets to your gender identity/ presentation.
    Does anyone know the e-mail and telephone number of the Shopping Centre manager – they need to issue a groveling public apology and deal with their out of control security staff ASAP.

    1. The details are publicly available on the shopping centre’s website: http://www.paisleycentre.co.uk/contact-us.aspx

  2. thelostdot 17 May 2013, 6:17pm

    Confirms what I have said for a long time – the rights are not worth the paper they are printed on. It’s Neville Chamberlain and his piece of paper all over again. I don’t know why right winger have so little respect for the law when they disagree with it. Call the Police? This has now really gone beyond being a civil case and is a criminal case because she is being prevented from going about her daily business. She should insist on reporting the crime properly as a CRIME.

  3. alan.day@cbrems.com

    Email address for the Paisley center manager.

  4. Paisley Centre website:

    http://www.paisleycentre.co.uk/company-information.aspx
    ” Welcome to the Paisley Centre, your local down town shopping centre that really ‘feels good inside’!
    We have some great places to meet up, eat and of course shop inside our cosy centre. Our friendly staff are on hand to help you find what you want, whenever you want it. Rest assured nothing is too much trouble! “

    Its ironic that they claim that “The centre was upgraded in 2006 with the installation of new toilet facilities…..”

    Yes, As reported what Hannah suffered is a crime and should be reported with the help of the Scottish Transgender Alliance. There is another issue here as well as she was threatened to be banned from access to the shopping centre on the grounds of gender identity and expression which is a separate offence. Provision and access to goods and services discrimination.

  5. This is outrageous! Notwithstanding that Paisley Centre is a dump, this is getting all to common these days. She should have called the police.

  6. here is a little suggestion : a blanket full boycott of all businesses in that shopping centre for a full month by all LGBT communities living nearby. Regardless of an upcoming apology by the management of this centre or not. We should use the pink pound as a deterrent more often. Done properly and well targeted, it’d have an impact, at least as a deterrent from future attacks on our community.

  7. Common sense 17 May 2013, 10:28pm

    Why does it not surprise me this is Paisley, the very heartland of working class Catholic bigotry?

  8. I have actually emailed the centre and day managers, as I’m a trans student studying in paisley, i’m in the paisley centre all the time. If they refuse me use of the facilities i WILL take them to court.

  9. I’ve e-mailed them, this is disgusting as well as illegal.

  10. The toilet police strike again…

  11. Keith,/,.. 18 May 2013, 8:53am

    Good that the security was on the ball. There could have been children in there.
    Just because you have the officially classed mental disease Gender Dysphoria does not entitle
    you to uactully use opposite sex facilities such as changing rooms or toilets, especially
    where there are children.
    Lycanthropics have a mental disease where they actually think they are wild beasts. Such illnesses
    should betreated with psychiatry, not accommodation.

    1. I’ll quote Dr Blanchard, chair of the paraphillias subgroup for the DSM-5 on the subject.

      ” Do you think that classifying transgender people as having a disorder does contribute to stigma against the trans community?

      No. I mean how many people who make a joke about trannies consult the DSM first?”

      So people like you don’t exist according to the experts you quote. Therefore what you might say can (by your own logic) be safely discarded.

    2. Carol Uren 20 May 2013, 1:30am

      Keith said: ………. “There could have been children in there.”
      And just how many trans people have been prosecuted for paedophilia??? Or did you mean that it is infectious, especially for children??
      It is well documented (do a Google search) that children are not affected in any way by seeing transgender people going about their normal, everyday lives. It is only when their parents teach there children their own prejudices that problems start to arise.

    3. essexgirlbecky 24 May 2013, 11:03am

      As Kierkegaard had it:

      “People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.”

      My thanks to Keith for so ably proving him right (again)!

  12. I hope they sack the security staff involved and also the manager (for dereliction of duties by not being available). I also hope that this shameful incident is recorded on their employment records and future references to make it as difficult as possible for them to ever get a job ever again. If this seems a bit harsh, it’s as well to remember that getting a job as an openly trans person even with top qualifications and a squeaky clean employment record is always ten times more difficult.

  13. Plus, the security guard advising a trans woman to use the men’s toilets was not only outrageously insulting, but also a very dangerous suggestion indeed! Unfortunately, a woman using a men’s toilet stands a high chance of being violently attacked and sexually assaulted – and if she happens to be trans statistics consistently show that this risk is multiplied with the likelihood of transphobia thrown in. They need, at the very least, to sack this security guard now – by attempting to put a customer in such a dangerous situation – he’s obviously failing to do the job that he was hired to do (i.e. serve and protect the interests of shopping centre customers and retailers). This is outrageous!

  14. I’d love to say to the guard “well ok then, if you won’t let me in I’ll just do my business here”. Honestly this world is so messed up. Haters everywhere. That guard needs to grow up, oh and be fired too. What an asshole.

  15. Keith,/,... 18 May 2013, 2:01pm

    The gay deviant brigade are basically saying that any bloke can put a dress on and go in the womens toilets (and vica versa) unchallenged. The gay deviants are seeking to make it easier for the perverts to access opposite sex children in toilets by claiming to be a tranny.
    Gay deviant behaviour has always revolved around public toilets but this is a new low.
    By the way gender Dysphoria is officially recognized as a mental disease. It’s ‘sufferers’ should be treated as mentally sick as are all other mental cases. There are no physical symptons for gender dysphoria. It is similar but more socially dangerous than lycanthrope which is also recognized as a mental sickness.
    It oesn’t help the gender dysphoric that a minority (mostly gays) play along with their illusions and pretend there is no mental condition tha causes a man to want to be a woman, even though he has a mans body, sex organs and brain and is physically a man.

    1. Christine Beckett 18 May 2013, 2:17pm

      Wow. What an insight, “Keith”.

      Please provide us details of your level of medical and/or psychiatric expertise.

      1. Keith,/,.. 18 May 2013, 2:54pm

        Check any credible source such as the WHO or BMI. Gender dysphoria is listed officially classed a a mental illness or are you suggesting it is not a mental illness, against all expert opinion?

        1. nixiotemba 18 May 2013, 3:17pm

          no it’s not, and like the former classifiction of homosexuality, it will be dropped eventually
          I happen to be such ann ‘ill’ person, and can tell you I am not crazy (but I’d like to cut your troath)

          1. Keith,/,.. 18 May 2013, 3:34pm

            You are either ignorant or in denial. All credible and resoected source such as the WHO and BMI officially class gender dysphoria as a mental condition. Your threatening abucive reply validates that position and indeed shows that it’s sufferers are a danger to society and need psychiatric help.
            I repeat, there are no physical symptons with gender dysphoria. Illnesses are either mental or physical. Get some psych help you nasty freak!

  16. Question: how did the security guard know whether Ms Leith was pre-operative or not (as if that actually matters)?
    As far as I know, you don’t get given a little card after surgery saying, “This woman has no penis”….

    1. Leigh Hamilton 18 May 2013, 3:48pm

      They didn’t, of course; they just wanted to enforce their bigotry instead of the law. Hope they get the book thrown at them, several times, on the head.

      1. Keith,/,,, 18 May 2013, 4:16pm

        So you are suggesting that anyone of any sex wearing a dress or skirt be allowed access to female toilets?
        Would this not be a licence to male pervs to dress as women and enter toilets?
        It appears female and child safety is no high on your list, certainly not as high as the perceived right to use the women’s toilets if you think of yourself as a woman in the head, even though you are a male.physically.

        1. I’m not sure that predatory rapists are particularly put off by dress codes, Keith.

          I don’t mean to shock you, but abusive men aren’t particularly respectful of women-and-children-only space, whatever they’re wearing. Trans* women are, of course, not men.

          1. Keith,/,... 18 May 2013, 8:08pm

            I said pervs, not rapists. Please do not misquote.
            So you would let anyone with a skirt into a female toilet, is that what you are saying?

    2. Keith,/,,, 18 May 2013, 4:10pm

      As far as the guard would know, it could have been a perv trying to get into the ladies, possibly even a paedo. The deviants won’t let minor details such as security of women and children get in the way of their bigotry and hatred toward the heteronormal@ community.

      1. Christine Beckett 18 May 2013, 8:21pm

        My gosh…. And you thought that out all by yourself, “Keith”?

        You really do have a First Class mind.

        Have you ever considered a job as, say, a Mall security guard?

        1. Trannysaurass 18 May 2013, 10:30pm

          Have you considered addressing the issues I raised or does the welfare of innocent females and children not concern you?

          1. What about little boys getting fondled and fellated in the male toilets by male perverts dressed as males? Pervs can get into places, pervs can even be female.

            My gosh do you realise that gays and black men can follow you into the toilet!?

            Not that it matters, because being a transwomen does not mean being a perv, a paedophile or a rapist. I’m sure you would find if you cared at all about your credibility, that sexual violence is not perpetrated by the transgendered population at rate higher than the general population.

            I think you would find actually that the transgendered population is actually at a higher risk of sexual (and general) violence. And here you are telling a woman to use the mens toilet, which as we’ve discerned from your discourse is full of perverted male rapists.

  17. Just out of curiosity do you know that the transgendered do recieve psychiatric help? Do you realise that the very same organisations you list that refer to the condition as a mental illness are also the ones who treat it by allowing the transgendered to live in their target gender, and authorise their bodies to be rectified to suit their gender identity?

    You keep saying the transgendered need psychiatric help, what did you have in mind? Gay cures or other such inhuman tortures? Guess what! Transitioning and living in ones target gender IS the cure, your own sources say this.

    Why mention black men? Because your bigotry is as base and unfounded as rascism. You wouldnt want blacks around your women would you? Savage violent animals with no human souls? Also guess what! GAY MEN dont want to go into womans toilets, you do know what being gay means right? it means men who like -men-, not women, not children.

  18. DSM-5, which is due for publication in a few days, will largely do away with the pathologization of trans people. It’s (largely) no longer a mental disorder. The next ICD undergoes similar progress. So yeah, don’t base your ignorance upon a misunderstanding of “the international medical community”. This community actually agrees it’s not a mental disorder.

    1. Carol Uren 20 May 2013, 1:58am

      Now you really are showing your ignorance of the subject. If you are trans, generally you have felt this way since your earliest recollected memories. Yes, many have fought and struggled (and indeed died) because of how they feel themselves to be and, as a result have not transitioned until later on in life.
      To suggest you only become transgender following surgery is absolute poppycock and shows you have not studied the subject in any way whatsoever.

  19. You went about it correctly in researching your rights and trying to confront the staff in a calm manner but please becareful as I suffered an appalling beating at the hands of shopping center security staff after suffering a shocking homophobic outburst from a guard who i think took exception to a slight effeminate ‘poof’ who at 42 refused to be intimidated& tried to explain the role of providing a safe secure enviroment in which I&my chosen grocer can trade thus enabling him to pay a ground rent to the people who then paid the guard a wage to help the process in which it is to be hoped we all benefit, it is my young friend commerce a process on which our very free market society is built on, trying to intimidate me because you dont like fairy faggots is undermining the whole thing,I felt rather like my Dad.
    The beating I got however was frightening&no joke,stay safe&shop elsewhere letting ur regular shops know why,they want ur cash&r likely to influence more

  20. Jane Attwood 20 May 2013, 12:27pm

    This is a hate crime and should have been reported to the police on the spot. In Norfolk anyone in the LGBT community can dial 101 and an officer will attend in minutes, we are very lucky to have a fully supportive constabulary and council.

  21. postopgirl 13 Jun 2013, 7:18pm

    OMG!, So this kind of stuff is still happening, I thought equality law had stopped this kind of discrimination, I know what this girl is feeling like as it happened to me many years ago, as I was actually banned from a stores female toilets as security did same and store manager said I had to either use disabled or male toilets, arguing with him was pointless as he just wouldn’t listen, his treatment of me still haunts me today as the staff of same store still treat me like I am the dirt on their shoes, sue the b***** girl you are stronger than I and have 2 very important organisations behind you

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